I heard 3 out 4 PGY-1 are leaving GWU program, quit or transfer out. Is this program on some kind of probation or closing down?
3 out of 4 PGY-1 leaving GWU pathology?
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Maybe people they got through the scramble?
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Hope scrambled residents are not treated like foster children everywhere LOL
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That would still be on the unusual side -- a program should generally not have to scramble to fill 75% of their spots, and if they do, something is probably wonky somewhere. Of course, I don't know that it's clear the program is indeed losing 3 of 4 PGY1's, which would be the first question. FWIW, acgme.com has them with 3 PGY1's and 14 of 15 accredited positions filled (unknown if all 15 are funded and truly available). I don't see anything about probation there, but per the website they have a scheduled site visit Aug 7, 2012, last visit in 2007. Also don't know how up-to-date acgme.com is.
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Perhaps the residents are bailing for a reason. GWU medical school is a real mess. In fact, last year they just got off medical school accreditation probation after being the first school put on it in 15 years. See this Washington Post article. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...020303788.html .
Allegedly, things have not improved much. There is now a significant possibility that GW may lose ACGME accreditation of their residency programs. If this happens, George Washington University Medical School residents will be forced to seek new resident positions elsewhere in a very tight market. Existing GW residents may simply figure that it is better to bail out now.
Allegedly, things have not improved much. There is now a significant possibility that GW may lose ACGME accreditation of their residency programs. If this happens, George Washington University Medical School residents will be forced to seek new resident positions elsewhere in a very tight market. Existing GW residents may simply figure that it is better to bail out now.
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Programs are evaluated by ACGME individually; what you are suggesting is not true. The GW Path program has undergone ACGME review in the past couple of months and the unofficial word is that they had an exemplary review with vast improvements. Whoever says otherwise is doesn't know or understand what's going on at GW right now.
I've read a lot of negativity here regarding the GW path program and I'm afraid that the picture that's being portrayed about the program is misleading. If you're looking for a program in DC (or GW specifically), contact one of their CURRENT residents to get an accurate idea of the program.
No program is perfect, and GW has its fair share of problems, but let me reassure you that what's being said about GW on this forum is SIMPLY NOT TRUE. It is my feeling that there are previous disgruntled residents lurking around spreading malicious misinformation. Thanks, but we know we're much better that that, and the CURRENT residents can attest to that.
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The very fact that there are "Disgruntled residents" at George Washington willing to speak out says a lot. Don't see this for other programs. True, residency in general sucks. But GW sucks worse than most. Those 3 of 4 PGY-1s leaving GW's pathology residency program for mysterious reasons are just the tip of the iceberg.
As for ACGME accreditation-- the ACGME can only go on what the department or some whistle-blowing resident (who thereby destroys his own career) tells them. The ACGME is also the creation of the various residency programs and definitely does not look for trouble. E.g., GW pays little attention to resident hours guidelines and apparently never has. Millions of dollars in extra costs are at stake. So they take the chance of losing accreditation over it. Most departments, BTW. Far as I can tell.
Also, there are credible rumors floating around that GWU readily fires residents who they feel might make a fuss with the ACGME. After cooking up a suitable cover story, naturally. Allegedly, lives and careers have been ruined. "Omerta"- like the mafia.
This cows all "current residents" into keeping their mouths shut, at least in public. In short, most just hope to finish out their time unscathed. Some residents even start looking for other programs.
BTW, nothing new here, Johns Hopkins' surgery program apparently fires residents whom they even suspect of squealing to the ACGME over (say) hours violations. I know this because there was a lawsuit over it. But at least you can brag about being trained at The John.
The hazard is that eventually GW will put themselves in a position where even the toothless ACGME will have to do somethng, if only to prove the ACGME is not completely a joke. Apparently, this is how GW got put on probation by the equally-weak LCME, who had not probated anybody for 15 years and only a few times before that. Anyway, you do not want to be a GW resident when this happens.
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That link does not seem to work.
Washington Post Articles on GW Medical School accreditation probation:
"Medical schools problems worse than described" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...2/22/AR2009022202031.html?sid=ST2010113006489
"GWU medical school leaders told to resign" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/30/AR2010113006401.html
Residency does suck, but don't ask a Path resident, ask a Medicine or Surgery resident. Anyone who can complain about being overworked in any Path residency doesn't know what hard work is.
