[2019-2020] Emergency Medicine Application Thread

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Also, I agree that for the most part, the spreadsheet is not super reliable and comical at best. However, I will say that it helped me a lot in determining where to apply to rotate and what places to avoid. I also looked at previous years applicants, their scores, and compared to my own to see what kind of places I may be competitive for, etc. So in that sense, for future applicants, I think that it can be a great resource for certain aspects of the app cycle if you use it wisely. For instance, if a program has 3 years of applicants stating on sub-I reviews that their wrote poor SLOE's mistreated their students, etc- that's helpful to know
 
Dr.Bruh said:
Good to hear! I'm applying broadly with very average stats next year (228/560). Just anxious/nervous to see the match results for DOs this year.
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I have a 218 step 1 and have had to cancel 7 interviews so far so the scores shouldn't be a major issue as long as your SLOE's are decent/good/great and the rest of your app doesn't have any major red flags. I've even had a few ii's from reach programs on my list.
 
Stephanopolous said:
I have a 218 step 1 and have had to cancel 7 interviews so far so the scores shouldn't be a major issue as long as your SLOE's are decent/good/great and the rest of your app doesn't have any major red flags. I've even had a few ii's from reach programs on my list.
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Nice! Congrats on the successful season hope you match your #1. Did you find you got more love in certain geographic locations as a DO?
 
Dr.Bruh said:
DO peeps. Hows EM cycle going now that this is the first totally merged match?
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No issues, similar position as other posters. Some even view being a DO as “overcoming an obstacle” lol

Dr.Bruh said:
Good to hear! I'm applying broadly with very average stats next year (228/560). Just anxious/nervous to see the match results for DOs this year.
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SLOEs are king in EM. Your scores won’t hold you back if you have excellent SLOEs and they won’t save you with bad SLOEs.
 
Dr.Bruh said:
Nice! Congrats on the successful season hope you match your #1. Did you find you got more love in certain geographic locations as a DO?
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Thank you! I feel very grateful for how this season has played out so far. Honestly I’ve received interviews from coast to coast. Slightly more in my home state of NY but only by like two. Otherwise a pretty good distribution across the country.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN
 
Stephanopolous said:
Thank you! I feel very grateful for how this season has played out so far. Honestly I’ve received interviews from coast to coast. Slightly more in my home state of NY but only by like two. Otherwise a pretty good distribution across the country.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN
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Very impressive. Sounds like you killed your auditions/letters. Anything you did that made you stand out on auditions you think?
 
Stephanopolous said:
I feel the need to warn you that this spreadsheet is known to invoke anxiety, neuroticism and other bad feelings. LOL


Sent from my iPhone using SDN
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i'm a 3rd year just chillin, needing to soak in as much of this as I can. it's good to see where my predicted stats stand, and what to kind of expect. But even in the spreadsheet, it varies so much. I expect just being a normal hard working person that can shoot the **** when needed will go a long way, regardless of stats
 
I started Med school with a lot of clinical and ED experience which definitely helped.

I followed zac olsons “how to crush your sloe” tips, to a T. Listened, listened again and took notes, then again. His series is honestly pure gold for this stuff.

Other than that, the typical work hard, always advocate for your patients, talked to my nurses after I saw every patient to tell them my plan and see what their thoughts were, be confident and concise in presenting, have a plan, have a dispo ready etc

I’m also Latina and speak Spanish so that helped me.

Sent from my iPhone using SDN
 
Stephanopolous said:
Sorry you ended up reading some BS on that chat tab. Honestly, that tab is a dumpster fire most of the time and I am very discouraged by what some of my future colleagues decide to put there; including racist, homophobic, sexist, comments (to name a few). I am constantly weeding through and removing offensive things that are put up. I know the majority of us are good people, but, just like any profession there are definitely some rotten eggs mixed in there.
You have helped so many people, so immensely, and you do it out of your own personal interest and kindness. I for one have benefitted so much from your help, and honestly I don't even know who I would have turned to if I hadn't been able to look to you for advice.
So again, I'm sorry for any crap you read on there and I don't blame you at all for what you're asking/requesting. I do know that in my experience being on rotations and going on interviews thus far, you are well known and it's in a very positive and respecftul light.

