4 yr. vs 6 yr. OMFS residency?

[jonnycon]

I'm a 3rd year dental student looking to apply to OMFS residencies this upcoming year and I'm still debating between a 4yr. or 6yr. degree. Is oral surgery as a specialty moving in the direction of its surgeons needing an MD to be respected?

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[Jediwendell]

I'm a 3rd year dental student looking to apply to OMFS residencies this upcoming year and I'm still debating between a 4yr. or 6yr. degree. Is oral surgery as a specialty moving in the direction of its surgeons needing an MD to be respected?

No.

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

Hello,

The main difference between a OS with MD or without is an additional 2 years sitting in the medical school and passing the National Boards (in Medicine). A person with an MD degree will have less "restrictions" in their scope of practice. An example would be your friend finished a 6 year program with an MD but does not undergo additional residency (medical) after finishing a program. You just finish a 4 year program so both of you have the SAME oral surgery training credentials to each other. Now, if your friend wants to do breast augmentation (by attending the weekend seminar), he can do so but you can't. If he wants to peform cosmetic procedures on non-traumatized patients then he can but you can't as you are only allowed to do cosmetic procedures on traumatized patients such as gun shot or automobile accidents. In other words, he can do whatever he wants to do with the body but you can't although both of you have exactly OS training. The only difference is he sat in med school for two additional years. Now, I know some OS with MD who have gone through with additional plastic training fellowship and they are certainly deserved to do whatever they want to do. To make the matter worse, some OS went to schools in the Carribean to get their MD degree in just 18 months or less and I felt that this route cheapens the respect that the public and other health professionals to oral surgeons. Those schools due to their "accerelated path" are not accredited by the Commision who oversees medical training in other countries. But yet, these oral surgeons tout an MD under their names although they did not undergo formal classroom training like the regular 6 year MD program. Infact, there was an article recently in the newspaper telling about these OS who got the MD degree by these routes and it was extremely degrading for me to read. DP

 

[rrc]

If he wants to peform cosmetic procedures on non-traumatized patients then he can but you can't as you are only allowed to do cosmetic procedures on traumatized patients such as gun shot or automobile accidents.

That is completely absurd and not true. (Except maybe California.)

Remember kids, this is an open internet forum. Be very weary of what you read in these here parts.

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

Hello,

Please correct my ignorance if you may. I know that in California, the bill is pending since the Governor is asking for additional testimony before OS without MD degree is allowed to do ELECTIVE plastic surgery. This restriction applies to Colorado as well. What you are saying is that OS are allowed to do ELECTIVE cosmetic surgery in all states except in CA? Please enlighten me on this subject. Thanks DP

PS: I left a voice message at the office of legal affairs at the AAOMS regarding the scope of practice cosmetic surgery (ie. facelift, nose job...) for OS without an MD degree and I am anxious to find out. I will post the answer when I find out. Thanks DP

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

Hello,

I just spoke to the AAOMS office and I was advised that ALL OS either with or without MD degree are allowed in ALL states (except CA) to perform plastic surgery .The State of Colororado recently passed the Bill and looks like CA will also follow suit. At this time , OS in CA is allowed to perform plastic surgery only if it is a follow up in a trauma case. Thank you RRC for pointing out this mis-information. DP

 

[rrc]

Hello,

I just spoke to the AAOMS office and I was advised that ALL OS either with or without MD degree are allowed in ALL states (except CA) to perform plastic surgery .The State of Colororado recently passed the Bill and looks like CA will also follow suit. At this time , OS in CA is allowed to perform plastic surgery only if it is a follow up in a trauma case. Thank you RRC for pointing out this mis-information. DP

Sorry if I came across like a jerk, but I just didnt want anyone to be mislead about this sort of thing.

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

Dear RRC,

Thank you for correcting my mis-information ! I am not offended. DP

 

[esclavo]

Hello,

I just spoke to the AAOMS office and I was advised that ALL OS either with or without MD degree are allowed in ALL states (except CA) to perform plastic surgery .The State of Colororado recently passed the Bill and looks like CA will also follow suit. At this time , OS in CA is allowed to perform plastic surgery only if it is a follow up in a trauma case. Thank you RRC for pointing out this mis-information. DP

I will also correct this statement for clarity. Elective facial cosmetic surgery and plastic surgery are not exactly the same thing. Technically, the OMFS fellowship is a Facial Cosmetic fellowship not a "plastics" fellowship. Plastic surgery is a medical residency not a dental residency nor OMFS fellowship. Of all the fellowships, in my opinion, this one should require having an MD the least. Most cosmetic procedures are outpatient surgery, minimally invasive with minimal complications compared to craniofacial surgery or oncologic surgery. The most invasive cosmetic surgery or better said the most invasive surgery with mega cosmetic benefits we already do (orthognathic). You can't tell me a rhinoplasty is more complex and tougher to plan for and execute than a two jaw osteotomy (segmental) with a genioplasty....

