All Branch Topic (ABT) 3 Year HPSP (AIR FORCE / NAVY / ARMY)

[AirForce_MD]

Hello SDN! My name is Samy, and I'm currently a 3rd year medical student. I'm also in the Air Force under a 3 Year HPSP Scholarship. There's a lot of information on SDN about the 4 Year HPSP program, but not much for the 3 Year one. Anyways, I've been asked a lot of questions regarding my decision - which has prompted me to start a Q&A thread.

What would you like to know about the 3 Year HPSP program and/or my decision?

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[backrow]

What do you think is different between the 3 year and 4 year HPSP beyond the length of commitment?

 

[AirForce_MD]

What do you think is different between the 3 year and 4 year HPSP beyond the length of commitment?

Good question Backrow, here are a few differences I can quickly come up with...

3 year (need loans to cover 1st year) vs. 4 year (no loans during all medical school)
I mean this is a given, but for students that have low undergrad debt or multiple scholarships, one year of loans should be fine.

3 year (can have summer between 1st and 2nd year open for research/travel) vs. 4 year (normally complete Commissioned Officer Training)
This was a big factor for me. I liked having my summer open for whatever I felt like doing.

3 year (have more time to decide / complete application) vs. 4 year (limited time to decide)
I liked having a year to see if I truly wanted the HPSP / began thinking about possible future career options.

I'm sure there are a few other differences, but I'd have to think about it a little more.

Best,

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

3 year (can have summer between 1st and 2nd year open for research/travel) vs. 4 year (normally complete Commissioned Officer Training)
This was a big factor for me. I liked having my summer open for whatever I felt like doing.

But don't you still have to complete the officer training? Except now you have to schedule it during your 4th year rotations?

 

[AirForce_MD]

But don't you still have to complete the officer training? Except now you have to schedule it during your 4th year rotations?

Correct, you still have to complete COT. Thankfully it is only 30 days and they offer it multiple times a year. 4th year at most medical schools is loosely-structured. As in students can set-up their acting internships, electives, etc... in many different ways. In general medical schools are very accommodating (much more so than the government). I plan on completing my COT the first month of my 4th year (it is recommended that you complete COT before Active Duty Tours). You could also complete this between 2nd and third year, however my school does not have a summer break.

 

[deleted407021]

Why did you choose the Air Force? So far, do you feel well treated and appreciated? How has the work environment been relative to the civilian sector? How long do you plan to stay and why?

Thanks!

 

[AirForce_MD]

Why did you choose the Air Force? So far, do you feel well treated and appreciated? How has the work environment been relative to the civilian sector? How long do you plan to stay and why?

Thanks!

I chose the Air Force over Army and Navy because of my personal preference. Sure they are slightly different in a few ways. But in the end it should come down to what you prefer (for instance I am interested in Space Medicine and like the color blue). AF is also more accommodating (in my experience). I feel very well treated and appreciated (but then again I've had very little exposure so far). Military peeps love officers (especially medical officers). I've also been personally thanked by many people for my "service" even though I've done nothing yet. In my mind, learning medicine is currently my service to the U.S., since what I learn now will allow me to treat people in the future (military or civilian). During medical school you do very little military-related things (besides COT which is really fun I hear). I don't know what the work environment will be yet (and that depends on whether or not I do a civilian or military residency). I plan on currently staying a little while longer than I'm required too (but it's so early to tell, and I have yet to decide my specialty).

 

[Snowdon48]

I chose the Air Force over Army and Navy because of my personal preference. Sure they are slightly different in a few ways. But in the end it should come down to what you prefer (for instance I am interested in Space Medicine and like the color blue). AF is also more accommodating (in my experience). I feel very well treated and appreciated (but then again I've had very little exposure so far). Military peeps love officers (especially medical officers). I've also been personally thanked by many people for my "service" even though I've done nothing yet. In my mind, learning medicine is currently my service to the U.S., since what I learn now will allow me to treat people in the future (military or civilian). During medical school you do very little military-related things (besides COT which is really fun I hear). I don't know what the work environment will be yet (and that depends on whether or not I do a civilian or military residency). I plan on currently staying a little while longer than I'm required too (but it's so early to tell, and I have yet to decide my specialty).

I'm sorry, but how can you start a thread answering questions about AF medicine when you haven't even gone to COT yet? From what vast pool of experience are you pulling from?