Thanks for all that you do, YOU ROCK and it means so much!!!!!

Steph
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Thanks! I appreciate the kind words, though you HARDLY needed my help to be successful. That was all on you.
 
Stephanopolous said:
Also, I agree that for the most part, the spreadsheet is not super reliable and comical at best. However, I will say that it helped me a lot in determining where to apply to rotate and what places to avoid. I also looked at previous years applicants, their scores, and compared to my own to see what kind of places I may be competitive for, etc. So in that sense, for future applicants, I think that it can be a great resource for certain aspects of the app cycle if you use it wisely. For instance, if a program has 3 years of applicants stating on sub-I reviews that their wrote poor SLOE's mistreated their students, etc- that's helpful to know
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Absolutely. I mainly look at the spreadsheet at the end of the season to see if I can get any anonymous feedback about our rotation or program from an interview standpoint. Usually a good place for brutal honesty since its anonymous.

Stephanopolous said:
I have a 218 step 1 and have had to cancel 7 interviews so far so the scores shouldn't be a major issue as long as your SLOE's are decent/good/great and the rest of your app doesn't have any major red flags. I've even had a few ii's from reach programs on my list.
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bombay2pac said:
man the sloes really effed me then, i have a higher step score but only 8 interviews total so far
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mancub said:
SLOEs are king in EM. Your scores won’t hold you back if you have excellent SLOEs and they won’t save you with bad SLOE.
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Yep yep yep. Apps live an die with the SLOEs, and everything else just helps differentiate people with similar SLOEs. Granted, if you have really low level scores, you may get blocked out of some higher tier places, but in terms of matching EM, the SLOEs will ultimately dictate how you do.
 
Stephanopolous said:
going well for me also, have several DO friends that are doing decent/great
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I know there was a ton of fear around the merger, thats about when I started posting here on SDN because there was so much confusion and uncertainty amongst all the DO students that were coming through. But I always believed the merger was a good thing for GME, it forced the then AOA programs to meet a higher standard (if they already hadn’t been) and for DO’s it gave them so many more options from an application standpoint. And most importantly, it ended holding DO’s hostage to the earlier DO match, forcing them to anxiously choose between a safe route (AOA match) or applying to perhaps programs that they potentially would rather match at, but were in a later match. All in all, I think it was a net positive, and only will continue to be a positive for DOs down the road.
 
So if you get an interview invite via ERAS and all the interview + waitlist spots are full, do you just have to periodically check back to see if anything opens?
Not sure if I should be checking back everyday or?
& do programs send out these invites knowing all the spots are full? I literally logged in within 1 minute
 
Forever_Blessed said:
So if you get an interview invite via ERAS and all the interview + waitlist spots are full, do you just have to periodically check back to see if anything opens?
Not sure if I should be checking back everyday or?
& do programs send out these invites knowing all the spots are full? I literally logged in within 1 minute
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Interview scheduling is all across the board with programs. Id just reach out to the program coordinator and ask them directly.
 
Can anyone speak to the post interview communication? Programs have said they aren’t allowed to reach out, but the spreadsheet says some have? What are they saying/allowed to say? What does that mean?
 
CyrilFiggis said:
Can anyone speak to the post interview communication? Programs have said they aren’t allowed to reach out, but the spreadsheet says some have? What are they saying/allowed to say? What does that mean?
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Programs and applicants are allowed to reach out. Its discouraged, but it is not a match violation. So a large number on both sides do reach out to some extent, but there is a large variety in how they do and how much they disclose.

What is absolutely forbidden is either side asking the other party where they are ranked, or expressly trying to influence the other party’s list. A program directly asking you “where are you ranking us” or saying “we will rank you highly but only if you assure us we are your #1” would be examples of a match violation.

Most post interview communication is vague and comes down to “we are ranking you highly as a candidate” or “im ranking your program highly”. Its typically vague, and means different things to different programs (top 1/3, top 1/2, etc) and different candidates (top 3 programs, top 5, etc).

