3rd year clinics + student-patient ratio

[JEWmongous]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Could pod students comment on how many students are in a treatment room for 1 patient during the third year? I am only asking this question because I assumed it was all 1-on-1 (with attendings/residents around) until I completed an internship at OCPM. The students said they have to buddy up on patients (2-on-1).

How does it work at the other pod programs???

 

[streetsweeper]

In CA it's 1 on 1 even for 2nd years. But on slow days you pair up (optional) just to keep busy.

 

[Feli]

1:1 is the standard... see the patient, present to the attending, do your workup. 4th year students (and maybe residents) are there to help out, but they are mostly backups unless there are charts waiting when all the 3rd years are already seeing a patient. You will see 2+ students in the exam room from time to time to observe interesting pathology, procedures, etc. However, after the first couple weeks in clinic, two or more students seeing each patient certainly shouldn't be the standard IMO.

I'd say an average of 5-10 patients seen per student per day is about the standard... maybe a bit less during the first couple months of clinics when you are real slow at doing workups and writing notes.

 

[JEWmongous]

Thanks for the info so far, appreciate it. It did sound quite odd when I heard that from OCPM students. During the 3rd year there is a one month VA rotation which seemed to have a lot of patients and provide a good amt of hands on training. However, the students only get to go in every other week and fridays are a half day. Overall, you are rotating through the VA about 5 full days throughout your month long rotation (M/W/half F). Pretty weak if you ask me.

It seems that if the class size was smaller, there would be more clinical opportunities for students. OCPM has an enormous class (125 students) and then you need to add in the 5 year track people as well. Of course, many fail out before they reach clinics, but it still is the biggest class size of any pod program. CSPM is capped at 48 students and Barry seems to have around 60-65 (initially) which seem much more reasonable than 125.

Thoughts?

 

[Feli]

You need variety also, but sheer volume is the biggest thing. You certainly won't be seeing patients in pairs during residency, so you want to be competent and comfortable.

The same principle applies to selecting residency experience IMO... except instead of student-to-patient ratio in the clinics, you are evaluating resident-to-case ratio in the OR. Some programs will have 3+ residents scrubbed with the attending for even just toe procedures while other programs will usually just have one resident for forefoot cases and maybe 2-3 for rearfoot or rarer cases. It also depends on the quality attendings teaching you, but the latter situation is usually much preferred IMO.

 

[JEWmongous]

You need variety also, but sheer volume is the biggest thing. You certainly won't be seeing patients in pairs during residency, so you want to be competent and comfortable.

The same principle applies to selecting residency experience IMO... except instead of student-to-patient ratio in the clinics, you are evaluating resident-to-case ratio in the OR. Some programs will have 3+ residents scrubbed with the attending for even just toe procedures while other programs will usually just have one resident for forefoot cases and maybe 2-3 for rearfoot or rarer cases. It also depends on the quality attendings teaching you, but the latter situation is usually much preferred IMO.

Right, that makes a lot of sense. Just curious feli, how many externships does barry have during the 4th year ( I think it's 5). Also, what do the hospital rotations entail (gen surgery, IM, etc)? I saw there were 2 "hospital rotations" listed in the 4th year.

Also, I heard a fair amount of Barry bashing during my previous internship. This was from 4th years who externed in florida with Barry people. Things like weak in clinical abilities along with the good florida programs avoiding Barry graduates. A bit surprising because the clinical program at Barry sounds quite strong (4 separate foot and ankle clinics), in a major metro area (patient and case diversity, and a pretty small class size. What are your thoughts on this - especially since you have rotated with students from most of the schools during externships.

 

[mildoc2016]

the va rotation is a half day on fridays because the va clinic closes at noon, and during the third year although on average you will be with a partner due to large class size, at times you will be placed by yourself based on patient load at clinics and there are also fourth years and residents around to help you out if you need it .... also the class of 2009 was not partnered up during the third year at OCPM while the class of 2008 was paired up

 

[JEWmongous]

the va rotation is a half day on fridays because the va clinic closes at noon, and during the third year although on average you will be with a partner due to large class size, at times you will be placed by yourself based on patient load at clinics and there are also fourth years and residents around to help you out if you need it .... also the class of 2009 was not partnered up during the third year at OCPM while the class of 2008 was paired up

I was going by info from the class of 2010 (pre NEON/school clinic/etc rotations). Maybe things are somewhat different now for the students rotating at the sites.

I forgot but did you say with the Huron rotation, you are now only there 1 day a week? Meaning 1 day NEON, 1 day Huron, 1 day school clinic? Thanks for your help!

 

[mildoc2016]

I was going by info from the class of 2010 (pre NEON/school clinic/etc rotations). Maybe things are somewhat different now for the students rotating at the sites.

I forgot but did you say with the Huron rotation, you are now only there 1 day a week? Meaning 1 day NEON, 1 day Huron, 1 day school clinic? Thanks for your help!

some weeks vary, some weeks youll be at huron two days and out at other clinics the other day. the other week youll go to neon, independence and huron like youve stated before,

there are 3 neon clinics: hough, superior and miles rd, also another clinic is health care alliance as well