3rd Year Depression

[goofball]

I thought third year was the low point. It does get better after that. Even Intern year is better, at least for me.

I don't understand.

I've heard so many people say that M3 is hell on earth. My own mentor (now an attending) says that it was the stupidest, most pointless thing she has ever experienced. According to her, it was an endless parade of scutwork and pimping that did not help her on the shelf exams or in becoming the physician she is.

But I've heard other people say that the the clinical years were the high point of their medical education, and a wonderful learning experience.



Who is right? And what should I expect in M3?

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[tco]

I don't understand.

I've heard so many people say that M3 is hell on earth. My own mentor (now an attending) says that it was the stupidest, most pointless thing she has ever experienced. According to her, it was an endless parade of scutwork and pimping that did not help her on the shelf exams or in becoming the physician she is.

But I've heard other people say that the the clinical years were the high point of their medical education, and a wonderful learning experience.



Who is right? And what should I expect in M3?

What should you expect in M3? There's entire threads devoted to it.

Different people see it in different ways. For example, on my surgery rotation, I was talking to my classmates about how I don't do anything. One of the other guys said, "Really? That sucks! I get to do a lot! They let me retract, ask me questions, and let me cut the suture after they tie the knots!" I said to him, "That's a lot?"

It's all about perception.

 

[Perrotfish]

The thing about medicine is that you always hope the next step is going to be better than the one you're on, but it never is.

I don't understand.

I've heard so many people say that M3 is hell on earth. My own mentor (now an attending) says that it was the stupidest, most pointless thing she has ever experienced. According to her, it was an endless parade of scutwork and pimping that did not help her on the shelf exams or in becoming the physician she is.

But I've heard other people say that the the clinical years were the high point of their medical education, and a wonderful learning experience.



Who is right? And what should I expect in M3?

Different people see it in different ways, as other posters have said. Whether you think its Ok, great, or just plain awful my point was that you're not too far off from something that you'll like more.

 

[JourneyAgent]

Different people see it in different ways, as other posters have said. Whether you think its Ok, great, or just plain awful my point was that you're not too far off from something that you'll like more.

Yeah. That's the thing that makes it alright for me. The fact that time is marching on. Shelf exams pass. Crappy attendings or residents pass. We keep getting closer to making some money. Being depended on for something real rather than perpetually dancing a jig to amuse our audience. And being involved with subject matter we've chosen to pursue.

If I wasn't 40 and already well versed in the myriad of disappointments life has to offer it might have been rougher this year. But it's just ok. And ok is not bad. And every year has gotten better for me, if for no other reason than I'm closer to being done.

 

[QuackaDO]

I guess I'm actually in the minority here, but I think 3rd year is WAY better than first or second year. That also probably comes from the fact that I'm more of a "non traditional" student in that I was a paramedic for about 10 years before school so "school" was always kinda painful for me but "doing" has been much better. Have there been ****ty rotations or preceptors? Sure, like everyone I've had my moments where I was like "One more word and Imma cut this fool", lol, but overall I am much happier out of class than in. I think it's all about the student you are too. I would venture to guess if you asked all of the responders above that most of them were the straight out of school to med school types (or maybe a year off somewhere) and are comfortable with the school setting whereas someone who is more comfortable being out and doing is going to be a lot happier. Then there is obviously the personality thing... personality and initiative are A LOT more important in 3rd year and while this isn't always a rule, it can be said (and has been said by PDs) that it's not uncommon for very high scoring students to struggle in rotations simply because, as noted before, a lot of the time it's how you get along with people and not about what you know. You're graded in the first two years on what you know, the last two on how well you fit in and get along with people... that's why a lot of PDs put a fairly high emphasis on 3rd year grades and audition comments. It's grading you "completely" per se. There a LOTS of people who do very well in school and do very well in clinicals but often you see some disparity. Anyways, long and off the subject to a degree but maybe the solution is to not worry so much about knowing everything as much as it is about learning how to fit in and get along... even if that means getting a pimp question or two wrong. Just my thoughts...