Some people will tell their #1 they are their #1 program, but honestly Ive been told this many times and it wasn't the case so I take all post-interview communication with a grain of salt unless I really trust the person.
 
What is the "spreadsheet" that everyone keeps referring to? is it this? Is it the official 2020 em applicant spreadsheet? If so where exactly are there rude comments and post IV communication discussion. Hah or am i just missing something?
 
The spreadsheet has a link on the first page of this post. There are tabs for different things, like whether a program has reached out for post iv communication, etc.

The comments I specifically was referring to were in the chat and I’m sure are way down there now on the post list. They weren’t explicitly rude, were more discrediting why anyone would listen to my advice. There were several threads that mentioned this stuff, but honestly its not worth searching for them. To each their own opinion. I’d just prefer to have that discussion with someone that feels that way directly on the forums rather than in an anonymous post.
 
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gamerEMdoc said:
The spreadsheet has a link on the first page of this post. There are tabs for different things, like whether a program has reached out for post iv communication, etc.

The comments I specifically was referring to were in the chat and I’m sure are way down there now on the post list. They weren’t explicitly rude, were more discrediting why anyone would listen to my advice. There were several threads that mentioned this stuff, but honestly its not worth searching for them. To each their own opinion. I’d just prefer to have that discussion with someone that feels that way directly on the forums rather than in an anonymous post.
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Since I have you attention I have a quick question about my situation... I'm not sure if I should start severely freaking out or what. DO student 244/248 steps 589/639 comlexes. 7 publications from before med school, As in all clerkship, no red flags but nothing that makes me stand out either. So far I've got 5 total EM invites 3 of them from places I rotated 1 wait list. Not sure what i got in my first away. But second SLOE away I got an HP but it was not uploaded until after the universal release date on 10/17 and 3rd sloe was uploaded 11/2 and i got an Honors.

Do you think its the first SLOE that was bad and ended up killing my app? Or perhaps the fact that I didn't get my second sloe until after a lot of interviews were sent out? I saw at least 5/10 evaluating docs check off "top 1/3" during my first away. Our school does only P/F the only reason I know grades is because coordinators have disclosed them

Here is what my school eval comment said, which im pretty sure is copied and pasted from the SLOE
"____ was universally well-liked and came to work enthusiastic and eager to contribute. He came off as compassionate and attentive when dealing with patients and families. He frequently knew the test results before the attending and mainly gave well-organized presentations. He seemed to integrate feedback in real time which will bode him well during residency. His fund of knowledge is lacking and he exhibited only reporter-level skills. _____’s differential diagnoses often lacked appropriate depth and complexity. He is competent and attentive, with continued study and appropriate mentorship he will make a solid resident. "


let me know what your thoughts are....I just spent some time googling the SOAP process... this is a helluva stressful time lol.
 
Enik said:
Since I have you attention I have a quick question about my situation... I'm not sure if I should start severely freaking out or what. DO student 244/248 steps 589/639 comlexes. 7 publications from before med school, As in all clerkship, no red flags but nothing that makes me stand out either. So far I've got 5 total EM invites 3 of them from places I rotated 1 wait list. Not sure what i got in my first away. But second SLOE away I got an HP but it was not uploaded until after the universal release date on 10/17 and 3rd sloe was uploaded 11/2 and i got an Honors.

Do you think its the first SLOE that was bad and ended up killing my app? Or perhaps the fact that I didn't get my second sloe until after a lot of interviews were sent out? I saw at least 5/10 evaluating docs check off "top 1/3" during my first away. Our school does only P/F the only reason I know grades is because coordinators have disclosed them

Here is what my school eval comment said, which im pretty sure is copied and pasted from the SLOE
"____ was universally well-liked and came to work enthusiastic and eager to contribute. He came off as compassionate and attentive when dealing with patients and families. He frequently knew the test results before the attending and mainly gave well-organized presentations. He seemed to integrate feedback in real time which will bode him well during residency. His fund of knowledge is lacking and he exhibited only reporter-level skills. _____’s differential diagnoses often lacked appropriate depth and complexity. He is competent and attentive, with continued study and appropriate mentorship he will make a solid resident. "


let me know what your thoughts are....I just spent some time googling the SOAP process... this is a helluva stressful time lol.
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Well I think there has to be a negative sloe, bc you have above average boards for a DO, 7 publications, and only 2 interviews outside of places you rotated. Unless there is another red flag you arent disclosing, it has to be the sloe, without a doubt. Especially with the comments in your school evaluation about the knowledge base and ddx issues.

