2018 taxes

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mustang sally

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Anyone else here file their 2018 taxes yet? I just did mine and my family got royally screwed over by Trump's tax plan due to the loss of personal exemptions. Pretty bitter about it right now.

I have to admit, I haven't been maxing out my 401k due to feeling like I needed that money to pay for student loans and whatnot. I guess it's time to start shoveling all of our money into our retirement plans. I have been contributing maybe around 9% of my income to my 401k. Do you think I will notice a significant difference in take home pay if I start maxing it out?
 
I have a feeling I will be very sad about the lost of SALT and itemized deductions. I haven’t gotten any of my W-2s yet though.


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I do think the SALT cap is going to be very rough for some people. Luckily that didn't affect us too much because we were itemizing pretty close to $24,000. Of course, even if we had ended up with >$24,000, we wouldn't have been able to itemize now due to the $10,000 cap.

I don't know who this tax plan benefits exactly, but it sure wasn't my family.
 
I have to admit, I haven't been maxing out my 401k due to feeling like I needed that money to pay for student loans and whatnot. I guess it's time to start shoveling all of our money into our retirement plans. I have been contributing maybe around 9% of my income to my 401k. Do you think I will notice a significant difference in take home pay if I start maxing it out?
Your take home pay will go down by (1 - 0.24) x 401k if you're in the 24% tax bracket and not considering state taxes. So if you increase your 401k by $8,000 to max it out, your take home pay will go down by $6,080 or $233.85 for a biweekly paycheck.
 
You might also consider going to a high deductible health plan through your employer next year and maxing out your HSA and investing the funds if possible. One more tax savvy way to save.

The contributions are exempt from FICA, so you can save even more per dollar than with other savings mechanisms.
 
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You might also consider going to a high deductible health plan next year and maxing out your HSA and investing the funds if possible. One more tax savvy way to save.

Agreed. If it is right for you/your family, I'd do HSA to max (3500 single/7000 fam) prior to maxing 401k.
 
2nd highest tax state and yep, paid about a paycheck more in taxes this year. Already had planned on it as the estimates were close.
my effective tax bracket went down, from 14% to 10%. My marginal went down as well, from 25 to 22%. MAGI of 150k in 2017 and 2018, married filing jointly
 
You might also consider going to a high deductible health plan through your employer next year and maxing out your HSA and investing the funds if possible. One more tax savvy way to save.

The contributions are exempt from FICA, so you can save even more per dollar than with other savings mechanisms.

Okay, I must be a bit naive about HSAs. I max out my dependent care flex plan, but I never use the HSA because we usually don't have too many medical expenses.

So you invest the money in your HSA and it just rolls over year to year until you have medical bills? It's not like you have to take the money out at the end of the year?
 
Okay, I must be a bit naive about HSAs. I max out my dependent care flex plan, but I never use the HSA because we usually don't have too many medical expenses.

So you invest the money in your HSA and it just rolls over year to year until you have medical bills? It's not like you have to take the money out at the end of the year?
correct but once you are 65 you can withdraw from HSA for non-medical expenses just like you would a 401k or traditional ira
 
Okay, I must be a bit naive about HSAs. I max out my dependent care flex plan, but I never use the HSA because we usually don't have too many medical expenses.

So you invest the money in your HSA and it just rolls over year to year until you have medical bills? It's not like you have to take the money out at the end of the year?

And the HSA money follows you from job to job. I really need to switch to one, instead of trying to spend my FSA money like a madwoman every December and buying a bunch of crap I don’t need just because I’ve already paid for it.


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correct but once you are 65 you can withdraw from HSA for non-medical expenses just like you would a 401k or traditional ira
True. You will be taxed though using it this way. You can always use it for current or future medical expenses, tax free. You may save medical receipts from today that you paid out of pocket for at any point when the HSA was open, then reimburse yourself at any point later after the money has grown.

Just keep in mind, some of these have high fees. I think the groups that run them really try to gouge employees with extraordinary fees.
 
my effective tax bracket went down, from 14% to 10%. My marginal went down as well, from 25 to 22%. MAGI of 150k in 2017 and 2018, married filing jointly

Most of it had to do with the SALT elimination due to state income taxes in MN (which are close to CA for how high they are). If we lived in a lower cost state or even DC, it would be an unambiguous cut by avoiding AMT. My wife's job isn't transferable, otherwise, we'd probably move to DC proper and get tax breaks for the rich for gentrifying Anacostia.

