*** 2019-2020 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***

[micro_glia]

UPDATE: It worked ! Thanks for the advice!

Does that mean they're interviewing you that day? From your original post, how did you know they were still considering you for MD/PhD?

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[Pantherx263]

I have some questions related to letter of intent, updates, showing interest in schools, ect. So I know out of my interviews that had happened already which one would be my top choice. I have one more interview scheduled this month, but considering its getting later in the cycle and most MD/PhD admissions committees are wrapping up their interviews this month, I figured this is my favorite school so far and one I would feel comfortable at. I interviewed at this school mid-december and was planning on sending a letter of intent in February. They mentioned they still have some interview dates this month and didn't make it too clear when we'd hear a response, so I just figured I should wait a bit before sending one. I am basically wondering when people normally send letters of intent to their top choice? Does February sound good or should I send it sooner/later or wait to see if I've been wait listed or rejected first?

Additionally, is it recommended to stay in contact with other schools I interviewed at? For example, I interviewed at a school in october and haven't heard anything regarding admissions yet. I have sent an update letter (new research position) shortly after the interview but nothing since then. It is not my top choice, as I have stated I have a school in mind for the LOI, but if the first option doesn't work out, is it okay to contact schools I've interviewed at just with a little update saying I'm still interested? Or is that not worth/would be looked down upon if it's not a full on letter of intent?

Thanks!

 

[deleted1017698]

I have some questions related to letter of intent, updates, showing interest in schools, ect. So I know out of my interviews that had happened already which one would be my top choice. I have one more interview scheduled this month, but considering its getting later in the cycle and most MD/PhD admissions committees are wrapping up their interviews this month, I figured this is my favorite school so far and one I would feel comfortable at. I interviewed at this school mid-december and was planning on sending a letter of intent in February. They mentioned they still have some interview dates this month and didn't make it too clear when we'd hear a response, so I just figured I should wait a bit before sending one. I am basically wondering when people normally send letters of intent to their top choice? Does February sound good or should I send it sooner/later or wait to see if I've been wait listed or rejected first?

Additionally, is it recommended to stay in contact with other schools I interviewed at? For example, I interviewed at a school in october and haven't heard anything regarding admissions yet. I have sent an update letter (new research position) shortly after the interview but nothing since then. It is not my top choice, as I have stated I have a school in mind for the LOI, but if the first option doesn't work out, is it okay to contact schools I've interviewed at just with a little update saying I'm still interested? Or is that not worth/would be looked down upon if it's not a full on letter of intent?

Thanks!

I’m also curious about this. should letter be sent directly to PD or to program administrator? Any insights would be appreciated.


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[deleted1005053]

Can someone willing to give an opinion on a weird admissions situation PM me? I'd be very grateful!

 

[DannyTheDino]

This is maybe a stupid question, but are MD/PhD applicants supposed to submit FAFSA? I assumed no if you are going to a fully funded program, but one of my schools just sent me financial aid materials (granted, it’s from the med school not the MSTP) so I’m a little confused if I’m supposed to fill them out or not

 

[Seihai]

This is maybe a stupid question, but are MD/PhD applicants supposed to submit FAFSA? I assumed no if you are going to a fully funded program, but one of my schools just sent me financial aid materials (granted, it’s from the med school not the MSTP) so I’m a little confused if I’m supposed to fill them out or not

I went ahead and did it (pretty simple) but I've heard that generally no, you don't need to fill it out.

 

[TheDataKing]

I'm headed to a second look tomorrow/Thursday - what questions should I ask the program? They're non-MSTP but do provide a tuition waiver for the MD and grad school portions and give a pre-doctoral stipend based on NRSA during the PhD portion (so about 25k). So far, I'm thinking it's prudent to ask the average amount of time it takes for students to finish their PhDs and how students maintain their clinical skills during the PhD portion. My apologies in advance if something like this has already been asked

 

[mtoboggan]

I'm headed to a second look tomorrow/Thursday - what questions should I ask the program? They're non-MSTP but do provide a tuition waiver for the MD and grad school portions and give a pre-doctoral stipend based on NRSA during the PhD portion (so about 25k). So far, I'm thinking it's prudent to ask the average amount of time it takes for students to finish their PhDs and how students maintain their clinical skills during the PhD portion. My apologies in advance if something like this has already been asked

Those are great questions to ask. You might want to ask about support resources - i.e. who do students turn to when they are struggling in anyway or who will advocate for you when you are in a not-so-ideal lab situation? I think the second look would also be a great time to gather more information about possible labs/PhD mentors you would be interested in working with.

