38 MCAT looks like I am not getting in. Advice?

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I was in a similar boat when I first applied. I had great stats, but I did not apply broadly enough. Sucks to learn the hard way but you definitely need to apply more broadly and have lower tier oos schools on that list next time. Good luck.
 
I agree with an earlier post that submitting some secondaries in September may not have helped. While you might have other areas on your app to work on improving (agree with clinical hours and looking back over essay content), submitting as early as you can is also key to getting consideration in a timely manner. You also asked someone to clarify why your clinical hours were lacking - just remember that you are now competing with a good percentage of non-traditional students or those who take a gap year, and as someone who took 3 years in between grad school and my application, I easily had hours into the thousands (and thats an understatement). The lesson in applying to med school is that you can always do more. Even when you get into med school, you'll find that you can never do enough. Keep truckin' along and showing as much commitment to the field as you can!

I also echo what many others have said about BYU grads at TX schools! My year has 3, and one is top of our class. Good luck! 🙂
 
adcoms being real human beings who read some apps when they are half-asleep, or hungry, or just annoyed or something in general, they might miss a few good people once in a while
Though this can be true, the probability of this happening when one applies to 10+ schools is unlikely, given they are a competitive applicant. That's why everyone should always apply to at least ~10 schools just to be safe.
 
Why does the answer always have to be something we've parsed as wrong with the applicant, or with an assumption that there just must be some secret deficit of doom? Why must the 'system' of admissions always be defended? Is it infallible? Are there never applicants who deserved to get in or should have gotten in who don't? Of course there may be a problem with the applicant, but it seems like there is some embedded defensiveness that prevails whenever something like this is posted, and I'm not sure exactly what is being defended so vigorously or why.
They're allergic to hubris and poor choice making.




Easy. When someone is competitive and fails to get any love, there are usually good reasons why.


Why does the answer always have to be something we've parsed as wrong with the applicant, or with an assumption that there just must be some secret deficit of doom? Why must the 'system' of admissions always be defended? Is it infallible? Are there never applicants who deserved to get in or should have gotten in who don't? Of course there may be a problem with the applicant, but it seems like there is some embedded defensiveness that prevails whenever something like this is posted, and I'm not sure exactly what is being defended so vigorously or why.
Whereas I think that with 10-15K apps to sift through, and schools not even acknowledging that some have applied (and not even looked at some apps) for 4-5 months, and adcoms being real human beings who read some apps when they are half-asleep, or hungry, or just annoyed or something in general, they might miss a few good people once in a while. And that's not actually a slam but just being realistic. Now obviously on an individual level all a person can do is try to improve his/her app for the next time. And this person most likely will get in Utah and be fine.
Please restrain your ignorance of the app process. We take this VERY seriously. Like it or not, there are a superfluity of good candidates...as witnessed by the 40% success rate of any given applicant.
Please refer to your own words above. Not getting in doesn't have to mean someone did something wrong or has some fatal flaw.
So?

As in any sport, the applicant with the fewest mistakes gets accepted.

I am not sure why Nietzschelover is getting criticized here. His arguments are very solid and every application cycle has repeatedly and consistently showed that medical school admissions is imperfect. There are many schools that have excellent admissions processes and others that are downright awful. An applicant who focused more on schools with historically poor admissions quality may fall through the cracks to no fault on their own.

I also heard of many stories where applicants got lucky with the interviewers they were assigned to and they hit it off immediately because of similar research or clinical interests. This plays a significant role if the interviewer holds a lot of power on influencing adcom decisions, meaning that an applicant not assigned or clicking with such an imterviewer will end up waitlisted or even rejected.

Just because people with "fewest mistakes" (however "mistake" is defined) doesn't mean admissions is free from blame. And the prominent example is the Duke 2014-15 catastrophe.

So yes, there are few cases of applicants getting shut out from medical school with no fault of their own. That's why such applicants receive a lot of success in the following application cycle with only some changes in their apps.
 
Way too top heavy for your lackluster ECs, pile of Ws, and middling GPA. You'll probably get in next year just fine if you do some volunteering and get some clinical hours in, as well as apply to more mid and low tier schools. A mid-tier will probably snag you if you apply to enough of them, but you don't really have a good group of safeties on your list.
 
Why does the answer always have to be something we've parsed as wrong with the applicant, or with an assumption that there just must be some secret deficit of doom? Why must the 'system' of admissions always be defended? Is it infallible? Are there never applicants who deserved to get in or should have gotten in who don't? Of course there may be a problem with the applicant, but it seems like there is some embedded defensiveness that prevails whenever something like this is posted, and I'm not sure exactly what is being defended so vigorously or why.
There is something wrong with the applicant. They applied too topheavy for what their overall app is. Probably would have gotten in just fine if they added a mix of 5-10 low and 5-10 mid tiers.
 
Just because people with "fewest mistakes" (however "mistake" is defined) doesn't mean admissions is free from blame. And the prominent example is the Duke 2014-15 catastrophe

Do you mind explaining the Duke catastrophe? Sorry I don't know about it.
 
For some reason, my gut feeling is the PS/secondary responses. I'm not a stellar applicant by any means... (in fact, perfectly mediocre), but I had a much better cycle than expected (at least in terms of netting II) which I largely attribute to my PS/secondary writing rather than anything else.
 
I find this very surprising, boxes are checked and list looks good to me for the numbers. I have a hard time believing the problem is in anything we can see here.

Only the single interview? Utah interviews 70% of instate applicants, considering your 38 you may well have some big weak spot we can't see that Utah was willing to overlook until at least interviewing you.
 
In some ways it is kind of funny how we frame the discussion here.

We look at this as the applicant must have some significant flaw or red flag in order to not get any interest or acceptances yet but at the same time about 30% of applicants with these stats dont get into a single MD program every year. In other words, hardly some uncommon occurence. If you average the OP's MCAT scores as a number of schools and evaluators would, the MCAT comes out to a 35 and all of a sudden you are looking at about 35-40% of applicants with a 3.5/35 being empty handed at the end of the cycle. I agree there are flaws and there are clear weaknesses in the app, but part of this is just also unfortunate breaks and things that cant be accounted for in an online WAMC thread at play here. It's more than just saying something like "your red flag could be a LOR", there are so many elements at play in admissions decisions you cant capture in an online discussion. The best thing you can often say is a "3.55/38 applicant should get in somewhere or will more times than not". Sometimes the reasons why they dont arent as clear cut and cut and dry as we might make them out to be or perceive them to be.

