24 MCAT, otherwise strong application

[Leelah]

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Hi everyone,

I took the MCAT right after college and got a 28. Some time passed, and I had to retake. I got a 24R (very surprising, after consistently getting 29, 30 on the practice exams). It's been a while since I took the science classes, so studying is really a b*tch for me, and I do not want to take it again. Plus, I'm in graduate school full-time and work-part time.

Am I being unrealistic in thinking that I might get in (to SUNY Upstate, early decision), given that my application is otherwise very strong?

• I was an honors student in college (Syracuse),
• volunteered in hospitals and an AIDS clinic,
• worked as a pharmacy technician,
• am an EMT,
• taught physically disabled kids in China for two years,
• am currently getting my masters in public health at the number one public health school in the country,
• am doing my internship at the number one hospital in the country,
• and am a NY state resident.

I'd retake if I thought I'd score higher, but I'm not confident that I will. Will the ADCOM even look at my application?

Sorry if I sound really snobby. I probably am a little. But I really feel like I'd be a great doctor and that I deserve to get into medical school.

Thank you for your time and honest appraisal.

 

[Domino2178]

.

 

[Leelah]

Thank you for this great advice. However I just looked into signing up for a review class and they all end in late July/August, which would not give me enough time to apply early decision to Upstate.

Should I take the Kaplan class, take the MCAT in August, and apply regular decision? Or retake it on my own (dammit), and apply early decision? After getting a 24, my confidence in my ability to do well on my own has diminished. SIGH. I'm kind of thinking out loud here.

Looking forward to other ideas. Thanks folks!

 

[Temperature101]

Thank you for this great advice. However I just looked into signing up for a review class and they all end in late July/August, which would not give me enough time to apply early decision to Upstate.

Should I take the Kaplan class, take the MCAT in August, and apply regular decision? Or retake it on my own (dammit), and apply early decision? After getting a 24, my confidence in my ability to do well on my own has diminished. SIGH. I'm kind of thinking out loud here.

Looking forward to other ideas. Thanks folks!

Previous poster asked you if you are open to DO...If not, you will have to study on your own for a retake...24 is not going to do it for MD.

 

[Leelah]

Previous poster asked you if you are open to DO...If not, you will have to study on your own for a retake...24 is not going to do it for MD.

I am not, mostly because I just want to go to Upstate and Upstate is not a DO school.

So should I retake on my own and apply early decision OR take a Kaplan course and apply regular decision?

That is the question.... I guess.

Many thanks.

 

[deTcort]

Just a newbie but I attend a SUNY school a short drive from Upstate and know friends that have gotten in so here is my take? Are you a member of a minority group which has historically been underrepresented in medicine? If you are, then with a solid GPA, I think you could have a shot at that school. If not, I think it is most likely impossible. What is your GPA if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Textbookversion]

I am not, mostly because I just want to go to Upstate and Upstate is not a DO school.

So should I retake on my own and apply early decision OR take a Kaplan course and apply regular decision?

That is the question.... I guess.

Many thanks.

24 is a stretch for DO schools, let alone a US MD school. You need to take a course, retake the MCAT and have a new score back before you apply. A 24 is an incredibly bad score. I think most people who get admitted would score higher than that on their diagnostic before they even touch any study material.

 

[deTcort]

Sorry if I sound really snobby. I probably am a little. But I really feel like I'd be a great doctor and that I deserve to get into medical school.

Also, just a heads up, but this came off as a bit arrogant. If you want to be a doctor and are not eager to attend a DO school, then you should probably reconsider statements like this if you ever end up applying to one. It's a privilege to attend med school, and there are many deserving applicants with less than perfect stats who get rejected every year, including from Upstate. Putting your hopes in one school via early decision if the stats don't merit it would be arrogant.

 

[Leelah]

Also, just a heads up, but this came off as a bit arrogant. If you want to be a doctor and are not eager to attend a DO school, then you should probably reconsider statements like this if you ever end up applying to one. It's a privilege to attend med school, and there are many deserving applicants with less than perfect stats who get rejected every year, including from Upstate. Putting your hopes in one school via early decision if the stats don't merit it would be arrogant.

