260 on Step 1, 259 on Step 2, should I retransmit?

[cal8719]

I understand this is an absolutely ridiculous question and I've gotten great scores on both Steps.

But I'm wondering if I should go ahead and retransmit my Step 2 on ERAS to send it out to the programs I've applied to. Surely a 1 point score decrease won't matter at all right?

I'm going into a specialty where not much emphasis is placed on Step 2, and I was advised not to even take it until January. I haven't gotten quite the interview invites that I was hoping for which sucks.

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[Winged Scapula]

you're being neurotic about this.

when we talk about the expectation that your step two score should be as good as if not better than your step one, no one is talking about a one point difference.

as you well know, one point will be well within the standard error of measurement.

retransmit or don't retransmit, the score will not make a difference.

 

[inep]

Well if you're applying for derm, 260 is borderline and a solid pass on step 2 is probably a good thing to add to your application. Or you can just differentiate yourself by writing 7 or 8 pointless articles and submitting them, because that's somehow valued.

 

[username456789]

Well if you're applying for derm, 260 is borderline and a solid pass on step 2 is probably a good thing to add to your application. Or you can just differentiate yourself by writing 7 or 8 pointless articles and submitting them, because that's somehow valued.

Ignore this poster. All of his posts in the last few days of been hilariously angry towards specialties like Derm that he even states he would not be able to match into. Which is especially hilarious after he made a thread asking which specialties had the best hours.

 

[J ROD]

Might as well. It is a very good score and backs up the Step 1.

 

[ijn]

No. Do not transmit the score, unless the program directors are ignorant of what the scores mean.

It is NOT merely a "one point difference" as some of the posters in this thread believe. The averages for the two tests are vastly different for applicants matching in 2014 - 224 for Step 1 and 238 for Step 2 CK. You dropped by almost a standard deviation on your Step 2 CK score relative to your Step 1 score. It can only hurt. Release after the interview.

 

[Winged Scapula]

No. Do not transmit the score, unless the program directors are ignorant of what the scores mean.

It is NOT merely a "one point difference" as some of the posters in this thread believe. The averages for the two tests are vastly different for applicants matching in 2014 - 224 for Step 1 and 238 for Step 2 CK. You dropped by almost a standard deviation on your Step 2 CK score relative to your Step 1 score. It can only hurt. Release after the interview.

No one but medical students look at it that way. Believe me, faculty are not getting out score reports and comparing standard deviations on a regular basis. The fact is that the OP's score is well above the average, and is a good representation of his test-taking skills. All any one will think is, "those are good scores".

Thank you for encouraging nonsense medical student paranoia.

 

[Vermicious Knid]

get real

 

[Brain Bucket]

'Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.'

Seriously, though. My instincts also scream "don't retransmit". Unless there's an upside to it that I don't know?

 

[cal8719]

No one but medical students look at it that way. Believe me, faculty are not getting out score reports and comparing standard deviations on a regular basis. The fact is that the OP's score is well above the average, and is a good representation of his test-taking skills. All any one will think is, "those are good scores".

Thank you for encouraging nonsense medical student paranoia.

lol.

I went ahead and retransmitted. I'll be the first to admit I didn't study nearly as hard for Step 2 as Step 1.

The averages for my specialty are 240 and 245, respectively. So I think it will have to help, at least a little bit, not hurt.

 

[cal8719]

'Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.'

Seriously, though. My instincts also scream "don't retransmit". Unless there's an upside to it that I don't know?

Are y'all for real?!

I basically started this thread for reassurance, didn't actually expect people to tell me not to retransmit.

Should've known better....

 

[Brain Bucket]

Are y'all for real?!

I basically started this thread for reassurance, didn't actually expect people to tell me not to retransmit.

Should've known better....

I'm just in my second year. I have no clue.

Though, WHY would you want to send a Step 2 score if it has little or no bearing on acceptance into your field of choice? Especially if there is a considerable difference (as pointed out by ijn) in your scores. It'd be obvious why you'd want to send it if you did better...but...yeah...I don't get it.

 

[elektroshok]

shouldn't have retransmitted bro. now you no going to matchz.
uh ohz

 

[cal8719]

I'm just in my second year. I have no clue.

Though, WHY would you want to send a Step 2 score if it has little or no bearing on acceptance into your field of choice? Especially if there is a considerable difference (as pointed out by ijn) in your scores.