There's also some denial of business benefits (home office) that change our deductions as well, but that's ok too considering that the commuting cost is avoided.
 
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So far it looks like we'll be paying in about $200. We maxed our 401Ks in anticipation of the changes. We have had wide swings in medical bills so I'm afraid about using the HSA plan. I'll likely be having one if not two surgeries this year so it would have been a good year to do it but I have had one of them rescheduled in the past so I was too afraid to do it.

I don't know who this tax plan benefits exactly, but it sure wasn't my family.

I think we know the answer to this.
 
True. You will be taxed though using it this way. You can always use it for current or future medical expenses, tax free. You may save medical receipts from today that you paid out of pocket for at any point when the HSA was open, then reimburse yourself at any point later after the money has grown.

Just keep in mind, some of these have high fees. I think the groups that run them really try to gouge employees with extraordinary fees.

That’s a good point about any medical bills at any time. Last week I received a bill for the balance for anesthesia from a surgery I had in 6/2017 due to “disputes with my insurer.” It wasn’t a large bill, but annoying knowing I couldn’t use an FSA for it because of the time passed since the procedure.


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Are HSA's better than PPO's or HMO's?
 
Are HSA's better than PPO's or HMO's?

Using the Fepblue for reference (it's easy as an exemplar with three clear categories, but plans and costs vary of course):
Blue Cross and Blue Shield's Federal Employee Plan

Basic is the healthy plan and for network coverage
Standard is the plan for more ill members and all provider network (non-network allowed)
Focus is the HDHP plan

All of them have a $10k catastrophic coverage ceiling (meaning that you won't pay more than $10k any plan year, which gives you a worst case scenario).

Speaking with a Fed and actuarial hat on given how FEHB (government insurance for employee plans are public information) works. If you're healthy and it's just you, you can do the HDHP plan with assuming bigger risk. If you end up spending more than $3-4k within a five year period, then no. Looking at our FEHB payout data, using the HDHP works until that one bad year, and that bad year is a really bad year for a federal employee. I generally recommend that families that have one child or more get at least the Basic plan, because the out of the money expense for one serious childhood illness or injury is high enough that it's worth the cost and switch over to the Standard if there is a high cost event in the near future (OB-GYN for delivery or a new chronic illness). For someone who is solo, it's debatable.

(Actuarial hat off)
I don't think though that the idea of having an HDHP plan would recoup enough from investing to offset the obvious risk profile for a high expense medical event (and you all work in this industry to know how obfuscated the "costs", "charges", and "prices" that negotiation is practically a lost cause).

Personally, I have the Standard plan for fitting the problem of having a chronic disease (asthma) that has four meds and one of them being biological that offset any real expenses that would have come with the higher plan and traveling enough that I don't want to worry about going to an out-of-network provider (I ended up admitted to SF General once who ISN'T a Blue Cross provider, and Blue Cross had to eat the differential costs, otherwise, I would have been stuck with a $12k bill for an out-of-network provider). I also don't think that even if I were given the HSA for free with standard coverage, I would bother investing it considering that it's actually a bigger utility to have that money there to spend on some crazy medical incident (fall down Mt. Matterhorn in Switzerland and needing medical evacuation like my boss did).
 
Are HSA's better than PPO's or HMO's?
HSAs require you to have a High Deductible Health Plan of at least $1,350 singles/$2,700 families, so generally you should only choose them if your expected health care costs are low.
 
I'm saving $4,200 under the new tax laws compared to my 2018 income calculated with 2017 tax brackets. It's due to a 3-4% decrease in the tax brackets and the old $6,350 standard deduction + $4,050 personal exemption = $10,400 increasing to the new $12k standard deduction. I don't pay state income taxes in FL and paid off my mortgage a few years ago so don't have anywhere near enough to itemize (only $4k property taxes + $1k sales tax).

[edit]$5,300 -> $4,200. Forgot the 2017 $4k personal exemption.
 