I think another thing to look at is the "lifestyle" so to speak of the students. Since you will be committing to roughly 8 years of education in a single institution, you should ask yourself if you can really see yourself living in that city. Unless you've 100% fully committed to a particular program, I think you have the right and responsibility to really scrutinize the program as a whole and see if it would be a good fit. Sure, we learn a little bit about programs during interview days, but that is really only scratching the surface. The program is obviously very excited to be having you, so you should hopefully be able to feel the same way about the one you eventually commit to!

 

[TheDataKing]

Those are great questions to ask. You might want to ask about support resources - i.e. who do students turn to when they are struggling in anyway or who will advocate for you when you are in a not-so-ideal lab situation? I think the second look would also be a great time to gather more information about possible labs/PhD mentors you would be interested in working with.

I think another thing to look at is the "lifestyle" so to speak of the students. Since you will be committing to roughly 8 years of education in a single institution, you should ask yourself if you can really see yourself living in that city. Unless you've 100% fully committed to a particular program, I think you have the right and responsibility to really scrutinize the program as a whole and see if it would be a good fit. Sure, we learn a little bit about programs during interview days, but that is really only scratching the surface. The program is obviously very excited to be having you, so you should hopefully be able to feel the same way about the one you eventually commit to!

Thank you so much! That's super helpful and actually a question I wrote down before seeing this was " What do you do if your advisor leaves? What do you do/who do you turn to/what resources are available when things aren't looking up or to help you cope?" so we're on the same wavelength there. Apart from that, I also came up with the following:
1) If I want to do my lab rotations before M1 instead of in-between M1|M2, when do I need to finalize that/when do they start? And what would I do during the summer between M1|M2 in that case?
2) What percentage of grads are in academia? research? other?
3) What do students do other than study/lab work? Are there organized get-togethers for MD/PhD students?
4) What is the transition to clinical years like?

 

[CaliforniaAsian]

Thank you so much! That's super helpful and actually a question I wrote down before seeing this was " What do you do if your advisor leaves? What do you do/who do you turn to/what resources are available when things aren't looking up or to help you cope?" so we're on the same wavelength there. Apart from that, I also came up with the following:
1) If I want to do my lab rotations before M1 instead of in-between M1|M2, when do I need to finalize that/when do they start? And what would I do during the summer between M1|M2 in that case?
2) What percentage of grads are in academia? research? other?
3) What do students do other than study/lab work? Are there organized get-togethers for MD/PhD students?
4) What is the transition to clinical years like?

Maybe I can provide input on the first two questions as they are pretty generic.

1) Typically it’s very flexible and even required at some programs. You just tell them and they let you rotate early. You can do additional rotations or just stay in the same lab in subsequent summers.

2) The answer to this question may not be very helpful. It’s a very individual experience/decision to choose what path you want to continue your career, and institutional trend shouldn’t really affect your future prospects compared to the lab you join and the research you output.

 

[narla_hotep]

Those are all great questions! In response to your question about lab rotations, the answer to what to do between M1 and M2 is usually, do more lab rotations. A typical rotation is bare minimum 6 weeks, and usually 8-10. So if you do one before M1, and a second between M1-M2, then possibly a 3rd at the beginning of grad school, then you'd hopefully be set to join a lab without having to spend too much of your actual grad school time rotating. It puts you a good 6 months ahead of the curve compared to regular PhD student.

 

[TheDataKing]

Those are all great questions! In response to your question about lab rotations, the answer to what to do between M1 and M2 is usually, do more lab rotations. A typical rotation is bare minimum 6 weeks, and usually 8-10. So if you do one before M1, and a second between M1-M2, then possibly a 3rd at the beginning of grad school, then you'd hopefully be set to join a lab without having to spend too much of your actual grad school time rotating. It puts you a good 6 months ahead of the curve compared to regular PhD student.

so they require two 6 week lab rotations, so you can do both before M1. Does that mean I could potentially have the summer off between M1/M2?

 

[narla_hotep]

so they require two 6 week lab rotations, so you can do both before M1. Does that mean I could potentially have the summer off between M1/M2?