 

[Gastrapathy]

This one is going to be a classic. Are you an adult? You chose the Air Force because you like the color blue? Military peeps love officers? How do people even know you you've joined so that they can thank your for your service? Why do you seem to (really) (really) like parenthetical (statements)? You'll complete COT when everyone else is doing audition rotations, so are you concerned you will end up with a less desirable residency in Ohio? You'll end up with the same post-residency obligation as a 4 year HPSP for 75% of the money. Why are you proudly selling a bad deal other than trying to make yourself feel better?

 

[Strategy]

Suppose I wanted to do a GMO right away and 'get out' to pursue civilian residency. Would this make 3 year HPSP a smart option? (I'm also not sure I will like the military so 3 years will be less "damage" if things don't go well).

 

[AirForce_MD]

I'm sorry, but how can you start a thread answering questions about AF medicine when you haven't even gone to COT yet? From what vast pool of experience are you pulling from?

My intention was not to answer questions about AF medicine, but rather the application process for a 3 year scholarship, as well as the differences between a three year and a four year. Obviously as I progress through the years I will have more first hand experience. Just because I have not completed COT yet, does not mean I don't know anything. Before joining I asked a thousand questions and saved hundreds of files. I have a lot of information about the program, even though I've not gone through it. This is a "learn-and-help-as-you-go" thing and I really just wanted to offer support. I'm not trying to sell anything. Just being straight.

This one is going to be a classic. Are you an adult? You chose the Air Force because you like the color blue? Military peeps love officers? How do people even know you you've joined so that they can thank your for your service? Why do you seem to (really) (really) like parenthetical (statements)? You'll complete COT when everyone else is doing audition rotations, so are you concerned you will end up with a less desirable residency in Ohio? You'll end up with the same post-residency obligation as a 4 year HPSP for 75% of the money. Why are you proudly selling a bad deal other than trying to make yourself feel better?

Clearly you didn't see that I was kidding, and I apologize for that. Sometimes it's hard to be informative online and funny (without others over analyzing, or maybe I'm just not funny). I clearly did not choose the Air Force because I like the color blue... I chose to join the Air Force because of events that have occurred in my life.

Eight years ago on the 12th of July, a 34-day military conflict erupted in Lebanon and I was right in the middle of it. I could hear the sound of missiles razing buildings to the ground and I could see clouds of smoke thundering into the Mediterranean sky. I was concerned and worried for the safety and well being of others. The explosions became louder, and the cries for help more numerous. I had no idea what was happening, and I didn't care. The only thing on my mind was “What can I do to help?” Sixteen years old and alone, I ran to the nearest cloud of smoke emanating from a collapsed building. In front of a pile of twisted metal and crushed concrete, a veiled woman laid there crying out to her son. I called out to the other adults nearby for help. Together, we lifted and moved the debris, only to have the young boy bleed out right there in front of us. After that life-altering experience, I promised myself that someday I would be in a position to help. I wanted to be able to save people and improve lives – I wanted to alleviate the suffering of others.

I applied to medical school and joined the Air Force for the same reasons. Classmates know that I'm in the Air Force because we all know about each other. It's not strangers thanking me for serving. I'm not concerned about completing COT at the start of my fourth year because we have 2-3 free months that are generally spent for research, vacation, or whatever. Since I completed research between my first and second year, completing COT then does not put me at a disadvantage. Like many others have told you in the past, if you are joining just for the money - don't. You are right about the post-residency obligation of 3-4 years at 75% of the money. But I want that, I want the unique military experience, and I'm very interested in pursing a career as a Pilot Physician (http://www.aangfs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/AFI11-405-Pilot-Physician-Program.pdf).

I'm happy to answer all questions, and those that I don't know the answer to - I'll contact those who do know the answer and I'll get back to you as soon as possible.

Best,

 

[AirForce_MD]

Suppose I wanted to do a GMO right away and 'get out' to pursue civilian residency. Would this make 3 year HPSP a smart option? (I'm also not sure I will like the military so 3 years will be less "damage" if things don't go well).

GMO, or General Medical Officers, are non-residency trained physicians. Most people in the AF don't do a GMO, while many in the Navy do. Some people use GMO tours to "boost" their application stats. Let's say you want that neurosurgeon seat but have average stats. A GMO tour would help you get that seat. But that's not what you are asking, you are asking about a quick in and out. In general, Army and Air Force medical residents are allowed to complete their residencies before proceeding to their first assignments, while Navy personnel complete an internship and then serve as a general medical officer (GMO), with the option of completing a residency following their GMO tour. For Navy officers, time spent as a GMO is credited towards the service obligation. If you did a GMO in the AF you would still have to do residency, and the GMO tour would add 1 year to your service obligation.

