3rd/4th yr rotations set ups?

[ocwaveoc]

Hey guys,
Do all/most of the allo schools have all of the 3/4th yr clinicals set up already? If there are electives, is it expected that the student finds his/her own rotation and look for housing on his/her own as well?
Thanks.

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[lord_jeebus]

Generally a US school will have all core clinical rotations set up at its teaching hospital(s). Electives may either be done there too, which is easier to set up, or at pretty much any other school, where you usually will have to sign up, fill out forms, find housing, etc.

 

[drizzt3117]

Fourth year rotations usually include electives, so I wouldn't say that most schools set those up, although they probably make it easy to do them at their local hospital in some cases. I'm not sure how easy it is to do a rotation in a really competitive speciality at your home institution, perhaps one of the current med students would be able to shed more light on that.

 

[Law2Doc]

Hey guys,
Do all/most of the allo schools have all of the 3/4th yr clinicals set up already? If there are electives, is it expected that the student finds his/her own rotation and look for housing on his/her own as well?
Thanks.

Agree with the above. At most schools, your third year courses are the cores, and so you don't have a lot of choices except maybe the order. In 4th year you get largely electives, but they are mostly going to be done at your home school so you don't really have to set up anything or find new housing -- each department that isn't a core runs its own rotations. You can also do away rotations at other programs (a good idea if you are trying to get into a particular program) which you may have to set up on your own; housing for that is usually on your own.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm not sure how easy it is to do a rotation in a really competitive speciality at your home institution, perhaps one of the current med students would be able to shed more light on that.

Not hard at all -- basically all specialties run 4th year electives. But if it's not something you are likely to go into or get into you are wasting an elective.

 

[drizzt3117]

Not hard at all -- basically all specialties run 4th year electives. But if it's not something you are likely to go into or get into you are wasting an elective.

Well, my question is something like, say... doing an elective rotation in either a competitive early match speciality like urology, or a rare speciality like combined plastics. I know that the outside rotations are pretty competitive and many applicants for them are turned down, but is this typically true for students from that home institution? Let's say you were at UCLA and wanted to do a rotation in plastics, would they just make room for you to do it, or would you have to compete against students from other schools?

 

[lord_jeebus]

Not hard at all -- basically all specialties run 4th year electives. But if it's not something you are likely to go into or get into you are wasting an elective.

I would beg to differ here. It may be your only opportunity in your career to do something interesting but different (eg. participate in a forensic autopsy) or develop skills or knowledge that will help down the road but may not be part of further residency training (eg. urology for a future primary care internist, rad onc for a future surgical oncologist, radiology for pretty much everyone...)

I think a lot of people focus their electives in their field of interest and miss out on some learning opportunities as a result.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Well, my question is something like, say... doing an elective rotation in either a competitive early match speciality like urology, or a rare speciality like combined plastics. I know that the outside rotations are pretty competitive and many applicants for them are turned down, but is this typically true for students from that home institution? Let's say you were at UCLA and wanted to do a rotation in plastics, would they just make room for you to do it, or would you have to compete against students from other schools?

My school gives priority to its own students, and I imagine this is the case at most places. We have a lottery system and it is pretty easy to get what you want within a reasonable timeframe. Competitive residencies are generally easy to get into as a 4th year because most people aren't applying to it, as opposed to basic electives like a Medicine Sub-I where many people want to get it early and may not get their month or hospital site of choice.

One of my away rotations was specially designed for visiting students and was not open to the local students (although they had a similar parallel clerkship).

 

[drizzt3117]

My school gives priority to its own students, and I imagine this is the case at most places. We have a lottery system and it is pretty easy to get what you want within a reasonable timeframe. Competitive residencies are generally easy to get into as a 4th year because most people aren't applying to it, as opposed to basic electives like a Medicine Sub-I where many people want to get it early and may not get their month or hospital site of choice.

One of my away rotations was specially designed for visiting students and was not open to the local students (although they had a similar parallel clerkship).

