New EV tax credit bill to be signed on Monday

[mentos]

Mark my words. Nobody reserving a Rivian today is getting a federal tax rebate.



They were supposed to produce 50,000 this year, they cut that number to 25,000 I see some estimates that they’re really expecting 12-14,000. They won’t even hit the lower end of the forecast. Anyone can make one electric car. It’s very difficult to make enough to be anywhere close to profitable.

Rivian knows without a doubt their cars won’t qualify for a rebate. That’s why they were trying to get people to sign a contract before the new rules went into effect. I’ll be surprised if someone signing up today is able to get a sub $100,000 SUV or a sub $90,000 truck.

Rivian (RIVN) is not happy to be left out of new EV tax credit

Rivian (RIVN) commented on the new EV federal tax that is expected to be adopted, and the American automaker said...

electrek.co

12-14,000 is a lot different from "it won't ever come out". It takes time to scale. Toyota only sold 3,200 Rav4 Prime in USA the first year. They sold 27,703 in the second year.

Btw it's a tax credit, not a rebate. All manufacturers advised their customers to get a binding contract for 2022 models before the IRA was signed. Volkswagen, Hyundai, Kia, etc. That was the only way to qualify for the tax credit if it doesn't qualify under the new IRA eligibility.

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[mentos]

@WVUPharm2007 if you're looking for AWD, the Equinox EV is supposed to start at 30k. If it's really that cheap then this will be 22.5k after credit, cheaper than a gas Rav4 or CR-V. The Bolt platform will be retired and be replaced by the Ultimum platform, shared by the Equinox EV, Blazer EV, Cadillac Lyric EV, Hummer EV, Silverado truck EV, and Honda Prologue EV. This line looks promising.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2022/09/2024-chevy-equinox-ev-makes-official-debut/

 

[WVUPharm2007]

@WVUPharm2007 if you're looking for AWD, the Equinox EV is supposed to start at 30k. If it's really that cheap then this will be 22.5k after credit, cheaper than a gas Rav4 or CR-V. The Bolt platform will be retired and be replaced by the Ultimum platform, shared by the Equinox EV, Blazer EV, Cadillac Lyric EV, Hummer EV, Silverado truck EV, and Honda Prologue EV. This line looks promising.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2022/09/2024-chevy-equinox-ev-makes-official-debut/

I saw that. We'll have to see how much the AWD option is. It looks like it won't be standard. But from the pictures they've released, it looks very comfortable inside. Looks kind of like an Ioniq 5 and a Mitsubishi Outlander had a child. They also announced an agreement with Flying J and Pilot to have chargers at those locations nationwide, which, IMO, is the biggest news here.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

The Bolt platform will be retired and be replaced by the Ultimum platform, shared by the Equinox EV, Blazer EV, Cadillac Lyric EV, Hummer EV, Silverado truck EV, and Honda Prologue EV. This line looks promising.

Kind of a bummer, I really liked the looks of the Bolt EUV. So does this leave Kona and Niro as the only subcompact crossover EVs?

 

[mentos]

Kind of a bummer, I really liked the looks of the Bolt EUV. So does this leave Kona and Niro as the only subcompact crossover EVs?

I think Volvo XC40 and C40 Recharge are considered subcompact. You can still get the Bolt EUV now.

 

[Mad Jack]

Biden is expected to sign the IRA on Monday. Only EVs and PHEVs made in North America will qualify for the $7500 federal tax credit. Previous 2022 models that qualified under 200k limit will no longer qualify. If you already bought a EV6, ID4, Ioniq5, Rav4 Prime, or XC40 Recharge etc this year then you'll get the tax credit. But if you buy those after Monday, you don't.

If you want an EV, buy now – Rivian, Fisker and others rush to lock in EV tax credits before changes

Electric cars assembled outside of North America may lose access to EV tax credits within a week, and buyers need to act fast to save money.

electrek.co

I think this new bill is so stupid. Why exclude imports? Cars made overseas are superior than American made. Toyota, Honda, VW (2022), Porsche, Audi, BMW, Hyundai, Kia, Volvo, etc will no longer be eligible for the credit. This will just give Tesla and GM more money. And why mess with the 2022 eligibility? Leave 2022 alone and make it active in 2023.

Give everyone a check, or no one at all.

I think it's going to end up going to the WTO, Biden can't discriminate against foreign-made vehicles in this fashion without violating numerous free trade agreements

 

[Mad Jack]

"I don't have time to wait around to charge when I can fill up in 5 min."

"The electric grid already has rolling blackouts. What will happen when everyone is charging their car?"

"I need 600 miles of range on one charge even though my gas tank only provides half of that".

