4.0 Science GPA/Late Applicant...HELP!

[AugustMCAT]

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Applying for medical school this summer, incoming senior at Schreyer Honors College of Penn State University. I understand I am behind in the admissions process, so please be honest with me.

3.99 overall GPA/4.0 Science GPA

MCAT: Taking it for the first time August 5th

Letters of Recommendation: Just sent out all the requests, should hear back soon hopefully. A committee letter should follow as well.

Personal Statement: Will start today.

ECs:
Most Important
-Spent 3 weeks in Germany volunteering in a clinical environment (150 hours)
-Spent 3 weeks in Germany shadowing doctors at both hospitals and private practices (180 hours)
-Volunteered as representative for a nutritional/supplement company (1000 hours)
-President and Founder of an organization dedicated towards making sure underage students make smart decisions if they choose to drink
-High School: Secretary of Class (2 years)...relevant because in college:

-Student government Deputy Director of Multicultural Affairs (1 year)
-Honors College Representative to the Student Government (1 year)
-Officer and Member of the Honors College Student Council (2 years)


Less Important
-Member of Springfield THON (largest student run philanthropy in the world) - 1 year
-Member of Pre-Med Society (1 year)
-Member of South Asian Student Association (1 year)

Awards
-Dean's List Every Semester
-3 Separate Awards for maintaining a 4.0 or near 4.0 GPA

Let me know, I understand I am a very late applicant and lack research experience (though I will be immersing myself starting this fall). Thanks!

 

[Whatyousay]

ECs:
Most Important
-Spent 3 weeks in Germany volunteering in a clinical environment (150 hours)
-Spent 3 weeks in Germany shadowing doctors at both hospitals and private practices (180 hours)
-Volunteered as representative for a nutritional/supplement company (1000 hours)
-President and Founder of an organization dedicated towards making sure underage students make smart decisions if they choose to drink
-High School: Secretary of Class (2 years)...relevant because in college:

-Student government Deputy Director of Multicultural Affairs (1 year)
-Honors College Representative to the Student Government (1 year)
-Officer and Member of the Honors College Student Council (2 years)

A few thoughts:
I still wouldn't mention the high school stuff on your app. Just focus on your college leadership experience.

Do you have any clinical experience in the U.S.? The clinical experience overseas is nice, but you may want to spend some time in a U.S. clinic/hospital during this application cycle and update schools as you accumulate experience.

The complete absence of research will limit you at a decent number of "top" schools, so as long as gunning for Harvard/Yale/JHU isn't for you, you should be okay. Your GPA is obviously stellar, so it all depends on your MCAT.

 

[Catalystik]

No matter how many hours you accumulated, having only three weeks of clinical experience is not adequate. Agree you need US patients and clinical environment experience too. If you are set on applying this season despite the lateness of August MCAT and brief study time allowed (and probable lower score than you're capable of), you should start ASAP and continue through the application cycle, letting schools know via update letter about improvements in ECs.

Do you have any hands-on community service that helps the poor? Any teaching? Any plan for research in the next year? What exactly did you do as a volunteer for a nutritional company, and why?

It seems to me you're rushing into applying very poorly prepared. Do you at least have all the LORs lined up?

 

[AugustMCAT]

No matter how many hours you accumulated, having only three weeks of clinical experience is not adequate. Agree you need US patients and clinical environment experience too. If you are set on applying this season despite the lateness of August MCAT and brief study time allowed (and probable lower score than you're capable of), you should start ASAP and continue through the application cycle, letting schools know via update letter about improvements in ECs.

Do you have any hands-on community service that helps the poor? Any teaching? Any plan for research in the next year? What exactly did you do as a volunteer for a nutritional company, and why?

It seems to me you're rushing into applying very poorly prepared. Do you at least have all the LORs lined up?

I will have to dedicate this next month almost exclusively to MCAT studying unfortunately. However, I can get an additional 2 weeks of clinical experience from August 5-19.

I was not aware you need community service that helps the poor, or teaching. I have done about 10 hours of help at blood drives, obviously not worth noting. As far as teaching goes, I am a private tutor for hire locally, but it is not volunteer work, as I make 40-50 dollars an hour. I also taught at a learning center for one summer. Total hours between the tutoring and learning center are probably around 200.

For the nutritional company, I helped people with all sorts of questions, but mostly dealing with people with dietary issues, people without health insurance who needed advice, and supplementation advice. The reason I went into it is because I ran into a bunch of dietary problems 1 year ago that are actually the reason my entire application schedule has been thrown off.

