4th yr elective list?

[MedicineMike]

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Bout to start 4th yr and wanted some feedback on rotations I'm scheduling. I plan to do IR in the long run...

I have all electives before Xmas and here are what I have so far

Critical Care
IR
Acing internship/subi
Anesthesia
EM
Vascular surg

Does this sound good? I'm using one of my electives for that subI. Didn't know if that was worth it or not. Thx

 

[TUGM]

schedule looks pretty solid. CC and Vascular surgery electives will be intense.

radiology subIs are hit or miss in the sense that if you are just observing the whole time, then it's really unnecessary and can even work against you since you're bound to look bored at a certain point. IR sub-is can be a bit more challenging, but you really have to put yourself out there and be willing to treat it just like a surgery sub-i - pre-round on your patients, help out with notes, follow-up on patients, READ about your procedures/diseases, and then ask if you can participate. My IR elective, I was allowed to do a lot procedurally because I knew relevant vascular anatomy and pathophysiology.

 

[MedicineMike]

schedule looks pretty solid. CC and Vascular surgery electives will be intense.

radiology subIs are hit or miss in the sense that if you are just observing the whole time, then it's really unnecessary and can even work against you since you're bound to look bored at a certain point. IR sub-is can be a bit more challenging, but you really have to put yourself out there and be willing to treat it just like a surgery sub-i - pre-round on your patients, help out with notes, follow-up on patients, READ about your procedures/diseases, and then ask if you can participate. My IR elective, I was allowed to do a lot procedurally because I knew relevant vascular anatomy and pathophysiology.

The subi is just a medicine subi

 

[maxxor]

What months are scheduling these for? For example, October is the month where you will get a ton of interview invitations which you MUST respond to within 15 minutes. I nearly missed out on two interviews at the beginning of the season because I was on a busy rotation and not checking email as frequently as I needed to. The days of even waiting an hour are long-gone with the advent of Interview Broker and like-services.

My interview season stretched from late October to late January. I have 15 interviews in November alone and 12 in December. Be sure these tough rotations aren't happening during those months.

To answer your question: Is that sub-i early enough to get a letter from for your application? If not, it's not worth it.

You've got to remember that you are not ONLY applying to radiology programs; you've also got to get internship interviews as well. Those are actually more competitive IMO, as you're competing with Derm, Ophtho, Rads, Radonc, and Anesthesia.

 

[MedicineMike]

Sub-I will be in august. Was going to do vascular surg in November but sounds like it might be tough. Maybe I should switch to a lighter surgery option?

 

[Kaputt]

Sub-I will be in august. Was going to do vascular surg in November but sounds like it might be tough. Maybe I should switch to a lighter surgery option?

November is prime-time interview season. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing ANY elective where they expect you to be present more often than not in November. I doubt there would be any leniency during any surgery elective that would allow you to miss that many days. Remember -- you have to try to make as many pre-interview dinners as you can. That means getting earlier flights or leaving early the day before if you're driving. You essentially lose most of the day before an interview.

You could swing EM or anesthesia in November, probably (depends on the # of shifts for EM, and whether or not your anesthesia rotation is a joke). I wouldn't do vascular or critical care until Spring, after interviews (though it will suck to do tough rotations like that later, unless you do them before the interview season starts, it's your only real option).

 

[FluffyRabbit]

What months are scheduling these for? For example, October is the month where you will get a ton of interview invitations which you MUST respond to within 15 minutes. I nearly missed out on two interviews at the beginning of the season because I was on a busy rotation and not checking email as frequently as I needed to. The days of even waiting an hour are long-gone with the advent of Interview Broker and like-services.

My interview season stretched from late October to late January. I have 15 interviews in November alone and 12 in December. Be sure these tough rotations aren't happening during those months.

To answer your question: Is that sub-i early enough to get a letter from for your application? If not, it's not worth it.

You've got to remember that you are not ONLY applying to radiology programs; you've also got to get internship interviews as well. Those are actually more competitive IMO, as you're competing with Derm, Ophtho, Rads, Radonc, and Anesthesia.

Other than research/vacation/reading, what rotations would accommodate checking email every fifteen minutes? Even if I was on a diagnostic radiology elective, it seems that constantly looking at my phone would make me appear disinterested.

