$485,000 Debt

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BoxcarWilly

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So I was taking a stab at doing some math regarding the cost of an osteopathic education.

Considering that some schools are getting close to $47,000 it is really making me reconsider.

$47,000 x 4 years @ 7% = $219,000 then another 3 years at 7% during residency is $268,000

This in addition to $20,000 of ugrad loans. $20,000 for 7 years at 7% is $32,000

If I chose to pay this off in 15 years the total cost of debt and interest would be $485,000.

Of course this is all in hypothetical but is it really worth it?

I mean, I enjoy bio/chem and all the science but how could I study and concentrate without considering I'll be so far in debt?

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I just checked WV's osteo and they are putting a $80,000 per year budget estimate on their website!

That is just one school.....take a look at all of them!


$80,000 per year....am I reading this correctly? Are you frickin' kidding me? Just so I can make $150,000 in primary care if I don't (really can't) become a specialist?

$80,000 per year is $453,000 waiting for me after residency? Please show me where I'm wrong.
 
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I just checked WV's osteo and they are putting a $80,000 per year budget estimate on their website!

That is just one school.....take a look at all of them!


$80,000 per year....am I reading this correctly? Are you frickin' kidding me? Just so I can make $150,000 in primary care if I don't (really can't) become a specialist?

$80,000 per year is $453,000 waiting for me after residency? Please show me where I'm wrong.

That sounds about right. Sucks doesn't it. :barf:
 
I got this off of TCOM's website (the school where I would ideally like to go, and where my fiancee (whom by then will be the wifey) would like me to go as well):

Non-Resident Student
Tuition $19,650.00
Fees $7,189.00
Books and Supplies $2,682.00
Room and Board $10,857.00
Health Insurance $2,174.00
Transportation $2,869.00
Personal Expenses $2.805.00
Total
$48,226.00


This is for the first year, so it could inflate at ~3% per year, but that isnt horrible for out of state. It seems like more state schools should be affiliating themselves with the D.O. programs. For example, here in Washington, they actually thought it was a good idea to start an independent D.O. school in Yakima, PNUHS. What happened? The got $3 mil of the required $20 mil.
They shoulda thought about combining with Washington State University, which already has excellent pharmacy and nursing schools, and has professors teaching pre-med in Pullman that are on the UWSOM WWAMI program. And if the affiliated, tuition would be far less as WSU has amazing funding and great scholarships as it is.
 
If anyone is wanting to do primary care and he or she personally pays for everything, he/she is either bold or stupid. There are SOOO many programs that pay for part or all of your student loans or even your medical education if you commit to or decide to do primary care that such figures as quoted above may be mathematically accurate but hardly seem correct in principle.

Just my $.02
T
 
I got this off of TCOM's website (the school where I would ideally like to go, and where my fiancee (whom by then will be the wifey) would like me to go as well):

Non-Resident Student
Tuition $19,650.00
Fees $7,189.00
Books and Supplies $2,682.00
Room and Board $10,857.00
Health Insurance $2,174.00
Transportation $2,869.00
Personal Expenses $2.805.00
Total
$48,226.00

This is for the first year, so it could inflate at ~3% per year, but that isnt horrible for out of state
.

yeah, almost $50,000 is bad. Considering simple TVM

Debt also doesn't just sit there. It compounds, stacks, accumulates, and will mutiply like cancer. Interest rates are also pretty low....imagine rates in the 1980s when CDs were paying 15% and 20%!

If the $50,000 per year doesn't scare you, it should. $200,000 at 7% is $39 dollars per day in interest, everyday, 365. Day in and day out interest getting bigger, growing, as the a pack of fat, bankers rube their hands and smile and lick their chops, drooling.

All I'm saying is that we need to be prepared for these expenses. Take some time with an excel spreadsheet and make some formulas. Try www.dinkytown.com for some java calculators.

I just want people to be prepared before they get into debt. Esp, since primary care docs incomes are going to be less.

I hate the idea of being an indentured servant.
 
I guess the expense of being a doctor shouldn't be a surprize to me.

It explains the small group of primary care docs that were gathered near the entrance of the hospital.

I felt sorry for them.

They were warming their hands over a small fire and roasting hot dogs. Their filthly white jackets, covered in ash.

Bums.
 
I guess the expense of being a doctor shouldn't be a surprize to me.

It explains the small group of primary care docs that were gathered near the entrance of the hospital.

I felt sorry for them.

They were warming their hands over a small fire and roasting hot dogs. Their filthly white jackets, covered in ash.

Bums.
I think the best solution is to just not think about....thanks for throwing this in my face willy...jk

Just remember that it isn't just an Osteopathic school thing....all private MD and DO schools are relatively in the same price range (of course there will be exceptions)......but a higher % DO schools are indeed private....
 