I'll also add there is a lot of talk about the OP "aiming" way too high and needing to apply alot more safely. Not sure if the list really is the big issue here. As gyngyn will say all the time, alot of these lower tier schools people always talk about applying to on here do not interview too many people who hit 38 on the MCAT ordinarly for issues regarding "resource management". Not sure if the OP filling his list up with the NYMCs, Drexels and GWs of the world really would have made some major difference here. Furthermore, alot of these lower tier schools have a real mission to service like G-town, Loyola, Rush etc. There just isnt anything there in this app to make the OP a good fit for those schools.
 
From what OP posted, he should have gotten interviews some places, although not necessarilly from the top heavy schools indicated. My bet is the parts of his application we aren't seeing -- LORs and essays aren't compelling. Basically what we do see is an average GPA with a bunch of Ws, cookie cutter ECs, and a good, but retaken MCAT. If OP had applied to middle of pack schools and places not in the most popular cities things might have played out differently. That's probably how OP should play things going forward-- throw out the top third of the US news ranking list and all the popular Boston and DC schools, and apply to a wide range of what's left. We see this every couple of years on SDN -- someone who gets into their head that they belong at a top place, and don't apply to a big enough range to hedge their bets.
 
It would be at gyngyn's school!
I can see how retaking a good score to get maybe 1 more mark is viewed poorly, but improving from 80th percentile to 99th percentile shows a good recognition of the OP's potential. The schools I wanted specifically needed better than a 32, and I would have retaken one if I'd scored below 11 on any category, so I'm surprised.

For the OP, I guess the best you can do is call the schools and ask for feedback, and you could also ask your LOR writers if they have feedback. If you listen between the lines you might hear something about how they're not the best person to recommend you.

Your GPA is not great to apply top heavy. I know someone with a better MCAT than you (1 attempt) who didn't get in the first try because of this. You'll also want to seriously reconsider your personal statement, etc.
 
Do you mind explaining the Duke catastrophe? Sorry I don't know about it.

Little tough to explain, but go read the Duke 2014/15 thread starting around March. Lot of issues regarding letting people know about acceptances and some misinformation being given out.
 
Way too top heavy for your lackluster ECs, pile of Ws, and middling GPA. You'll probably get in next year just fine if you do some volunteering and get some clinical hours in, as well as apply to more mid and low tier schools. A mid-tier will probably snag you if you apply to enough of them, but you don't really have a good group of safeties on your list.

While the W's are kind of a red flag, not too big, I think his ECs are pretty good. Comparable to a lot of kids or better than a lot of students at my school. Maybe get some non-clinical volunteering but he is set if he applies broadly.
 
In some ways it is kind of funny how we frame the discussion here.

We look at this as the applicant must have some significant flaw or red flag in order to not get any interest or acceptances yet but at the same time about 30% of applicants with these stats dont get into a single MD program every year. In other words, hardly some uncommon occurence. If you average the OP's MCAT scores as a number of schools and evaluators would, the MCAT comes out to a 35 and all of a sudden you are looking at about 35-40% of applicants with a 3.5/35 being empty handed at the end of the cycle. I agree there are flaws and there are clear weaknesses in the app, but part of this is just also unfortunate breaks and things that cant be accounted for in an online WAMC thread at play here. It's more than just saying something like "your red flag could be a LOR", there are so many elements at play in admissions decisions you cant capture in an online discussion. The best thing you can often say is a "3.55/38 applicant should get in somewhere or will more times than not". Sometimes the reasons why they dont arent as clear cut and cut and dry as we might make them out to be or perceive them to be.

I'll also add there is a lot of talk about the OP "aiming" way too high and needing to apply alot more safely. Not sure if the list really is the big issue here. As gyngyn will say all the time, alot of these lower tier schools people always talk about applying to on here do not interview too many people who hit 38 on the MCAT ordinarly for issues regarding "resource management". Not sure if the OP filling his list up with the NYMCs, Drexels and GWs of the world really would have made some major difference here. Furthermore, alot of these lower tier schools have a real mission to service like G-town, Loyola, Rush etc. There just isnt anything there in this app to make the OP a good fit for those schools.

You sir are correct. I was a re-applicant that got in the second time with a meh GPA and very top MCAT score. First round, very top tier programs interviewed me and very low tier ones interviewed me. I was WL'ed/rejected at low tiers because they thought I was going to Harvard/UCSF to do research, while in reality those top tier programs are hard even for people way smarter than me. Ignored by mid-tiers. I applied as broadly as possible.

Second round, same interview pattern in terms of tiers. I miraculously get into one of my reaches. It is hard being a high MCAT, Meh GPA applicant like ourselves. Aside from research/volunteer more, there is not much to be done. Research schools really stress that X-factor outside of research, while the low tiers really want a "man of the people" who does not care about research. In retrospect, I spoke too enthusiastically about research haha.
 
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There is something wrong with the applicant. They applied too topheavy for what their overall app is. Probably would have gotten in just fine if they added a mix of 5-10 low and 5-10 mid tiers.

Which schools qualify as "low" and "mid" tiers?? I'm genuinely curious. I see this all over SDN and have no idea how people define the tiers. For example, I would think George Washington, Georgetown and Tulane would at least be considered mid tier, if not low tier...
 
Which schools qualify as "low" and "mid" tiers?? I'm genuinely curious. I see this all over SDN and have no idea how people define the tiers. For example, I would think George Washington, Georgetown and Tulane would at least be considered mid tier, if not low tier...
I would say low tier are schools with MCAT avgerages/medians <33. Mid Tiers being 33-35. And top being >35? This is subjective but that's how I would categorize them.
 
The with this logic is that the top schools (except LizzyM's) seem to want you to get right the first time.


I can see how retaking a good score to get maybe 1 more mark is viewed poorly, but improving from 80th percentile to 99th percentile shows a good recognition of the OP's potential. The schools I wanted specifically needed better than a 32, and I would have retaken one if I'd scored below 11 on any category, so I'm surprised.

For the OP, I guess the best you can do is call the schools and ask for feedback, and you could also ask your LOR writers if they have feedback. If you listen between the lines you might hear something about how they're not the best person to recommend you.

Your GPA is not great to apply top heavy. I know someone with a better MCAT than you (1 attempt) who didn't get in the first try because of this. You'll also want to seriously reconsider your personal statement, etc.
 
