4.0 Drones?

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ChillDawg

ChillDawg

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I've heard it said by many people, med school deans, admissions directors, committee members, etc... that med schools don't want 4.0 library drones and they get rejected from med schools all the time.
Now, given a strong MCAT as well (36+) , how many so called drones don't actually get into a medical school?
I'm suspicious of these stories because they smell like feel-good anecdotes designed to motivate, but do not represent reality.
I can see top10 schools sometimes passing these applicants over, but can mid tier schools really resist accepting them?
If any adcoms read this, how many 'drones' have you PERSONALLY seen get rejected from your medical school over the years?

Do they even exist in any appreciable number, anyway?
I go to a good UC where a large swath of the Bio-type majors are premed, and I can't immediately name one such '4.0 drone'.
Is it just a label people use to feel better about themselves when comparing themselves to ultracompetitive applicants?

NOTE: I am not a 4.0 student, no skin in the game
 
The 4.0 drone refers to people who coast with easy majors and get A's without any effort. Alternatively, it also refers to students who get a 4.0 at a school notorious for grade inflations.

Essentially, a 4.0 biology major is very common and adcoms expect more. A 4.0 physics or engineering major is rare or nonexistent, so that accomplishment is noted. Same with a 4.0 grad from Princeton, Chicago etc.

Regardless, a strong MCAT is helpful in supplementing with a strong GPA, and with strong ECs, you are good to go for any medical schools.
 
ChillDawg said:
I've heard it said by many people, med school deans, admissions directors, committee members, etc... that med schools don't want 4.0 library drones and they get rejected from med schools all the time.
Now, given a strong MCAT as well (36+) , how many so called drones don't actually get into a medical school?
I'm suspicious of these stories because they smell like feel-good anecdotes designed to motivate, but do not represent reality.
I can see top10 schools sometimes passing these applicants over, but can mid tier schools really resist accepting them?
If any adcoms read this, how many 'drones' have you PERSONALLY seen get rejected from your medical school over the years?

Do they even exist in any appreciable number, anyway?
I go to a good UC where a large swath of the Bio-type majors are premed, and I can't immediately name one such '4.0 drone'.
Is it just a label people use to feel better about themselves when comparing themselves to ultracompetitive applicants?

NOTE: I am not a 4.0 student, no skin in the game
Click to expand...
I have dozens on the waitlist holding nowhere.
 
What exactly makes someone with a 4.0 GPA a "drone" compared with someone with a lower GPA? I'm assuming it's an absence of interesting extracurriculars. Statistically the AAMC says people with a GPA of 3.8-4.0 and an MCAT of 36+ have about a 90% chance of admission to at least one medical school. https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstable24.pdf
 
I think the "drones" are the ones who don't work and don't do any extracurriculars. Such people can more easily get really high grades and high MCATs because, well, they're not doing anything else. I think a 4.0 and 36+ MCAT, with hours in many ECs besides these, will get you into some very impressive medical schools. 4.0 and 36+ MCAT with little to no extracurricular activities won't help you much. It takes more than good grades and scores to be a good doctor. The stats tell them whether you can handle medical school. The ECs tell them what kind of doctor you'll be.
 
Someone who's made academics and getting into led the school their only aim and making the admissions game a lifestyle. They aren't interesting or unique or necessarily in it for th right reasons. They're just little premed Borg.
 
High stats don't make one dull.
An unenthusiastic, poor communicator with weak interpersonal skills will not be discovered until after an interview, though.
 
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gyngyn said:
High stats don't make one dull.
An unenthusiastic, poor communicator with weak communication skills will not be discovered until after an interview, though.
Click to expand...

Was going to say something like this. To some degree you need to make the admissions game a lifestyle, because it requires a lot of focus and effort. Being able to explain why exactly you are willing to brave the difficult path of medical school admissions and why you *know* becoming a doctor is the path you want to take in the interview seem more important. You need to be able to convey enthusiasm and a consciousness for what it is you're doing in order to be less of a "drone."
 