Perhaps, if after those two rotations you're confident about what lab you want to join. But it depends on your specific program's rules as well as how you like your first 2 rotations. Like for my program the rotation before M1 is optional, but it's required to do one between M1 and M2. But, you can still take a good chunk of the summer off for a vacation even if you do a rotation that summer, esp. if it's only required to be a 6 week rotation.

Oh, and I thought of a few potential questions to ask at second look. Since you're staying in that city for like 8 years, it's good to figure out what it would be like to actually live there on a student budget. Try to figure out what current students' housing situations are... Like where do they typically live in town, what is rent like, and does anyone buy a house/condo or is it all apartments?

 

[TheDataKing]

Perhaps, if after those two rotations you're confident about what lab you want to join. But it depends on your specific program's rules as well as how you like your first 2 rotations. Like for my program the rotation before M1 is optional, but it's required to do one between M1 and M2. But, you can still take a good chunk of the summer off for a vacation even if you do a rotation that summer, esp. if it's only required to be a 6 week rotation.

Oh, and I thought of a few potential questions to ask at second look. Try to figure out what current students' housing situations are... Like where do they typically live in town, what is rent like, and does anyone buy a house/condo or is it all apartments?

ooo good points. I've been looking at buying a house if I go there because it would work out to be cheaper overall than renting but I'll def ask the students what they do right now! Thank you!!

 

[totalpanda472]

Can someone willing to give an opinion on a weird admissions situation PM me? I'd be very grateful!

PM'd you!

 

[Birb]

been lurking on this thread - might be a dumb question but are the costs of attending MSTP second looks generally covered?

 

[Seihai]

been lurking on this thread - might be a dumb question but are the costs of attending MSTP second looks generally covered?

My acceptances have all offered to cover most, if not all, of my costs of going there.

 

[mdphd_applicant]

Should I submit a Letter of Intent? Currently sitting on a grand total of 0 acceptances, but just had a paper accepted and my fall GPA was a 4.0. Or should this just be an update?

 

[mdphd_to_be]

Should I submit a Letter of Intent? Currently sitting on a grand total of 0 acceptances, but just had a paper accepted and my fall GPA was a 4.0. Or should this just be an update?

You can incorporate interest in a particular program in a letter of update. Do you have a specific top choice program that you have already been interviewed at? If so, you can also send a letter of intent specifically saying you will be going there if you are accepted.

 

[FreeGibbs]

Generally, are second looks mandatory to go to? Or is it case-by-case I'm assuming.

 

[CaliforniaAsian]

Generally, are second looks mandatory to go to? Or is it case-by-case I'm assuming.

I don’t believe any second looks are mandatory. At least I’ve never heard of one. However, usually flights and hotels are covered, so it’s worth going if you have the time.

 

[FreeGibbs]

I don’t believe any second looks are mandatory. At least I’ve never heard of one. However, usually flights and hotels are covered, so it’s worth going if you have the time.

The school I was accepted to for MD/PhD was my former undergrad, so I have a good feel for the school/labs/PI's. However, it falls on my GF's and I's 5yr anniversary and we had prior plans in advance lmao. Might go anyway if I can change our plans

 

[Seihai]

The school I was accepted to for MD/PhD was my former undergrad, so I have a good feel for the school/labs/PI's. However, it falls on my GF's and I's 5yr anniversary and we had prior plans in advance lmao. Might go anyway if I can change our plans

If you already have a good feel for the school, a second look might be somewhat redundant.

 

[MSTPadvocate]

Not mandatory, but we've only had one student in the last 6 years matriculate without coming for revisit. Its very helpful to see who your classmates will be as 2/3 of those who come to revisit generally matriculate.

 

[neurofanatic213]

So far I’ve received 12 rejections and 0 invites. Still waiting to hear from 7 programs. One of which is University of Miami (my undergrad institution and my current employer where I do research at The Miami Project). Their process says that invites will be sent to those who are chosen by both MD and MD/PhD committees. My status currently says the MD/PhD committee has reviewed my application and no final decision has been made and it is currently under review by the MD committee. The last interview date is 2/14/2020. Is it time for me to give up hope and start focusing on next cycle?

 

[hellothere69420]

So far I’ve received 12 rejections and 0 invites. Still waiting to hear from 7 programs. One of which is University of Miami (my undergrad institution and my current employer where I do research at The Miami Project). Their process says that invites will be sent to those who are chosen by both MD and MD/PhD committees. My status currently says the MD/PhD committee has reviewed my application and no final decision has been made and it is currently under review by the MD committee. The last interview date is 2/14/2020. Is it time for me to give up hope and start focusing on next cycle?