My Step 1 is 20 points above average for people that matched into my chosen specialty

My Step 2 is 14 points above average for people that matched into my chosen specialty

My thought was it just demonstrates a pattern. I think I've already answered my own OP.


I also feel like once you get to the top ranges of these scores, it's MUCH harder to crack the next level (ie. 265+, 270+, 275+). You're just talking about a handful of questions at that point.

 

[cal8719]

shouldn't have retransmitted bro. now you no going to matchz.
uh ohz

Looks like family medicine for me....

 

[Brain Bucket]

I see.

 

[Doctor Bob]

Are y'all for real?!

I basically started this thread for reassurance, didn't actually expect people to tell me not to retransmit.

Should've known better....

Uhm, so you came to SDN... for reassurance? Clearly you haven't been reading all of the threads. We are more into snarky cynicysm.

Personally, I would retransmit (which I see you've done).

If I'm looking at two equal applicants, and the only difference is that one has taken and passed step II then I'm going to take that person. Rather than the unknown of "they will probably pass the exam", I now have an applicant that I know has passed the exam and it will be a non-issue as the process goes forward. Every year there are people who crush step I and then get sunk on step II.

 

[gettheleadout]

Well if you're applying for derm, 260 is borderline and a solid pass on step 2 is probably a good thing to add to your application. Or you can just differentiate yourself by writing 7 or 8 pointless articles and submitting them, because that's somehow valued.

Maybe if you can't read Charting Outcomes properly?

 

[yehhhboiii]

Maybe if you can't read Charting Outcomes properly?

nice stats

 

[Brain Bucket]

Every year there are people who crush step I and then get sunk on step II.

I totally get going for a known quantity over an unknown, but...

Is it really that much of a problem? 260 on step 1 and dropping the ball on step 2?

How do you define 'get sunk'? Not passing? A decrease of over 1 SD?

 

[Winged Scapula]

I totally get going for a known quantity over an unknown, but...

Is it really that much of a problem? 260 on step 1 and dropping the ball on step 2?

Absolutely a problem.

Every year there are students who get stellar scores on Step 1 and do much worse on Step 2 (traditionally an easier examination) either because they didn't study enough or were overly confident. Hence the common advice to delay taking Step 2 until after residency interviews are done.

Every year there are students who wait until the last minute to take Step 2, fail it and then are faced with not being eligible for graduation or starting residency.

The majority of students do fine, Some do not. Hence Dr. Bob's preference for a known entity.

 

[Brain Bucket]

Absolutely a problem.

Every year there are students who get stellar scores on Step 1 and do much worse on Step 2 (traditionally an easier examination) either because they didn't study enough or were overly confident. Hence the common advice to delay taking Step 2 until after residency interviews are done.

Every year there are students who wait until the last minute to take Step 2, fail it and then are faced with not being eligible for graduation or starting residency.

The majority of students do fine, Some do not. Hence Dr. Bob's preference for a known entity.

Cheers! 🙂

D'you think it has to do something with the lack of a 'Bible' for the Step II as well? The consensus appears to be 'study hard for each of the shelves', just like it was for Step I (work hard for the first two years), but FA for II doesn't appear to be as ... high-yield for Step II as it was for I.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Cheers! 🙂

D'you think it has to do something with the lack of a 'Bible' for the Step II as well? The consensus appears to be 'study hard for each of the shelves', just like it was for Step I (work hard for the first two years), but FA for II doesn't appear to be as ... high-yield for Step II as it was for I.

I'd venture its more about "2 months, 2 weeks, number 2 pencil" advice so students assume the exam is either easier than it is or don't give it as much emphasis as needed. Its all about Step 1, isn't it?

 

[Brain Bucket]

I guess. Thanks again 🙂

 

[Doctor Bob]

Is it really that much of a problem? 260 on step 1 and dropping the ball on step 2?

How do you define 'get sunk'? Not passing? A decrease of over 1 SD?

No, it's not a common situation but it happens. And by getting sunk I mean not passing.
Step II also carries more weight in the EM world. I'm not as interested in your ability to memorize obscure biochemical pathways or discrete anatomic structures. I want to know how you clinically think... and that's evaluated more on Step II.

Every year there are students who wait until the last minute to take Step 2, fail it and then are faced with not being eligible for graduation or starting residency.