There are many people who have done very well in school who might be called "4.0 drones" based on their grades who also go on to do interesting things after college: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Phi_Beta_Kappa_members_by_year_of_admission
At the same time, there are many people who didn't have the best grades in college (or who even leave college like Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg) who also go on to do interesting and impressive things.
I have scribed for a doctor who got in his words "essentially a 0.0 GPA" his freshman year of college due to excess partying, but he brought it up to a 3.4 or thereabouts (and I think a high MCAT score) and got into a pretty good MD school and did a fellowship at a prestigious med school in the northwest.
 
UNMedGa said:
Was going to say something like this. To some degree you need to make the admissions game a lifestyle, because it requires a lot of focus and effort. Being able to explain why exactly you are willing to brave the difficult path of medical school admissions and why you *know* becoming a doctor is the path you want to take in the interview seem more important. You need to be able to convey enthusiasm and a consciousness for what it is you're doing in order to be less of a "drone."
Click to expand...
Even the most "stats oriented schools" will be less than sanguine about the emotionally and socially inept.
 
Okay, Okay. So I'll admit that I was way too obsessed with having a 4.0 during undergrad. I think there are definitely those people who have a 4.0 and nothing else (extracurriculars, a personality, etc.). I didn't have the best MCAT score, but I think I showed that I can work really hard academically by having a 4.0. I definitely saw the benefit of it during admissions.
 
It's quite hard to believe but there are many schools that report 4.0 for their 90th percentiles, so it's not that uncommon.
 
For the pre-med students who've offered their own definitions of these 4.0 drones, have you actually met many?
I honestly haven't (no, im not one lol)
 
ChillDawg said:
For the pre-med students who've offered their own definitions of these 4.0 drones, have you actually met many?
I honestly haven't (no, im not one lol)
Click to expand...
I don't exactly have a 4.0 as I got one B, but by no means do I spend all my time studying in the library (I don't ever). I would say that I study less than an average student, and in fact usually cram 2-3 days before any given test. I do, on the other hand, know the syllabus front to back and know exactly what my grade is and grab every point I can get (it's really become an effortless habit by now). It also helps to research your professor before signing up for a class with them.

As a TA myself, I'm always surprised that almost no students care to come check their grade to make sure that their work was graded correctly (or better yet the questions were written correctly!) and if you don't take the initiative in your hand, then of course I will assume that you are happy with your grade. If it's a subjective class (writting papers or lab reports) then there's even more room for dispute.
 
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I know of one person that had a 4.0 from a D1 private school, played hoops all through school, volunteered in the summers and between terms, attended homeless shelters on Sundays after church ... and her's was a "true 4.0" (meaning not a 3.9999999 rounded up). MCAT was solid (35).

She did NOT get accepted into the Top Tier but did get accepted, matriculate and graduate from a very competitive school on east coast. Her dad is a doc, her sis is a doc, her brother will be a doc... being a doc was never NOT going to happen for her.

Other than her? No. I have a 3.97 (damn "B" in biochem)
 
If one has a 4.0 and a high MCAT, they either didn't apply broadly, applied top heavy, was lacking in ECs, have legal problems, ****ty essays or if they were lucky enough to get an II, were just really socially inept.
 
I know some 3.8 drones. People who obsess over keeping a 3.7-3.8+ and are doing NOTHING else to help sell themselves in this process. One person told me yesterday they will have to retake a C in o chem because med schools DON'T take C's in general. Honestly the silliest thing I've heard coming from an individual with such a high GPA like theirs. I know people at my school with very high stats but may suffer due to lack of "EC's".
 
onyisraw said:
I know some 3.8 drones. People who obsess over keeping a 3.7-3.8+ and are doing NOTHING else to help sell themselves in this process. One person told me yesterday they will have to retake a C in o chem because med schools DON'T take C's in general. Honestly the silliest thing I've heard coming from an individual with such a high GPA like theirs. I know people at my school with very high stats but may suffer due to lack of "EC's".
Click to expand...

Same with my school. But at least it's easier to build ECs than build GPA… prioritizing one's grades is really not a bad thing. GPA matters a lot and I wish I cared more about it than having such a lackadaisical attitude regarding GPA freshman year. I'm paying for it now!
 