 

[tco]

It always cracks me up when people make statements like this. "I worked as a blank blank before I came to medical school. If I had to guess, I'd say that everyone complaining never did anything other than school."

I worked in construction, which is physically WAYYYYY worse than medical school, but that doesn't mean that third year sucks any less. It's actually MUCH worse overall than a real job.

 

[Lolscan]

What's up ya'll,

I'm sure I'm not the only one going through this, but 3rd year seems infinitely more miserable than the first two years of med school. It's frustrating to work so hard, swallow your pride, bust your *** doing hours and hours of scut for your residents only to be rewarded with mediocre subjective evals. Learning the material hasn't been an issue...it's playing this damn game that has me more depressed than anything.

At this point, I'm sick of medical school and have given up all hope of ever getting a decent residency. For all the importance they place on third year grades, I think I'm SOL. In fact, I think I'm borderline suicidal.

Anyone got any advice for dealing with this ****? I've got nothing.
-hussla

You will get where you want to be in your 4th year. Cheer up buddy. Clinical grades are arbitrary and anyone who says otherwise is a *******

 

[Lolscan]

I guess I'm actually in the minority here, but I think 3rd year is WAY better than first or second year. That also probably comes from the fact that I'm more of a "non traditional" student in that I was a paramedic for about 10 years before school so "school" was always kinda painful for me but "doing" has been much better. Have there been ****ty rotations or preceptors? Sure, like everyone I've had my moments where I was like "One more word and Imma cut this fool", lol, but overall I am much happier out of class than in. I think it's all about the student you are too. I would venture to guess if you asked all of the responders above that most of them were the straight out of school to med school types (or maybe a year off somewhere) and are comfortable with the school setting whereas someone who is more comfortable being out and doing is going to be a lot happier. Then there is obviously the personality thing... personality and initiative are A LOT more important in 3rd year and while this isn't always a rule, it can be said (and has been said by PDs) that it's not uncommon for very high scoring students to struggle in rotations simply because, as noted before, a lot of the time it's how you get along with people and not about what you know. You're graded in the first two years on what you know, the last two on how well you fit in and get along with people... that's why a lot of PDs put a fairly high emphasis on 3rd year grades and audition comments. It's grading you "completely" per se. There a LOTS of people who do very well in school and do very well in clinicals but often you see some disparity. Anyways, long and off the subject to a degree but maybe the solution is to not worry so much about knowing everything as much as it is about learning how to fit in and get along... even if that means getting a pimp question or two wrong. Just my thoughts...

People always bring up this point about how subjective grading = evaluation of "how you get along with people". It is completely false. I know plenty of social butterflies who do poorly in third year. At least at my school, it is more about your appearance, clinical location and luck of the draw on attending than anything else.

 

[kdur]

It always cracks me up when people make statements like this. "I worked as a blank blank before I came to medical school. If I had to guess, I'd say that everyone complaining never did anything other than school."

I worked in construction, which is physically WAYYYYY worse than medical school, but that doesn't mean that third year sucks any less. It's actually MUCH worse overall than a real job.

I am a non-trad w/ experience as a RN prior to med school. 3rd year blows. As a student you have no real responsibility. And more times than not your presence just serves to slow things down and you find yourself trying to stay out people's way so they can do their jobs.

It is far worse than a real job.

And forth year is just as bad. Now you don't even have exams to study for. You are basically marking time until residency all the while wondering why you are paying a butt load of tuition for no good reason.

 

[siliso]

Maybe it's expectations that make the difference. I'm not quite sure what people mean when they complain that they don't get to do anything "real." Like did you think that you were going to make diagnoses and decisions for patients without an actual licensed physician rechecking every bit of it for themselves? That someone else was going to retract and cut for you while you did the real surgery? If that's what you mean by "real," of course you're not going to. And of course you slow things down, because you're trying to learn. But you can do some real learning from your "not real" work, if you decide to :shrugs:. Not trying to be 100% sally sunshine as there are days that suck and are too long and people who are asses, anyway, agreed.