Which schools qualify as "low" and "mid" tiers?? I'm genuinely curious. I see this all over SDN and have no idea how people define the tiers. For example, I would think George Washington, Georgetown and Tulane would at least be considered mid tier, if not low tier...
There are no tiers per se. People on SDN use the US News research ranking as a rough proxy for prestige, but any tiering is artificial and shouldn't be regarded as legit or accepted. But on top of that there are also a few cities (Boston, SF, DC, for example) which are simply popular cities for young people, and as a result the less prestigious schools in these regions still get thousands more applications than their "rank" would dictate, so you have to be careful of that as well. So if, for example, you applied only to top schools and geographically popular schools, you didn't really hedge your bets.
 
The with this logic is that the top schools (except LizzyM's) seem to want you to get right the first time.

Statistically most people score within 3 points, above or below, what they are getting on multiple full length practice tests. Meaning that if hypothetically you averaged a 34, then you shouldn't be surprised to end up with anything on the real test from a 31 to a 37, and probably shouldn't retake a 32-33 because you may well do worse. On top of that, at most schools a 32 won't keep you from getting in. Yes the average is higher at some places, but you are basically taking a score that is good enough to get into med school and putting it at risk for what in most cases will just be a couple of points at most. So it just looks really ill advised to score a 32 and retake. It looks better that OP got a 38, but it still comes off as ill advised. And finally someone who took it once and got a 37 is still going to look better than someone who took it twice and got a 38.
 
The with this logic is that the top schools (except LizzyM's) seem to want you to get right the first time.
Statistically most people score within 3 points, above or below, what they are getting on multiple full length practice tests. Meaning that if hypothetically you averaged a 34, then you shouldn't be surprised to end up with anything on the real test from a 31 to a 37, and probably shouldn't retake a 32-33 because you may well do worse. On top of that, at most schools a 32 won't keep you from getting in. Yes the average is higher at some places, but you are basically taking a score that is good enough to get into med school and putting it at risk for what in most cases will just be a couple of points at most. So it just looks really ill advised to score a 32 and retake. It looks better that OP got a 38, but it still comes off as ill advised. And finally someone who took it once and got a 37 is still going to look better than someone who took it twice and got a 38.

What about in a bizarre case when someone retook a 37 and scored a 41? Is it worse than someone who took it once and got a 41, even though the difference between a 37 and 41 is essentially statistically insignificant?
 
What about in a bizarre case when someone retook a 37 and scored a 41? Is it worse than someone who took it once and got a 41, even though the difference between a 37 and 41 is essentially statistically insignificant?

Retaking a 37 comes across as a rather poor decision in every sense. Whereas to some extent someone can justify retaking a 32 even if the overall decision is poor because there are some schools where a 32 wont cut it, there is no school where a 37 is not sufficient. Retaking a 37 is the type of thing that will single handedly lead to a rejection at gyngyn's school. I wouldnt be surprised if that's the only school that would react that way at all.

So yes, a 41 taken once>>>>>>>>37 then a 41.

I can honestly see both perspectives though about retaking a 32, especially in the OP's case. It isnt bad logic at surface value to think that since my GPA isnt as high as I would like at 3.55 especially with 4 W's that I might be able to compensate for it with boosting my MCAT. We can all agree that a 38 taken once with a 3.55 is superior to a 32 taken once with a 3.55. It's just retaking the 32 that is a whole separate can of worms.

One thing that could benefit applicants in this situation is if schools were a little more transparent about how they view multiple MCAT scores. By and large if you call schools they will tell you "well use the highest score" the majority of the time. This is misleading in every sense. I know of more than 1 school where people I know who work there personally tell me we usually average multiple MCAT scores as a policy for but for whom if you call will tell you on the phone "well use the highest score for admission purposes". At best this is disingenuous, at worst, it's much more than that. I get there is alot of grey area in evaluating MCAT retakes so schools dont like saying "we average" as a uniform policy(although some still do regardless) but taking it to the other extreme of misleading applicants I dont think is the solution.
 
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Statistically most people score within 3 points, above or below, what they are getting on multiple full length practice tests. Meaning that if hypothetically you averaged a 34, then you shouldn't be surprised to end up with anything on the real test from a 31 to a 37, and probably shouldn't retake a 32-33 because you may well do worse. On top of that, at most schools a 32 won't keep you from getting in. Yes the average is higher at some places, but you are basically taking a score that is good enough to get into med school and putting it at risk for what in most cases will just be a couple of points at most. So it just looks really ill advised to score a 32 and retake. It looks better that OP got a 38, but it still comes off as ill advised. And finally someone who took it once and got a 37 is still going to look better than someone who took it twice and got a 38.

All of this sounds exactly right, but, and this doesn't necessarily explain this particular case in this thread, it seems that applicants may be seeing lots of folks in the 30-33 range not getting in. And seeing that coupled with median scores rising at even the so-called "lower-tiers" one can understand how more and more applicants are going to get antsy sitting on a 31/32. And certainly, like this OP, applicants who have borderline GPAs may think they must compensate with a stellar MCAT score. Indeed, one could wonder where this applicant would be without the 38. Seems like there are a good number of people who find themselves in what might be called predicament zones and of course they are looking for some way to find land instead of drifting at sea with poor visibility.
 
Retaking a 37 comes across as a rather poor decision in every sense. Whereas to some extent someone can justify retaking a 32 even if the overall decision is poor because there are some schools where a 32 wont cut it, there is no school where a 37 is not sufficient. Retaking a 37 is the type of thing that will single handedly lead to a rejection at gyngyn's school. I wouldnt be surprised if that's the only school that would react that way at all.

Retaking a 37 doesn't have to be for app purposes, but could be because the old score expired; or the test taker was an MCAT instructor who retook the MCAT to ensure their MCAT skills were strong etc. before deciding to apply.

Subsection scores also make a difference and @gyngyn may know this better, but consider the following case:

Suppose someone got a 30 on the first try but it was horribly unbalanced (like a 15/8/7). They retake it and score a 39 (14/13/12). Would this be frowned upon by medical schools?
 
Retaking a 37 doesn't have to be for app purposes, but could be because the old score expired; or the test taker was an MCAT instructor who retook the MCAT to ensure their MCAT skills were strong etc. before deciding to apply.

Subsection scores also make a difference and @gyngyn may know this better, but consider the following case:

Suppose someone got a 30 on the first try but it was horribly unbalanced (like a 15/8/7). They retake it and score a 39 (14/13/12). Would this be frowned upon by medical schools?

Retaking an expired MCAT score is a completely different discussion.

While in theory saying "an MCAT prep company requires me to retake an MCAT score" sounds great I can tell you from personal experience I have never heard of a situation like this. If you hit the score a company wants their tutors to hit, that is all the official testing you need. Now what companies will do is have you do some of their practice tests and assess your skills "internally" to make sure you are still up to par but I have never heard of any company asking a tutor to spend $300 to retake a score that was good enough to make them interested in having them tutor. You gotta realize tutoring companies often actively try to seek out applicants for tutoring.

