45 Days Paid Leave After Stressful Event

[old_boy]

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Any ED physicians work in an environment that allows this sort of thing?

"At least five FAA employees took 45 days of leave as a result of the incident. ...They were traumatized, their equipment failed. It’s written in the regulations if they experience a traumatic event, they can take time off to go see a psychiatrist…the people working that day did that."

https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/05/us/newark-airport-additional-flight-delays

 

[AlmostAnMD]

A doc in our group was shot at (missed) by a patient and was "allowed" unpaid leave/fmla for counseling

Few weeks

FAA controllers are unionized. EM docs are gears meant to turn. When they lose function or complain, replace them.

Explains the difference! Another reason to get out, your value is only what you generate and has nothing to do with your humanity

 

[Tiger26]

We have a very generous short and long term disability policy, so I think that would be allowed. One of the benefits of working for a large unified system (that and a pension reminiscent the UAW retirement packages)

 

[Powdermonkey]

...

Explains the difference! Another reason to get out, your value is only what you generate and has nothing to do with your humanity

Honest question: do you think that is something unique to the way we have marketed/sold ourselves in the ED? Is that a consequence of being shift workers and not have a unified voice? I'm at an SDG that is very well supported and has been stable in the system for decades. We are entrenched in the hospital committees and operations. Yet I still feel like merely a cog in the chain. Do you think other specialties or folks out in private practice that aren't getting bullied by a corporate group feel the same?

I'm in the midst of a career shift a decade in, so I've started to ponder more about this. Especially with the prospect of a clinic based practice (and normal hours, PTO, holidays off) in my near future.

We've had a bomb brought into our ED that didn't go off because the perp was a ****ty bomb maker, multiple loaded guns, etc. It literally took years and some people/providers being shot outside of a nearby/regional hospital before the admin finally got metal detectors put in. We've been begging for years. I know we are just numbers to them, but I wonder if it's different outside of the hospital proper?


Edit to add:
We didn't get time off after the bomb. Just an email asking if we needed to talk. Not even a lousy pizza party.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

Honest question: do you think that is something unique to the way we have marketed/sold ourselves in the ED? Is that a consequence of being shift workers and not have a unified voice

Oh, 100%, yes. It was a thought I had back when I was in EM but now that I work on the system side it's painfully clear EM docs are just revenue generators. And quite frankly, too proud/republican to succumb to unionization temptation. Which in retrospect is bizarre. We get compared to airline pilots quite a bit, but yet they unionized long ago to protect themselves...

Overall, it's the downside of what was sold to me back as a med student..."clock in, clock out." Sounds nice, except when you clock in and clock out you've no feedback or right to feedback on the clock design.


It's good your SDG is a bigger part of the system. My old one was malignant AF and couldn't possibly care less about docs in the pit, especially night docs like myself.

But now working M-F, regular hours and no weekends, that's a memory I've stopped having nightmares about. If you're in a good SDG that's a different story altogether though....

 

[thegenius]

Any ED physicians work in an environment that allows this sort of thing?

"At least five FAA employees took 45 days of leave as a result of the incident. ...They were traumatized, their equipment failed. It’s written in the regulations if they experience a traumatic event, they can take time off to go see a psychiatrist…the people working that day did that."

https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/05/us/newark-airport-additional-flight-delays

If it were written in our regulations that we could take 45 days off for a traumatizing event, ER docs would do this all the time.

Although we can't kill 240 people all at once.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

Although we can't kill 240 people all at once.

That is a big difference. That, and pilots don't get to repeat their mistakes

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

Honest question: do you think that is something unique to the way we have marketed/sold ourselves in the ED? Is that a consequence of being shift workers and not have a unified voice? I'm at an SDG that is very well supported and has been stable in the system for decades. We are entrenched in the hospital committees and operations. Yet I still feel like merely a cog in the chain. Do you think other specialties or folks out in private practice that aren't getting bullied by a corporate group feel the same?

I'm in the midst of a career shift a decade in, so I've started to ponder more about this. Especially with the prospect of a clinic based practice (and normal hours, PTO, holidays off) in my near future.