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HSAs require you to have a High Deductible Health Plan of at least $1,350 singles/$2,700 families, so generally you should only choose them if your expected health care costs are low.
I am considering doing the HSA for tax savings. If it was just me i would go with the hsa but i have a wife and a 2 year old daughter so I decided to take a ppo. But I don't think we use a lot in any given year. This is always a confusing decision when open enrollment starts.
 
HSA all the way. I have 22k in my HSA. If I had a traditional PPO, all of that money would have been gone.

Contributions, earnings and withdrawals are all tax free. That's better than 401k or IRA.
 
I am ****ed up big time. Trump tax ****ed me up. I ll owe about 10 grants. It is ridiculous
 
Downloading TT right now for a single filer no dependents, reporting back the difference later.
 
Using the Fepblue for reference (it's easy as an exemplar with three clear categories, but plans and costs vary of course):
Blue Cross and Blue Shield's Federal Employee Plan

Basic is the healthy plan and for network coverage
Standard is the plan for more ill members and all provider network (non-network allowed)
Focus is the HDHP plan

All of them have a $10k catastrophic coverage ceiling (meaning that you won't pay more than $10k any plan year, which gives you a worst case scenario).

Speaking with a Fed and actuarial hat on given how FEHB (government insurance for employee plans are public information) works. If you're healthy and it's just you, you can do the HDHP plan with assuming bigger risk. If you end up spending more than $3-4k within a five year period, then no. Looking at our FEHB payout data, using the HDHP works until that one bad year, and that bad year is a really bad year for a federal employee. I generally recommend that families that have one child or more get at least the Basic plan, because the out of the money expense for one serious childhood illness or injury is high enough that it's worth the cost and switch over to the Standard if there is a high cost event in the near future (OB-GYN for delivery or a new chronic illness). For someone who is solo, it's debatable.

(Actuarial hat off)
I don't think though that the idea of having an HDHP plan would recoup enough from investing to offset the obvious risk profile for a high expense medical event (and you all work in this industry to know how obfuscated the "costs", "charges", and "prices" that negotiation is practically a lost cause).

Personally, I have the Standard plan for fitting the problem of having a chronic disease (asthma) that has four meds and one of them being biological that offset any real expenses that would have come with the higher plan and traveling enough that I don't want to worry about going to an out-of-network provider (I ended up admitted to SF General once who ISN'T a Blue Cross provider, and Blue Cross had to eat the differential costs, otherwise, I would have been stuck with a $12k bill for an out-of-network provider). I also don't think that even if I were given the HSA for free with standard coverage, I would bother investing it considering that it's actually a bigger utility to have that money there to spend on some crazy medical incident (fall down Mt. Matterhorn in Switzerland and needing medical evacuation like my boss did).


Are you taking into account that the hdhp is the cheapest biweekly fee and you get $1800 dollars back into your HSA of your premium? This effectively makes your deductible $1200 so you would need more then one bad year for the plan to not be beneficial.
 
Just did the wife’s taxes. Not itemizing this year (we file seperately for pslf purpose) due to no major deductions save MI, changing our charity (tithing) to every other year to maximize tax savings.

She had 6k more taxable income this year due to not itemizing. And her AGI was 800 less (took advantage of HSA and dcfsa) and she paid $789 less in taxes. Of course it was actually $2789 but that is including the new child tax credit as we just had a baby.

I haven’t finished mine completely due to more complicated but I’ll be surprised if I don’t save a similar amount or more (higher AGI and only had 11k in deductions last hear)
 
Haven't done my taxes yet, but It seems like it's going to primarily benefit the following crowd:

- No state income tax
- Claiming standard deduction (no house to itemize)
- Possibly the ultra wealthy

Plotted on a curve the benefit probably looks bi-modal, with with $100-300K earners with homes in a blue state getting screwed the hardest in the middle of the curve. Anyone's tax bill support or undermine this?
 
Are you taking into account that the hdhp is the cheapest biweekly fee and you get $1800 dollars back into your HSA of your premium? This effectively makes your deductible $1200 so you would need more then one bad year for the plan to not be beneficial.