That makes sense. Are away rotations going to confer a serious advantage in residency matches at that particular institution assuming good performance during the rotation? I suppose any evidence is going to be anedoctal in any case.

 

[Law2Doc]

That makes sense. Are away rotations going to confer a serious advantage in residency matches at that particular institution assuming good performance during the rotation? I suppose any evidence is going to be anedoctal in any case.

It is basically an audition. If you do an away rotation and everyone loves you, it improves your chances of that institution ranking you highly in the match. But reportedly equally common are folks who do away rotations and don't impress -- in such cases they would have probably done better at such institution if they hadn't ever done the audition. So if you do one, plan to be "on" for the whole rotation -- you must put a good foot forward.

 

[lord_jeebus]

That makes sense. Are away rotations going to confer a serious advantage in residency matches at that particular institution assuming good performance during the rotation? I suppose any evidence is going to be anedoctal in any case.

Like all things, it depends on the school and the field.

I think the primary utility of my away rotations was to really learn about the qualities of a program of interest. Highlighting differences in the way things are done between institutions also has given me a better idea of what I'm looking for in a program and what to ask about during interviews.

 

[drizzt3117]

Most of the information I've heard regarding the match is from my brother who recently matched into urology. I guess the take home regarding really competitive residency matches is that it's kind of difficult to break out of your region (although certainly not impossible). Does that seem to be other people's experiences as well? I guess it's understandable b/c if you have a home institution MS4 that is very qualified and you're really familiar with them, you might just go with them unless the outside candidates are overwhelmingly impressive.

 

[t33sg1rl]

Not hard at all -- basically all specialties run 4th year electives. But if it's not something you are likely to go into or get into you are wasting an elective.

Just a quick disagreement-rotating in something you'll never see again is definitely not a waste of time. Going into Family Practice? Emergency med would be useful, as would Derm-most people are going to bring their nasty itchy ooziness to you while they wait months for a non-cosmetic Derm appointment. Going into Medicine? Radiology elective will serve you well-my Medicine residents can read chest X rays well, but forget an abdominal CT-they don't even know where to start. Surgery? Path elective would be helpful... it'd be nice for you to know what happens to the things you remove.

Remember, too, that you'll be tested on everything on Step 3, so if there's something that you barely passed 3rd year, it might behoove you to spend some time brushing up 4th year. This is your LAST chance to see things that don't relate to your future specialty, so don't waste it.

 

[Law2Doc]

...as would Derm-most people are going to bring their nasty itchy ooziness to you while they wait months for a non-cosmetic Derm appointment. Going into Medicine? Radiology elective will serve you well-my Medicine residents can read chest X rays well, but forget an abdominal CT-they don't even know where to start. ...

For liability reasons you probably aren't going to want to go ahead and do your own Derm or Rads consult even if you somehow felt competent in the field by virtue of a couple month rotation (which you won't). If you do such, you might want to double up on your insurance coverage.

I didn't mean you wouldn't do something that actually relates or might be useful to a field you may go into (like EM might be for FM or surgery). But if you are going into FM, you probably wouldn't want to do a rad onc rotation, etc.

 

[ocwaveoc]

Thank you for your inputs.
The reason for my question is that a school I interviewed at has a month of elective during the 3rd year and 22 weeks of electives during the second year. This school specifically stated that these electives need to be set up by the student along with housing. By the way, this school has no teaching hospital. I'm sort of concerned with this arrangement since I really don't want to be searching for programs and places to live. I mean, in total I need to look for 6-7 rotations along with housing on my own. What the H e l l is that? I would like the option of staying at the teaching hospital or going away...not be forced to look for stuff on my own!

This school has stated that the 4th year rotations are mainly audition rotations as one of the posters here stated. As he stated, I guess if you make a good impression, you are a shoe in. But, if not, you are worse off than if you didn't do the audition rotation there. I'm not sure how I feel about this.

So, my question is, which allo schools don't have teaching hospitals so that the students need to look for their own 4th year electives and find housing on their own?

Thanks