Also, your work not "counting" can work to your advantage. The interns are the real workhorses, and you can be something of a pet as a third year. Example: I could scrub into whatever surgery I wanted, whether it were a "chief level" case or not, while they could really for real sign the discharges and authorize extra doses of morphine and cups of ice. In clinics I could see patients, chat with them and about them, and never write a note because my work is not billable and the dr. is going to dictate anyway.

 

[thepoopologist]

Dx: 3rd year depression
Tx: Watch online porn qHS, beat up schoolkids PRN.

 

[AlexMorph]

I am a non-trad w/ experience as a RN prior to med school. 3rd year blows. As a student you have no real responsibility. And more times than not your presence just serves to slow things down and you find yourself trying to stay out people's way so they can do their jobs.

It is far worse than a real job.

And forth year is just as bad. Now you don't even have exams to study for. You are basically marking time until residency all the while wondering why you are paying a butt load of tuition for no good reason.

Lol, agreed.

Paying tuition during 4th year is a sunk cost. You are paying for the degree. Might as well do the best you can to get out of the hospital as soon as you can and enjoy your life before residency starts.

 

[tco]

Lol, agreed.

Paying tuition during 4th year is a sunk cost. You are paying for the degree. Might as well do the best you can to get out of the hospital as soon as you can and enjoy your life before residency starts.

I was told that the evolution of fourth year went something like this:

During the last physician shortage, the government subsidized schools that could get physicians out in three years. The medical schools all scrambled to shorten their programs by a year to pump more physicians out to make more money. When the shortage was corrected, the government dropped the funding. Schools just tacked on the extra year and made it virtually an elective year to gain back the extra money. No idea how accurate it is, as I haven't actually researched it.

 

[Silent Cool]

I was told that the evolution of fourth year went something like this:

During the last physician shortage, the government subsidized schools that could get physicians out in three years. The medical schools all scrambled to shorten their programs by a year to pump more physicians out to make more money. When the shortage was corrected, the government dropped the funding. Schools just tacked on the extra year and made it virtually an elective year to gain back the extra money. No idea how accurate it is, as I haven't actually researched it.

same thing happened to dentists.

 

[e30ftw]

I don't understand.

I've heard so many people say that M3 is hell on earth. My own mentor (now an attending) says that it was the stupidest, most pointless thing she has ever experienced. According to her, it was an endless parade of scutwork and pimping that did not help her on the shelf exams or in becoming the physician she is.

But I've heard other people say that the the clinical years were the high point of their medical education, and a wonderful learning experience.



Who is right? And what should I expect in M3?

figure out whichever attitude you would rather have and just go with it..

i'm no gunner but i def liked 3rd year more than 2nd. you learn to suture, deliver babies, toy with central lines/intubations. See cool cases in the OR that you'll likely never see again, etc. Your responsibilities are pretty damn easy and while people can be a-holes (worst part imo) just get some thick skin and deal with it.

All you have to do to pass MS3 is show up and not be a total d-bag to everyone in the hospital. this is surprisingly difficult for some people but overall not too bad.

some people just like to bitch and moan and other people are overly enthusiastic/gunnerish/annoying. find wherever you lie on that spectrum and deal with it, it's only 1 year and psych is basically 12 wks of vacation so you have that to look forward to..

and to the person who slandered fourth year, which is basically gods gift to medical students, you should wash your mouth out with soap.

 

[Textbookversion]

You have 12 weeks of psych? whaaaaaaat?

 

[evilbooyaa]

You have 12 weeks of psych? whaaaaaaat?

Yeah seriously holy crap balls. I ilked the psych rotation but if I had to deal with nutjobs for 12 weeks I would probably hate it. Yeah the hours were solid, but damn, I've never heard of 12 weeks of psych. Only 12 weeks of surgery/medicine.

 

[e30ftw]

eh now that i think back there was a month of neuro in there but still basically outpatient vacation..

