2018 Nontrad Applicants' Progress Thread

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MercMutt said:
These are all great recommendations for medical field books - thanks!
I've read a lot of them, but you all have given me a few more to add to my reading list.

I have to include "The Emperor of All Maladies" by Siddhartha Mukherjee to the medicine genre group - a very well written and fascinating history of cancer.

I'd also like to give "Being Mortal" an extra push - everyone (medical or not) should read this book. It helped me throughout my father's final year and eventual death and is a pivotal factor in my decision to pursue geriatrics and/or hospice/palliative care medicine.

But to be honest, I need an escape book during this highly stressful game of waiting - so I'm currently listening to Stephen King's "It". Only problem is that every time I walk into one of the rooms I recently painted (while listening to "It"), I feel a little spooked. LOL
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@MercMutt...I agree wholeheartedly about Being Mortal. It is a must-read. Given your experience with your father and your choice of specialty, read Final Gifts. I think you will find it especially enlightening. I had a similar experience that informed my choices too and this book provided insight and perspective.

After It, try The Langoliers (also by King). The Stand is also good. Both were made for TV years ago, so clearly a different kind of scary.
 
DSM_302.0 said:
Not sure about the audio versions of these, but medicine-related books I've loved recently (these are probably obvious in these forums but I'll throw them out here anyway?):
* Being Mortal by Atul Gawende
* When Breath Becomes Air by Paul K
* Cutting for Stone by Abraham Verghese
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I started Hot Lights, Cold Steel. Loved the black-fingers-smoking story, for anyone who's read it. Some of the posters on the various no-interview threads could use that lesson in patient care. 🙂
 
@Hazel-rah said:
Yay! Congrats! I just got my third rejection.
Today is a big D-day!
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Me too! With no IIs, this feels like the beginning of the end, but there's an element of relief, too. The limbo is just. not. pleasant.
 
physgal said:
From what I can tell, its not an oversight. My thought is that they have done a rereview of our applications and pulled interviews from that. I definitely have mixed feelings about it. I am sitting on two acceptances already and interviewed for the second year in a row at my state school. The chance of me choosing this school over my other acceptances is slim. Ironically, I had posted on that school's application thread last year with my stats to see if it was worth applying. Several traditional applicants indicated to me it was a waste of my money even to apply. That I would "never get an interview there with my MCAT." This is my sixth interview with a 502 MCAT this cycle. I am still under review at 10 schools.
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You're my inspiration. What did you do to make yourself stand out in the face of adversity?
 
jazzmetal said:
I started Hot Lights, Cold Steel. Loved the black-fingers-smoking story, for anyone who's read it. Some of the posters on the various no-interview threads could use that lesson in patient care. 🙂
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Momentary vent: I take SDN with a grain of salt, but I find myself shaking my head at some of the things said by various posters. I remind myself that most of them probably haven't had real life experience or true loss yet and that their frontal lobes aren't done maturing...(and that 20 years ago I probably said similar things because I lacked perspective) but man, sometimes I really want to scream. But for all the immaturity, arrogance and conjecture that is out there, there are groups like these that buoy my spirits and remind me that I'm not the only salmon swimming this stream. Thank god for the nontrads.
 
Laterthansooner said:
Momentary vent: I take SDN with a grain of salt, but I find myself shaking my head at some of the things said by various posters. I remind myself that most of them probably haven't had real life experience or true loss yet and that their frontal lobes aren't done maturing...(and that 20 years ago I probably said similar things because I lacked perspective) but man, sometimes I really want to scream. But for all the immaturity, arrogance and conjecture that is out there, there are groups like these that buoy my spirits and remind me that I'm not the only salmon swimming this stream. Thank god for the nontrads.
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Yes, I agree with all of this - especially the part about saying similar things 20 years ago. Maybe I'm just criticizing the things I don't like about myself (or my younger self). I think what sets me off the most is seeing the bad 'tudes from certain adcoms. Grown men bashing the little premed ducklings! lol. Seriously though, why spend so much time here if you have that much disdain for us?
Ok, rant complete. 🙂
I am sooo grateful for the nontrad threads! And for the solidarity that some of the other threads are bringing out. I'm finding SDN love super helpful right now. Thanks y'all!
 