I don't disagree. Thank you for bringing me back to reality.

 

[Leelah]

24 is a stretch for DO schools, let alone a US MD school. You need to take a course, retake the MCAT and have a new score back before you apply. A 24 is a incredibly bad score. I think most people who get admitted would score higher than that on their diagnostic before they even touch any study material.

I don't know that "incredibly bad" was really necessary. Thanks anyway.

 

[Leelah]

Just a newbie but I attend a SUNY school a short drive from Upstate and know friends that have gotten in so here is my take? Are you a member of a minority group which has historically been underrepresented in medicine? If you are, then with a solid GPA, I think you could have a shot at that school. If not, I think it is most likely impossible. What is your GPA if you don't mind me asking?

Thanks for your encouragement. But I'm not a minority student. My cumulative GPA is 3.6. My science GPA is fairly low at 3.2. Thank you again and best wishes.

 

[Leelah]

I think that what I will do is take a review course this summer and apply regular decision.

You all have been extremely helpful and I thank you for your time. I know that I am in a privileged position to be able to take a review course, and that going to medical school is a privilege as well. Best wishes to everyone.

 

[deTcort]

I don't know that "incredibly bad" was really necessary. Thanks anyway.

No you're right, that was gratuitous and unnecessary. I didn't like your first post but that was just insulting. A 25 is roughly the average score for all testtakers each year from what I have seen, and many DO applicants as well as members of underrepresented groups get in with scores in the mid 20s every year. They don't deserve to be slurred. Best of luck with whatever you decide, and if you think you can get at least a 30 I would retake. A score in the low 30s with a decent GPA would put you in good stead.

 

[LaughingMan]

I think that what I will do is take a review course this summer and apply regular decision.

You all have been extremely helpful and I thank you for your time. I know that I am in a privileged position to be able to take a review course, and that going to medical school is a privilege as well. Best wishes to everyone.

Slow down Leelah-

Have you looked at the famous Sn2 Method here on SDN?

Lots of people swear by it. I personally didn't like TBR, but it works for many. I'd look into that before dropping 2k on a prep course.

 

[Goro]

With that MCAT score, you now have no chance for any MD school (the avg MCAT for SUNY upstate is 32, so you're well below avg, even with a 28). Their avg cGPA AND sGPA is 3.7.

You might have a shot at some DO programs. If your MCAT score has expired though, you have an uphill battle, but not an impossible one. Think about LECOM, Touro-NY and NYCOM...they're pretty close to where you want to be.

If DO is not an option for you, then an MCAT prep course is called for, and you will need to get >32, to balance out that 24.

Hi everyone,

I took the MCAT right after college and got a 28. Some time passed, and I had to retake. I got a 24R (very surprising, after consistently getting 29, 30 on the practice exams). It's been a while since I took the science classes, so studying is really a b*tch for me, and I do not want to take it again. Plus, I'm in graduate school full-time and work-part time.

Am I being unrealistic in thinking that I might get in (to SUNY Upstate, early decision), given that my application is otherwise very strong?

• I was an honors student in college (Syracuse),
• volunteered in hospitals and an AIDS clinic,
• worked as a pharmacy technician,
• am an EMT,
• taught physically disabled kids in China for two years,
• am currently getting my masters in public health at the number one public health school in the country,
• am doing my internship at the number one hospital in the country,
• and am a NY state resident.

I'd retake if I thought I'd score higher, but I'm not confident that I will. Will the ADCOM even look at my application?

Sorry if I sound really snobby. I probably am a little. But I really feel like I'd be a great doctor and that I deserve to get into medical school.

Thank you for your time and honest appraisal.

 

[deleted127837]

Hi everyone,

I took the MCAT right after college and got a 28. Some time passed, and I had to retake. I got a 24R (very surprising, after consistently getting 29, 30 on the practice exams). It's been a while since I took the science classes, so studying is really a b*tch for me, and I do not want to take it again. Plus, I'm in graduate school full-time and work-part time.

