5 year break between medical school and residency to start a family / raise kids

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msdaisy

msdaisy

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Hi, I have scoured the internet for one case of something close to what I'm about to propose and I haven't found anything!

When I graduate medical school, I want to dedicate the next 5 years to having kids and being a stay at home mom. Ideally, I would also be able to work something out where I could do some research with flexible scheduling and attend a few conferences, but mostly I want dedicated time for the kids. Luckily I do not have to worry about debt/ loans. I'm interested in psych/child psych (maybe peds) and want to do my residency in California.

Does anyone have any specific thoughts/advice on taking a five year "break" to be a stay at home mom between medical school and applying successfully to residency/ internship? Has anyone done something like this? I have read about people taking one year off and the rate of acceptance into programs drops to 40%. So does this mean a five year break is basically a death sentence?
 
msdaisy said:
Hi, I have scoured the internet for one case of something close to what I'm about to propose and I haven't found anything!

When I graduate medical school, I want to dedicate the next 5 years to having kids and being a stay at home mom. Ideally, I would also be able to work something out where I could do some research with flexible scheduling and attend a few conferences, but mostly I want dedicated time for the kids. Luckily I do not have to worry about debt/ loans. I'm interested in psych/child psych (maybe peds) and want to do my residency in California.

Does anyone have any specific thoughts/advice on taking a five year "break" to be a stay at home mom between medical school and applying successfully to residency/ internship? Has anyone done something like this? I have read about people taking one year off and the rate of acceptance into programs drops to 40%. So does this mean a five year break is basically a death sentence?
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Yes.
 
Sorry about that. I'm relatively new to the forums and decided that this topic really should have its own thread. Will delete the other one.
 
Bad idea. The longer you are out of med school, the more your chances for matching into residency plummet. Some residencies even have cutoffs. They will not take applicants who apply 5-7 years after graduation.
 
Without fail, every year, I get impassioned letters and emails from folks who did similar things. Children, care of a sick relative, recovery from a serious illness. These are all good things. They also are things that will doom your application unless you have a PD who is a BFF. Our experience with long-delayed grads is two-fold. They take way longer to get up to speed. And they way more often quit. These two things are painful for the resident and disastrous for programs. What would you have to offer a program that a fresh grad (who is much less likely to have these specific problems) would not? I don't mean that question in a harsh way, but that is the truth.
 
Whatever you do, don't start your medical training with the plan of taking a break at any point, and *especially* not between med school and residency. You're much better off having your kids before, during, or after training rather than taking a break from training. Is it easy to be pregnant or a new parent during med school or residency? No, but people do it. There are other options too, like taking a research year during med school or otherwise delaying your graduation, that will be less harmful to your career than taking time off altogether would be.

It might help us advise you if you could give us some more insight as to what your specific concerns are with regard to having children while being in training. If it's an issue of you wanting to be a full-time mom until the kids start school, then I recommend that you have your family first, and postpone applying to med school until after your kids are older. That will allow you to do the kind of schedule you're envisioning without having to take a break in your training. Check the Nontrad Forum for more info about being a parent in med school/residency.
 
I think you're going to find very little sympathy from a profession largely composed of people who placed their personal lives on the back burner to reach their goals. Then there are the practical issues of skill and knowledge atrophy. I'm continuously amazed by how much general knowledge has left me simply by entering residency and focusing on a smaller portion of the pie. A year, maybe even two, is defensible but a huge mark against you. Taking half a decade off? Your knowledge base is gone. I would no longer be anywhere near functional in a career based on my undergraduate degree and there was far less knowledge to atrophy than medical school brought on board. Finally, there would frankly be a question of resource utilization. Why would a program choose to train someone with a history suggesting a high likelihood that they will simply finish, maintain minimum competency, and practice part-time while focusing on being a full-time mom instead of someone who will dedicate themselves to the profession?

It's harder for women and not fair but there are plenty of physicians of both genders who do an excellent job of raising their families without minimizing their medical career...
 
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Plus you're not going to get any sympathy from the female physicians who didn't take breaks and still had children and raised a family while training.

I have several female classmates/friends from med schools who know are having children and starting families while finishing residency. It's certainly doable.

I'm NOT saying that your decision is wrong or isn't the best for you and your family because frankly, I realize everyone's situation is different and I don't like others criticizing decisions I make for MY family, but we're just pointing out that if this is how you wish to handle starting your family then you just have to realize the impact it's going to have on your career choice.
 
I am often amazed at how fast things change.