Ultimately there are always going to be extreme exceptions to the rule where retaking an unexpired 37 might be absolutely necessary but these are by and large just that, exceptions. You have to go by general guidelines when dealing with so many applicants and the types of characteristics most likely abundant with someone retaking a 37 are not favorable at all.

Unbalanced scores are also a separate discussion. A 30 with a 7 subsection is a far different story than a balanced 32. And even then there was a conversation about this the other day where gyngyn was talking about how the unbalanced MCATs are often tricky to advise and the solution isnt necessairly always just to retake 100% of the time.
 
One thing that could benefit applicants in this situation is if schools were a little more transparent about how they view multiple MCAT scores. By and large if you call schools they will tell you "well use the highest score" the majority of the time. This is misleading in every sense. I know of more than 1 school where people I know who work there personally tell me we usually average multiple MCAT scores as a policy for but for whom if you call will tell you on the phone "well use the highest score for admission purposes". At best this is disingenuous, at worst, it's much more than that. I get there is alot of grey area in evaluating MCAT retakes so schools dont like saying "we average" as a uniform policy(although some still do regardless) but taking it to the other extreme of misleading applicants I dont think is the solution.

School policy is essentially irrelevant. @gyngyn pointed out that adcoms/interviewers can't "unsee" scores. They are there. It sucks but it happens. That's why, at least for the MCAT of the same type (old and old, new and new etc.), the best metric is to average the two or more scores regardless of school policy. For old and new MCAT, I don't know if averaging will work as well because of the addition of P/S section and some other significant changes on the exam. The AAMC recommends to consider the new MCAT as the more accurate method. Easy to say that schools can just ignore the AAMC, but hey, the schools still follow the AAMC suggestion to average the MCAT scores of the same type.

All in all, averaging the scores is probably the best approach to deal with. It's accurate and stable.
 
School policy is essentially irrelevant. @gyngyn pointed out that adcoms/interviewers can't "unsee" scores. They are there. It sucks but it happens. That's why, at least for the MCAT of the same type (old and old, new and new etc.), the best metric is to average the two or more scores regardless of school policy. For old and new MCAT, I don't know if averaging will work as well because of the addition of P/S section and some other significant changes on the exam. The AAMC recommends to consider the new MCAT as the more accurate method. Easy to say that schools can just ignore the AAMC, but hey, the schools still follow the AAMC suggestion to average the MCAT scores of the same type.

All in all, averaging the scores is probably the best approach to deal with. It's accurate and stable.

There are limitations to the study that youll see cited all the time by the AAMC. I personally dont agree with a chunk of it. It's part of why there are still a good number that dont average multiple MCAT scores. That's hence where the confusion comes in and why school policy matters. It's hardly a situation where all schools just average multiple scores no questions asked and even if they did that's entirely my point; making it more transparent on the behalf of schools that this occurs is much more beneficial to applicants than giving this generic lip service of "we'll use the highest score" which is rather disingenuous when schools know they wont be doing this.
 
Retaking an expired MCAT score is a completely different discussion.

While in theory saying "an MCAT prep company requires me to retake an MCAT score" sounds great I can tell you from personal experience I have never heard of a situation like this. If you hit the score a company wants their tutors to hit, that is all the official testing you need. Now what companies will do is have you do some of their practice tests and assess your skills "internally" to make sure you are still up to par but I have never heard of any company asking a tutor to spend $300 to retake a score that was good enough to make them interested in having them tutor. You gotta realize tutoring companies often actively try to seek out applicants for tutoring.

Ultimately there are always going to be extreme exceptions to the rule where retaking an unexpired 37 might be absolutely necessary but these are by and large just that, exceptions. You have to go by general guidelines when dealing with so many applicants and the types of characteristics most likely abundant with someone retaking a 37 are not favorable at all.

Unbalanced scores are also a separate discussion. A 30 with a 7 subsection is a far different story than a balanced 32. And even then there was a conversation about this the other day where gyngyn was talking about how the unbalanced MCATs are often tricky to advise and the solution isnt necessairly always just to retake 100% of the time.

Well I thought Kaplan did something similar for their long-term tutors to make sure they're updated with the exam. NextStep likes to brag that their boss retook the MCAT several times and consistently scored 40+/523+ to show that they know the ins and outs of the exam. Sure they probably won't apply to medical school (or maybe even graduated from medical school and just doing it for fun). It's rare but it can happen.

Expired and unbalanced scores are major reasons why people retake seemingly good (i.e. 30s) scores. In OP's case, I agree with you that retaking a balanced 32 probably wasn't a good idea even though OP was scoring 39s in the practice tests. It's too risky, but for OP, retaking and scoring a 38 brings in the significance region since it's a 6-point improvement. Even averaging the two scores will result in a 35, which coupled with a 3.5, is a 70 LizzyM score.

Given his list, I would agree that his school list wasn't good. It was unnecessarily top-heavy coupled with rather average ECs (nothing really comes out as amazing). As such, the best idea would be to construct a better school list that tailors to a 3.5/35 applicant. I'm thinking more mid-tiers and perhaps some low-tiers (assuming they don't yield-protect OP for retaking a 32) are a good way to go.

There are limitations to the study that youll see cited all the time by the AAMC. I personally dont agree with a chunk of it. It's part of why there are still a good number that dont average multiple MCAT scores. That's hence where the confusion comes in and why school policy matters. It's hardly a situation where all schools just average multiple scores no questions asked and even if they did that's entirely my point; making it more transparent on the behalf of schools that this occurs is much more beneficial to applicants than giving this generic lip service of "we'll use the highest score" which is rather disingenuous when schools know they wont be doing this.

We can agree that school policy, while important, shouldn't be taken seriously/personally because what adcoms/interviewers etc. do may not align with the school policy. But the issue lies in the following:

1. AAMC advice is based on their own analysis of the MCAT (they make the exam after all) and on various studies that show the validity of various metrics in dealing with multiple MCAT scores. Most, if not all, studies show that averaging is the best method.

2. If MD schools average grade retakes for GPA calculations, averaging the MCAT scores is a natural extension. For DO schools where grade replacement happens, it wouldn't be surprising if they also take in only the highest MCAT score.
 
Well I thought Kaplan did something similar for their long-term tutors to make sure they're updated with the exam. NextStep likes to brag that their boss retook the MCAT several times and consistently scored 40+/523+ to show that they know the ins and outs of the exam. Sure they probably won't apply to medical school (or maybe even graduated from medical school and just doing it for fun). It's rare but it can happen.