EVs are terrible for tracking, as they are prone to overheating and burning through battery power at high speeds, not to mention the effects of thousands of pounds of added weight on handling. For an enthusiast like myself, they're currently garbage. I also tend to like long road trips through desolate places that would make an EV quite limiting. For 99.99% of the population they're ideal. For me? Maybe I'll get one of the new Dodge models as a daily to save on fuel and save my BMW for road trips and the track.

 

[mentos]

EVs are terrible for tracking, as they are prone to overheating and burning through battery power at high speeds, not to mention the effects of thousands of pounds of added weight on handling. For an enthusiast like myself, they're currently garbage. I also tend to like long road trips through desolate places that would make an EV quite limiting. For 99.99% of the population they're ideal. For me? Maybe I'll get one of the new Dodge models as a daily to save on fuel and save my BMW for road trips and the track.

Better get a Challenge or Charger before they're gone.

Dodge Is Killing Off the Charger and Challenger. Here's What Comes Next

Dodge is killing off the V8 Charger and Challenger muscle cars by 2024. But an electric muscle car is coming — as well, potentially, as a six-cylinder one.

www.gearpatrol.com

I'm thinking of "investing" in a manual transmission sports car before 2035 when ICE vehicles are banned. I'm sure they'll skyrocket in value like the 90s Supras.

 

[mentos]

I think it's going to end up going to the WTO, Biden can't discriminate against foreign-made vehicles in this fashion without violating numerous free trade agreements

I sure hope so. I was interested in some foreign made EVs, but not without the tax credits.

 

[Mad Jack]

Better get a Challenge or Charger before they're gone.

Dodge Is Killing Off the Charger and Challenger. Here's What Comes Next

Dodge is killing off the V8 Charger and Challenger muscle cars by 2024. But an electric muscle car is coming — as well, potentially, as a six-cylinder one.

www.gearpatrol.com

I'm thinking of "investing" in a manual transmission sports car before 2035 when ICE vehicles are banned. I'm sure they'll skyrocket in value like the 90s Supras.

I've already got a Challenger, it's my beater that I've driven damn near into the ground. I like that V8 rumble but after driving something sporty from Europe it's like driving a school bus. Hoping the next gen EVs/hybrids from Dodge are decent because I love my big dumb car though. I do worry that a lack of widely available gasoline may render ICE vehicle values far lower than they are pre-ban.

 

[mentos]

I've already got a Challenger, it's my beater that I've driven damn near into the ground. I like that V8 rumble but after driving something sporty from Europe it's like driving a school bus. Hoping the next gen EVs/hybrids from Dodge are decent because I love my big dumb car though. I do worry that a lack of widely available gasoline may render ICE vehicle values far lower than they are pre-ban.

I wouldn't worry about gas stations or even ICE vehicles going away. There's too many anti EV people out there. EVs aren't affordable for the average person and there's not enough lithium, chips or labor to supply them by 2035.

There are EV others in CA charging their cars with gas generators during the heat wave. The electric grid can't handle EVs if everyone has one.

 

[confettiflyer]

There are EV others in CA charging their cars with gas generators during the heat wave. The electric grid can't handle EVs if everyone has one.

Lol, it’s really not that hard to avoid charging during the most expensive part of the day (don’t have to tell me to spend $0.60/kW at peak). If you gotta do it, do it, though.

There were no load shedding events over the heatwave, but I agree we need a more robust grid…or just build a ton of coal plants in Utah and a few more high voltage transmission lines, and we’re good!

 

[DoctwoB]

Lol, it’s really not that hard to avoid charging during the most expensive part of the day (don’t have to tell me to spend $0.60/kW at peak). If you gotta do it, do it, though.

There were no load shedding events over the heatwave, but I agree we need a more robust grid…or just build a ton of coal plants in Utah and a few more high voltage transmission lines, and we’re good!

In the long run, EVs will probably save our grid. The issue isn't as much total electricity demand, it is peak demand that is >>>> baseline demand, requiring a lot of expensive "peaker" plants that we turn on and off that are expensive to build, run, and pollute.

the vast majority of EV charging will occur at night or in the morning, as it will easily be incentivized financially to do so. This will increase total power consumption, but dramatically smooth out the difference between peak and baseline demand, making it easier to provide. Eventually, it will even be that your utility pays you to feed back energy to the grid during peak times, and then you charge at off peak times (V2G). This will be a while yet, as not all EVs support it and almost no-one has a bidirectional home charger, but this will increase over time. This will allow us to increase the adoption of renewables like solar and wind which are cheap and clean, but less reliable/dependent on environmental conditions. our giant EV batteries will let us flatten the renewable production curve.

I have a similar program with my powerwall. during peak times, PGE pays me 2$/KWH for energy from my powerwall. It's a heck of a deal.