Thoughts on VIR rank list

[viradwarrior]

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[irwarrior]

Were you able to get clinic logs and case logs from the PGY6 residents or graduating residents? Are they doing PAD,varicose veins, DVT/PE, stroke , spine interventions (kypho)/rhizotomy ; BPH, fibroids, MSK/GAE etc ? Are they getting referrals directly from primary care?

Almost any of the above programs will enable you to pass your radiology boards, but not all of the above programs will enable you to build a practice from scratch in the community even if you are highly motivated.

Interesting discussion below

How To Rank an IR Program – Line Monkey MD

linemonkeymd.com

 

[SeisK]

There are ones lower in your ranklist I’d make way higher. And there are ones high in your ranklist I’d make lower.

MCW is probably the number 1 program in your list if your goal is to be 100% high end clinical IR.

 

[irwarrior]

MCW is definitely a powerhouse. They do PAD, aortas, veins, complex MSK interventions , IO etc.

 

[viradwarrior]

Were you able to get clinic logs and case logs from the PGY6 residents or graduating residents? Are they doing PAD,varicose veins, DVT/PE, stroke , spine interventions (kypho)/rhizotomy ; BPH, fibroids, MSK/GAE etc ? Are they getting referrals directly from primary care?

Almost any of the above programs will enable you to pass your radiology boards, but not all of the above programs will enable you to build a practice from scratch in the community even if you are highly motivated.

Interesting discussion below

How To Rank an IR Program – Line Monkey MD

linemonkeymd.com

Thank you for sharing your thoughts! Unfortunately, I did not get case logs from many programs. Much of the thoughts behind the ranking was talking with residents regarding the types of cases they're seeing and their experiences/autonomy as well as how I felt the interview went. To be honest, many of the programs started to sound very similar after speaking with the residents (with regards to types/diversity of cases) which made it hard to separate them aside from location reasons and interview experience.

 

[viradwarrior]

There are ones lower in your ranklist I’d make way higher. And there are ones high in your ranklist I’d make lower.

MCW is probably the number 1 program in your list if your goal is to be 100% high end clinical IR.

Thank you for your thoughts! I did feel that MCW is a great VIR training program. My reasons for ranking it lower on the list was primarily based on the location (don't have any ties to Wisconsin) and I felt that my interview was lukewarm. Otherwise, I definitely would have ranked it higher. Are there specific programs that are high on my list that may not be as clinical as I may have originally felt during my interview? Unfortunately, I did not do away rotations at many of those places so my decision was primarily based on speaking with residents and the information I got from the interviews.

 

[irwarrior]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts! Unfortunately, I did not get case logs from many programs. Much of the thoughts behind the ranking was talking with residents regarding the types of cases they're seeing and their experiences/autonomy as well as how I felt the interview went. To be honest, many of the programs started to sound very similar after speaking with the residents (with regards to types/diversity of cases) which made it hard to separate them aside from location reasons and interview experience.

That is the big challenge. The key is to get objective criteria. How many clinic patients are seen a year, how many hospital admissions a year. How many pad cases that are their actual patients etc.

 

[irwarrior]

The other issue is that many programs become "bottomfeeders". ie they do what is delegated to them by specialists or things that no one , not even the imagers want to do. ie biopsies, drainage procedures (paracentesis/thoracentesis/chest tubes/ g tubes/ abscess drains etc), and lines (piccs/ dialysis lines and ports). VIR trainees need to learn how to compete for referrals. One should learn from Interventional cardiology, they are adept at competing with other specialists including vascular surgery for PAD referrals, carotids , DVT/PE, varicose veins and even aneurysms. Some VIR training programs are also adept at teaching their trainees to compete for referrals. Also, VIR training programs that teach their residents to compete with IC and VS for referrals gives them a mindset and skillset that is seen less and less often in VIR but invaluable to succeeding after graduation. VIR groups that take on pain and spine procedures and compete with ortho, pain anesthesia, neurosurgery , pmnR for referrals will also teach a valuable lesson to their trainee. This is what a prospective student who wants to build a 100 pct practice should look for. If you are looking to do a part time IR/DR or "fall back " on DR one should consider just doing DR and perhaps pursuing a 2 yr VIR independent residency if they realize later they want to do 100 pct VIR or consider doing ESIR and an imaging fellowship that is procedure heavy (MSK, Body, Neuro, mammo etc)..