Yes, and that actually includes the tax deductible for excessive medical expenditures and the $6350 limit, you only need one bad year to cancel out five. It's been debated at OPM whether or not they should allow such plans considering that they are the only ones where employees declare bankruptcy from for medical expenditures (the rate is low, something in the low teens, but it's quite there). It's $2k over the five years in premium savings, but there is no premium clawback to HSA in our plans (if there were, just add that to the $3-4k to revise the numbers).

The numbers are such though that the point stands, if you're going to have one bad year, it's going to be an expensive one with a HDHP, and you'd be in the worst position to make good on that expensive year. Just like contracting, there's risks involved. There's profit too, I'm not saying that HDHP's don't make sense if you're the right kind of people, and it's possible to make money from not using the plan. But I've seen this blow up in enough faces, and from the actuarial standpoint, it's lossy enough issue that it takes a toll on employee retention matters as well as productivity, that it's definitely not the plan that one defaults to. Considering how much we make though, I'm just surprised that the people who know just how expensive medical care can get and the misery of debt are willing to take such higher risks for such low payouts, there's easier ways to make money than investing an HSA given the risks.
 
I got back about $1,500. I lowered my withholdings from last year but still overpaid. Ah well, I can live with that. 🙂
It's always better to overpay than owing the govt money.
 
No, opposite, you want to owe the government a little money (<$1000), otherwise, you gave the government an interest free loan.

Yeah but if you owe them money and for any reason you are delayed in filing your return they will make you pay a penalty. That is not an issue if they owe you money.
 
No, opposite, you want to owe the government a little money (<$1000), otherwise, you gave the government an interest free loan.
All my techs like a big refund because they live paycheck to paycheck. This is the only form of savings they have. I guess it works for people who spend every penny they receive. As soon as they get the refund it's all spent on going to Disney, taking a vacation and more junk. They love to give government free interest money.
 
I am missing 1099-B, and 1099-DIV from Vanguard, I guess I can't complete my tax return for at least 2 more weeks 🙁
 
All my techs like a big refund because they live paycheck to paycheck. This is the only form of savings they have. I guess it works for people who spend every penny they receive. As soon as they get the refund it's all spent on going to Disney, taking a vacation and more junk. They love to give government free interest money.

Yup the average person doesn't understand that they're giving the government an interest free loan. But if they adjusted their withholdings, they would have spent that extra money throughout the year anyway. I always laugh when I hear the ads "Spend your tax refund on new furniture! Use your tax refund for a down payment on a new car!" Or even worse the ones that give you an "advance" on your tax return.
 
I am ****ed up big time. Trump tax ****ed me up. I ll owe about 10 grants. It is ridiculous

Just curious, what part of the new tax law screwed you over?

Not sure how my company updated their withholding tables, but I also ended up having way less tax withheld than in 2017 (which really sucks since my taxes were so much higher).

Haven't done my taxes yet, but It seems like it's going to primarily benefit the following crowd:

- No state income tax
- Claiming standard deduction (no house to itemize)
- Possibly the ultra wealthy

Plotted on a curve the benefit probably looks bi-modal, with with $100-300K earners with homes in a blue state getting screwed the hardest in the middle of the curve. Anyone's tax bill support or undermine this?
Not really in what I consider to be a blue state, but otherwise yes, my tax bill supports this.
 
I will have to take a look. I guess if I can't do itemized deductions anymore, I will just pay off my condo more quickly. I think that our economy isn't doing well now, and hesitate to put more than 10% into my 401k.
 
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All my techs like a big refund because they live paycheck to paycheck. This is the only form of savings they have. I guess it works for people who spend every penny they receive. As soon as they get the refund it's all spent on going to Disney, taking a vacation and more junk. They love to give government free interest money.

I mean yeah, I get it. When you are barely scraping by getting a big refund check seems like a windfall. Plus psychologically it's always nice to get more money than less.

But you are right of course, once you realize that it is your money that you could have had all year, the big refunds do not look so glamorous.
 
I will have to take a look. I guess if I can't do itemized deductions anymore, I will just pay off my condo more quickly. I think that our economy isn't doing well now, and hesitate to put more than 10% into my 401k.

You should be maxing your 401k if you can. If the economy isn't doing well, that's even more reason to buy.
 
Just curious, what part of the new tax law screwed you over?