Every one of the three residents who left last year had a good reason to leave. They were not driven out in any shape or form. GW supported their decision to leave 100%, they are doing just as fine at their new programs as they did at GW. The people who remain, and the new residents are pleased with their choice of coming to the program. Residents have voiced their issues with the program and GW has listened; it is now a very collegiate place to work for, and everyone supports each other. What happened before is history, and now there's a new-found pride and vision to take the program forward.
If some of you are former graduates, understand that GW Path is doing very well, and it will continue to improve to its potential. Any past issues are now HISTORY.
People will see that at each and every ACGME review cycle, things will only get better, not worse. I reject your assertion that ACGME will need to do something eventually; GW just had a review, and it was successful beyond anyone's expectations.
Please do not continue to distribute misinformation about GW Path; the new resident team is working great together, and negativity is not welcome.
Please continue to respond, I'm more than happy to be an advocate against misinformation and for me to portray the GW program in the light that it deserves.
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The tradition is that dissatisfied residents just move on if they can and it is to nobody's interest to announce why. Likewise, I agree that there must have been some other reason than violation of the resident hours rules for path residents to leave. That is for surgery, IM, etc... Howabout-- the program just sucked.
Again, the ACGME is completely dependent upon what the departments tell them. The alternative is the residents, who can and have been fired for tattling. Anyway, the "punishment" is loss of accreditation, which screws the resident too. Better just to move along.
In my experience and that of others, the "changes" made to get off LCME accreditation probation were mostly cosmetic. For example, as reflected in the Washington Post articles, one major problem is that GW is completely-dependent upon outside owned hospitals for both medical school and residency training.
Examples include GW hospital itself, which is owned by a private, for-profit corporation. The plantation-like leasing out of residents to GWU hospital and other facilities such as Innova Fairfax is a major profit center for GW and its medical practice group.
Unfortunately, these outside facilities seek to maximize profits and exert undue pressure on the school, for example, to get the max out of the residents, whatever hazard this places a department in WRT accreditation. Unfortunately, the school is between a rock and a hard place.
Per the Washington Post, the potential for such undue influence is why the two top med school administrators got fired and was a major, unannounced reason for LCME accreditation probation. E.g., estimates are that institution of the new resident hours rules costs $100-200 per admission to replace the lost resident labor with (e.g.) midlevels. IIRC, about $3-6 million per hospital, maybe more. That has to hurt. Anyway, it is all about the money.
Again, the ACGME is completely dependent upon what the departments tell them. The alternative is the residents, who can and have been fired for tattling. Anyway, the "punishment" is loss of accreditation, which screws the resident too. Better just to move along.
In my experience and that of others, the "changes" made to get off LCME accreditation probation were mostly cosmetic. For example, as reflected in the Washington Post articles, one major problem is that GW is completely-dependent upon outside owned hospitals for both medical school and residency training.
Examples include GW hospital itself, which is owned by a private, for-profit corporation. The plantation-like leasing out of residents to GWU hospital and other facilities such as Innova Fairfax is a major profit center for GW and its medical practice group.
Unfortunately, these outside facilities seek to maximize profits and exert undue pressure on the school, for example, to get the max out of the residents, whatever hazard this places a department in WRT accreditation. Unfortunately, the school is between a rock and a hard place.
Per the Washington Post, the potential for such undue influence is why the two top med school administrators got fired and was a major, unannounced reason for LCME accreditation probation. E.g., estimates are that institution of the new resident hours rules costs $100-200 per admission to replace the lost resident labor with (e.g.) midlevels. IIRC, about $3-6 million per hospital, maybe more. That has to hurt. Anyway, it is all about the money.
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Let me reiterate, the 3 residents who left had legitimate reasons to leave, they were not driven out, or left because they didn't like where they were. We now have a good program and it will only continue to get better. The faculty, GME and administration are working hard to greatly improve the resident experience.
I've also read somewhere that GW is on the list of "gross horse" programs, NOT TRUE. There are two full time PAs and a third is being hired. People do not gross past 6-7 o'clock on any given day. There is full frozen support and full autopsy support by PAs. We have a great variety of resections and enough to become VERY competent in the art of gross dissection.
I cannot comment on the medical school probation or what not. We're talking about the GW Path residency and the negativity that's floating around here. Unfortunately GWH is a for-profit hospital, and for that all employees, and residents alike sufferer. Nevertheless, GW Path is on the right track to reach its potential.