Your knowledge base wanes quite rapidly unless its something you are actively using. I see significant changes in my field which, had I not been aware and keeping up to date with my CMEs, I would have assumed were done the same way I was trained in residency. Don't fool yourself into thinking that you will continue to read your textbooks and maintain and expand your knowledge base and skills while at home, especially with children. The boards are filled with women who thought they could study while the baby was sleeping.

As noted above, its a mistake and you are very likely dooming yourself to having yourself a fancy degree and no residency training and no career as a physician.
 
As someone currently applying to medical school, your contemplation of a 5 year break after medical school concerns, confounds, and angers me. Yes, this is your life and you are completely free to make whatever choices you want with it. However, our society needs doctors. We need doctors who are committed to caring for the health of our nation and our world. There are so many people who, if accepted to medical school, would serve our society's needs. Medical school admissions is competitive (duh) and the number of doctors is limited by funding for residencies. You do realize that you are lucky to be accepted to medical school, right? You do realize that you have a responsibility, right? If you aren't committed to serving others through medicine you should not have applied to medical school. You took someone else's spot. You robbed us all of a committed doctor. As a woman, I understand your biological clock and your desire to be a mother, but it really bugs me when mothers take breaks or practice medicine part-time. If we had infinite resources that would be fine. If our country had enough doctors that would be fine. If every qualified applicant were accepted to medical school that would be fine. That is not the world we live in. Doctors are a valuable human resource. We cannot afford for you to take a 5 year mommy break.
 
The above is a very contentious thought but its a real concern: as nearly 50% of some medical schools being comprised of women, are we facing a generation of physicians who work part time or leave medicine after a few years? I can't help but think that is going to create havoc for our society.
 
Winged Scapula said:
The above is a very contentious thought but its a real concern: as nearly 50% of some medical schools being comprised of women, are we facing a generation of physicians who work part time or leave medicine after a few years? I can't help but think that is going to create havoc for our society.
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Just my perspective, but as a future female physician I certainly will not be leaving my field after a few years or dropping down to part time to tend a budding family. I will have worked far too hard and be too deep into my career to "take a break". If I do drop to part time, it'll be replaced by research or public health outreach. Plenty of full time working couples raise happy, healthy kids, and especially with a physician's salary there are many childcare options available. In addition, I fully expect my husband -- physician or not-- to pull his half of the child rearing.
 
You could take a gap year during med school.
Sometimes people do a gap year after med school to do research to buff up their residency apps
If you join the military, you might be able to get a 2-yr "GMO" slot where you practice before applying to residency, but I've heard they're being phased out.

But overall I largely agree with @houston9 . If you're not in this for reals, if you don't plan to contribute to society, to use your training to fill the needs, then don't apply.

You could consider lifestyle-friendly residencies - PMR, Psych, Paeds are all good bets.
Lots of women have kids during residency. Paeds tends to be more forgiving of that sort of thing.

If you choose an academic medicine residency, you might be able to schedule a year of research time, which you could use to have a child.
 
turayza said:
Just my perspective, but as a future female physician I certainly will not be leaving my field after a few years or dropping down to part time to tend a budding family. I will have worked far too hard and be too deep into my career to "take a break". If I do drop to part time, it'll be replaced by research or public health outreach. Plenty of full time working couples raise happy, healthy kids, and especially with a physician's salary there are many childcare options available. In addition, I fully expect my husband -- physician or not-- to pull his half of the child rearing.
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The first thing I think of is: You say that now, but just wait and see...
It might not be fair or accurate, but you don't know what internal/external pressure you'll feel in the future to have a family and spend time with your baby(ies).
Research/outreach is all well and good, but it doesn't meet the country's pressing need for private practice doctors who actually spending their time doctoring.
 
I'm honestly kind of shocked at some of the comments that women will feel "pressured" to drop to part time. While I completely respect a woman's or man's desire to stay at home with the children, it is also 100% possible to work full time and have children. I come from a family where my grandmothers/fathers worked 40+ hours a week, and both my parents work 50+ hour weeks. No one felt the need to drop part time and we have a very close tight knit family. I think that female physicians are as likely to work full time as male physicians, and people shouldn't make assumptions on a females motives because of their biological clocks
 
Gregarious_and_Hilarious said:
I think that female physicians are as likely to work full time as male physicians...
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They aren't.

Female physicians are more likely to work fewer hours per week, less likely to work full time and less likely to work for as many years as their make counterparts. Plenty of data to support that.
 