 

[maxxor]

Other than research/vacation/reading, what rotations would accommodate checking email every fifteen minutes? Even if I was on a diagnostic radiology elective, it seems that constantly looking at my phone would make me appear disinterested.

I was on diagnostic rads and then research. If you are in the reading room, you just need to communicate that you are applying now, and most residents won't give you flack if you say "oh another interview". If they do, learn proper reading room etiquette and switch to another person. Life (and rotations) are too short to sit voluntarily next to cranky people.

 

[Kaputt]

Other than research/vacation/reading, what rotations would accommodate checking email every fifteen minutes? Even if I was on a diagnostic radiology elective, it seems that constantly looking at my phone would make me appear disinterested.

I would suggest you do research/reading/Step 2 studying in October/November as you collect your interviews. You're right, very few rotations other than rads or pathology would be easy to check your phone at a whim. Doing rotations in December and January really depends on how many interviews you plan on going on and how early you want to finish 4th year.

 

[MedicineMike]

Is doing my sub-I in August worth it? I will finish at the end of August and then will have to havve ERAS submitted by mid-september. What are the odds I get a letter of rec. written and submitted to ERAS in 2 weeks time?

 

[Kaputt]

Is doing my sub-I in August worth it? I will finish at the end of August and then will have to havve ERAS submitted by mid-september. What are the odds I get a letter of rec. written and submitted to ERAS in 2 weeks time?

I did a sub-I in August (finished mid-Sept) and would have been able to get a letter if I needed one (ended up not needing to get it). Sub-I directors understand that people who do sub-Is in August often need letters, at least at my institution, so they tend to be really good about it.

 

[Smurf Account]

Is doing my sub-I in August worth it? I will finish at the end of August and then will have to havve ERAS submitted by mid-september. What are the odds I get a letter of rec. written and submitted to ERAS in 2 weeks time?

I finished my medicine Sub I late September, which I received a letter from in early / mid October. My ERAS application was submitted on the first day it opened in Sept with only 2 LORs, and I received many of my invites during this time despite my application not being "complete."

Not everything has to be in the day you submit your application to receive interviews, programs understand LORs can take time.

 

[maxxor]

Last year, letters were not sent out to programs until Oct 1. Applications were made available on 9/15.

Things may be different this year.

 

[MedicineMike]

If I get a good letter of rec on my Critical Care rotation, do I even need to do a sub-I?

 

[maxxor]

What letters are you planning? I was advised to get
1 medicine / chairman's letter
1 surgical letter
1 radiology letter
1 research or misc

I ended up using
3rd year medicine clerkship letter which was turned into a chairman's letter (prelim programs often want this)
surgery letter
radiology letter
4th year medicine subi letter

you could easily swap out the crit care letter with subi-letter.

Again, be sure to check out internship letter requirements. Many prelim-medicine programs will require a chairman's letter. This is basically a letter that is co-signed by the chair of medicine, but you have to ask for it usually more in advance.

 

[MedicineMike]

I have/plan on having:

-gen surg letter (from 3rd yr and very strong/personal)
-urology letter
-IR letter (very strong/personal)
-Critical Care letter
-maybe another random IR or rads letter

How many do I get to submit to eras? I thought you can only submit 3

 

[maxxor]

ERAS will hold as many as you want. You can only submit 4 to any given program. This way you can send different letter combinations for prelim vs radiology programs.

I was advised to only get 1 radiology letter.

You definitely need a medicine letter. I will defer to the forum to advise on whether the critical care letter will be sufficient or if you need another to replace the urology letter.

Are you planning to do a gen-surg prelim?

 

[MedicineMike]

Are you planning to do a gen-surg prelim?

That is the million dollar question! I honestly would much rather do a surgical prelim for the pure fact I hate medicine and would like to be choosey on location

 

[maxxor]

Then I would ask in the surgery forums about prelim surgery letters, because I had no intention of doing one of those. I wanted to do either TY or medicine, as gensurg prelims in my neck of the woods routinely violate hours rules for interns.