Laterthansooner said:
@MercMutt...I agree wholeheartedly about Being Mortal. It is a must-read. Given your experience with your father and your choice of specialty, read Final Gifts. I think you will find it especially enlightening. I had a similar experience that informed my choices too and this book provided insight and perspective.

After It, try The Langoliers (also by King). The Stand is also good. Both were made for TV years ago, so clearly a different kind of scary.
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I actually have Final Gifts in my bedside stack of books to read. Thanks to you, I pulled it out and began reading it last night. Really good so far.

And thank you for the Stephen King recommendations. I’ll add them to my pile. 🙂
 
Well, happy Monday everyone. Let's pretend it's Sunday and go back to bed, shall we? Interview travel already won all today's energy.

IMG_5823.JPG
 
Laterthansooner said:
Momentary vent: I take SDN with a grain of salt, but I find myself shaking my head at some of the things said by various posters. I remind myself that most of them probably haven't had real life experience or true loss yet and that their frontal lobes aren't done maturing...(and that 20 years ago I probably said similar things because I lacked perspective) but man, sometimes I really want to scream. But for all the immaturity, arrogance and conjecture that is out there, there are groups like these that buoy my spirits and remind me that I'm not the only salmon swimming this stream. Thank god for the nontrads.
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I completely understand where you're coming from. I first felt this way when I returned to school for my DIY post-bac. As I am much older, I found the students in my courses hard to take some times - I just wanted to shake them and say, "Grow up! Life can be so much more challenging than this!". But, as you already said, I was likely just as naive at that age.

I have to wonder if it's going to be the same in medical school. If so, I'm preparing myself to be as tolerant as possible. And I wholeheartedly agree - this forum is a welcome reprieve from the stress and crazy in the other forums.
 
MercMutt said:
I completely understand where you're coming from. I first felt this way when I returned to school for my DIY post-bac. As I am much older, I found the students in my courses hard to take some times - I just wanted to shake them and say, "Grow up! Life can be so much more challenging than this!". But, as you already said, I was likely just as naive at that age.

I have to wonder if it's going to be the same in medical school. If so, I'm preparing myself to be as tolerant as possible. And I wholeheartedly agree - this forum is a welcome reprieve from the stress and crazy in the other forums.
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It's funny, I found most of my postbac classmates to be super cool but that could be because we are all some years out of school. Yes, I'm definitely one of the oldest (but not *the* oldest - why am I never at the top! lol), but I've made some really good friends there, all of whom are many years younger than I. Where I did notice a big difference was in my MCAT prep course, with mostly students just out of college and several still in college. They were super shy! Whereas I have no shame left - perfectly willing to look foolish by asking dumb questions.
 
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I noticed a difference in my post-bacc as well. The young students were more accepting and supportive than I expected (more "whoa, that's cool" than "uh, you're old and weird") but I did see a difference in perspective. When they were complaining about having to study for exams, I was basically giddy about it. Spending a decade changing diapers (or whatever) will do that to you. 😉
 
jazzmetal said:
+1
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+2. I found that my younger classmates always wanted to hear stories from my old job and old life. They usually came to me for life advice. The biggest difference I noticed too was our approach to classwork and ECs. I understood what I needed to get done to accomplish my goal, but I had to listen to a lot of, "ugggh this class isn't fair!" or "do I really have to shadow?" from my younger counterparts.
 
jazzmetal said:
That was definitely one of the funnier convos I overheard. "Like, I'm just too busy to volunteer!" This was topped off with, "Do you think med schools would be impressed if I were applying for an MBA too? I'm a really good day trader."
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"Dean, cancel your board meeting and come look at this - we got ourselves a finance guy here!!"
 