I doubt only one sloe early on hurt you as much as the only sloe you had being a negative. By the time you had a second more positive sloe, it was already nearly November. Had the first SLOE been a good one, I doubt you’d be in this position.

The good thing is, if your 2nd and 3rd rotations went really well, you may match there. It only takes one!
 
Hey gamerEMdoc, thanks so much for putting in the time and effort to help out so many of us! Quick question about my situation. Been having difficulty getting II's so far. Step scores are ~ 250/265 and I've got good evals on my 3 SLOE's (H/HP/H). All 3 SLOE's were in by early October. I applied to 60 programs, and I'm at 7 II's so far, 3 of those from my aways, and 4 non-aways. And the 4 non-aways are mostly from local community programs.

Pretty disappointed because I expected more, especially when I compare myself to some of my peers who have lower scores and seem to have double my II's, even ones from programs I applied to. I don't have any red flags I'm aware of. My extracurricular's are average I'd say. I've sent LOI's without much success.

Any advice?
 
Neighborr said:
Hey gamerEMdoc, thanks so much for putting in the time and effort to help out so many of us! Quick question about my situation. Been having difficulty getting II's so far. Step scores are ~ 250/265 and I've got good evals on my 3 SLOE's (H/HP/H). All 3 SLOE's were in by early October. I applied to 60 programs, and I'm at 7 II's so far, 3 of those from my aways, and 4 non-aways. And the 4 non-aways are mostly from local community programs.

Pretty disappointed because I expected more, especially when I compare myself to some of my peers who have lower scores and seem to have double my II's, even ones from programs I applied to. I don't have any red flags I'm aware of. My extracurricular's are average I'd say. I've sent LOI's without much success.

Any advice?
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Not sure what can be done to change anything at this point. I suspect one of your sloes, if not more, arent as good as you’d expect. Some places give nearly everyone honors, then have a more normal sloe distribution. So Honors or HP doesnt automatically equal a great sloe.

If its not a sloe issue, Im not sure why else you’d be in the situation you are. Granted, you are still in a fine spot with a great chance at matching, but you’d expect a more competitive # of interviews based on your scores otherwise.
 
I have a few interviews in January, even if it’s after Jan 15th when we start ranking, is there any disadvantage to us applicants?
 
bombay2pac said:
I have a few interviews in January, even if it’s after Jan 15th when we start ranking, is there any disadvantage to us applicants?
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No. You can't submit until way later in February, so it's really just playing around with the rank list anyway until then. Research shows that it likely doesn't matter when you interview, but does matter when you get sent the actual invite.

Also to the multiple people above, I think Gamer is being nice, with your guys stats and research, you guys got destroyed in your SLOEs or you'd be rolling in interviews.
 
bombay2pac said:
I have a few interviews in January, even if it’s after Jan 15th when we start ranking, is there any disadvantage to us applicants?
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None at all. Why would a place interview you if they weren't going to consider ranking you like everyone else?
 
Rekt said:
Also to the multiple people above, I think Gamer is being nice, with your guys stats and research, you guys got destroyed in your SLOEs or you'd be rolling in interviews.
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Not sure they were destroyed in their SLOEs but more than likely got a low 1/3 in at least one of them that shied many places away.

But yeah, its almost certainly the sloes. Its always the sloes.
 
gamerEMdoc said:
Some places give nearly everyone honors, then have a more normal sloe distribution. So Honors or HP doesnt automatically equal a great sloe.
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This is the issue with SLOEs and frankly why our ranking should not be blinded. If programs weight them so highly, we as applicants at least need to be able to see if we’re top/middle/bottom 1/3rd. Getting an “honors” that isn’t honors is deceitful and unethical. If programs want to keep us from over applying, this would help.