Expired and unbalanced scores are major reasons why people retake seemingly good (i.e. 30s) scores. In OP's case, I agree with you that retaking a balanced 32 probably wasn't a good idea even though OP was scoring 39s in the practice tests. It's too risky, but for OP, retaking and scoring a 38 brings in the significance region since it's a 6-point improvement. Even averaging the two scores will result in a 35, which coupled with a 3.5, is a 70 LizzyM score.

Given his list, I would agree that his school list wasn't good. It was unnecessarily top-heavy coupled with rather average ECs (nothing really comes out as amazing). As such, the best idea would be to construct a better school list that tailors to a 3.5/35 applicant. I'm thinking more mid-tiers and perhaps some low-tiers (assuming they don't yield-protect OP for retaking a 32) are a good way to go.

When gyngyn says we wont interview people who retake high scores he prefaces it by saying we wont interview people who retake high unexpired scores. The expired vs unexpired discussion makes all the difference.

There's alot of talk on school list but Im not necessairly so sure that's really the big issue. Another thing youll hear alot is how these lower tier schools like GW, NYMC, Drexel etc interview relatively few people who hit 38 on the MCAT because the yield is so low. You have 10+k apps to sort through and know this person has a 38 which is 2-3 points above your 90th percentile MCAT. Those schools probably only accept say roughly around a dozen applicants a year with a 38(key word accept the number that matriculate is lower). In a number of cases, why bother with someone who hits a 38. Retaking a 32 is almost telegraphing to that lower tier school you are looking beyond them. Of those dozen that get accepted in a number of cases they probably either a) A good reason to believe theyll actually go there if accepted(them being local could be one big factor or having connections to the school) b) an applicant who really fits the mission statement well c) an applicant they like so much that they would be willing to throw serious merit money to and think they can lure that way. Like I said above, I dont think OP fits any of these categories. Likewise, many lower tier schools like Creighton, Rush, Loyola, G-town etc have a strong mission to service. OP doesnt have that.

Ultimately its tempting to just blame the school list because its an easy fix. But like I said there were a number of factors at play here and they all added up to create the perfect storm per se. And none of this will matter at all if OP gets into Utah.
 
Think of this more in terms of LizzyM scores. At best, the guy has a 73 and the consensus seems to be he really has a 70 given the belief about averaging MCATs. Without the re-take, we're looking at a 67+. This seems like a case where "low-tiers" wouldn't necessarily think the guy is only considering higher tiers because of the relatively low GPA. He's not actually very competitive for top tiers, which all schools must know. And you can look at the re-take to a 38 as an effort to become competitive at ANY MD school, given that 32/3.56 without URM and without anything else dramatically outstanding makes him borderline even for the "low-tiers." Again, the 38 may stand out as some kind of semi-red flag, but where would he be without it?
 
Think of this more in terms of LizzyM scores. At best, the guy has a 73 and the consensus seems to be he really has a 70 given the belief about averaging MCATs. Without the re-take, we're looking at a 67+. This seems like a case where "low-tiers" wouldn't necessarily think the guy is only considering higher tiers because of the relatively low GPA. He's not actually very competitive for top tiers, which all schools must know. And you can look at the re-take to a 38 as an effort to become competitive at ANY MD school, given that 32/3.56 without URM and without anything else dramatically outstanding makes him borderline even for the "low-tiers." Again, the 38 may stand out as some kind of semi-red flag, but where would he be without it?

The paradox is that OP with just a 32 would be better off than in the case of a 32/38. Why? Because the low tiers won't feel brushed off by OP for retaking the 32. Regarding top tiers? Retaking would generally help provided everything else in OP's app is extremely strong. That's obviously not the case here.

When gyngyn says we wont interview people who retake high scores he prefaces it by saying we wont interview people who retake high unexpired scores. The expired vs unexpired discussion makes all the difference.

There's alot of talk on school list but Im not necessairly so sure that's really the big issue. Another thing youll hear alot is how these lower tier schools like GW, NYMC, Drexel etc interview relatively few people who hit 38 on the MCAT because the yield is so low. You have 10+k apps to sort through and know this person has a 38 which is 2-3 points above your 90th percentile MCAT. Those schools probably only accept say roughly around a dozen applicants a year with a 38(key word accept the number that matriculate is lower). In a number of cases, why bother with someone who hits a 38. Retaking a 32 is almost telegraphing to that lower tier school you are looking beyond them. Of those dozen that get accepted in a number of cases they probably either a) A good reason to believe theyll actually go there if accepted(them being local could be one big factor or having connections to the school) b) an applicant who really fits the mission statement well c) an applicant they like so much that they would be willing to throw serious merit money to and think they can lure that way. Like I said above, I dont think OP fits any of these categories. Likewise, many lower tier schools like Creighton, Rush, Loyola, G-town etc have a strong mission to service. OP doesnt have that.

Ultimately its tempting to just blame the school list because its an easy fix. But like I said there were a number of factors at play here and they all added up to create the perfect storm per se. And none of this will matter at all if OP gets into Utah.

If anything, it seems like (and this is a huge stretch) that OP is trying to set his app for the top tiers by focusing on research and deciding to retake a balanced 32 to get a 38). Alas, with the lack of interesting things on his app (especially more on service related ECs), it really doesn't provide a convincing case for the low and low/mid tier schools.

But I agree. Earlier posts indicate that OP has a strong chance in getting into Utah so it's just a moot point in the end.
 
We can agree that school policy, while important, shouldn't be taken seriously/personally because what adcoms/interviewers etc. do may not align with the school policy. But the issue lies in the following:

1. AAMC advice is based on their own analysis of the MCAT (they make the exam after all) and on various studies that show the validity of various metrics in dealing with multiple MCAT scores. Most, if not all, studies show that averaging is the best method.

2. If MD schools average grade retakes for GPA calculations, averaging the MCAT scores is a natural extension. For DO schools where grade replacement happens, it wouldn't be surprising if they also take in only the highest MCAT score.

The AAMC has done alot of studies that schools dont follow. The AAMC doesnt want schools comparing the old and new MCAT. The AAMC doesnt approve of how schools use scores such as a 513 vs 520 as means of distinguishing applicants and that the 513 gets discriminated against. They want the test in some sense to be a competency test per se, they dont want schools looking at 32's and saying "that's too low for us, we arent interested in this applicant because of that 32". But we know schools dont oblige to these principles. Ultimately its up to each school and evaluator to follow their own judgment and decide what they think is best. Just blindly following AAMC policies and saying "because AAMC makes the test and tells us to average, we have to average scores" isnt really how admission works nor should it.