Am I being unrealistic in thinking that I might get in (to SUNY Upstate, early decision), given that my application is otherwise very strong?

• I was an honors student in college (Syracuse),
• volunteered in hospitals and an AIDS clinic,
• worked as a pharmacy technician,
• am an EMT,
• taught physically disabled kids in China for two years,
• am currently getting my masters in public health at the number one public health school in the country,
• am doing my internship at the number one hospital in the country,
• and am a NY state resident.

I'd retake if I thought I'd score higher, but I'm not confident that I will. Will the ADCOM even look at my application?

Sorry if I sound really snobby. I probably am a little. But I really feel like I'd be a great doctor and that I deserve to get into medical school.

Thank you for your time and honest appraisal.

You're not very competitive for DO schools, much less MD schools. The MCAT correlates to Step performance, and your MCAT tells them that you probably won't pass Step 1. Connections to Hopkins are for the most part irrelevant here, esp. since you're not applying to Hopkins.

 

[Leelah]

You're not very competitive for DO schools

I just don't think this is true. Sorry. Thanks though -- I appreciate your comments.

 

[Leelah]

With that MCAT score, you now have no chance for any MD school (the avg MCAT for SUNY upstate is 32, so you're well below avg, even with a 28). Their avg cGPA AND sGPA is 3.7.

You might have a shot at some DO programs. If your MCAT score has expired though, you have an uphill battle, but not an impossible one. Think about LECOM, Touro-NY and NYCOM...they're pretty close to where you want to be.

If DO is not an option for you, then an MCAT prep course is called for, and you will need to get >32, to balance out that 24.

Thanks very much. I'll most likely do both of the things you suggest.

 

[Leelah]

Slow down Leelah-

Have you looked at the famous Sn2 Method here on SDN?

Lots of people swear by it. I personally didn't like TBR, but it works for many. I'd look into that before dropping 2k on a prep course.

Very interesting.... thanks for this.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I just don't think this is true.

You're wrong. And the title of this thread is an oxymoron. You need MCAT rehab stat. There isn't an EC strong enough to take the edge off that 24. Sorry.

 

[Leelah]

You're wrong. And the title of this thread is an oxymoron. You need MCAT rehab stat. There isn't an EC strong enough to take the edge off that 24. Sorry.

Haha, thanks. I know you are right on.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I'll chip in here since my girlfriend attended SUNY Upstate. She had a very impressive resume (4.0 GPA from Columbia, extensive work experience at Stanford etc. etc.). After she was rejected from every school she applied to first cycle, she contacted them and asked why she was rejected. Every single school that got back to her came back with one universal answer: your 26 MCAT score scared us away (she was not open to DO so only applied MD).

She buckled down, studied hard, scored in the mid-30s and had multiple acceptances (4 or so out of 12-15 schools applied to) the next year (she attended Upstate since she's from the area and couldn't turn down the in-state tuition). The ONLY change in her application was a 26 to a 34 on the MCAT (and one more year of work experience obviously).

Moral of the story: Your MCAT is too low. Work on it and you'll do well.

 

[Leelah]

I'll chip in here since my girlfriend attended SUNY Upstate. She had a very impressive resume (4.0 GPA from Columbia, extensive work experience at Stanford etc. etc.). After she was rejected from every school she applied to first cycle, she contacted them and asked why she was rejected. Every single school that got back to her came back with one universal answer: your 26 MCAT score scared us away (she was not open to DO so only applied MD).

She buckled down, studied hard, scored in the mid-30s and had multiple acceptances (4 or so out of 12-15 schools applied to) the next year (she attended Upstate since she's from the area and couldn't turn down the in-state tuition). The ONLY change in her application was a 26 to a 34 on the MCAT (and one more year of work experience obviously).

Moral of the story: Your MCAT is too low. Work on it and you'll do well.

Encouraging. Thank you for sharing her story.

 

[mcloaf]

I'm not familiar with Upstate's average stats, but a 3.2 sGPA is going to make things much tougher there or at any other med school. You'll have a lot riding on the MCAT retake.