Unrelated to my rant, I still have heard from roughly 70% of the programs I applied to. Anyone else in the same boat?
 
Rekt said:
No. You can't submit until way later in February, so it's really just playing around with the rank list anyway until then. Research shows that it likely doesn't matter when you interview, but does matter when you get sent the actual invite.

Also to the multiple people above, I think Gamer is being nice, with your guys stats and research, you guys got destroyed in your SLOEs or you'd be rolling in interviews.
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What if you get the interview late because 1 out of 2 SLOES were bad, but then you update a top 10% SLOE in like late november? Does that potentially put you in the same pool as the initial wave of invites? Convulated question sorry.
 
I love the way gamerEMdoc put it,." Why would a place interview you if they weren't going to consider ranking you like everyone else?" I honestly think we are all at the same playing field whether we get an interview in October versus January/February.
 
CyrilFiggis said:
This is the issue with SLOEs and frankly why our ranking should not be blinded. If programs weight them so highly, we as applicants at least need to be able to see if we’re top/middle/bottom 1/3rd. Getting an “honors” that isn’t honors is deceitful and unethical. If programs want to keep us from over applying, this would help.

Unrelated to my rant, I still have heard from roughly 70% of the programs I applied to. Anyone else in the same boat?
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Yes and these concerns are known by CORD. Its just that no one wants to unblind LORs, bc thats why grades at many places arent trustworthy in the first place. If you unblind sloes, the places that give 90% Honors bc they are afraid to give negative feedback will suddenly give 90% top 10% sloes. Then Sloes become as meaningless as general LORs that just all say everyone is the greatest candidate ever. Then letters dont matter.

Not only that, but even if places are honest and give a good distribution, students would be able to manipulate the system and only submit the SLOEs that are positive.

I dont have an answer, but I dont believe unblinding SLOEs is the answer.

And even if it was, and there was some middle ground, it would take integration with eras. You’d have to require any sloe written to be submitted no matter what. And how would that work for people applying to two specialties?

I honestly cant think of a great way to do this. Im aware the blinded nature means over application. I just dont know how unblinding it doesnt just completely devalue the clinical evaluations to the point we’ll just do what every other field does and just base rank of board scores (which is a terrible idea imo).
 
blah12346497 said:
What if you get the interview late because 1 out of 2 SLOES were bad, but then you update a top 10% SLOE in like late november? Does that potentially put you in the same pool as the initial wave of invites? Convulated question sorry.
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Sloes should be viewed in context as a whole. Someone with an early low 1/3 sloe that takes feedback and excels in future rotations may be hurt by that one bad one, but it shouldnt completely kill their chances. So a late better SLOE definitely helps in those late interviews.

As a program, you are mainly trying to look at the average of all the opinions. Programs can be wrong on applicants. Im sure Ive been wrong on applicants. You try the best you can to evaluate people over a roughly 15 shift period, but honestly, sometimes people just have a bad few weeks. Stuff happens in their lives. Maybe you just caught them at the wrong time.

So even with people I personally think are middle or lower, if they get subsequent sloes that are much better, I take notice of that.

I actually look carefully at all the sloes for those Ive written sloes for to get a sense of correlation just for my own sense of feedback as a sloe author. I always want to make sure Im correlating well with others opinion, to make sure Im not way off the mark.

As for the different pools of invites, all invites are in the same pool. Those that interviewed. Once you’ve been interviewed your app and interview are judged vs everyone elses that interviewed, however a given program does that.
 
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CyrilFiggis said:
Unrelated to my rant, I still have heard from roughly 70% of the programs I applied to. Anyone else in the same boat?
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I think its far more common for programs to ghost candidates rather than outright reject them so I doubt you are alone on not hearing from a large chunk of places you applied.
 
For those who are late in residency or out into practice, how much weight should we place on procedure volume when making our rank list? All programs I've interviewed at don't have a problem providing enough to meet graduation requirements, but some programs have interns getting chest tubes and CVLs right and left vs other programs may not offer that significant volume. I guess my question is, should I weigh heavily programs who's procedure volumes are far in excess of the ACGME requirements, or meeting the ACGME requirements sufficient to make someone comfortable with these procedures in most practice environments?
 