We already know of DO schools like Goro's that use grade replacement but average multiple MCAT scores. They are separate components to an application, there's no point just saying since we dont average scores of one academic metric we cant average scores of another.
 
The paradox is that OP with just a 32 would be better off than in the case of a 32/38. Why? Because the low tiers won't feel brushed off by OP for retaking the 32. Regarding top tiers? Retaking would generally help provided everything else in OP's app is extremely strong. That's obviously not the case here.

This is a good question. Very easy to imagine the same OP standing pat with the 32 and a 32/3.56 profile and having thread just like this one (i.e. looks like I'm not getting in) even if he had just applied to the full range of "low-tiers." As was noted much earlier in the thread, the 38 is the one (only?) thing the OP has that stands out.
 
The AAMC has done alot of studies that schools dont follow. The AAMC doesnt want schools comparing the old and new MCAT. The AAMC doesnt approve of how schools use scores such as a 513 vs 520 as means of distinguishing applicants and that the 513 gets discriminated against. They want the test in some sense to be a competency test per se, they dont want schools looking at 32's and saying "that's too low for us, we arent interested in this applicant because of that 32". But we know schools dont oblige to these principles. Ultimately its up to each school and evaluator to follow their own judgment and decide what they think is best. Just blindly following AAMC policies and saying "because AAMC makes the test and tells us to average, we have to average scores" isnt really how admission works nor should it.

We already know of DO schools like Goro's that use grade replacement but average multiple MCAT scores. They are separate components to an application, there's no point just saying since we dont average scores of one academic metric we cant average scores of another.

Aren't more schools shifting towards competency-based evaluation for prereqs? Schools certainly aren't obligated to follow AAMC guidelines just like they don't follow their own policy of multiple MCAT retakes. It's a group decision on many factors that ultimately determines whether the applicant gets interviewed and accepted. I'm just saying that AAMC guidelines aren't something that's easily tossed aside. And the studies that back the AAMC guidelines have their merits.

I know they are separate but it's a possible explanation why MD schools can justify their decision to average the MCAT retakes. I don't know why DO schools like Goro's would average multiple scores but are okay with grade replacement. That is self-contradictory in many ways, but in the end, it's really to the adcom policy and ultimate decisions, which is all done behind close doors.

This is a good question. Very easy to imagine the same OP standing pat with the 32 and a 32/3.56 profile and having thread just like this one (i.e. looks like I'm not getting in) even if he had just applied to the full range of "low-tiers." As was noted much earlier in the thread, the 38 is the one (only?) thing the OP has that stands out.

But would that really happen? Such borderline applicants at least can show seriousness to low tiers without having to be brushed aside for retaking and scoring much higher.
 
When gyngyn says we wont interview people who retake high scores he prefaces it by saying we wont interview people who retake high unexpired scores. The expired vs unexpired discussion makes all the difference.

There's alot of talk on school list but Im not necessairly so sure that's really the big issue. Another thing youll hear alot is how these lower tier schools like GW, NYMC, Drexel etc interview relatively few people who hit 38 on the MCAT because the yield is so low. You have 10+k apps to sort through and know this person has a 38 which is 2-3 points above your 90th percentile MCAT. Those schools probably only accept say roughly around a dozen applicants a year with a 38(key word accept the number that matriculate is lower). In a number of cases, why bother with someone who hits a 38. Retaking a 32 is almost telegraphing to that lower tier school you are looking beyond them. Of those dozen that get accepted in a number of cases they probably either a) A good reason to believe theyll actually go there if accepted(them being local could be one big factor or having connections to the school) b) an applicant who really fits the mission statement well c) an applicant they like so much that they would be willing to throw serious merit money to and think they can lure that way. Like I said above, I dont think OP fits any of these categories. Likewise, many lower tier schools like Creighton, Rush, Loyola, G-town etc have a strong mission to service. OP doesnt have that.

Ultimately its tempting to just blame the school list because its an easy fix. But like I said there were a number of factors at play here and they all added up to create the perfect storm per se. And none of this will matter at all if OP gets into Utah.

I agree with this interpretation and I'll amend my previous post stating that I would definitely retake a 32 with the fact that MCAT averages at MD/PhD programs are between 35-->39 for fully funded programs that matriculate between 5-->20 people a year so it would be more about guarding my chances of getting in anywhere (where I wouldn't have to pay or compete for my own funding beyond the application process) rather than trying to get an interview at Harvard instead of a less competitive school. I would not recommend retaking a 32 to anyone else. Especially with the new MCAT, studying for it is just too much of a hassle and your efforts are best spent elsewhere.

That being said, adcoms are not all the same and some schools might not mind the retake. It's like LizzyM once remarked to her colleague who said "Who retakes a 32?" about an applicant who went from 32-->38 or something similar, "Somebody who wants to go to this school." I dont think the MCAT retake will be the deciding factor for this applicant with a broad enough school list so we should just leave it at that and not derail this thread from providing the OP with actionable advice - what's done is done.
 
I agree with this interpretation and I'll amend my previous post stating that I would definitely retake a 32 because MCAT averages at MD/PhD programs are between 35-->39 for fully funded programs that matriculate between 5-->20 people a year so it would be more about guarding my chances of getting in anywhere (where I wouldn't have to pay or compete for my own funding beyond the application process) rather than trying to get an interview at Harvard instead of a less competitive school. I would not recommend retaking a 32 to anyone else. Especially with the MCAT, studying for it is just too much of a hassle and your efforts are best spent elsewhere.

That being said, adcoms are not all the same and some schools might not mind the retake. It's like LizzyM once remarked to her colleague who said "Who retakes a 32?" about an applicant who went from 32-->38 or something similar, "Somebody who wants to go to this school." I dont think the MCAT retake will be the deciding factor for this applicant with a broad enough school list so we should just leave it at that and not derail this thread from providing the OP with actionable advice - what's done is done.

It's a case by case basis. I do think that is still true. In that case, you would really have to have another wise outstanding application ot retake a 32 and also have a really strong reason to want an MD/PhD and not just an MD only.

You do also have to realize LizzyM is the first person wholl tell you her school is by and large numbers-******. I think she's said 80%+ of people they interview have a 74+ LizzyM score and that the 10th percentile MCAT at her school is a 33 I think she's said in the past. So yes, a 32 is too low, no doubt about it. But people shouldnt base rules about exceptions to the rule like this(also keep in mind her school averages multiple MCATs 32----->38 comes out to a 35 which is still below avg there). You gotta think bigger picture. Look I know of multiple people who had 31's and 32's who retook it to 37+ and got into top 20 schools. They wouldnt have gotten in with that 31-32. So yes, the retake was the difference for them.