DBC03 said:
Great suggestions! Have any of your read Stiff (also by Mary Roach)? One of my interviewers asked me which book I had read lately and I almost brought it up, but then thought better of it and talked about Malcom Gladwell’s books. I’ll have to check out Gulp now. I’m currently listening to Ender’s Game. It’s ok, but not really my genre. I have a few that are slowly coming off “hold” From our library. We have a very limited selection of books, so it’s difficult to find some. I have read The Immortal LIfe of Henrietta Lacks (very good) and When Breath Becomes Air. I find actual reading VERY difficult, so I haven’t read a real book since college.


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Another great suggestion is Gifted Hands by Dr. Ben Carson!
 
So I got waitlisted at one of my favorites. I’m just hoping I didn’t bomb the interview as it was my first MMI. On the other hand, they do reject post interview, so I’m glad I’m still in the running, but this is going to be along season. And I have a slight (okay, huge) regional bias, and it was one of the few in the region. I’m hoping they might accept me off the wait list, so I’ll be sending those letters of interest in. OTOH, I’m grateful for my current acceptance - but still paranoid about my interview skills.


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First off, I'll add to the chorus recommending Being Mortal. Also other books (Checklist Manifesto, Better) by Atul Gawande and his articles for the New Yorker (check out his 2009 article on cost of care in McAllen, TX that supposedly made a big impact on Obama & the ACA). Really enjoy his perspective. I also enjoyed reading stories from Rachel Naomi Remen... though her reflections on life and medicine might be a bit too existential for some folks. If you want to explore another area, say economics, I've been reading books by Ha-Joon Chang which are great big picture books explaining various threads of thought and policy in the field.

In other news... I was accepted to my local school which would be a great fit for my partner and I and would not involve moving!!!! Such a relief to have one acceptance and to a school I'd be happy to attend. I've got a few more interviews scheduled (thankfully to places I have friends/family to visit as well!) and otherwise still no rejections or any word from all the other schools.
 
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DBC03 said:
So I got waitlisted at one of my favorites. I’m just hoping I didn’t bomb the interview as it was my first MMI. On the other hand, they do reject post interview, so I’m glad I’m still in the running, but this is going to be along season. And I have a slight (okay, huge) regional bias, and it was one of the few in the region. I’m hoping they might accept me off the wait list, so I’ll be sending those letters of interest in. OTOH, I’m grateful for my current acceptance - but still paranoid about my interview skills.


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I think we can put this in the plus column - yay! I'm sure your interview was fine. And now you get to practice your letter-of-intent skills? 🙂
 
littlesallywalker said:
In other news... I was accepted to my local school which would be a great fit for my partner and I and would not involve moving!!!! Such a relief to have one acceptance and to a school I'd be happy to attend. I've got a few more interviews scheduled (thankfully to places I have friends/family to visit as well!) and otherwise still no rejections or any word from all the other schools.
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Congrats!! So exciting. Do you ever stop and think how few people get into any medical school at all? It's such a huge accomplishment- go celebrate!
 
Super excited, I was accepted to my first choice school a couple of weeks ago. After years of putting it off, I finally buckled down and started studying for the MCAT. I did decent enough and was happy with my score for not taking the courses in 10+ years. Ended up applying and after a couple of rejections, finally got an interview and accepted!
 
SpartanDOnoharm said:
Super excited, I was accepted to my first choice school a couple of weeks ago. After years of putting it off, I finally buckled down and started studying for the MCAT. I did decent enough and was happy with my score for not taking the courses in 10+ years. Ended up applying and after a couple of rejections, finally got an interview and accepted!
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Congratulations!!!
 
For those of you fellow non-trads that have interviewed already - was most of your interview focused on your "life experiences" and differences from a standard premed student? Or do you think it was similar to the interviews of the fresh-out-of-college applicants?

I have my first interview in a couple weeks, and I'm just wondering what my experience might be like. I am a very non-traditional applicant, with years of life events & challenges that might pique their interest - or it could be a lot of current healthcare issues and medical ethics scenarios. Just wondering.

(I know you can't discuss specifics about your interview - generalizations are fine)
 
MercMutt said:
For those of you fellow non-trads that have interviewed already - was most of your interview focused on your "life experiences" and differences from a standard premed student? Or do you think it was similar to the interviews of the fresh-out-of-college applicants?