 

[deTcort]

the avg MCAT for SUNY upstate is 32, so you're well below avg, even with a 28). Their avg cGPA AND sGPA is 3.7.

I inquired with them a few weeks ago and they said that their avg matriculant MCAT is 31 with a sGPA of 3.6 and overall GPA of just under 3.7. I think you might be quoting the MSAR stats which are accepted student averages and not matriculant averages.

 

[user3]

I would just go DO. Even with a 32 MCAT, that 3.2 sgpa will really limit your opportunities. Coupled with the 28 and 24, you really face an uphill battle, unless you score 33-34+. You should be able to get into the lower tier DO schools, like WCU, WVSOM, ACOM, MUCOM, CUSOM, and LMU.

 

[wattupdoc]

Everyone else is so discouraging. You CAN get into an MD school with a 24 MCAT. I have a friend who got into an MD school who had a 24 mcat and pretty similar to you in other regards. Of course this is just one example and it will still be very tough, but not impossible.

 

[AdrianVeidt]

lol people on this forum are so ridiculous. Impossible, really?

almost 5000 people got accepted with a 24-26 MCAT from 2010-2012

 

[wattupdoc]

lol people on this forum are so ridiculous. Impossible, really?

almost 5000 people got accepted with a 24-26 MCAT from 2010-2012

I know. Everyone was stating that without 30+ your chances are small. I was Just making a point that if they applied broadly they could still have a shot.

 

[gyngyn]

lol people on this forum are so ridiculous. Impossible, really?

almost 5000 people got accepted with a 24-26 MCAT from 2010-2012

But not Early Decision with gpa and MCAT below the 10th percentile at one particular school!

 

[as1212559]

I just don't think this is true. Sorry. Thanks though -- I appreciate your comments.

3.6c/3.2s/24 is not a very competitive file for DO schools, though you could get into one with those scores. You need a much higher MCAT if you want to be selective.

 

[Goro]

Those are mostly URMs, or "specials/legacies.", i.e., people related to faculty, alumni, Deans or Administrators, or came with a large donation check. And those 5000 are out of what, some 60000 for the same time period? So that's a success rate of ~8%...not very encouraging.

lol people on this forum are so ridiculous. Impossible, really?

almost 5000 people got accepted with a 24-26 MCAT from 2010-2012

 

[deTcort]

lol people on this forum are so ridiculous. Impossible, really?

almost 5000 people got accepted with a 24-26 MCAT from 2010-2012

More than 30% of these people were URMs according to the specific grids. Then you must also consider that many of them are people who are residents of states with less competitive medical schools, like Mississippi, Georgia, and Louisuana. The original poster is from NY, which is a rather competitive state for applicants. Considering the fact that an applicant's best chance of admission is almost always at one of their state schools, I think you're overestimating.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

lol people on this forum are so ridiculous. Impossible, really?

almost 5000 people got accepted with a 24-26 MCAT from 2010-2012

Lol people on this forum comprehending the concept of odds.

 

[clar0780]

24 is a stretch for DO schools, let alone a US MD school. You need to take a course, retake the MCAT and have a new score back before you apply. A 24 is an incredibly bad score. I think most people who get admitted would score higher than that on their diagnostic before they even touch any study material.

Dude, you sound like a complete dick. I can't imagine talking to a complete stranger that way... Let alone someone looking for constructive advice.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Dude, you sound like a complete dick. I can't imagine talking to a complete stranger that way... Let alone someone looking for constructive advice.

Psych student gets lost, wanders into premed allo and sees what a hive of neuroticism and cluster B's we are, and wisely scurries off. Also, cognitive dissonance. Read your first two sentences slowly, twice.

 

[Textbookversion]

Dude, you sound like a complete dick. I can't imagine talking to a complete stranger that way... Let alone someone looking for constructive advice.

Reality is the dick. What I said was true, and the nicer way of saying it. You don't want to hear the mean way.

Medicine is not for the faint of heart.

 

[AdrianVeidt]

you guys are real debbie downers. And completely lacking of empathy.