I intend on starting work in the lab the first day of fall semester (early august). I have already gained acceptance to the lab and am going through the assigned reading and documentation. I will be doing this research the whole year.

Honestly, I will be applying this term regardless. I would simply like to know my honest chances, and your advice seems as straightforward as they come. Knowing what I just posted above, if I dedicate 100% of the next month to apps and MCAT, what are my chances?

1 of my LORs has been confirmed, the other 4 are still awaiting reply. There is also a committee interview I must register for once 3 of my LORs are in. I have already requested that my transcript be sent to AMCAS.

If you were me, what would you prioritize right now? AMCAS Application, including PS? Committee interview packet? MCATs? I'm kind of going back and forth between everything right now and would really like to know where to start.

As far as update letters, how effective are they? I have almost no coursework this upcoming semester and intend to really only do research and hospital volunteer work. Is that ok?

Thanks again for your help!

 

[Whatyousay]

I will have to dedicate this next month almost exclusively to MCAT studying unfortunately. However, I can get an additional 2 weeks of clinical experience from August 5-19.

A month is a little short to start studying for the MCAT, but you seem like a reasonable intelligent individual, so you may not need to dedicate as much time as other people. That's not something we can reasonable evaluate until you get your MCAT scores back.

See if you can't get some clinical experience that's a little more long term (i.e. making 3 hours a week over an extended period of time instead of 100 hours over 3 weeks).

I was not aware you need community service that helps the poor, or teaching. I have done about 10 hours of help at blood drives, obviously not worth noting. As far as teaching goes, I am a private tutor for hire locally, but it is not volunteer work, as I make 40-50 dollars an hour. I also taught at a learning center for one summer. Total hours between the tutoring and learning center are probably around 200.

Mention the teaching in your application. It doesn't matter if it's volunteer or paid work.

The non-clinical volunteering isn't necessarily a "requirement," but it does give adcoms a sense of your altruism, and it also gives you the opportunity to branch out from the medical field.

I intend on starting work in the lab the first day of fall semester (early august). I have already gained acceptance to the lab and am going through the assigned reading and documentation. I will be doing this research the whole year.

That's good. Make sure you mention that on your primary application.

Honestly, I will be applying this term regardless. I would simply like to know my honest chances, and your advice seems as straightforward as they come. Knowing what I just posted above, if I dedicate 100% of the next month to apps and MCAT, what are my chances?v

If you were me, what would you prioritize right now? AMCAS Application, including PS? Committee interview packet? MCATs? I'm kind of going back and forth between everything right now and would really like to know where to start.

At this point in time (considering you haven't started on your PS), it looks like you'll probably end up being complete with applications / MCAT scores in mid-to-late September (after processing), which is less than ideal (but not a deal-breaker, by any means). How that affects your chances depends on if your MCAT score makes you a marginal candidate, or a very desirable one. My main concern with your plan is that your focus will be split between studying for the MCAT and finishing your apps, which may affect how you prep for the MCAT, which in turn may affect your performance on the actual test.

I would say focus on the MCAT over completing your apps (good MCAT score >>> early app with bad MCAT score), but you're really stuck between a rock and a hard place right now. Every week you hold up your application, you increase the time it will take to process it.

As far as update letters, how effective are they? I have almost no coursework this upcoming semester and intend to really only do research and hospital volunteer work. Is that ok?

Since you're deficient in these areas, I think it would be good to let med schools know that you're addressing them.

 

[Catalystik]

1) I was not aware you need community service that helps the poor, or teaching.

2)) As far as teaching goes, I am a private tutor for hire locally, but it is not volunteer work, as I make 40-50 dollars an hour. I also taught at a learning center for one summer. Total hours between the tutoring and learning center are probably around 200.

3) For the nutritional company, I helped people with all sorts of questions, but mostly dealing with people with dietary issues, people without health insurance who needed advice, and supplementation advice. The reason I went into it is because I ran into a bunch of dietary problems 1 year ago that are actually the reason my entire application schedule has been thrown off.

4) I intend on starting work in the lab the first day of fall semester (early august). I have already gained acceptance to the lab and am going through the assigned reading and documentation. I will be doing this research the whole year.

5) Honestly, I will be applying this term regardless. I would simply like to know my honest chances, and your advice seems as straightforward as they come. Knowing what I just posted above, if I dedicate 100% of the next month to apps and MCAT, what are my chances?