Yep. So if all of our incoming residents have already passed step II, then this is a non-issue for us. The more non-issues we can have prior to the start of the year, the lower our blood pressure.

D'you think it has to do something with the lack of a 'Bible' for the Step II as well? The consensus appears to be 'study hard for each of the shelves', just like it was for Step I (work hard for the first two years), but FA for II doesn't appear to be as ... high-yield for Step II as it was for I.

Step I is more about memorization. Step II requires application of information (to a greater degree than step I) and has more of a clinical bent. The two months/two weeks/two pencils mantra that WS alludes to can hold true for a lot of people; not because the exam is easier, but because Step II involves application of information gleaned from clinical rotations. If you've been struggling all through M3 year and just don't get the concept of clinical medicine then you'll need a lot more time to study for step II. If however you've been paying attention on rounds, doing the assigned reading, and are starting to build the framework of common clinical diseases, then the study period can be significantly abbreviated (from the time required for step I)

 

[swamprat]

Cheers! 🙂

D'you think it has to do something with the lack of a 'Bible' for the Step II as well? The consensus appears to be 'study hard for each of the shelves', just like it was for Step I (work hard for the first two years), but FA for II doesn't appear to be as ... high-yield for Step II as it was for I.

Surprisingly you become really smart by the end of third year where you really only need 2 weeks for step 2(I didn't believe it at the start of third year as I was getting destroyed on uworld step 2 questions).mthe shelf exam questions are harder than the step 2 questions on average and I feel like knowledge gets more engrained into your working memory where it becomes more second nature. Also step 1 requires more painful deep thinking and I actually felt very fatigued and needed a break after each section, step 2 you either know it or don't a lot less thinking I flew through questions.. That's all just my opinion obviously but other students I spoke to feel the same

 

[mmmcdowe]

Submitting was the right choice. It may or may not help but a 259 is NEVER going to hurt you considering you are still way above average for your field. Heck, even if you had dropped to a 250 I would say still submit.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I agree with submitting. Most people say don't submit if your Step 2 is lower than your Step 1. When your step 1 is a 260, that advice doesn't apply as much. If you had a 240 step 1 and a 225 Step 2, I would've said do not retransmit.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

This has been way way way tremendously overthought.

Arguing about relative SDs of the two tests ? WTF.

Here is what will happen: a PD will look at the scores in the file, mentally file away "great board scores", and check the box in their application file that says "has taken and passed USMLE step 2"

A couple programs that are hard-noses about requiring step 2 to rank applicants will like that you've got your score in early.

 

[Brain Bucket]

No, it's not a common situation but it happens. And by getting sunk I mean not passing.
Step II also carries more weight in the EM world. I'm not as interested in your ability to memorize obscure biochemical pathways or discrete anatomic structures. I want to know how you clinically think... and that's evaluated more on Step II.

Yep. So if all of our incoming residents have already passed step II, then this is a non-issue for us. The more non-issues we can have prior to the start of the year, the lower our blood pressure.

Step I is more about memorization. Step II requires application of information (to a greater degree than step I) and has more of a clinical bent. The two months/two weeks/two pencils mantra that WS alludes to can hold true for a lot of people; not because the exam is easier, but because Step II involves application of information gleaned from clinical rotations. If you've been struggling all through M3 year and just don't get the concept of clinical medicine then you'll need a lot more time to study for step II. If however you've been paying attention on rounds, doing the assigned reading, and are starting to build the framework of common clinical diseases, then the study period can be significantly abbreviated (from the time required for step I)

Surprisingly you become really smart by the end of third year where you really only need 2 weeks for step 2(I didn't believe it at the start of third year as I was getting destroyed on uworld step 2 questions).mthe shelf exam questions are harder than the step 2 questions on average and I feel like knowledge gets more engrained into your working memory where it becomes more second nature. Also step 1 requires more painful deep thinking and I actually felt very fatigued and needed a break after each section, step 2 you either know it or don't a lot less thinking I flew through questions.. That's all just my opinion obviously but other students I spoke to feel the same

Thank you.

 

[Anastomoses]

Sorry, could someone explain the term "retransmit" in this context?

 

[Stellar Clouds]

Sorry, could someone explain the term "retransmit" in this context?

If your CK score comes back after you have submitted your ERAS app, you have the option to retransmit your USMLE transcript or not (so programs will either see your CK score or not).