Upstate has MCAT ranging from 28-37 for acceptances. Everyone knows those numbers are already inflated and not for actual matriculates. Let's go ahead and run with it though. If 28 is the 10th percentile, that means 10% of students scored lower than that. Out of an class of 156, 15 people got in with MCATs =<27. OP is an instate resident and has some very impressive things on his application. With number of matriculants expected to increase next year, I don't see why it's impossible for OP to be one of those few. Go for it.

Plus we don't know how long it's been since that 28 score. If it's within 3 years (I think) then schools will see that score as well.

Those are mostly URMs, or "specials/legacies.", i.e., people related to faculty, alumni, Deans or Administrators, or came with a large donation check. And those 5000 are out of what, some 60000 for the same time period? So that's a success rate of ~8%...not very encouraging.

Those 5000 are from right under 20k, so almost 25% success rate. I'll bite on your URM argument but legacies, nah I'm not biting on that. No way to know, so why assume that is the way it is?

More than 30% of these people were URMs according to the specific grids. Then you must also consider that many of them are people who are residents of states with less competitive medical schools, like Mississippi, Georgia, and Louisuana. The original poster is from NY, which is a rather competitive state for applicants. Considering the fact that an applicant's best chance of admission is almost always at one of their state schools, I think you're overestimating.

Once again, URM I'll bite. But no way can you say that the majority of 5000 acceptances came from the south. Doesn't statistically add up.

Lol people on this forum comprehending the concept of odds.

As do I. Impossible means not possible. As in 0% odds.

 

[clar0780]

Psych student gets lost, wanders into premed allo and sees what a hive of neuroticism and cluster B's we are, and wisely scurries off. Also, cognitive dissonance. Read your first two sentences slowly, twice.

I didn't get lost. My girlfriend is contemplating medicine so I wanted to check out this section of the site. The post that I responded to (you know... not yours) caught my eye. But what do I know, I am but a lowly psych student.

 

[as1212559]

This can't be real tea...

Stop arguing. A 24 is not competitive for MD schools at all, and is only marginally competitive at DO schools. Period. Couple that with the OP's GPAs and desire to attend one particular school and it is clear that he/she should retake. No need to be a-holes about it, but it is the truth.

 

[gophermed]

OP,

stats are not everything. When I was applying this year I thought that I had no shot of getting in with a 7 on verbal. But the rest of my application made up for it (i.e. extracurriculars). I got into and MD school out of state.

 

[Textbookversion]

OP,

stats are not everything. When I was applying this year I thought that I had no shot of getting in with a 7 on verbal. But the rest of my application made up for it (i.e. extracurriculars). I got into and MD school out of state.

What was your total MCAT score and GPA? There is no point in encouraging someone to blow thousands on trying to get in when the money is just going to go to waste unless they retake the MCAT.

If the OP had a 3.9 GPA and a 24 MCAT there might be a chance somewhere (like DO) but really bad GPA, bad MCAT, good luck.

 

[gophermed]

good point. I had a 2nine MCAT, 3.nine5 GPA. so my situation is a little different. i was just saying that my extracurriculars made up for my 7 in verbal and overall low MCAT

 

[Pons Asinorum]

OP,

stats are not everything. When I was applying this year I thought that I had no shot of getting in with a 7 on verbal. But the rest of my application made up for it (i.e. extracurriculars). I got into and MD school out of state.

You also made a 29 on your MCAT total, even with the VR 7. You are comparing apples to oranges here. 29 and 24 aren't in the same ballpark, they aren't even the same sport.

 

[gtbROX]

The average MCAT score for people accepted to M.D. schools is roughly 30-31.

On a side note, I've actually heard from some med students and ADCOM people that working as a pharm tech either does not help or is detrimental to your application since it makes you look like someone wavering between pharm and med school. I would leave it out of my med school app since you already have a lot of extracurriculurs anyways.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

good point. I had a 27 MCAT, 3.95 GPA. so my situation is a little different. i was just saying that my extracurriculars made up for my 7 in verbal and overall low MCAT

Confused. You posted this in one of the school-specific threads.