Gregarious_and_Hilarious said:
I'm honestly kind of shocked at some of the comments that women will feel "pressured" to drop to part time. While I completely respect a woman's or man's desire to stay at home with the children, it is also 100% possible to work full time and have children. I come from a family where my grandmothers/fathers worked 40+ hours a week, and both my parents work 50+ hour weeks. No one felt the need to drop part time and we have a very close tight knit family. I think that female physicians are as likely to work full time as male physicians, and people shouldn't make assumptions on a females motives because of their biological clocks
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a) Medicine is not a normal job, and full time docs rarely (ever?) work as few as 40hrs/wk
b) It's not a blind assumption.
I couldn't find the article I was looking for but these suggest that women tend to work less then men/take more leaves (for kids, obvi), and retire earlier.
http://www.aao.org/yo/newsletter/200806/article04.cfm
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...ool-a-worthwhile-investment-for-women/260051/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/wo...me-women-doctors-are-creating-a-timebomb.html
 
Winged Scapula said:
The above is a very contentious thought but its a real concern: as nearly 50% of some medical schools being comprised of women, are we facing a generation of physicians who work part time or leave medicine after a few years? I can't help but think that is going to create havoc for our society.
Click to expand...
Or are we facing a generation of committed physicians who will work to transform our healthcare system from somewhat of an inefficient mess to a human-focused, equitable institution to admire? I can't help but hope that this will be great for our society.
 
Gregarious_and_Hilarious said:
I think that female physicians are as likely to work full time as male physicians, and people shouldn't make assumptions on a females motives because of their biological clocks
Click to expand...

If you knew me in real life, you would know that I am very vocal about feminist issues and gender equality, but I disagree with this. There's a lot of evidence that show that women are more likely to work less than their male counterparts. It's not an "assumption on female motives because of their biological clocks"; it's a statistical trend.
 
evilbooyaa said:
If the acceptance rate after 1 year of not practicing is 40%, what do you think it will be at 5 years?

I would at least maintain a part-time job, or do this after residency (others can advise if this is adviseable or not).
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We can use the half-life algorithm to come up with an answer:
  • According to an online half-life calculator, the half-life expectancy is 0.75647 of a year since the acceptance rate falls to 40% in one year. Obviously, the theoretical yield is %100 to start off--which is not realistic but oh well.
  • By plugging in the half-life value into T(final)= T(intial) x 0.5^(T/T(1/2)) it can be determined that OP has a %1.023995054978 of being accepted if taking a 5 year leave. This is of course assuming he/she has a %100 chance of starting off and that residency admissions programs follow the half-life algorithm to the tee.
I don't think you can really measure this alogrithmically OP, but by having a little fun with math and listening to everything that is being said, you'll realize that taking such an extended leave is a baaaaaaaad idea.
 
houston9 said:
Or are we facing a generation of committed physicians who will work to transform our healthcare system from somewhat of an inefficient mess to a human-focused, equitable institution to admire? I can't help but hope that this will be great for our society.
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There's no doubt it will change healthcare.
I see women being more interested in becoming employees with flat salaries, because they aren't interested/positioned to take advantage of the financial incentives of independent PP, so doctors salaries might drop. They also might help bring salaries down, because they're less likely to be the sole provider for their family. Whereas a male might want to support a family and a stay at home wife, I think there's a tendency for female physicians to marry up/equal rather than down, for several reasons. This means that female docs don't need the money as much, because they're contributing a supplementary/equal income rather than the main income, so they don't mind a wage drop.
I don't see this making an impact in healthcare costs though. And I don't see a reason to hope. The healthcare "system" is not yet so bad that any change is good change.
Is there any evidence that women more than men care about humanity and equity?
 
karayaa said:
The first thing I think of is: You say that now, but just wait and see...
It might not be fair or accurate, but you don't know what internal/external pressure you'll feel in the future to have a family and spend time with your baby(ies).
Research/outreach is all well and good, but it doesn't meet the country's pressing need for private practice doctors who actually spending their time doctoring.
Click to expand...

Ok, that's fair. We'll see in 10 years.

Would you say, then, that people like MD/PhDs and other MD-something else shouldn't be taking up a good 'ol MD education spot because they won't be full-time clinicians?
 
msdaisy said:
I have read about people taking one year off and the rate of acceptance into programs drops to 40%. So does this mean a five year break is basically a death sentence?
Click to expand...
For a career as a physician, yes. US Seniors are prime meat for Program Directors. Everything else is stale or damaged goods. Even a "research year" that occurs after graduation is a liability.
 
I would seriously look at a PA or nursing program OP, the lifestyle balance seems like it would suit you much better than that of a physician. I think it is perfectly normal and admirable for you to want to start a family and be a dedicated mother at a reasonable age, but these gaps you're proposing aren't really ones you would have to spare as a physician for reasons others have pointed out as well as the extra debt from interest that you will incur, not to mention costs of having a baby.
 
Winged Scapula said:
They aren't.