I'm sorry you're in this position. In general, the advice is to always assume you are rejected and to keep working for next cycle until you have an acceptance in hand.

That being said, there's still a lot of time left for you to hear something. Don't lose hope, but still look towards applying again.

 

[Seihai]

So far I’ve received 12 rejections and 0 invites. Still waiting to hear from 7 programs. One of which is University of Miami (my undergrad institution and my current employer where I do research at The Miami Project). Their process says that invites will be sent to those who are chosen by both MD and MD/PhD committees. My status currently says the MD/PhD committee has reviewed my application and no final decision has been made and it is currently under review by the MD committee. The last interview date is 2/14/2020. Is it time for me to give up hope and start focusing on next cycle?

It depends on what the remaining 7 schools are, but I would be preparing to reapply if I were in your situation. What were your stats and where did you apply?

 

[FreeGibbs]

Hi, if I've finished interviews and have decided on my top choice school, is it okay to send a letter of intent? They haven't released admissions decisions yet, so I'm not sure if it's premature.

Not at all. Especially if you are completely done interviewing, and you know great certainty this is the school you want to go to. If anything, it'll help with deciding who they send acceptances too.

 

[bodybuilderdoc]

Does anyone have the secondary prompts for Miller (Miami) MSTP? Basically they said they would last minute change my application from MD to mstp but the prompts arent up anymore

 

[CaliforniaAsian]

So when asked in my top choice interview why I should be chosen over another applicant, I had to decide whether to go with my true feelings or to play the game. I told the truth because I feel strongly about this and said, "I don't think I necessarily deserve the spot over anyone else. Everyone I've met is impressive and wonderful." I'll update what happens to me when I find out in a few weeks. But if there's one thing I've learned from ~10 interviews on the trail, it's that you guys (MD/PhD applicants) are some of the most friendly and amazing people in the world.

 

[Maebea]

But if there's one thing I've learned from ~10 interviews on the trail, it's that you guys (MD/PhD applicants) are some of the most friendly and amazing people in the world.

Agreed! To be sure, there are some jerks, but the great majority of MD-PhD applicants are good people. Next to graduation day, interview and second-look days are the best days of the year.

 

[DannyTheDino]

Hey guys I’m currently in a pretty nightmarish job and am hoping to quit soon for the sake of my mental health— I am lucky that I have been accepted into a few programs already and I am just wondering if there are any contingencies for acceptance to a program that y’all know of that would make someone stay at their current job until matriculation or if it would be okay for me to quit by around the beginning of March or something? Thanks in advance for whatever y’all know!!!

 

[Fencer]

PM me to discuss... most likely, you will be able to quit, but it depends on circumstances.

 

[OHCA]

@Fencer Can we get a quick update on the cycle whenever you get a chance? Just wondering how many eventual MD/PhD candidates are still waiting on the first acceptance.

 

[Fencer]

Update on 2020 Cycle - as of 02/02/2020 (overnight sync to 2/3) - I have not been following up the data for the last month, and what a surprise....

This is the BEST result for each individual applicant (WA or AC is better than Active/Looking, which is better than Rejected - PW, PR, RJ).

	February 3, 2020
Total Applicants	1796 (+1)
Withdrawn Before Acceptance (WB)	25 (-6)
Rejected (Prelim Rj, Passive Withdrawal, RJ)	1115 (+156)
Active in the cycle (not rejected)	656 (-149) see comment
At least 1 MD/PhD Acceptance (AC, DF, WA)	425 (+106)
Defer to a later application cycle (DF)	0
Withdrawal After Acceptance (WA)	5 (+2)
Currently Accepted for MD/PhD (AC)	420 (+104)
Seeking a position (NA, HO, RS, AL, IN)	236 (-250)

For the 2019 matriculation cycle, we ended up with 803 applicants receiving at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance, and 708 first-year MD/PhD matriculants. Therefore, less than 53% of the eventual applicants who will be given at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance have received a MD/PhD acceptance - which means that >47% of eventually MD/PhD accepted applicants in 2020 are still waiting for their first MD/PhD acceptance. Furthermore, a total of 656 active participants is well BELOW our need of ~800 accepted MD/PhD applicants. This might be an unintended consequence of our traffic rules. I suspect that when the CYMS webportal opens in Feb. 19, some programs will see the following day that their roster of accepted students is not as secure as they think they have it. Programs will be considering to reverse some of the rejections in the system (applicants might not be have been notified of their rejections after interviews as of yet). The next few weeks will be very stressful for applicants with no MD/PhD acceptances but truly cheer up, the data shows that it is an interviewed applicant market. This is like real estate markets (sellers vs buyers markets), the group who will be soon very stressed up about potentially not filling up their slots will the MD/PhD directors. I had not anticipated this...