I got a 29 on my MCAT, with a 7 in verbal and I got in. numbers are not everything

 

[gophermed]

wow. you are on top of things. i got a 2nine... the nine key is broke right now on my computer.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

wow. you are on top of things. i got a 2nine... the nine key is broke right now on my computer.

No worries. 29 is also pretty different from 27. Not trying to be a dick, but as others have pointed out, the OP wants to go to basically one MD-only program, in an applicant-overloaded state, with a bad GPA and a terrible MCAT score. Unless her first EC is being the worlds best daughter to the world's greatest Dean of Admissions, not going to happen. It's not evil to point that out; most of the people who do it actually think they're doing right by the OP to say hey, danger here.

 

[JBOB]

you guys are real debbie downers. And completely lacking of empathy.

Upstate has MCAT ranging from 28-37 for acceptances. Everyone knows those numbers are already inflated and not for actual matriculates. Let's go ahead and run with it though. If 28 is the 10th percentile, that means 10% of students scored lower than that. Out of an class of 156, 15 people got in with MCATs =<27. OP is an instate resident and has some very impressive things on his application. With number of matriculants expected to increase next year, I don't see why it's impossible for OP to be one of those few. Go for it.

Plus we don't know how long it's been since that 28 score. If it's within 3 years (I think) then schools will see that score as well.



Those 5000 are from right under 20k, so almost 25% success rate. I'll bite on your URM argument but legacies, nah I'm not biting on that. No way to know, so why assume that is the way it is?



Once again, URM I'll bite. But no way can you say that the majority of 5000 acceptances came from the south. Doesn't statistically add up.



As do I. Impossible means not possible. As in 0% odds.

Not saying I disagree with you, but I think you need to review your statistics terms.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I'm very familiar with Upstate (gf went there), I basically spent most of the last 4 yrs between there and CA and I met with the admissions director there (since I though I'd apply there while my gf was there). Also, almost all current residents I know went to Upstate for medical school.

I agree with ALL the poster that said a 24 to Upstate is impossible. There is no virtually no chance (you really need to review stats based on below, but that's another story... a less than 10% chance is not good, and the difference between 27 and 24 is large). That's what the folks at Upstate told me gf about her 26 (4.0 from Columbia, cum laude etc.). She applied again with a higher MCAT score and got in. Her story is pretty common among other folks at Upstate.

Few things you clearly don't know about Upstate:
- Upstate only gives very slight preference to in-state for admission. That's right, they don't have a very strong NY bias (like University of New Mexico does for people from NM or North Dakota does for ND).
- They get quite a few URM applicants and their stats aren't low. The few URMs that I know that went to Upstate have scores around 28-30.

Why WASTE a lot of money to apply to a school where the OP is two standard deviations below the average. There is one fix you need to make to an otherwise good application. Why not make it?

Again, I know more about Upstate than any other medical school, but there are folks that know more than me. Call them and ask if it's even worth applying. They'll give you an honest answer:

Contact: Office of Student Admissions
Phone: 315 464-4570
Location: 1215 Weiskotten Hall
766 Irving Avenue
Syracuse, NY 13210
Email: [email protected]

you guys are real debbie downers. And completely lacking of empathy.

Upstate has MCAT ranging from 28-37 for acceptances. Everyone knows those numbers are already inflated and not for actual matriculates. Let's go ahead and run with it though. If 28 is the 10th percentile, that means 10% of students scored lower than that. Out of an class of 156, 15 people got in with MCATs =<27. OP is an instate resident and has some very impressive things on his application. With number of matriculants expected to increase next year, I don't see why it's impossible for OP to be one of those few. Go for it.

Plus we don't know how long it's been since that 28 score. If it's within 3 years (I think) then schools will see that score as well.

Those 5000 are from right under 20k, so almost 25% success rate. I'll bite on your URM argument but legacies, nah I'm not biting on that. No way to know, so why assume that is the way it is?

Once again, URM I'll bite. But no way can you say that the majority of 5000 acceptances came from the south. Doesn't statistically add up.

As do I. Impossible means not possible. As in 0% odds.