Female physicians are more likely to work fewer hours per week, less likely to work full time and less likely to work for as many years as their make counterparts. Plenty of data to support that.
Click to expand...
Do you mind telling me where this info is from? For my edification.
 
Gregarious_and_Hilarious said:
I'm honestly kind of shocked at some of the comments that women will feel "pressured" to drop to part time. While I completely respect a woman's or man's desire to stay at home with the children, it is also 100% possible to work full time and have children. I come from a family where my grandmothers/fathers worked 40+ hours a week, and both my parents work 50+ hour weeks. No one felt the need to drop part time and we have a very close tight knit family. I think that female physicians are as likely to work full time as male physicians, and people shouldn't make assumptions on a females motives because of their biological clocks
Click to expand...
Has nothing to do with biological clocks. All the data and research support this. Women are MUCH more likely to work "part-time".
 
houston9 said:
As someone currently applying to medical school, your contemplation of a 5 year break after medical school concerns, confounds, and angers me. Yes, this is your life and you are completely free to make whatever choices you want with it. However, our society needs doctors. We need doctors who are committed to caring for the health of our nation and our world. There are so many people who, if accepted to medical school, would serve our society's needs. Medical school admissions is competitive (duh) and the number of doctors is limited by funding for residencies. You do realize that you are lucky to be accepted to medical school, right? You do realize that you have a responsibility, right? If you aren't committed to serving others through medicine you should not have applied to medical school. You took someone else's spot. You robbed us all of a committed doctor. As a woman, I understand your biological clock and your desire to be a mother, but it really bugs me when mothers take breaks or practice medicine part-time. If we had infinite resources that would be fine. If our country had enough doctors that would be fine. If every qualified applicant were accepted to medical school that would be fine. That is not the world we live in. Doctors are a valuable human resource. We cannot afford for you to take a 5 year mommy break.
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:meh:
 
I shadow an older physician who raised concern about so many women becoming physicians and then leaving to have children. At first, I laughed it off as old people talk, but now......
 
Winged Scapula said:
I was not aware that the OP is a pre-medical student; so in accordance with SDN policy, moving to the PA forum where others can comment if they wish.
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Oh, god no, you moved it to pre-allo? Literally the first post as soon as you moved it into pre-allo:

houston9 said:
As someone currently applying to medical school, your contemplation of a 5 year break after medical school concerns, confounds, and angers me. Yes, this is your life and you are completely free to make whatever choices you want with it. However, our society needs doctors. We need doctors who are committed to caring for the health of our nation and our world. There are so many people who, if accepted to medical school, would serve our society's needs. Medical school admissions is competitive (duh) and the number of doctors is limited by funding for residencies. You do realize that you are lucky to be accepted to medical school, right? You do realize that you have a responsibility, right? If you aren't committed to serving others through medicine you should not have applied to medical school. You took someone else's spot. You robbed us all of a committed doctor. As a woman, I understand your biological clock and your desire to be a mother, but it really bugs me when mothers take breaks or practice medicine part-time. If we had infinite resources that would be fine. If our country had enough doctors that would be fine. If every qualified applicant were accepted to medical school that would be fine. That is not the world we live in. Doctors are a valuable human resource. We cannot afford for you to take a 5 year mommy break.
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Bolded from me for emphasis on the vitriol that some pre-meds spew because they are jelly that they don't have a medical school acceptance in hand.



Winged Scapula said:
They aren't.

Female physicians are more likely to work fewer hours per week, less likely to work full time and less likely to work for as many years as their make counterparts. Plenty of data to support that.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I am quite confident that there are some pre-meds who consider you sexist towards women, WS, for making comments like this.
 
evilbooyaa said:
Oh, god no, you moved it to pre-allo? Literally the first post as soon as you moved it into pre-allo:



Bolded from me for emphasis on the vitriol that some pre-meds spew because they are jelly that they don't have a medical school acceptance in hand.
Click to expand...

I know...but that's the policy.





Agreed. I am quite confident that there are some pre-meds who consider you sexist towards women, WS, for making comments like this.
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Probably. It's not my problem if they can't discriminate between facts and personal beliefs.
 
evilbooyaa said:
Agreed. I am quite confident that there are some pre-meds who consider you sexist towards women, WS, for making comments like this.
Click to expand...

WS is far from a sexist. She's correct. I would argue that female physicians being more likely to work part time is evidence of how much pressure gets put on women to be more responsible for child rearing than men even when they have professional careers. Which sucks.
 
evilbooyaa said:
Bolded from me for emphasis on the vitriol that some pre-meds spew because they are jelly that they don't have a medical school acceptance in hand.
Click to expand...