For one, I'm not sure how WVSOM calculates $80k/yr for out of state, unless their out of state tuition/fees alone is around $65k. And if that's the case, maybe they're just trying to inhibit out of staters from going to school there. I know it's a good school and all, but $65k/yr is just outrageous.

But somehow, if going out of state to WVSOM is your only option, it's not like you won't make it back once your done with your residency. Also, there are programs out there to encourage people to go into primary care. National Health Service Corps has a loan repayment program, and basically they give PCPs somewhere around $25k/yr in loan repayments (on top of your salary) for the first two years, and I the state you're working in usually kicks in a little bit too, around $10k/yr or so and it goes up annually, or bi-annually. The only catch is that you have to sign a contract for two years, and then renew annually after that (I'm pretty sure at least...) and you have to work in an area that they classify as underserved.

So doing that for a few years could put a big dent in your principal, and thus greatly reduce the total amount of interest you pay. Plus don't forget that you can deduct the interest you pay on your loans from your taxes.
 
Debt sucks

Go into plastics and you wont have to worry

;)
 
there is a reason why TCOM is my first choice (in-state tuition) :)
You can also go into military, which I have thought about. You get money while in school and they pay the whole tuition?

it seems like a good option... plus, i always wanted to serve for our country so it wouldnt be a bad choice. Plus, for certain specialty, military provides great residencies. I dont know how competitive nor know how they work.

If you do want to go into primary care, those tuition forgiveness programs wouldnt be a bad option.

I dont know, what i will do, first I have to:
1. do well in mcat
2. do well in grad school
3. write a good application
4. write a good secondary
5. get invited for interview
6. do well in the interview
7. pray alot !!
8. pay matriculation fee ...
9. then decide, how to pay for school :)

just focus on your school and application, worry about it when the time comes...
 
So I was taking a stab at doing some math regarding the cost of an osteopathic education.

Considering that some schools are getting close to $47,000 it is really making me reconsider.

$47,000 x 4 years @ 7% = $219,000 then another 3 years at 7% during residency is $268,000

This in addition to $20,000 of ugrad loans. $20,000 for 7 years at 7% is $32,000

If I chose to pay this off in 15 years the total cost of debt and interest would be $485,000.

Of course this is all in hypothetical but is it really worth it?

I mean, I enjoy bio/chem and all the science but how could I study and concentrate without considering I'll be so far in debt?

100,000 in undergrad debt, 200,000 in medical school debt = me.

Deal with it. Marry a supermodel. Sell your organs. Rob Rich people.

the end.
 
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100K debt for undergrad? That is beyond ridiculous.
 
100K debt for undergrad? That is beyond ridiculous.

Why?

$25,000/year for 4 years. Definately believable. Im close to that.

My schools tuition was $26,000/year. After scholarships and savings...it added up
 
100,000 in undergrad debt

Daaaaaannnnggggg. Makes me appreciate parents and scholarships more now. And dread the future of med school debt :( Oh well, its worth it. I think I could prolly save up quite a bit working for a year and a half as an RN while getting application stuff in order. And my fiancee (wife in a year) will be making the house payments, thank goodness for an SO.
 
Daaaaaannnnggggg. Makes me appreciate parents and scholarships more now. And dread the future of med school debt :( Oh well, its worth it. I think I could prolly save up quite a bit working for a year and a half as an RN while getting application stuff in order. And my fiancee (wife in a year) will be making the house payments, thank goodness for an SO.

My schools tuition was over 30,000 a year. What's worse, I was an RA for three years (free room and partial board). Even that and the scholarship I got going there still left me with a lot left to pay.
 
I'm just pissed that u-grad left me with 17k of Stafford debt which lowers the total amount I can take on in med school...meaning that 17k will now be for higher interest loans :mad:

Does anyone NOT go with the PLUS loans for their additional money past the stafford cap?
 
Okay you're all making me want to choose the cheapest school I got into, regardless of anything else! YIKES! :scared:
 
I'm just pissed that u-grad left me with 17k of Stafford debt which lowers the total amount I can take on in med school...meaning that 17k will now be for higher interest loans :mad:

Does anyone NOT go with the PLUS loans for their additional money past the stafford cap?

I dont think I am going with PLUS. The interest rate is 8.5 fixed and I think I can do better with a private loan based on my credit score.
 
I'm just pissed that u-grad left me with 17k of Stafford debt which lowers the total amount I can take on in med school...meaning that 17k will now be for higher interest loans :mad:

Does anyone NOT go with the PLUS loans for their additional money past the stafford cap?