But people really have to be honest with themselves, their application and the MCAT retake statistics. Only 30% of people who retake that type of score get 3+ points better and all those people who get that score are pretty smart to begin with. If you really are a top notch applicant in every other sense except for that 31 and think you can do alot better, sure consider a retake. Just realize the consequences, both good and bad.

One way to look at is retaking a 32 can open some doors, but it also can close some or at least make them harder to open as well. Whether the doors opened by retaking a 32 outweigh the doors closed by retaking a 32 is something only an applicant can decide, but it is a real decision to make. Every MCAT attempt has consequences, for better and worse.
 
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I agree with this interpretation and I'll amend my previous post stating that I would definitely retake a 32 with the fact that MCAT averages at MD/PhD programs are between 35-->39 for fully funded programs that matriculate between 5-->20 people a year so it would be more about guarding my chances of getting in anywhere (where I wouldn't have to pay or compete for my own funding beyond the application process) rather than trying to get an interview at Harvard instead of a less competitive school. I would not recommend retaking a 32 to anyone else. Especially with the new MCAT, studying for it is just too much of a hassle and your efforts are best spent elsewhere.

That being said, adcoms are not all the same and some schools might not mind the retake. It's like LizzyM once remarked to her colleague who said "Who retakes a 32?" about an applicant who went from 32-->38 or something similar, "Somebody who wants to go to this school." I dont think the MCAT retake will be the deciding factor for this applicant with a broad enough school list so we should just leave it at that and not derail this thread from providing the OP with actionable advice - what's done is done.
It's a case by case basis. I do think that is still true. In that case, you would really have to have another wise outstanding application ot retake a 32 and also have a really strong reason to want an MD/PhD and not just an MD only.

You do also have to realize LizzyM is the first person wholl tell you her school is by and large numbers-******. I think she's said 80%+ of people they interview have a 74+ LizzyM score and that the 10th percentile MCAT at her school is a 33 I think she's said in the past. So yes, a 32 is too low, no doubt about it. But people shouldnt base rules about exceptions to the rule like this(also keep in mind her school averages multiple MCATs 32----->38 comes out to a 35 which is still below avg there). You gotta think bigger picture. Look I know of multiple people who had 31's and 32's who retook it to 37+ and got into top 20 schools. They wouldnt have gotten in with that 31-32. So yes, the retake was the difference for them.

But people really have to be honest with themselves, their application and the MCAT retake statistics. Only 30% of people who retake that type of score get 3+ points better and all those people who get that score are pretty smart to begin with. If you really are a top notch applicant in every other sense except for that 31 and think you can do alot better, sure consider a retake. Just realize the consequences, both good and bad.

One way to look at is retaking a 32 can open some doors, but it also can close some or at least make them harder to open as well. Whether the doors opened by retaking a 32 outweigh the doors closed by retaking a 32 is something only an applicant can decide, but it is a real decision to make. Every MCAT attempt has consequences, for better and worse.

I think adcoms and schools are aware of the fact that retaking from sub-30 to upper-30s/low-40s is an impressive accomplishment, especially considering all the data emphasizing that many score the same or even lower in the retake. For this reason, regardless of what prompted the applicant to retake, a much higher score in the retake can be looked favorably.

Emphasize on can and not should. People tend to miss that for some reason.
 
I agree with this interpretation and I'll amend my previous post stating that I would definitely retake a 32 with the fact that MCAT averages at MD/PhD programs are between 35-->39 for fully funded programs that matriculate between 5-->20 people a year so it would be more about guarding my chances of getting in anywhere (where I wouldn't have to pay or compete for my own funding beyond the application process) rather than trying to get an interview at Harvard instead of a less competitive school. I would not recommend retaking a 32 to anyone else. Especially with the new MCAT, studying for it is just too much of a hassle and your efforts are best spent elsewhere.

That being said, adcoms are not all the same and some schools might not mind the retake. It's like LizzyM once remarked to her colleague who said "Who retakes a 32?" about an applicant who went from 32-->38 or something similar, "Somebody who wants to go to this school." I dont think the MCAT retake will be the deciding factor for this applicant with a broad enough school list so we should just leave it at that and not derail this thread from providing the OP with actionable advice - what's done is don

MD/PhD Admissions is a whole different ballgame and I recommend talking to someone involved at your home program. I found my discussions to be helpful in deciding not to apply for MSTP, but one takeaway I got was that MCAT was not as important. It was more of a checkbox, i.e. they would not rank an applicant with a 36 over one with a 33. But this was only one program whose MD/PhD admissions were essentially separate from their MD admissions, certain programs have both the MD committee and a MD/PhD committee review applicants.
 
A lot of people here are being asses to the OP :/ Getting up in arms about how OP chose to retake a 32? If you think you can do better, you retake the test. You don't choose not to retake it just because the average test-taker doesn't improve much from a 32, if at all. The "average" doesn't apply to you if you are not average (as can be determined based off of practice tests, etc.).

I can see that OP's list of schools is a bit top heavy, but can you blame him? "Top" schools seem to be more relaxed about GPA so long as the MCAT demonstrates proficiency. A 38 is a great, great score, and I think that many schools would be willing to let the 3.56 GPA slide for that type of score.
Although you can't completely BLAME OP, I'm sure that OP has learned a big lesson here that high MCAT doesn't fix everything, so he/she should consider adding some middle/lower tier schools to the list for next year.

His/her clinical hours really aren't bad either.
He/she did apply to a lot of "mission-focused"/community-service orientated schools like Rush, Loyola, and Tulane, which isn't really reflected on their app.

I feel like the major factors for the lack of interviews were probably the quality of the letters of rec and quality of the essays. With that in mind, I think that OP can trim the "suspect" letter(s) and acquire new ones from people who see him in a better light from his/her work this year. I'm sure that with these better letters (i.e. tossing the bad letters), higher quality essays, and a more strategized school list, OP will have no problem getting plenty of interviews next year!
 
Admissions criteria are based upon the beliefs/notions/doctrines of the Dean and/or Admissions Dean. Some schools place an emphasis on high MCATs, others like high GPAs.

Without grade replacement, you're eliminate some 4-5000 applicants from contention. The philosophy of DO admissions is that the you of now is not the you of then. the trouble is, MCAT is closer to now rather than then.

Another way of looking at it is that MD schools are much less tolerant of your screwing up in UG, because they can get plenty of people who don't do that the first time out.