We've had a bomb brought into our ED that didn't go off because the perp was a ****ty bomb maker, multiple loaded guns, etc. It literally took years and some people/providers being shot outside of a nearby/regional hospital before the admin finally got metal detectors put in. We've been begging for years. I know we are just numbers to them, but I wonder if it's different outside of the hospital proper?


Edit to add:
We didn't get time off after the bomb. Just an email asking if we needed to talk. Not even a lousy pizza party.

What are you shifting to?

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

A doc in our group was shot at (missed) by a patient and was "allowed" unpaid leave/fmla for counseling

Few weeks

FAA controllers are unionized. EM docs are gears meant to turn. When they lose function or complain, replace them.

Explains the difference! Another reason to get out, your value is only what you generate and has nothing to do with your humanity

Air traffic controllers are actually pretty similar to us. Shift work. Clock in clock out

Here's the thing: there are too many social justice warrior types in this field that would literally come to work in the ED if it were flooded with poison gas and under and active terrorist attack.

I know this because nothing changed during COVID. The sheeple did nothing to advocate for our speciality. Everyone came to work despite not having acceptable PPE (remember when they said reusing N95s was ok?). In NY they were climbing over dead bodies in the hallway. We came to work for the same ****ty base pay while the orthopedists stayed home or washed windows or some BS. We come to work despite all the violence that occurs in our midst and no metal detectors installed despite our begging.

Our field is the ONLY field that has seen a decreased Medicare payment level in the last 5 years.

Despite all this, FMGs are flooding the specialty.

This field is cooked and nothing will save it.

 

[southerndoc]

Any ED physicians work in an environment that allows this sort of thing?

"At least five FAA employees took 45 days of leave as a result of the incident. ...They were traumatized, their equipment failed. It’s written in the regulations if they experience a traumatic event, they can take time off to go see a psychiatrist…the people working that day did that."

https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/05/us/newark-airport-additional-flight-delays

Every single ER shift would probably qualify for leave if they allowed it.

 

[DeadCactus]

Although we can't kill 240 people all at once.

They don't care about 240 people. They care about the $350 million plane and decrease in passengers if the public loses trust in the safety of commercial air travel.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

They don't care about 240 people. They care about the $350 million plane and decrease in passengers if the public loses trust in the safety of commercial air travel.

If anything, that unites us even more! loss of life not nearly as much of a concern as PR

 

[Powdermonkey]

What are you shifting to?

Pm'd.

Sports med is the plan.

 

[old_boy]

Although we can't kill 240 people all at once.

Honestly, I think it's worse emotionally to see a kid die and then have to go treat the ankle sprain next door and apologize for the wait with a smile on your face.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

Sports med is the plan.

That's really cool. I came reeeeeally close to applying for that fellowship. Talked a few guys that did it, generally a healthier/more motivated population, better hours....good for you!

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

Air traffic controllers are actually pretty similar to us. Shift work. Clock in clock out

Here's the thing: there are too many social justice warrior types in this field that would literally come to work in the ED if it were flooded with poison gas and under and active terrorist attack.

I know this because nothing changed during COVID. The sheeple did nothing to advocate for our speciality. Everyone came to work despite not having acceptable PPE (remember when they said reusing N95s was ok?). In NY they were climbing over dead bodies in the hallway. We came to work for the same ****ty base pay while the orthopedists stayed home or washed windows or some BS. We come to work despite all the violence that occurs in our midst and no metal detectors installed despite our begging.

I mean I felt like this was because you guys (like the rest of us) needed the money not so much a social justice thing but I wasn’t there.

I remember many posts about reduced volumes and even layoffs/hour reductions or whatever you’d call them.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Also, during Covid, Dr volunteered to work in the emergency department. Nurses did not.

 

[comp1]

This is available to all federal employees including physicians, nurses, etc.

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

Also, during Covid, Dr volunteered to work in the emergency department. Nurses did not.