 

[north2southOMFS]

Hello,

The main difference between a OS with MD or without is an additional 2 years sitting in the medical school and passing the National Boards (in Medicine). A person with an MD degree will have less "restrictions" in their scope of practice. An example would be your friend finished a 6 year program with an MD but does not undergo additional residency (medical) after finishing a program. You just finish a 4 year program so both of you have the SAME oral surgery training credentials to each other. Now, if your friend wants to do breast augmentation (by attending the weekend seminar), he can do so but you can't. If he wants to peform cosmetic procedures on non-traumatized patients then he can but you can't as you are only allowed to do cosmetic procedures on traumatized patients such as gun shot or automobile accidents. In other words, he can do whatever he wants to do with the body but you can't although both of you have exactly OS training. The only difference is he sat in med school for two additional years. Now, I know some OS with MD who have gone through with additional plastic training fellowship and they are certainly deserved to do whatever they want to do. To make the matter worse, some OS went to schools in the Carribean to get their MD degree in just 18 months or less and I felt that this route cheapens the respect that the public and other health professionals to oral surgeons. Those schools due to their "accerelated path" are not accredited by the Commision who oversees medical training in other countries. But yet, these oral surgeons tout an MD under their names although they did not undergo formal classroom training like the regular 6 year MD program. Infact, there was an article recently in the newspaper telling about these OS who got the MD degree by these routes and it was extremely degrading for me to read. DP

Dude, what are you talking about??????? I have a feeling the guys who are doing breast augmentations either own their own surgery center or did some serious extra training. No hospital in their right mind should give an OMFS privalages to do breast surgery!, no matter how many degrees they have! Oh and contrary to popular belief you do actually learn quite a bit in medical school, dare i say more medicine than a four year resident who didn't go to medical school. The difference is that we learn more about things most oral surgeons could give 2 $hits about, such as neuro, psych, ob/gyn, peds....etc. Man, your a prostodontist.



Go wax a crown.

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

Hello,

You have a very professional way of letting your view point heard. By the way, it is spelled PROSTHODONTIST. DP

 

[omfs44]

So can a omfs guy with MD do facial cosmetic surgery in california? I heard that the bill that was vetoed by the governor applied to all OMFS, with and without MD. Can someone confirm that?

 

[omfs44]

So can a omfs guy with MD do facial cosmetic surgery in california? I heard that the bill that was vetoed by the governor applied to all OMFS, with and without MD. Can someone confirm that?

 

[TiggerJSA]

Hello,

You have a very professional way of letting your view point heard. By the way, it is spelled PROSTHODONTIST. DP

C'mon guys, settle down a little... Now, I've read a lot of Dr. Phan's posts, and for the most part, I think he really does offer some good advice in some of the other forums, and it is appreciated by many. However, with regards to specialties/residencies that aren't closely tied with DP's area of practice, please, DP, be sure to be certain that the advice you offer is sound. N2S, I appreciate your posts too, so don't want to see a forum celebrity death match between you two. And, for the love of God, if I see another spell check on any forum, I think I may have to give you paper cuts in your eyeballs

 

[Doggie]

C'mon guys, settle down a little... Now, I've read a lot of Dr. Phan's posts, and for the most part, I think he really does offer some good advice in some of the other forums, and it is appreciated by many. However, with regards to specialties/residencies that aren't closely tied with DP's area of practice, please, DP, be sure to be certain that the advice you offer is sound. N2S, I appreciate your posts too, so don't want to see a forum celebrity death match between you two. And, for the love of God, if I see another spell check on any forum, I think I may have to give you paper cuts in your eyeballs

Dont forget to give one in the oral commisures like steve-o did. YOWZA!

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

Hello,

Despite to my best ability, I am very incorrect at times and I appreciate all the corrections/suggestions by all of you. My understanding regarding OMFS is incorrect and I have posted a reply of correcting my misinformation. Regarding the CA bill, per conversation with the Office of Legal Affairs of the AAOMFS, at this time OS without MD in CA are not allowed to perform ELECTIVE procedures unless they are part of a follow up case ( ex. cosmetic procedures following car accidents). Colorado was the last state that allowed what OS in CA wanted. The reason for all the "fighting" in CA is that plastic surgeons want their tuff protected and the media jump on this too! There was an article I believe in Newsweek that started off like " Hey, how about a nip and tuck with that crown?" We all know OS don't do general dentistry but that just shows how ignorance and naieve the public and press are. Thanks all for listening!!! DP

 

[toofache32]

Simmer down!

 

[drhobie7]

I heard of an ER doc that did tons of boob jobs. I don't think you have to be a plastic surgeon to do boob jobs, maybe the MD is enough.

 

[esclavo]

I heard of an ER doc that did tons of boob jobs. I don't think you have to be a plastic surgeon to do boob jobs, maybe the MD is enough.

I heard of an OMFS intern who does lots of rectal exams, maybe desire is more important than the initials behind your name...

 

[Bifid Uvula]

I heard of an OMFS intern who does lots of rectal exams, maybe desire is more important than the initials behind your name...

In my defense.... I wouldn't have to do them if Eslcavo wouldn't keep losing his personal belongings in these patients! Last week i had to go retrieve his watch! The week before that, his car-keys.

6 more months till the next guy has to go fishing.... i'm counting the days!

If you will excuse me, I am going to go and pursue an elective pelvic exam on a very hottt nurse. Its the only way to supress Eslavo's punishment....

 

[north2southOMFS]

I heard of an ER doc that did tons of boob jobs. I don't think you have to be a plastic surgeon to do boob jobs, maybe the MD is enough.

The reason these guys are doing this is most likely because they pursued extra training in this stuff. And the extra training is only available to those with an MD. Which is exactly why dentists cannot get it and 4 year omfs guys can't do them. It's like expecting a lawyer to be able to get advanced training in facelifts. when its not your job, why the hell would they let you do it?

 

[BSSO2000]

these threads are the ****! I love this comedy

 

[north2southOMFS]

Oh you dug up a juicy one.....