Most of the time it's this; other reasons are these these interviewees are completely robotic. They don't make eye contact, and show no passion, except for research. At best, to them, patients are interesting problems to be solved.

Rarer still are the hyperacheivers who want to answer other people's questions.

Edv14 said:
What exactly makes someone with a 4.0 GPA a "drone" compared with someone with a lower GPA? I'm assuming it's an absence of interesting extracurriculars. Statistically the AAMC says people with a GPA of 3.8-4.0 and an MCAT of 36+ have about a 90% chance of admission to at least one medical school. https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstable24.pdf
Click to expand...
 
northernlights15 said:
Same with my school. But at least it's easier to build ECs than build GPA… prioritizing one's grades is really not a bad thing. GPA matters a lot and I wish I cared more about it than having such a lackadaisical attitude regarding GPA freshman year. I'm paying for it now!
Click to expand...
Yeah this is mostly pertaining to upcoming juniors who don't know that high stats mean nothing without the total package.
 
4.0 drones? Some people are just really, really smart. I took a class w/ this kid and he absorbed everything like a sponge. It was disturbing. Just because someone has a 4.0 doesn't mean they're a library nerd. Some people are born with better brains; such is life.

I see your point, but I'm just giving you another angle to consider.
 
Cpt Ahab said:
4.0 drones? Some people are just really, really smart. I took a class w/ this kid and he absorbed everything like a sponge. It was disturbing. Just because someone has a 4.0 doesn't mean they're a library nerd. Some people are born with better brains; such is life.

I see your point, but I'm just giving you another angle to consider.
Click to expand...
This thread isn't about people with a 4.0, it's about drones with a 4.0. 😀😀😀😀😀
 
onyisraw said:
This thread isn't about people with a 4.0, it's about drones with a 4.0. 😀😀😀😀😀
Click to expand...
It's, at it's core, just another post for insecure premeds to project their feelings of GPA inadequacy. That's okay though because I like hearing about adcoms rejecting these dorks who think med school acceptance is just based on GPA and MCAT. Which strengthens my belief in the fact that there are multiple types of intelligences.
 
https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstable24.pdf

if only there were some data to guide us...

from 2012-2014 5695 people applied to MD schools with a 3.8+/36+. 5073 were accepted to at least one school. i think it's pretty safe to assume the majority of the 11% who weren't accepted had bad application strategies. i think a lot of people just don't understand the crapshoot nature of the application process and are like "ok, i'll just apply to harvard, yale, JHU, and a few other schools and i should be set". the chances that someone with a 3.8+/36+ doesn't get into at least one school if they apply to 15+ is surely much lower than 11%
 
The best thing that can happen to the drones is to lose their 4.0

I remember after my first semester I pulled off the 4.0, but in my second, I got B's in Ecology and American History. It had a cathartic effect on me, and was one less thing to worry about. Now I notice people in my classes being super frustrated at an 88 on their midterms when the class average was a 65. A 3.8 almost has similar weight as the 4.0 if everything else is competitive
 
Vain Brother said:
https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstable24.pdf

if only there were some data to guide us...

from 2012-2014 5695 people applied to MD schools with a 3.8+/36+. 5073 were accepted to at least one school. i think it's pretty safe to assume the majority of the 11% who weren't accepted had bad application strategies. i think a lot of people just don't understand the crapshoot nature of the application process and are like "ok, i'll just apply to harvard, yale, JHU, and a few other schools and i should be set". the chances that someone with a 3.8+/36+ doesn't get into at least one school if they apply to 15+ is surely much lower than 11%
Click to expand...
It seems like EVERYONE I talk to is only applying to like four or five schools w/ mediocre stats. Better for us on SDN I suppose.
 
Cpt Ahab said:
It's, at it's core, just another post for insecure premeds to project their feelings of GPA inadequacy. That's okay though because I like hearing about adcoms rejecting these dorks who think med school acceptance is just based on GPA and MCAT. Which strengthens my belief in the fact that there are multiple types of intelligences.
Click to expand...