I have about 4k in undergrad debt that I am paying off right after I graduate. Once I pay, will I be able to take out the full amount again?
 
So I was taking a stab at doing some math regarding the cost of an osteopathic education.

Considering that some schools are getting close to $47,000 it is really making me reconsider.

$47,000 x 4 years @ 7% = $219,000 then another 3 years at 7% during residency is $268,000

This in addition to $20,000 of ugrad loans. $20,000 for 7 years at 7% is $32,000

If I chose to pay this off in 15 years the total cost of debt and interest would be $485,000.

Of course this is all in hypothetical but is it really worth it?


I mean, I enjoy bio/chem and all the science but how could I study and concentrate without considering I'll be so far in debt?

You're making too many assumptions here that my head is starting to hurt.
1. You probably will not have to take out the entire amount. Some of those numbers are estimate, and if you live below your means, you can decrease that amount. Also, if you start now, and start applying for some private scholarships, you might get lucky and even further reduce that amount. This might be a nice place to start.

2. Even if you have to pay that much, some of it is subsidized, which means interest does not accumulate when you are in school. I didn't even bother check the math you did there but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and presume you used simple interest and added in the fact that the principal is capitilized, instead of interest being compounded during the school years.

3. Are you claiming forebearance during residency? If not, then you would be expected to pay down the interest and principal during those years. Might as well throw out that cooky math up there because that amount decreases as time goes on during those three years in residency. If you do claim forebearance, that is your choice to pay a higher total amount back rather than start repayment earlier, so do not claim that as a excuse.

4. After the 3 years, you then still want to only make the minimum payment when you can obviously contribute a little more. Once again, throw away the $400K number you have up there.

5. I'm sure there are more factors that you seemed to have ignored, but I'm sure others will be nice enough to point them out.

Good Luck with paying those 'huge freaking' loans.

That was a reference to Boondock Saints if the tone of the huge freaking guy didn't come off well in text.:D
 
I'm just pissed that u-grad left me with 17k of Stafford debt which lowers the total amount I can take on in med school...meaning that 17k will now be for higher interest loans :mad:

Does anyone NOT go with the PLUS loans for their additional money past the stafford cap?
The max for stafford each year is 38,500 (medical school students may be able to borrow up to $40,500 a year starting next year) for four years at that tuition puts you at $172,000 for current students with $38,500 a year (say who graduate this year) and $189,125 total for those entering next year. Your $17K won't affect you for maxing out your staffords.
 
You're making too many assumptions here that my head is starting to hurt.
1. You probably will not have to take out the entire amount. Some of those numbers are estimate, and if you live below your means, you can decrease that amount. Also, if you start now, and start applying for some private scholarships, you might get lucky and even further reduce that amount. This might be a nice place to start.
Actually, many of the med school budgets are right on I've found. There are ways to limit the budget but not that much honestly unless you find SUPER cheap housing which is the majority of your budget.

IceMan0824 said:
2. Even if you have to pay that much, some of it is subsidized, which means interest does not accumulate when you are in school. I didn't even bother check the math you did there but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and presume you used simple interest and added in the fact that the principal is capitilized, instead of interest being compounded during the school years.
an extreme small amt is unsubsudized, max of $8500 a year and any perkins loans. So the assumption is probably dead on.
IceMan0824 said:
3. Are you claiming forebearance during residency? If not, then you would be expected to pay down the interest and principal during those years. Might as well throw out that cooky math up there because that amount decreases as time goes on during those three years in residency. If you do claim forebearance, that is your choice to pay a higher total amount back rather than start repayment earlier, so do not claim that as a excuse.
Forbearance is a NO NO!. Interest WILL accrue on unsub/perkins during forbearance but it WILL NOT if you claim economic hardship. Two different things. You have to qualify for economic hardship which most can do with at least $150K in debt and making less than $50K a year.
IceMan0824 said:
4. After the 3 years, you then still want to only make the minimum payment when you can obviously contribute a little more. Once again, throw away the $400K number you have up there.
Also, moonlighting helps paydown your private debt first to paydown some of that interest you are paying!

It might actually end up being more than that because private loans are higher than 7% usually as well as the fact that stafford limits are only $40500 but I commend the user for even thinking about it. Many pre-meds have no idea. I've been advised to persue other less expensive careers due to the amount of debt I'm already in, but what's a few hundred thousand more. As long as you max out your staffords (AND THEY LOWER THAT INTEREST RATE NEXT YEAR :mad: ) then you have (almost) free money from the government you can pay off over the next 30 years. Its an opportunity cost equation or at least I look at it like that.
 