6) If you were me, what would you prioritize right now? AMCAS Application, including PS? Committee interview packet? MCATs? I'm kind of going back and forth between everything right now and would really like to know where to start.

7) As far as update letters, how effective are they?

8) I have almost no coursework this upcoming semester and intend to really only do research and hospital volunteer work. Is that ok?

1) They aren't "required," but if you have them your application will appeal to a broader range of schools. having some philanthropic efforts to list still helps.

2) Excellent. Whether volunteer or paid, teaching is listed under Teaching, and helps you.

3) Did you promote a product of the nutritional company? And please don't admit that you gave medical advice. "Provided support," however, is legit. Wasd it an on-line support community, similar to SDN?

4) Good. You have that covered.

5) Without an MCAT score, it's impossible to give you a number supported by data. Your high GPAs are a good start. I'd consider the clinical experience/shadowing issue to be a huge negative that overwhelms the pluses of Teaching and Leadership. I've seen otherwise excellent applications with high GPAs and MCATs fail due to that one weakness. On the other hand, I've also seen acceptances against the odds at a few schools that are less fussy, usuallly where numbers are high. So you aren't completely out of luck.

6) Focus on the MCAT. You have limited time and a poor score will reflect negatively at many schools (where scores are averaged), even though a retake shows improvement. Limit yorself to 8-10 hours of study per day so you don't burn out. With your free time, work on other things. NOT SDN!

7) At many schools they are helpful, but mainly if your application is borderline. Some schools don't look at them until after the interview. Some don't accepta them at all.

8) Yes.

 

[AugustMCAT]

A month is a little short to start studying for the MCAT, but you seem like a reasonable intelligent individual, so you may not need to dedicate as much time as other people. That's not something we can reasonable evaluate until you get your MCAT scores back.

See if you can't get some clinical experience that's a little more long term (i.e. making 3 hours a week over an extended period of time instead of 100 hours over 3 weeks).

Mention the teaching in your application. It doesn't matter if it's volunteer or paid work.

The non-clinical volunteering isn't necessarily a "requirement," but it does give adcoms a sense of your altruism, and it also gives you the opportunity to branch out from the medical field.

That's good. Make sure you mention that on your primary application.

At this point in time (considering you haven't started on your PS), it looks like you'll probably end up being complete with applications / MCAT scores in mid-to-late September (after processing), which is less than ideal (but not a deal-breaker, by any means). How that affects your chances depends on if your MCAT score makes you a marginal candidate, or a very desirable one. My main concern with your plan is that your focus will be split between studying for the MCAT and finishing your apps, which may affect how you prep for the MCAT, which in turn may affect your performance on the actual test.

I would say focus on the MCAT over completing your apps (good MCAT score >>> early app with bad MCAT score), but you're really stuck between a rock and a hard place right now. Every week you hold up your application, you increase the time it will take to process it.


Since you're deficient in these areas, I think it would be good to let med schools know that you're addressing them.

Thank you very much good sir! Yeah, I really didn't plan on being in this position, but sometimes life happens.

As it is, even though I am working on apps, I am living and breathing MCAT info. I have audio osmosis from exam krackers going while I'm filling out my apps, while I'm driving anywhere, and even when sitting down to relax a bit.

The clinical experience will be very long term once the semester starts, as I plan on utilizing a hospital volunteer program that your university makes available.

I will mention the teaching thank you.

So what are my most glaring ECs that are missing? Research experience, clinical exposure in America (never realized country was such a big deal), or lack of helping the poor. Wouldn't my volunteer work as a nutritional company representative count as non-clinical volunteer work?

Three final Qs:

-Where on the application would I mention my intentions to work in a lab/volunteer in a hospital this upcoming semester?

-What is the reasonable deadline for application submissions? My MCAT is August 5th so that is the "MCAT Deadline". I feel like I could prioritize better if I knew when I should have my application submitted by so that my chances aren't significantly hurt.

-For my volunteer work as a nutritional company representative, I get an overwhelming amount of praise for my patience and caring. If I could get a document listing the feedback for around 20 people that I've helped along with contact info, would that be an appropriate addition to my app?

 

[AugustMCAT]

1) They aren't "required," but if you have them your application will appeal to a broader range of schools. having some philanthropic efforts to list still helps.

2) Excellent. Whether volunteer or paid, teaching is listed under Teaching, and helps you.