 

[deleted993768]

@Fencer Do you think the new traffic rules are also why some schools have stopped doing a winter release and just do a big one in the spring? 2 of my schools didn't do a winter release, but I figured they would since they did it last year when the traffic rules were updated.

 

[Fencer]

I don't know what is going on in other MD/PhD program director's (PDs) minds, but I will learn what happened until July & September when we meet (and perhaps, lament). It will be too late to be informative to you. It might be that PDs read the message that there was no significant difference between the 2018 vs 2019 cycles, and they reverted to old habits without realizing that in 2019, we (PDs) were running scared and we were very conservative in our actions, perhaps diminishing the effects of the traffic rules. As I said, there will be a wake up call if these stats are real and hold up. Over the past 4 weeks, there was a steady movement from Active in the cycle to other actions; for every 2 people removed from Active, 1 was Rejected & 1 was Accepted. It means that accepted students will have more choices, and some who interviewed (but not yet accepted) might get surprised phone calls. I expect no significant changes until after CYMS opens for a week, to give time for programs/committees to react.

 

[CaliforniaAsian]

I don't know what is going on in other MD/PhD program director's (PDs) minds, but I will learn what happened until July & September when we meet (and perhaps, lament). It will be too late to be informative to you. It might be that PDs read the message that there was no significant difference between the 2018 vs 2019 cycles, and they reverted to old habits without realizing that in 2019, we (PDs) were running scared and we were very conservative in our actions, perhaps diminishing the effects of the traffic rules. As I said, there will be a wake up call if these stats are real and hold up. Over the past 4 weeks, there was a steady movement from Active in the cycle to other actions; for every 2 people removed from Active, 1 was Rejected & 1 was Accepted. It means that accepted students will have more choices, and some who interviewed (but not yet accepted) might get surprised phone calls. I expect no significant changes until after CYMS opens for a week, to give time for programs/committees to react.

Thank you for the update. As someone with no acceptances yet because decisions haven't even been released yet, it does put my mind somewhat at ease knowing that there may be more spots than active applicants. May I ask, would there be a reason these stats aren't real, and has this situation occurred in the past?

 

[OHCA]

Update on 2020 Cycle - as of 02/02/2020 (overnight sync to 2/3) - I have not been following up the data for the last month, and what a surprise....

This is the BEST result for each individual applicant (WA or AC is better than Active/Looking, which is better than Rejected - PW, PR, RJ).

	February 3, 2020
Total Applicants	1796 (+1)
Withdrawn Before Acceptance (WB)	25 (-6)
Rejected (Prelim Rj, Passive Withdrawal, RJ)	1115 (+156)
Active in the cycle (not rejected)	656 (-149) see comment
At least 1 MD/PhD Acceptance (AC, DF, WA)	425 (+106)
Defer to a later application cycle (DF)	0
Withdrawal After Acceptance (WA)	5 (+2)
Currently Accepted for MD/PhD (AC)	420 (+104)
Seeking a position (NA, HO, RS, AL, IN)	236 (-250)

For the 2019 matriculation cycle, we ended up with 803 applicants receiving at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance, and 708 first-year MD/PhD matriculants. Therefore, less than 53% of the eventual applicants who will be given at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance have received a MD/PhD acceptance - which means that >47% of eventually MD/PhD accepted applicants in 2020 are still waiting for their first MD/PhD acceptance. Furthermore, a total of 656 active participants is well BELOW our need of ~800 accepted MD/PhD applicants. This might be an unintended consequence of our traffic rules. I suspect that when the CYMS webportal opens in Feb. 19, some programs will see the following day that their roster of accepted students is not as secure as they think they have it. Programs will be considering to reverse some of the rejections in the system (applicants might not be have been notified of their rejections after interviews as of yet). The next few weeks will be very stressful for applicants with no MD/PhD acceptances but truly cheer up, the data shows that it is an interviewed applicant market. This is like real estate markets (sellers vs buyers markets), the group who will be soon very stressed up about potentially not filling up their slots will the MD/PhD directors. I had not anticipated this...