Not sure how my company updated their withholding tables, but I also ended up having way less tax withheld than in 2017 (which really sucks since my taxes were so much higher).


Not really in what I consider to be a blue state, but otherwise yes, my tax bill supports this.
I had about 10K less withheld from my taxes in 2018 than I did in 2017. I'll owe about $3-3.5K. (Still haven't got all my 1099s, but basing on 2017 data. I buy and hold, so no sales). I've adjusted my W4. I like to be within +/- $1K when I file.
 
Using the Fepblue for reference (it's easy as an exemplar with three clear categories, but plans and costs vary of course):
Blue Cross and Blue Shield's Federal Employee Plan

Basic is the healthy plan and for network coverage
Standard is the plan for more ill members and all provider network (non-network allowed)
Focus is the HDHP plan

All of them have a $10k catastrophic coverage ceiling (meaning that you won't pay more than $10k any plan year, which gives you a worst case scenario).

Speaking with a Fed and actuarial hat on given how FEHB (government insurance for employee plans are public information) works. If you're healthy and it's just you, you can do the HDHP plan with assuming bigger risk. If you end up spending more than $3-4k within a five year period, then no. Looking at our FEHB payout data, using the HDHP works until that one bad year, and that bad year is a really bad year for a federal employee. I generally recommend that families that have one child or more get at least the Basic plan, because the out of the money expense for one serious childhood illness or injury is high enough that it's worth the cost and switch over to the Standard if there is a high cost event in the near future (OB-GYN for delivery or a new chronic illness). For someone who is solo, it's debatable.

(Actuarial hat off)
I don't think though that the idea of having an HDHP plan would recoup enough from investing to offset the obvious risk profile for a high expense medical event (and you all work in this industry to know how obfuscated the "costs", "charges", and "prices" that negotiation is practically a lost cause).

Personally, I have the Standard plan for fitting the problem of having a chronic disease (asthma) that has four meds and one of them being biological that offset any real expenses that would have come with the higher plan and traveling enough that I don't want to worry about going to an out-of-network provider (I ended up admitted to SF General once who ISN'T a Blue Cross provider, and Blue Cross had to eat the differential costs, otherwise, I would have been stuck with a $12k bill for an out-of-network provider). I also don't think that even if I were given the HSA for free with standard coverage, I would bother investing it considering that it's actually a bigger utility to have that money there to spend on some crazy medical incident (fall down Mt. Matterhorn in Switzerland and needing medical evacuation like my boss did).


Just tossing in more about the difference in the 3 plans:

Blue Focus - aimed at young, healthy individuals, possibly couples. Expectations are little to no medications needed, not a lot of visits to doctor. Great if you stay healthy. If you end up needing medications, hope it comes in a generic. (Pharmacy benefit is 2 tiers. Generic, and Preferred Brands / specialty) Big co-pays (35% I believe?)

Basic Option - Pretty good round about plan. Most prescriptions are covered, though some only in their generic form. Preferreds are covered, non-preferreds are not. No mail order option, but if you're relatively healthy, the retail pharmacy can handle your requests. (Pharmacy benefit has all 5 tiers, but the coverage isn't quite all there) (I don't remember the copays)

Standard Option - it's nearly all covered plan. Fantastic prescription coverage as far as what the insurance will pay for. You have 5 tiers for the pharmacy benefit, but there is some wiggle room there on higher tier'd meds.
 
Haven't done my taxes yet, but It seems like it's going to primarily benefit the following crowd:

- No state income tax
- Claiming standard deduction (no house to itemize)
- Possibly the ultra wealthy

Plotted on a curve the benefit probably looks bi-modal, with with $100-300K earners with homes in a blue state getting screwed the hardest in the middle of the curve. Anyone's tax bill support or undermine this?

It was good for me, but like you mentioned I have no state income tax and don't own a home. My agi was about 20k higher than last year and I paid virtually the same in taxes as last year.
 
1099s came from Vanguard. I think I'm getting raped coz I got like $20k dividend...
 
1099s came from Vanguard. I think I'm getting raped coz I got like $20k dividend...
Holy ****. Is this your taxable account? How much do you have invested?
 
Is there an app that will give estimate of tax return before I file for taxes?
 
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