As NL has been pointing out, too many of you are focusing on they MCAT of 38, when there are a lot more concerns (I wouldn't call them red flags) about the OP's entire app.



I know they are separate but it's a possible explanation why MD schools can justify their decision to average the MCAT retakes. I don't know why DO schools like Goro's would average multiple scores but are okay with grade replacement. That is self-contradictory in many ways, but in the end, it's really to the adcom policy and ultimate decisions, which is all done behind close doors.


The logic described here might be OK for LizzyM's school, but it's actually a very pernicious one. People who retake a perfectly good, competitive score because they "think they can do better":

a) usually don't
b) are perfectionists, who will:
b1) be in office arguing over why their 96 exam score should really be a 97
OR
b2) attempt to learn everything, and end up learning nothing.
b3) tend not to trust their classmates or team members.
c) don't impress many Adcom members with ths logic, because they expect you to do better the first time around.
d) everyone thinks they're above average, and magic will happen to them.


A lot of people here are being asses to the OP :/ Getting up in arms about how OP chose to retake a 32? If you think you can do better, you retake the test. You don't choose not to retake it just because the average test-taker doesn't improve much from a 32, if at all. The "average" doesn't apply to you if you are not average (as can be determined based off of practice tests, etc.).
 
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Admissions criteria are based upon the beliefs/notions/doctrines of the Dean and/or Admissions Dean. Some schools place an emphasis on high MCATs, others like high GPAs.

Without grade replacement, you're eliminate some 4-5000 applicants from contention. The philosophy of DO admissions is that the you of now is not the you of then. the trouble is, MCAT is closer to now rather than then.

Another way of looking at it is that MD schools are much less tolerant of your screwing up in UG, because they can get plenty of people who don't do that the first time out.

As NL has been pointing out, too many of you are focusing on they MCAT of 38, when there are a lot more concerns (I wouldn't call them red flags) about the OP's entire app.

I think OP made the mistake of focusing too much on his stellar MCAT as well (as evidenced by thread titled - 'I have a 38 why am I not getting in'). Another thing people seem to forget is that your reason for wanting to be a doctor and communicating that to schools effectively is huge.
 
I feel like the only problem is school selection. The rest is bad luck

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Admissions criteria are based upon the beliefs/notions/doctrines of the Dean and/or Admissions Dean. Some schools place an emphasis on high MCATs, others like high GPAs.

Without grade replacement, you're eliminate some 4-5000 applicants from contention. The philosophy of DO admissions is that the you of now is not the you of then. the trouble is, MCAT is closer to now rather than then.

Another way of looking at it is that MD schools are much less tolerant of your screwing up in UG, because they can get plenty of people who don't do that the first time out.

As NL has been pointing out, too many of you are focusing on they MCAT of 38, when there are a lot more concerns (I wouldn't call them red flags) about the OP's entire app.

Hm that's interesting thanks. So it provides another justification for averaging the MCAT scores.

Yes i realize we've been focusing intensely on the MCAT but the discussion is warranted because OP is signaling his MCAT score in the thread title and relying on the high score to compensate for his meh ECs and GPA
 
I wonder, hypothetically, what would have happened if OP had gone to a top ranked school like JHU, UChicago, Cornell, etc known for grade deflation. Would the grades have been enough in that case? I would think not but its an interesting situation to look at, especially since the applications were mainly to top private medical schools.
 
I wonder, hypothetically, what would have happened if OP had gone to a top ranked school like JHU, UChicago, Cornell, etc known for grade deflation. Would the grades have been enough in that case?
On no you didn't
 
Hey guys,

So here are my stats and ec's.
-38 MCAT 3.56 GPA (pretty even between science and nonscience)
-Children's Hospital Volunteer (120hrs)
-OR Volunteer (45hrs)
-Shadowed 2 ER docs (50hrs)
-Teaching Assistant for 2 semesters in intro biology
-Research Assistant for 2 years working on a publication
-then some work and ec stuff (tutor, canyoneering, intramural captain, manager at a cafeteria)

I applied in July and then sent most of my secondaries in between August and September. Here is my list of schools I think I may have applied too top heavy.
Einstein
Boston
Case Western
Columbia
Duke
Emory
George Washington
Georgetown
USC
Loyola
Rush
Thomas Jefferson
Ohio State
Miami
Tulane
UCSD
UCSF
Utah

I am from Utah and did get an interview there and am waiting to hear back. I guess I am just surprised I didn't get more interviews and would like some outside perspective. The only thing I can think of is that either one of my letter writers wasn't very favorable or the 5 Ws on my transcript (2 were science prereqs) were viewed very negatively.

Thanks
How long did u study for the mcat for the 38?
 
How long did u study for the mcat for the 38?
I studied for about 3.5 months before I took it the first time and then spent three weeks prepping for the second but I took it right after and also tutored for the test in between.
 
In some ways it is kind of funny how we frame the discussion here.

We look at this as the applicant must have some significant flaw or red flag in order to not get any interest or acceptances yet but at the same time about 30% of applicants with these stats dont get into a single MD program every year. In other words, hardly some uncommon occurence. If you average the OP's MCAT scores as a number of schools and evaluators would, the MCAT comes out to a 35 and all of a sudden you are looking at about 35-40% of applicants with a 3.5/35 being empty handed at the end of the cycle. I agree there are flaws and there are clear weaknesses in the app, but part of this is just also unfortunate breaks and things that cant be accounted for in an online WAMC thread at play here. It's more than just saying something like "your red flag could be a LOR", there are so many elements at play in admissions decisions you cant capture in an online discussion. The best thing you can often say is a "3.55/38 applicant should get in somewhere or will more times than not". Sometimes the reasons why they dont arent as clear cut and cut and dry as we might make them out to be or perceive them to be.

I'll also add there is a lot of talk about the OP "aiming" way too high and needing to apply alot more safely. Not sure if the list really is the big issue here. As gyngyn will say all the time, alot of these lower tier schools people always talk about applying to on here do not interview too many people who hit 38 on the MCAT ordinarly for issues regarding "resource management". Not sure if the OP filling his list up with the NYMCs, Drexels and GWs of the world really would have made some major difference here. Furthermore, alot of these lower tier schools have a real mission to service like G-town, Loyola, Rush etc. There just isnt anything there in this app to make the OP a good fit for those schools.

Great analysis, I would just add one point


I don't know about that because I actually emailed the people who created the AAMC chart ( back when I was stressed about not getting in), they don't average scores, they take the most recent one. So OP's stats would be more like those with a 3.8 and a 3.5.
The acceptance rates for those stats, assuming he is white would be 72%
 
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