If you are interfering to me, sir or madam, then you haven't read the op carefully. I'm actually asking if the 4.0 drone meme is simply premed frustration at the 'smarter kids.' I suspect that it is at least partially so...
 
Cpt Ahab said:
It seems like EVERYONE I talk to is only applying to like four or five schools w/ mediocre stats. Better for us on SDN I suppose.
Click to expand...

And you don't immediately notify them of their mistake? I thought we were supposed to be compassionate 😱...or is that just on paper?
 
I don't have a 4.0, but I do have a 3.96. I've had people tell me one B in a prereq would be the end of me and people tell me a lower GPA would be better because it makes you seem more human. Can't win lol.
 
Know plenty of 4.0 or near 4.0 kids who are super cool. Then there are the drones who grade grub, ask pedantic questions in class (even the professors get irritated by these questions), have no social life and are completely socially awkward, and have nearly no interest in anything outside of school. I think it's safe to say that that is a drone vs. the smart kid who is also socially adept and has a life outside of academics.
 
allantois said:
I would say that I study less than an average student, and in fact usually cram 2-3 days before any given test.
Click to expand...

Is this... not... what everyone does?? The average student at my school crams 1-2 days before any exam lol..
 
litotes said:
Is this... not... what everyone does?? The average student at my school crams 1-2 days before any exam lol..
Click to expand...

I must be odd - lol - I never crammed. Too afraid to put that much pressure on exams and then forget everything I'd learned.
 
ratman7 said:
The best thing that can happen to the drones is to lose their 4.0

I remember after my first semester I pulled off the 4.0, but in my second, I got B's in Ecology and American History. It had a cathartic effect on me, and was one less thing to worry about. Now I notice people in my classes being super frustrated at an 88 on their midterms when the class average was a 65. A 3.8 almost has similar weight as the 4.0 if everything else is competitive
Click to expand...
This is so true. I'll admit I am someone who obsesses about grades, but I would probably obsess myself into the psych ward had I not lost my 4.0 right from the get go freshman year. I was strongly looking at getting a B in ochem this semester (still not sure how my A was mathematically possible). Although I was very upset about it (because I have a 4.0 science and math GPA of course :eyeroll: ), at least there was the sense of, "At least this will only be dropping me from a 3.96 to a 3.93 rather than killing a shiny 4.0."
 
I only cram when forced to cram. This past semester, I had 6 exams within a 7-day period, and four of them were ochem exams (still kind of impressed by the horrific scheduling my lab and lecture profs managed to pull off). I had to cram for those because there was no time to study the way I prefer. I was so frustrated lol.
 
Ad2b said:
I must be odd - lol - I never crammed. Too afraid to put that much pressure on exams and then forget everything I'd learned.
Click to expand...

I forget most things if I learn them too far in advance! 😱
 
The following is my experience, so take it with a grain of salt.


Having a 4.0 (or even a 3.9+) is highly correlated with having helicopter parents who pushed little Jhonny/Jessica throughout HS (and now college) to attend to their studies to the detriment of everything else. They are almost always bio majors. Any EC they are engaged in is solely to make themselves look good, and they put in the bare minimum effort to include that in their resume later. They also tend to enjoy mission trips (er, medical tourism). These mission trips are subsidized by their helicopter parents. They are almost always white and upper-middle class.

They usually have been pressured into the premed path by their parents, or have chosen it in order to be impressive or prestigious. They have never taken time out for their own hobbies. They have never written a novel, nor even read one outside of that required lit class they took freshman year.

They have never had to deal with real adversity (ala parents getting divorced or major surgery followed by months of hospital stays/recovery). They tend to think that maintaining a 4.0 entitles them to entrance into the med school of their choice.

Overall, they expect things to be handed to them on a silver platter.
 
allantois said:
I forget most things if I learn them too far in advance! 😱
Click to expand...

I was rinse, repeat, test. Boring, tedious but I can still draw chymotrypsin mech with all the enzymes... for some reason, I wish I couldn't :beaver:
 
Spinach Dip said:
The following is my experience, so take it with a grain of salt.