3) Did you promote a product of the nutritional company? And please don't admit that you gave medical advice. "Provided support," however, is legit. Wasd it an on-line support community, similar to SDN?

4) Good. You have that covered.

5) Without an MCAT score, it's impossible to give you a number supported by data. Your high GPAs are a good start. I'd consider the clinical experience/shadowing issue to be a huge negative that overwhelms the pluses of Teaching and Leadership. I've seen otherwise excellent applications with high GPAs and MCATs fail due to that one weakness. On the other hand, I've also seen acceptances against the odds at a few schools that are less fussy, usuallly where numbers are high. So you aren't completely out of luck.

6) Focus on the MCAT. You have limited time and a poor score will reflect negatively at many schools (where scores are averaged), even though a retake shows improvement. Limit yorself to 8-10 hours of study per day so you don't burn out. With your free time, work on other things. NOT SDN!

7) At many schools they are helpful, but mainly if your application is borderline. Some schools don't look at them until after the interview. Some don't accepta them at all.

8) Yes.

And thank you as well! If you could also address the 3 questions in my previous post, that would be great. I would really like to know the realistic deadline for my app.

For the nutritional company, my work was very broad. I did promote products of the company and also collaborated with the entire staff from a business and scientific standpoint as well. The setting is similar to SDN. However, I took it to the next level as well. On my phone, I have about 6 long running text conversations with people who are in dire need of help. One of them finally got a doctor's appt for bloodwork this morning actually and I was really happy for him.

As far as my clinical experience/shadowing, will it really hurt that much even if I am getting 2 more weeks in this summer, as well as many more hours during the school year? I can talk about it a lot in my interview, my work in germany was all encompassing...I viewed work from literally every department in the hospital so that I could better understand if a specific concentration of medicine was right for me. For shadowingL We're talking about open heart surgery to endoscopies to more tame tasks like ultrasound. For Volunteer work: I did my rounds with many other employees of the hospital many times a day, checking on each individual patient's condition, comforting them, and getting them medical care when requested. It was also a bizarre experience because I was undergoing some serious health issues at the time as well that made even getting out of bed extremely difficult. This was actually going to be the topic of my PS.

Anyway, thanks again for your help and if you could let me know about those few questions I'd greatly appreciate it!

 

[Whatyousay]

Three final Qs:

(1)Where on the application would I mention my intentions to work in a lab/volunteer in a hospital this upcoming semester?

(2) What is the reasonable deadline for application submissions? My MCAT is August 5th so that is the "MCAT Deadline". I feel like I could prioritize better if I knew when I should have my application submitted by so that my chances aren't significantly hurt.

(3) For my volunteer work as a nutritional company representative, I get an overwhelming amount of praise for my patience and caring. If I could get a document listing the feedback for around 20 people that I've helped along with contact info, would that be an appropriate addition to my app?

(1)There should be section on AMCAS where you list 15 important activities / ECs. Indicate in the timeline they give you that the activity is ongoing, and mention in the description that you will continue through the year.


(2) It's hard to say. Reasonable would be "as soon as possible," but that doesn't mean you should rush your app and turn in something that's mediocre. Honestly, your focus at this time should be your MCAT. The main thing that you want to consider is that the current time to verify apps seems to be ~ 3-4 weeks. By the time August comes around, the verification period will probably increase to 6 weeks (due to the increased numbers of apps piling up).

(3) That might be something that would be more appropriate for an update letter. It would probably be more useful if you could get a LOR from a supervisor at the company testifying to your people skills, rather than individual feedback.

 

[AugustMCAT]

(1)There should be section on AMCAS where you list 15 important activities / ECs. Indicate in the timeline they give you that the activity is ongoing, and mention in the description that you will continue through the year.


(2) It's hard to say. Reasonable would be "as soon as possible," but that doesn't mean you should rush your app and turn in something that's mediocre. Honestly, your focus at this time should be your MCAT. The main thing that you want to consider is that the current time to verify apps seems to be ~ 3-4 weeks. By the time August comes around, the verification period will probably increase to 6 weeks (due to the increased numbers of apps piling up).

(3) That might be something that would be more appropriate for an update letter. It would probably be more useful if you could get a LOR from a supervisor at the company testifying to your people skills, rather than individual feedback.

Amazing man, thank you so much for your time. I wish I had 1 million rep points so I could give them all to you haha.