Thank you for sharing this! Just to clarify here, the 'Active in the cycle' group are those who remain under consideration in at least 1 school, correct? Would this mean that there are 1140 applicants (1796-656) who have been rejected from all MD/PhD programs that they have applied to? I hope I understand this, these really seem to be some shocking numbers here.

 

[mtoboggan]

Thank you for sharing this! Just to clarify here, the 'Active in the cycle' group are those who remain under consideration in at least 1 school, correct? Would this mean that there are 1140 applicants (1796-656) who have been rejected from all MD/PhD programs that they have applied to? I hope I understand this, these really seem to be some shocking numbers here.

I believe that is the case since the stats Fencer posted represent the best possible outcome for the individual applicant. The actual number seems to be 1115 applicants rejected from all MD/PhD programs they applied to

 

[Fencer]

I can't comment more. Data is data. I will be asking as to whether there have been any changes in data collection (always a possibility). In prior years, I have seen people flow from the rejected pool to alternate to accept, but in the past 10 years or so, it has been by only a dozen or two, not this magnitude.

 

[drdreyman]

Do we have any data on how many interviews MD/PhD matriculants received? Looking for some consolation...or perhaps disappointment.

 

[Fencer]

No... unfortunately, our community doesn't use the Interview status consistently.

 

[deleted986196]

Update on 2020 Cycle - as of 02/02/2020 (overnight sync to 2/3) - I have not been following up the data for the last month, and what a surprise....

This is the BEST result for each individual applicant (WA or AC is better than Active/Looking, which is better than Rejected - PW, PR, RJ).

	February 3, 2020
Total Applicants	1796 (+1)
Withdrawn Before Acceptance (WB)	25 (-6)
Rejected (Prelim Rj, Passive Withdrawal, RJ)	1115 (+156)
Active in the cycle (not rejected)	656 (-149) see comment
At least 1 MD/PhD Acceptance (AC, DF, WA)	425 (+106)
Defer to a later application cycle (DF)	0
Withdrawal After Acceptance (WA)	5 (+2)
Currently Accepted for MD/PhD (AC)	420 (+104)
Seeking a position (NA, HO, RS, AL, IN)	236 (-250)

For the 2019 matriculation cycle, we ended up with 803 applicants receiving at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance, and 708 first-year MD/PhD matriculants. Therefore, less than 53% of the eventual applicants who will be given at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance have received a MD/PhD acceptance - which means that >47% of eventually MD/PhD accepted applicants in 2020 are still waiting for their first MD/PhD acceptance. Furthermore, a total of 656 active participants is well BELOW our need of ~800 accepted MD/PhD applicants. This might be an unintended consequence of our traffic rules. I suspect that when the CYMS webportal opens in Feb. 19, some programs will see the following day that their roster of accepted students is not as secure as they think they have it. Programs will be considering to reverse some of the rejections in the system (applicants might not be have been notified of their rejections after interviews as of yet). The next few weeks will be very stressful for applicants with no MD/PhD acceptances but truly cheer up, the data shows that it is an interviewed applicant market. This is like real estate markets (sellers vs buyers markets), the group who will be soon very stressed up about potentially not filling up their slots will the MD/PhD directors. I had not anticipated this...

I guess the vast majority of the 150 missing people are ones that have been "rejected" post interview but not yet notified of it? Is the label pretty fluid until the email is actually sent?

 

[neuronal123]

Does this mean we should expect more significant WL movement? If so, is this likely to happen earlier in the year?

 

[Fencer]

Does this mean we should expect more significant WL movement? If so, is this likely to happen earlier in the year?

I believe so... unfortunately, awareness of the situation from PDs/AdComs would not happen until 1-2 weeks after Feb. 19. We will need to wait.

 

[Cherry1997]

I don't know what is going on in other MD/PhD program director's (PDs) minds, but I will learn what happened until July & September when we meet (and perhaps, lament). It will be too late to be informative to you. It might be that PDs read the message that there was no significant difference between the 2018 vs 2019 cycles, and they reverted to old habits without realizing that in 2019, we (PDs) were running scared and we were very conservative in our actions, perhaps diminishing the effects of the traffic rules. As I said, there will be a wake up call if these stats are real and hold up. Over the past 4 weeks, there was a steady movement from Active in the cycle to other actions; for every 2 people removed from Active, 1 was Rejected & 1 was Accepted. It means that accepted students will have more choices, and some who interviewed (but not yet accepted) might get surprised phone calls. I expect no significant changes until after CYMS opens for a week, to give time for programs/committees to react.