Having a 4.0 (or even a 3.9+) is highly correlated with having helicopter parents who pushed little Jhonny/Jessica throughout HS (and now college) to attend to their studies to the detriment of everything else. They are almost always bio majors. Any EC they are engaged in is solely to make themselves look good, and they put in the bare minimum effort to include that in their resume later. They also tend to enjoy mission trips (er, medical tourism). These mission trips are subsidized by their helicopter parents. They are almost always white and upper-middle class.

They usually have been pressured into the premed path by their parents, or have chosen it in order to be impressive or prestigious. They have never taken time out for their own hobbies. They have never written a novel, nor even read one outside of that required lit class they took freshman year.

They have never had to deal with real adversity (ala parents getting divorced or major surgery followed by months of hospital stays/recovery). They tend to think that maintaining a 4.0 entitles them to entrance into the med school of their choice.

Overall, they expect things to be handed to them on a silver platter.
Click to expand...
I hope no one in my life assumes my background is anything like this based on my GPA. Aside from never having written a novel, I'm pretty much the opposite of all of those points. I actually think my grade obsession stems from me seeing academic success as a way to get away from my highly dysfunctional family for good and never have to rely on them for anything ever again. It would make me incredibly sad if my classmates, advisor, or anybody assumed I grew up a sheltered brat when the reality of my upbringing looked more like us having the cops in our driveway every other week.
 
^^ :claps::claps::claps:

My mother beat the ... out of me daily with various instruments most commonly used in the kitchen, not on a child's bare butt.

My grades now represent a lot. I may not get in. I may hear laughing all the way from whatever schools I apply to but my fancy little GPA that I have for all my pre-reqs is nothing but satisfaction to ME that I really am capable of far more than I was ever told I could be.
 
beebreezy said:
I hope no one in my life assumes my background is anything like this based on my GPA. Aside from never having written a novel, I'm pretty much the opposite of all of those points. I actually think my grade obsession stems from me seeing academic success as a way to get away from my highly dysfunctional family for good and never have to rely on them for anything ever again. It would make me incredibly sad if my classmates, advisor, or anybody assumed I grew up a sheltered brat when the reality of my upbringing looked more like us having the cops in our driveway every other week.
Click to expand...

I am happy for you. But you are one of an uncommon breed in my experience.
 
Ad2b said:
^^ :claps::claps::claps:

My mother beat the ... out of me daily with various instruments most mothers used in the kitchen, not on a child's bare butt.

My grades now represent a lot. I may not get in. I may hear laughing all the way from whatever schools I apply to but my fancy little GPA that I have for all my pre-reqs is nothing but satisfaction to ME that I really am capable of far more than I was ever told I could be.
Click to expand...
Good for you! I hear yah. Earning a string of A's was the best way I knew how to concretely demonstrate to others that I wasn't like my family in a world where people judge others based on their families all the time, so it's what I did.
 
Spinach Dip said:
The following is my experience, so take it with a grain of salt.


Having a 4.0 (or even a 3.9+) is highly correlated with having helicopter parents who pushed little Jhonny/Jessica throughout HS (and now college) to attend to their studies to the detriment of everything else. They are almost always bio majors. Any EC they are engaged in is solely to make themselves look good, and they put in the bare minimum effort to include that in their resume later. They also tend to enjoy mission trips (er, medical tourism). These mission trips are subsidized by their helicopter parents. They are almost always white and upper-middle class.

They usually have been pressured into the premed path by their parents, or have chosen it in order to be impressive or prestigious. They have never taken time out for their own hobbies. They have never written a novel, nor even read one outside of that required lit class they took freshman year.

They have never had to deal with real adversity (ala parents getting divorced or major surgery followed by months of hospital stays/recovery). They tend to think that maintaining a 4.0 entitles them to entrance into the med school of their choice.

Overall, they expect things to be handed to them on a silver platter.
Click to expand...
Cpt Ahab said:
It's, at it's core, just another post for insecure premeds to project their feelings of GPA inadequacy.
Click to expand...
 
Spinach Dip said:
I am happy for you. But you are one of an uncommon breed in my experience.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to hear that SD. There were many students in my premed classes that worked their tails off for every A... I don't think I'm uncommon; just old 😉
 
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