 

[MedicineMike]

Then I would ask in the surgery forums about prelim surgery letters, because I had no intention of doing one of those. I wanted to do either TY or medicine, as gensurg prelims in my neck of the woods routinely violate hours rules for interns.

Yeah that's what I worry about. Where is your neck of the woods?

 

[maxxor]

PMed you

 

[GiraffeAddict]

Actually I'm wondering about this too. I am a "top 4" Carib student (US citizen), and I've got my 4th yr starting in June. Due to school requirements I only have space for the following:

Path
Diagnostic Rads
Neuro (softly required)
Palliative
Emergency (softly required)

Letters from Surgery Chair, another from a HPB surgeon, psych chair/academic dean of my school, and am hoping for one from the associate program director of rads.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

[JoshSt]

Actually I'm wondering about this too. I am a "top 4" Carib student (US citizen), and I've got my 4th yr starting in June. Due to school requirements I only have space for the following:

Path
Diagnostic Rads
Neuro (softly required)
Palliative
Emergency (softly required)

Letters from Surgery Chair, another from a HPB surgeon, psych chair/academic dean of my school, and am hoping for one from the associate program director of rads.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

You'll need one from the chair of radiology. If wanting to do prelim medicine I'd trade the HPB or psychic for a medicine letter.

If affordable, I've heard aways for Caribs do help matching at Carib-friendly programs.

For schedule - I mean, it's 4th year -- they're fine. If IR or research electives are available, I'd drop path and palliative.

 

[Kaputt]

You don't need a letter from a radiology chairman.

But a medicine letter is a good thing to have.

 

[JoshSt]

You don't need a letter from a radiology chairman.

Really? I thought that was standard -- everyone I've seen apply has done it. Maybe not universal.

 

[Kaputt]

Really? I thought that was standard -- everyone I've seen apply has done it. Maybe not universal.

The hands-down most important letters are ones from your clerkships/AIs, like medicine, surgery, etc. A radiology letter is distant to those. I've never heard of anyone needing a radiology chairman's letter, or any of my peers at my school seeking one out. We all typically had a radiology letter but usually from an attending we worked with on an elective or did research with.

 

[maxxor]

Agreed. i had my clerkship director write one.

 

[shark2000]

You don't NEED a radiology recommendation letter. But if you have an excellent radiology LOR, esp from someone who is well known or a program director, it can be very helpful.

Agree with above. LORs from core rotations like IM and GS are the most important ones.

The best letter is the one that has information specific to you. An excellent SPECIFIC TO YOU letter from an IM attending in your university beats a good non-specific radiology letter. People usually care about what is written in the letter. The more specific, the better. Statements like he is good or I highly recommend him may be OK, but are the minimum. The letter should mention things specific to you to be helpful through the process. Otherwise, almost every applicant has letters from a radiologist that highly recommend him.

 

[GiraffeAddict]

Thanks gang, a lot of great advice on letters. So as an update, I've been trying to tool around my 4th yr schedule to get a second radiology elective, but a lot of places I'm looking won't take Carib students to rotate, and my school doesn't allow research electives.

So my question is, is one radiology rotation enough?! I've been trying to bolster/show my dedication, and have been involved with 6 or so radiology projects in various stages at my home base hospital. Can that make up for a lack of additional electives in radiology?!

 

[Bradstein]

The PD for the program where I went to med school encouraged people to take as few radiology electives as possible. He thought it was a red flag to spend your very limited med school rotations on what you'll do the rest of your life. I'd say you're fine based on that.

 

[jyoudan]

ERAS will hold as many as you want. You can only submit 4 to any given program. This way you can send different letter combinations for prelim vs radiology programs.

I was advised to only get 1 radiology letter.

You definitely need a medicine letter. I will defer to the forum to advise on whether the critical care letter will be sufficient or if you need another to replace the urology letter.

Are you planning to do a gen-surg prelim?

Do you think a med chairman letter can go to rads programs or that only goes to prelim programs and I should get a more personalized letter for rad apps?

 

[maxxor]

Do you think a med chairman letter can go to rads programs or that only goes to prelim programs and I should get a more personalized letter for rad apps?

I used
SubI Medicine Letter
Medicine Chairman's letter
Surgery Letter
Radiology letter

for all my apps.