Hi I’m curious what information does CYMS provide? Are they able to see all the acceptances we are holding or how does this change things?

 

[Maebea]

Hi I’m curious what information does CYMS provide? Are they able to see all the acceptances we are holding or how does this change things?

The information is quite limited. Beginning Feb 19 programs will be able to run a report to see the aggregate number of individuals who have selected "Plan to Enroll" for their school and the number who have selected "Plan to Enroll" for other schools. There are no names attached to these numbers; we will only know that, a total of 4 individuals have selected plan to enroll for our school, and 3 have selected plan to enroll for another school. On April 30, we will be able to see names and statuses of all individuals who are holding acceptances at our school.

Prior to the 2019 cycle, we could see all the current acceptances of those individuals holding acceptances at our program beginning in mid-February. This allowed us to make an assessment of the likely yield of those holding acceptances, and perhaps make additional offers before May 1. For instance, if I saw that an applicant was holding an acceptance at a school that might be more desirable to them personally due to location, research fit, prestige, etc., I might decide to pull someone off the waitlist at the beginning of March, rather than wait until I get a decline email on May 1. The waitlist grows stale quickly, and someone who might have been willing dump Fencer's program for mine in February might get tired of waiting and decline our offer after May 1. That happened to us last year (though not with Fencer's program). We had an applicant that I spoke with 2-3 times a week throughout the month of April. He was in another program, but really wanted to come here. We were oversubscribed, but I told him that we almost always took someone off the waitlist. On May 1 I told him that several applicants still had multiple "Plan to Enroll" statuses, and there was a good chance we would be going to the waitlist. However, he decided that he could no longer wait, and committed to the other program on May 2.

 

[Fencer]

What we get is an aggregate number of other acceptances as long as you have 5 or more accepted applicants. For some areas, the threshold is 10 accepted applicants. However, if I know that out of my 10 accepted applicants, 8 of them have 3 or more acceptances and only 4 people who plan to enroll at Fencer's MSTP, I might extend 3 or 4 additional acceptances for my 7 slots. In contrast, if out of my 10 accepted applicants, 6 are planning on coming and only a couple have multiple acceptances, I would be more conservative. Once again, this is in aggregate. We don't have individual information until May 1.

 

[Cherry1997]

The information is quite limited. Beginning Feb 19 programs will be able to run a report to see the aggregate number of individuals who have selected "Plan to Enroll" for their school and the number who have selected "Plan to Enroll" for other schools. There are no names attached to these numbers; we will only know that, a total of 4 individuals have selected plan to enroll for our school, and 3 have selected plan to enroll for another school. On April 30, we will be able to see names and statuses of all individuals who are holding acceptances at our school.

Prior to the 2019 cycle, we could see all the current acceptances of those individuals holding acceptances at our program beginning in mid-February. This allowed us to make an assessment of the likely yield of those holding acceptances, and perhaps make additional offers before May 1. For instance, if I saw that an applicant was holding an acceptance at a school that might be more desirable to them personally due to location, research fit, prestige, etc., I might decide to pull someone off the waitlist at the beginning of March, rather than wait until I get a decline email on May 1. The waitlist grows stale quickly, and someone who might have been willing dump Fencer's program for mine in February might get tired of waiting and decline our offer after May 1. That happened to us last year (though not with Fencer's program). We had an applicant that I spoke with 2-3 times a week throughout the month of April. He was in another program, but really wanted to come here. We were oversubscribed, but I told him that we almost always took someone off the waitlist. On May 1 I told him that several applicants still had multiple "Plan to Enroll" statuses, and there was a good chance we would be going to the waitlist. However, he decided that he could no longer wait, and committed to the other program on May 2.

What we get is an aggregate number of other acceptances as long as you have 5 or more accepted applicants. For some areas, the threshold is 10 accepted applicants. However, if I know that out of my 10 accepted applicants, 8 of them have 3 or more acceptances and only 4 people who plan to enroll at Fencer's MSTP, I might extend 3 or 4 additional acceptances for my 7 slots. In contrast, if out of my 10 accepted applicants, 6 are planning on coming and only a couple have multiple acceptances, I would be more conservative. Once again, this is in aggregate. We don't have individual information until May 1.

Thank you both so much! That is helpful to know!