I have my first interview in a couple weeks, and I'm just wondering what my experience might be like. I am a very non-traditional applicant, with years of life events & challenges that might pique their interest - or it could be a lot of current healthcare issues and medical ethics scenarios. Just wondering.

(I know you can't discuss specifics about your interview - generalizations are fine)
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I think it entirely depends on how yor interviewer's style is. I am sure there are some interviewers out there that disregard pre-determined questions and just the let the conversation flow, while others will ask each question on their packet one by one. Best bet would be to ask people who have already interviewed and/or check the sdn interview feedback page to see what people have been asked in the past.

Personally mine have all been open conversations, and in this case it's easy to steer the conversation towards your non-trad experiences. Most interviewers open with the inevitable 'tell me about yourself' so if you touch on points that you want them to focus on (e.g. I'm x years of out school and am married/have kids and have worked y and z jobs etc) it's pretty easy to steer the conversation as you want, usually the interviewer will latch on and probe you with questions on these things you bring up for the next set of questions.
 
Not on here very often anymore but wanted to chime in and wish all you non-trads the best of luck. I'm currently PGY-5 and in my last year of residency. Seems like an eternity ago that I applied to medical school but I still consider getting accepted into medical school one of my proudest accomplishments given all the obstacles. I'll be rooting for you!
 
I had an MMI that was closed file, and then an open file interview. My open file was very conversational and just basically getting to know me as a person.
 
I’ve had four interview days so far and they have all been SO different. It really depends on the school and exactly who interviews you at the school. MMI is probably a little more consistent, but the traditional interviews are so very different!


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I've had two mmi and one with two-20min openfile interviews.
The MMI make no alteration to the questions.
Of the two open file, one of the interviewers had not prepared much and asked me the standard list of questions, realizing often mid-sentence that the question was inappropriate. The other interviewer had read my file and wanted to hear about my Peace Corps and healthcare experience and had prepared specific questions.
 
MercMutt said:
For those of you fellow non-trads that have interviewed already - was most of your interview focused on your "life experiences" and differences from a standard premed student? Or do you think it was similar to the interviews of the fresh-out-of-college applicants?

I have my first interview in a couple weeks, and I'm just wondering what my experience might be like. I am a very non-traditional applicant, with years of life events & challenges that might pique their interest - or it could be a lot of current healthcare issues and medical ethics scenarios. Just wondering.

(I know you can't discuss specifics about your interview - generalizations are fine)
Click to expand...

My DO interviews were focused on "life experiences." My MD interview was more traditional.
 
MercMutt said:
For those of you fellow non-trads that have interviewed already - was most of your interview focused on your "life experiences" and differences from a standard premed student? Or do you think it was similar to the interviews of the fresh-out-of-college applicants?

I have my first interview in a couple weeks, and I'm just wondering what my experience might be like. I am a very non-traditional applicant, with years of life events & challenges that might pique their interest - or it could be a lot of current healthcare issues and medical ethics scenarios. Just wondering.

(I know you can't discuss specifics about your interview - generalizations are fine)
Click to expand...

I am also an almost-ultra non-trad. I agree that where you interview probably plays into how the interview itself goes, but I found that it also varies by person. My interviewers asked me several standard questions (including an ethical question) but the bulk were based on my unique personal experiences and unusual background. One even asked me how I would handle other students who viewed me in a parental capacity. They were very welcoming and encouraging but I was aware that I was still jumping through the same hoops that my younger peers were.

My overall interview experience was a good one and most people (interviewers, admissions and other staff) seemed pleased to see that I wasn’t the stereotypical applicant. I did, however, feel a bit of a cold breeze from one faculty member. I sensed that the person wasn’t a fan of older applicants so I just let it go and recognized that there would likely be several more who saw my age as an asset.

My advice would be to just make sure you know/practice your answers to the basic questions. I literally sat in front of the hotel mirror the night before and practiced asking and answering potential questions. I didn’t memorize or recite answers verbatim, but rather made myself feel comfortable answering questions in a short period of time. It also helped me make sure I got to the most important things I wanted to say. You have to make sure you answer the questions asked, but you will almost certainly have some opportunity to highlight why your age will be an asset instead of a hindrance in school. It’s a delicate balance of being prepared enough to seem confident in your time-limited responses but spontaneous enough to answer each question organically. Good luck. You’re gonna be great.
 