Torsion said:
For those who are late in residency or out into practice, how much weight should we place on procedure volume when making our rank list? All programs I've interviewed at don't have a problem providing enough to meet graduation requirements, but some programs have interns getting chest tubes and CVLs right and left vs other programs may not offer that significant volume. I guess my question is, should I weigh heavily programs who's procedure volumes are far in excess of the ACGME requirements, or meeting the ACGME requirements sufficient to make someone comfortable with these procedures in most practice environments?
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My personal belief is the more procedures the better. The more autonomy given in the ED the better. But if you match somewhere where you just meet the ACGME requirements, you’ll still be fine.
 
Interviewed at a traditionally uncompetitive 4 yr NY program recently (mostly imgs) and was surprised by how many USMDs were there from big-name schools. Telling me about IVing at UCSF and shiz im sitting there like bro wtf are you doing here?
 
Listen2Savage said:
Interviewed at a traditionally uncompetitive 4 yr NY program recently (mostly imgs) and was surprised by how many USMDs were there from big-name schools. Telling me about IVing at UCSF and shiz im sitting there like bro wtf are you doing here?
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Look at it this way, they took up an interview spot and arent real competition bc they will match at a place they prefer more. For every candidate a program over-reaches on and interviews despite having no chance of actually matching them, it improves everyone elses chances of matching because its one less applicant who actually could match there.
 
how do I find these secret programs that are procedure heavy
 
Torsion said:
For those who are late in residency or out into practice, how much weight should we place on procedure volume when making our rank list? All programs I've interviewed at don't have a problem providing enough to meet graduation requirements, but some programs have interns getting chest tubes and CVLs right and left vs other programs may not offer that significant volume. I guess my question is, should I weigh heavily programs who's procedure volumes are far in excess of the ACGME requirements, or meeting the ACGME requirements sufficient to make someone comfortable with these procedures in most practice environments?
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boolin_1 said:
how do I find these secret programs that are procedure heavy
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I find it very hard to believe you're getting any type of accurate representation of number of procedures done. This question was almost always asked by someone at all my interviews and unanimously programs said "Oh we get tons", "you'll get your numbers really early", "interns are already checked off", etc. The reality is the RRC procedure requriement is ridiculously low and nearly every program will get several times the needed amount. It can even hugely vary between residents within the same program. You don't pick what comes into the emergency department. Also, for me, I could do two months extra of critical care if I wanted to at my program, which would add ton of CVLs and tubes, etc. I disagree with Gamer on this. I don't think you should put much weight on how many "reported" procedures a program has. You also don't even know what it means. What is a lot to you? What if a resident tells you he "only" has 32 LPs? What about at the other program where one had 64?
 
Rekt said:
I find it very hard to believe you're getting any type of accurate representation of number of procedures done. This question was almost always asked by someone at all my interviews and unanimously programs said "Oh we get tons", "you'll get your numbers really early", "interns are already checked off", etc. The reality is the RRC procedure requriement is ridiculously low and nearly every program will get several times the needed amount. It can even hugely vary between residents within the same program. You don't pick what comes into the emergency department. Also, for me, I could do two months extra of critical care if I wanted to at my program, which would add ton of CVLs and tubes, etc. I disagree with Gamer on this. I don't think you should put much weight on how many "reported" procedures a program has. You also don't even know what it means. What is a lot to you? What if a resident tells you he "only" has 32 LPs? What about at the other program where one had 64?
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True, I guess I put too much faith in people being honest on that one. If someone asks me in an interview what procedures we get more or less of, I’d flat out tell them though.

And also VERY TRUE that the numbers vary widely among residents within a given program. Part of that is luck, part of that is some residents just see more patiens, but a huge part is some residents are just terrible with logging procedures.

I disagree the acgme list is ridiculously low across the board. For some procedures it is, for others it isn't. I have no clue how they came up with the numbers they did for competence.

I do think procedural experience and autonomy are two of the more important things in developing as a resident. Since program procedure numbers arent published, I dont know of another way of knowing other than asking and hoping someone is being honest.
 
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