Also general Q for the app: Should I list classes I am going to be taking this upcoming semester and check the "current/future" box? Also, how should I go about adding AP course?

Thanks again!

 

[Whatyousay]

Amazing man, thank you so much for your time. I wish I had 1 million rep points so I could give them all to you haha.

Also general Q for the app: Should I list classes I am going to be taking this upcoming semester and check the "current/future" box? Also, how should I go about adding AP course?

Thanks again!

Yes, there should be an option for designating courses that you plan on taking.

You add AP courses based on how they appear on your transcript - i.e. if you have AP Chem and your school gave you course credit for Chem I and II, then you would indicate as so on the application.

Here's the thread if you have any more specific AMCAS questions:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=823760

A lot of the answers you're looking for about the application should be there.

 

[Whatyousay]

By the way, I would request an official transcript from your registrar's office and mail it off to AMCAS now. It may take them a while to verify your transcripts at this point, so you don't want to add any additional delay to your primary app verification whenever you happen to turn it in.

 

[AugustMCAT]

By the way, I would request an official transcript from your registrar's office and mail it off to AMCAS now. It may take them a while to verify your transcripts at this point, so you don't want to add any additional delay to your primary app verification whenever you happen to turn it in.

Already done my friend, thank you for your concern! I think for the next 3-4 days, I will just be hammering out this application. I need to at least feel like I am on the right track if I want a clear head when I'm dedicating the rest of the time to the MCATs.

 

[Catalystik]

1) Wouldn't my volunteer work as a nutritional company representative count as non-clinical volunteer work?

Three final Qs:

2) -Where on the application would I mention my intentions to work in a lab/volunteer in a hospital this upcoming semester?

3) -What is the reasonable deadline for application submissions? My MCAT is August 5th so that is the "MCAT Deadline". I feel like I could prioritize better if I knew when I should have my application submitted by so that my chances aren't significantly hurt.

4) -For my volunteer work as a nutritional company representative, I get an overwhelming amount of praise for my patience and caring. If I could get a document listing the feedback for around 20 people that I've helped along with contact info, would that be an appropriate addition to my app?

For the nutritional company, my work was very broad. I did promote products of the company and also collaborated with the entire staff from a business and scientific standpoint as well. The setting is similar to SDN. However, I took it to the next level as well. On my phone, I have about 6 long running text conversations with people who are in dire need of help. One of them finally got a doctor's appt for bloodwork this morning actually and I was really happy for him.

5) As far as my clinical experience/shadowing, will it really hurt that much even if I am getting 2 more weeks in this summer, as well as many more hours during the school year? I can talk about it a lot in my interview, my work in germany was all encompassing...I viewed work from literally every department in the hospital so that I could better understand if a specific concentration of medicine was right for me. For shadowingL We're talking about open heart surgery to endoscopies to more tame tasks like ultrasound. For Volunteer work: I did my rounds with many other employees of the hospital many times a day, checking on each individual patient's condition, comforting them, and getting them medical care when requested. It was also a bizarre experience because I was undergoing some serious health issues at the time as well that made even getting out of bed extremely difficult. This was actually going to be the topic of my PS.

1) SDN mods might consider listing their contribution as volunteer or leadership, but they don't. I suppose if you could spin it as something along the lines of a crisis hotline, that could work. But if you are getting any compensation, even "points," or it is an expectation of a job, or if the company benefited due to an increase in sales, then it is not volunteer.

2) It is not possible to enter a future date on the Experiences section, but you might mention it in Secondary essays that ask about future plans.

3) If you were Complete at all schools by 9/1, you would be "average." After that is "late." This is my opinion, and opinions vary, as there is no firm definition. At first the negative impact is small, but it increases rapidly over the next month or two and then, near-exponentially. With your plan to take the MCAT Aug5, you can minimize the damage by having your transcripts verified for at least one school before the score comes out. That means submitting ~2 weeks before the time you take the test to be on the safe side. When you see your score, you add appropriate schools depending on how competitve you are and pay the extra money. New schools get the entire application within a business day.

4) No, I agree with Whatyousay on this one.

5) To put your clinical experience into perspective, the average applicant has 1.5 years on their application. It doesn't matter how intense your hours were over a short period, as adcomms are looking for longevity. They want to see evidence of thoughtful consideration of medicine as a career, not a rash, last-minute decision. If you had 3-4 hours per week over a long period of time and the same number of total hours, you'd have been in a far better position.