So you could apply for the Navy 3 year, then do 3 years as a GMO and get sent who knows where. But then you would have to apply to civilian residency programs after that. And I can't comment on whether or not that is difficult, because I don't know the answer (you would basically be a General Practitioner with 3 years experience at that point).

 

[AirForce_MD]

A few more points about GMOs. Navy students, as well as some Air Force and Army students are allowed to serve as General Medical Officers (GMO) after internship and before they complete a residency. So you would still need to do that. Such opportunities are being phased out of the military. About 30% of Navy students still serve GMO tours. These billets still exist, but are being filled by residency trained physicians.

 

[colbgw02]

This thread has turned into a giant online black pearl.

 

[Strategy]

A few more points about GMOs. Navy students, as well as some Air Force and Army students are allowed to serve as General Medical Officers (GMO) after internship and before they complete a residency. So you would still need to do that. Such opportunities are being phased out of the military. About 30% of Navy students still serve GMO tours. These billets still exist, but are being filled by residency trained physicians.

First, thank you for your prompt replies. I appreciate your help. So just to clarify- would a 3 year GMO tour in any service following internship complete payback for a 3 year HPSP student? Also is my understanding that: if you want to do a GMO immediately following the internship, any branch will let you?

Finally, approximately what portion of Army/AF HPSP students get a residency position or deferment as opposed to being assigned a GMO? (You said 70% for Navy but I am also interested in the other branches)

 

[AirForce_MD]

This thread has turned into a giant online black pearl.

Haha, had to brush up on my gems to get this saying. Accurate description here.

 

[AirForce_MD]

First, thank you for your prompt replies. I appreciate your help. So just to clarify- would a 3 year GMO tour in any service following internship complete payback for a 3 year HPSP student? Also is my understanding that: if you want to do a GMO immediately following the internship, any branch will let you?

Finally, approximately what portion of Army/AF HPSP students get a residency position or deferment as opposed to being assigned a GMO? (You said 70% for Navy but I am also interested in the other branches)

In the Air Force, a GMO tour adds to your service commitment. Say after med school you complete internship then do 3 years as a GMO. You will have to be an AF physician for 6 years (3 hpsp + 3 more) following residency... 4y med school 1y internship, 3y GMO, 3-4y residency, 6y commitment.. If you started med school at 22 you would be 'done' with the military by 39 years... So I would not recommend doing a GMO in the AF.

Army. I'm not sure. But I do know they have fever GMO tours and generally fill them with residency-trained physicians.

Navy, as far as I know, is the only one where this could work. I still think the gap in education between medical school and residency, will be something difficult to overcome in applying to civilian programs.

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My goal is to complete a military-sponsored civilian residency (AF grants the most # of deferments and Navy almost none) right after medical school, and then work as a physician for the air force in my specialty for 3 years. That leaves me with a completed residency, and 3 years experience. I can then either choose to stay, or to go civilian. Military-sponsored civilian residencies, or military residencies, pay you significantly more than normal civilian ones (almost double in some cases). But then that almost equalizes during your three years as a physician, depending on your specialty.

 

[colbgw02]

You need to stop posting. You have posted inaccurate and incomplete multiple times now.

@Strategy, don't listen to the OP.

 

[AirForce_MD]

The previous post just shows how confusing the HPSP programs can be. I'm trying my best to provide accurate information based on my conversations with recruiters, my personal experiences, as well as online sources such as (http://www.militarygme.org/) and (http://lukeballard.tripod.com/HPSP.html). Both are a little outdated but have good information. Just like everything you read on the internet, you should personally fact check any of the things I say if you are considering applying. Even recruiters can tell you false things from time to time - and I experienced that first hand when switching between recruiters.

 

[notdeadyet]

Agreed. AirForce_MD: there are several pieces of information that you're posting here that are just plain wrong. Feel free to post things from your experience to date, but you might refrain from speaking of GMO tours and payback obligations and much of the above because you're giving out bad info.

Your excitement is awesome. But you might stick to things you have more direct experience with.


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[AirForce_MD]

Agreed. AirForce_MD: there are several pieces of information that you're posting here that are just plain wrong. Feel free to post things from your experience to date, but you might refrain from speaking of GMO tours and payback obligations and much of the above because you're giving out bad info.

Your excitement is awesome. But you might stick to things you have more direct experience with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fair enough. When the questions about GMO tours were asked I spent a while researching the answer since I didn't know. Next time I'll just say "I don't know." I guess the sources I used were not 100% accurate - even though I'm fairly certain what I've posted to far is accurate. I appreciate your input / should get back to studying anyways.

 

[Lee]

Closing thread.