I remember NYC begging for doctors to come work in their hospitals for as little as 300/ hr and people actually doing it. Like wut? 300/hr 1099 is all it takes for you to work in an active biohazard warzone with no PPE and climbing over dead bodies?? Physicians always do this thing where they run into burning buildings and it's why we lose.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Air traffic controllers are actually pretty similar to us. Shift work. Clock in clock out

Here's the thing: there are too many social justice warrior types in this field that would literally come to work in the ED if it were flooded with poison gas and under and active terrorist attack.

I know this because nothing changed during COVID. The sheeple did nothing to advocate for our speciality. Everyone came to work despite not having acceptable PPE (remember when they said reusing N95s was ok?). In NY they were climbing over dead bodies in the hallway. We came to work for the same ****ty base pay while the orthopedists stayed home or washed windows or some BS. We come to work despite all the violence that occurs in our midst and no metal detectors installed despite our begging.

Our field is the ONLY field that has seen a decreased Medicare payment level in the last 5 years.

Despite all this, FMGs are flooding the specialty.

This field is cooked and nothing will save it.

The CoVID thing messed up medicine in so many different ways…lots of weird things happened. ER docs, hospitalists, and most of the “shift work” specialties got screwed. Some took pay cuts while they worked their butts off.

Meanwhile, the hospitals shut down the ORs and surgeons sometimes got fired.

Meanwhile, in the OP clinics, some of us were super busy. As a rheumatologist, some of the busiest months I ever worked were during the summer of 2020. Some of the visits were virtual, but ultimately we switched back to in person visits with inadequate PPE provided (I was buying Korean KN-95s myself online and waiting for them to be shipped to me, as my hospital only gave me a ****ty fabric ski mask as PPE and told me that was adequate.) For a while, OP clinics like myself were apparently some of the only parts of the hospital system that made money (or so we were told)…so admin was trying to pack my clinic with as many patients as humanly possible, up to 25-30 a day, and got pissed at me when I told them that was not realistic. Then, my scribe infected me with CoVID after she went to visit her sick boyfriend one weekend…that was a brutal illness, and it was before vaccines were available. I was happy I recovered. Admin tried to force me to come back to clinic before my quarantine time ended…had to threaten legal action etc.

Eventually I bailed out of that job. CoVID sucked.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

Admin tried to force me to come back to clinic before my quarantine time ended…had to threaten legal action etc.

You have a lot of power as a specialist. In the midst of the lockdown, our boss told us directly if we get a fever "take tylenol and move on." After one person tried to quarantine it was obvious what kind of hole that made in the schedule so they told us to work sick. And this wasn't the hospital, this was our own leadership kneecapping us.

"leadership," I should say.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Honestly, I think it's worse emotionally to see a kid die and then have to go treat the ankle sprain next door and apologize for the wait with a smile on your face.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong. You think it's emotionally worse to see a kid die and then go apologize to someone for making them wait for their ankle sprain than it is to make a mistake that results in 240 people dead?

I've never made a mistake that resulted in 240 dead, but I was one of first on scene to a plane crash with 230 people dead, including a LOT of kids.

I'll take the one dead kid and apologizing to ankle sprain over that again.

 

[old_boy]

Maybe I'm reading this wrong. You think it's emotionally worse to see a kid die and then go apologize to someone for making them wait for their ankle sprain than it is to make a mistake that results in 240 people dead?

I've never made a mistake that resulted in 240 dead, but I was one of first on scene to a plane crash with 230 people dead, including a LOT of kids.

I'll take the one dead kid and apologizing to ankle sprain over that again.

I can’t speak for others. The (fortunately few) children that I’ve coded are seared into my brain forever and haunt my dreams.

I’m sure being a first responder to a plane crash was traumatic, and thank you for the work that you do. All first line medical workers have my respect. I’ve never been behind a computer screen (the air traffic controller) and been responsible for the deaths of 240. I imagine it would be horrific as well. It’s different than what you saw, however. I feel more emotional trauma being present for a senseless death (the child) than for the thousands of people I’ve admitted to die upstairs in our ICUs, and I believe for me the ATC trauma would be less intense. Untimely death is tragic all around however and the weight of playing a role in any is heavy. You and others may feel different and that is fine.