Laterthansooner said:
One even asked me how I would handle other students who viewed me in a parental capacity.
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I had this question as well! I said, "Well in my post bacc program I was 'the mom,' so it really wouldn't be much different. I make sure everyone is playing nice with each other, mediate fights, plan stress-releasing social events, and have talked my younger peers through break-ups, evictions, quarter life crises, and more." The interviewer laughed.
 
Great feedback! Thank you to everyone who has responded so far. i'm feeling more confident thanks to your posts 🙂
 
Just read a quote that I find inspiring in our current setting. Thought I'd share.

It's from The War of Art: Break Through the Blocks and Win Your Inner Creative Battles, by Steven Pressfield - a book I'm reading to help with my blank-canvas block (a painter's version of writer's block).

"Self doubt can be an ally. This is because it serves as an indicator of aspiration. It reflects love - love of something we dream of doing - and desire - desire to do it. If you find yourself asking yourself (and your friends): 'Am I really a writer?', 'Am I really an artist?', chances are you are. The counterfeit innovator is wildly self-confident. The real one is scared to death."

I know it's written about art & writing, but I'm going to apply it to my medical aspirations as well...gawd knows I'm having plenty of self doubt of late.
 
MercMutt said:
Just read a quote that I find inspiring in our current setting. Thought I'd share.

It's from The War of Art: Break Through the Blocks and Win Your Inner Creative Battles, by Steven Pressfield - a book I'm reading to help with my blank-canvas block (a painter's version of writer's block).

"Self doubt can be an ally. This is because it serves as an indicator of aspiration. It reflects love - love of something we dream of doing - and desire - desire to do it. If you find yourself asking yourself (and your friends): 'Am I really a writer?', 'Am I really an artist?', chances are you are. The counterfeit innovator is wildly self-confident. The real one is scared to death."

I know it's written about art & writing, but I'm going to apply it to my medical aspirations as well...gawd knows I'm having plenty of self doubt of late.
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This! Thank you for posting this quote. I have spent so much time driving toward med school and constantly checking in to make sure I felt the level of investment needed...and now that it’s real I have had a few moments of unexpected terror. It’s fleeting...but I’d be lying if I said I hadn’t felt it. This quote feels very reassuring. Thank you!
 
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Laterthansooner said:
This! Thank you for posting this quote. I have spent so much time driving toward med school and constantly checking in to make sure I felt the level of investment needed...and now that it’s real I have had a few moments of unexpected terror. It’s fleeting...but I’d be lying if I said I hadn’t felt it. This quote feels very reassuring. Thank you!
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+1(million)

Those moments of "what if I put my family through this and then I fail/hate it/neglect my kids/can't deal, etc.." are scary. Good to know we're not alone with that. Great quote!
 
Have any of you ever read any of the Albino Blackbear blog--Asystole is the most stable rhythm
She is a former e.r. nurse in the Arctic who blogged for the past ~10 years about her quest to become a nontrad physician. If you read the two most recent posts, though (spoiler alert), it's a reality check for the fear and self-doubt. Will link it here in case anyone is interested in checking it out 🙂
Asystole is the Most Stable Rhythm
 
@Hazel-rah said:
Have any of you ever read any of the Albino Blackbear blog--Asystole is the most stable rhythm
She is a former e.r. nurse in the Arctic who blogged for the past ~10 years about her quest to become a nontrad physician. If you read the two most recent posts, though (spoiler alert), it's a reality check for the fear and self-doubt. Will link it here in case anyone is interested in checking it out 🙂
Asystole is the Most Stable Rhythm
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If the blog is as witty as the title, it should be great! Thanks for the link. I'll check it out for sure.
 
Super random question to distract me while waiting for interviews: anyone here ever live aboard a boat? Some friends are selling theirs at an extremely good price and location, and it's something I've been thinking about for a while... I'd definitely come out ahead living there and renting out my house.
 
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