Also about the grad loans question, there was a question about it in the financial aid forum but I asked for clarification. I've never dealt with the gradplus loans. I wish I knew about them though. They would have been cheaper for us.
 
.... (snip)

Forbearance is a NO NO!. Interest WILL accrue on unsub/perkins during forbearance but it WILL NOT if you claim economic hardship. Two different things. You have to qualify for economic hardship which most can do with at least $150K in debt and making less than $50K a year.
Also, moonlighting helps paydown your private debt first to paydown some of that interest you are paying!

(snip) ....

How much can one really make moonlighting? And I am assuming that this is residency dependent to (some institutions may not allow it, other may just keep you so busy that you don't have time). I would guess moonlighting during internship year is usually not feasible with some of the brutal call schedules. I'm just trying to get an idea of how much of a dent can really be made, or how much moonlighting can be done while still managing personal time for outside life/family.
 
How much can one really make moonlighting?

Many residents can double their annual income.

$45,000 --> $90,000

Not easy, but it can be done.

Depends on where you work, how much you work and if you program allows moonlighting. Also, some states dont let you moonlight until y our PGY3 year.
 
Actually, many of the med school budgets are right on I've found. There are ways to limit the budget but not that much honestly unless you find SUPER cheap housing which is the majority of your budget.
Yes, but a quote up there had $10,857 for room and board. Thats $904 per month. I don't know about most people, but I plan to use less that that by actually finding that cheap housing, whether by getting in with friends or by other means. Unless we're living in NY or a major city, that number is ridiculous.

an extreme small amt is unsubsudized, max of $8500 a year and any perkins loans. So the assumption is probably dead on.
$8,500 less in principal makes a big deal when we're talking over 4 years. I plan to use that to my advantage, but maybe that's just me.

Forbearance is a NO NO!. Interest WILL accrue on unsub/perkins during forbearance but it WILL NOT if you claim economic hardship. Two different things. You have to qualify for economic hardship which most can do with at least $150K in debt and making less than $50K a year.
I agree. The poster I was replying to was adding interest to the starting principal over those years in residency. This will not happen unless they claim foreberance. That was the point I was trying to get across. In residency, you will be paying down on the interest and principal hence the shoddy math that brought about such huge numbers. So, for the OP math to be even close to being right, the OP will have to claim forebearance and then, it's the OP fault for doing that anyone. See, we agree.

Also, moonlighting helps paydown your private debt first to paydown some of that interest you are paying!
:thumbup: :thumbup:
Now here is someone who has a grip on life and loan and is not running around claiming the sky is falling. I've been outside, and if the sky is falling, then I'm collecting as much manna as I can... I never pass up free food...most time....but I definitely will not pass up food from God

It might actually end up being more than that because private loans are higher than 7% usually as well as the fact that stafford limits are only $40500 but I commend the user for even thinking about it. Many pre-meds have no idea. I've been advised to persue other less expensive careers due to the amount of debt I'm already in, but what's a few hundred thousand more. As long as you max out your staffords (AND THEY LOWER THAT INTEREST RATE NEXT YEAR :mad: ) then you have (almost) free money from the government you can pay off over the next 30 years. Its an opportunity cost equation or at least I look at it like that.
Thats why you budget and plan. Pay off high interest faster if you can. Consolidate if you can. This is simply a cry for help from the OP, and I really don't believe it.
People expect others to finance an education that will make then financially well off, and do not expect those that help them to want something in return.

Yes, people should do some opportunity cost calculations before they sign on the dotted line. If you want to be a doctor, realize that there will be some who will ride your back to payday, but they too will allow you to accomplish your dream...if you don't want that, find another profession, but this is the lot of life. No matter what you want, someone wiill be willing to provide it for you as long as they can see a financial benefit in it for themselves.
 
Non-Resident Student
Tuition $19,650.00
Fees $7,189.00
Books and Supplies $2,682.00
Room and Board $10,857.00
Health Insurance $2,174.00
Transportation $2,869.00
Personal Expenses $2.805.00
Total
$48,226.00

Books and Supplies $2,682.00. I don't know how this is calculated, but with alternate source for books like half.com, this amount looks like it can be reduced. Not to mention alternate ways to get these 'supplies'.

Room and Board $10,857.00. If the schools forces students to reside in dorm, this may not be reduced, but I really think this is too high. Even for residents of huge cities, this number can be reduced.

Transportation $2,869.00. This is a lot of traveling for someone who should be reviewing lecture notes.

Personal Expenses $2.805.00. If you add food and miscellaneous, I can see this amount getting higher but not by much.

Overall, there will be ways to reduce this amount. Working during the summer of first year will help offset the loans you will be required to take out the subsequent years.
 
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