 

[VenusinFurs]

My favorite thing about 3rd year was getting to do two whole months (in two separate rotations) at the VA spa. One of them was gen surg. I just got exceptionally lucky.

 

[timbaktoo]

This might be a long post and I apologize for that but I really need suggestions and advice. I had failed my COMLEX 1 early on because of severe health problems despite getting in 500s in my COMSAE earlier this year. My med school allowed me to continue with my 3rd yr rotations, thinking that I’ll be able to seek the required medical help and pass eventually. I was fine for my first three rotations, but came to a point where I barely passed my COMAT shelf exams because it was practically impossible to divide time between 14 hr clinical shifts/COMLEX 1 studying/shelf along with battling health issues. I felt miserable after every rotation because I thought, I could have really done more if this COMLEX1 and my bad health was not in the middle of my path. My health wasn’t getting better and it was effecting each and every aspect of my third year life. I am at a point where I’m really tired and am getting bouts of depression. I spent my Christmas in my room studying, and didn’t have any desire to socialize during the entire holidays. I would like to apply for a ‘leave of absence’ for a semester, so I can reenergize my motivation, take care of my health, see a psychiatrist, and get the COMLEX1 out of the way. However, at the same time, I’m worried if I do this, I‘ll have to finish my left over 3rd year rotation in the fall 2016 when my classmates will be auditioning, and I cannot apply for Audition rotation until Fall 2017. I am already a non-traditional student and I don’t know if delaying graduation is the right thing to do and how would the Residency Program look at this situation. At the same time, it is difficult to balance board studying /rotations anymore with the way things are. I would really like to get some suggestions so I can direct myself towards the right path

 

[hallowmann]

This might be a long post and I apologize for that but I really need suggestions and advice. I had failed my COMLEX 1 early on because of severe health problems despite getting in 500s in my COMSAE earlier this year. My med school allowed me to continue with my 3rd yr rotations, thinking that I’ll be able to seek the required medical help and pass eventually. I was fine for my first three rotations, but came to a point where I barely passed my COMAT shelf exams because it was practically impossible to divide time between 14 hr clinical shifts/COMLEX 1 studying/shelf along with battling health issues. I felt miserable after every rotation because I thought, I could have really done more if this COMLEX1 and my bad health was not in the middle of my path. My health wasn’t getting better and it was effecting each and every aspect of my third year life. I am at a point where I’m really tired and am getting bouts of depression. I spent my Christmas in my room studying, and didn’t have any desire to socialize during the entire holidays. I would like to apply for a ‘leave of absence’ for a semester, so I can reenergize my motivation, take care of my health, see a psychiatrist, and get the COMLEX1 out of the way. However, at the same time, I’m worried if I do this, I‘ll have to finish my left over 3rd year rotation in the fall 2016 when my classmates will be auditioning, and I cannot apply for Audition rotation until Fall 2017. I am already a non-traditional student and I don’t know if delaying graduation is the right thing to do and how would the Residency Program look at this situation. At the same time, it is difficult to balance board studying /rotations anymore with the way things are. I would really like to get some suggestions so I can direct myself towards the right path

Can you take an LOA for like 1-2 mos? At my school they basically told us that there's about 2 mos of buffer between 3rd and 4th year and the July 1st residency start date, so basically you can take off 2 mos for an LOA and stay on cycle, but you'd have no more buffer until you graduate. See what your schedule is like. If you have a vacation in 3rd or 4th year and graduate at the end of May for example, you could potentially have enough time for a 1-2 mo LOA and still stay on cycle and graduate and start residency in 2017. If you can't do that, it's better to finish with the 2018 class rather than being off cycle.

As a side note, I'm really surprised your school let you continue through half of 3rd year without passing Level 1 yet. You shouldn't look at the prospect of an LOA and graduating in 2018 as a setback, but rather something that would have happened to you anyway at most other schools.

 

[Dorsal00]

i thought MCAT studying was the lowest point jeez