Well I intend to have the same passion if accepted to medical school. If I'm not as committed to medicine in a few years when I'm practicing medicine as I expect this woman to be I'll let you know so you can call me a hypocrite.
 
houston9 said:
Well I intend to have the same passion if accepted to medical school. If I'm not as committed to medicine in a few years when I'm practicing medicine as I expect this woman to be I'll let you know so you can call me a hypocrite.
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I'm not saying your passion is facetious or that your post makes you a hypocrite in anyway. I'm just saying for you to personally attack somebody asking for advice (originally not in pre-allo) is something that seems to be quite common in this forum amongst some of the hopeful (and possibly bitter if they're re-applying) pre-meds, which is the main reason that I don't view/post in this forum. The only reason I'm doing so now is because I keep getting alerts, but I originally replied to this in a different forum.
 
evilbooyaa said:
I'm not saying your passion is facetious or that your post makes you a hypocrite in anyway. I'm just saying for you to personally attack somebody asking for advice (originally not in pre-allo) is something that seems to be quite common in this forum amongst some of the hopeful (and possibly bitter if they're re-applying) pre-meds, which is the main reason that I don't view/post in this forum. The only reason I'm doing so now is because I keep getting alerts, but I originally replied to this in a different forum.
Click to expand...
OP asked for "specific thoughts" not just advice. I gave her my specific thoughts. I told her she is free to do what she wants with her life but should consider the consequences of those choices on other people in our country. I am not jelly I don't have a med school acceptance; if I don't get in anywhere I intend to go into public health. My public health interests inform my concern about this mommy break trend, not a desire to personally attack someone I do not even know.
 
houston9 said:
OP asked for "specific thoughts" not just advice. I gave her my specific thoughts. I told her she is free to do what she wants with her life but should consider the consequences of those choices on other people in our country. I am not jelly I don't have a med school acceptance; if I don't get in anywhere I intend to go into public health. My public health interests inform my concern about this mommy break trend, not a desire to personally attack someone I do not even know.
Click to expand...
Oh please, stop acting like becoming a physician makes you a great martyr by giving up your life for others in need. Sure we have a physician shortage in this country, but unless the OP was planning on/ends up in an underserved area as a PCP it isn't like they are depriving the in need country of a direly needed physician. The physician shortage problem is caused by so many different factors that a female physician missing 5 years of practicing to have a family isn't going to matter. The issue is much more localized to the OP having issues with gaining residency after, falling behind in medical knowledge, getting a job, and dealing with loan interest.
 
OP, I think this is not a good idea for your career. I don't knock you for wanting to "have it all."

Are you married? Or do you know the man you're going to have these kids with? Maybe he would want to stay home with your kids while you work? There are plenty of ways to creatively care for your future family.

Admittedly, this thread is disturbing me a bit. I am taking this year "off" - - it's my child's first year of life. I fully intend to practice full-time while my husband stays home with our son. But now I'm wondering if it's going to "look bad" that I placed such a premium on this first year of bonding while I apply to school.

Congratulations on your acceptance and your lack of debt. That's a really unique opportunity.
 
lmn said:
Oh please, stop acting like becoming a physician makes you a great martyr by giving up your life for others in need. Sure we have a physician shortage in this country, but unless the OP was planning on/ends up in an underserved area as a PCP it isn't like they are depriving the in need country of a direly needed physician. The physician shortage problem is caused by so many different factors that a female physician missing 5 years of practicing to have a family isn't going to matter. The issue is much more localized to the OP having issues with gaining residency after, falling behind in medical knowledge, getting a job, and dealing with loan interest.
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True. OP taking 5 years off after med school graduation just means that what would have been her slot in residency will go to someone else. We'll still have the same number of licensed physicians in America, but OP won't be one of them.
 
houston9 said:
OP asked for "specific thoughts" not just advice. I gave her my specific thoughts. I told her she is free to do what she wants with her life but should consider the consequences of those choices on other people in our country. I am not jelly I don't have a med school acceptance; if I don't get in anywhere I intend to go into public health. My public health interests inform my concern about this mommy break trend, not a desire to personally attack someone I do not even know.
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Most medical students aren't going to become PCPs in underserved rural areas (which is where the 'other people in our country' are most lacking for care). The 'consequences' of her choices are not significant. If she doesn't do a residency, all it means for the general public is that one extra IMG/FMG will get a residency spot. At the end of the day, the # of residency-trained doctors will be the same whether she does a residency or stays at home post medical school.
 
evilbooyaa said:
Most medical students aren't going to become PCPs in underserved rural areas (which is where the 'other people in our country' are most lacking for care). The 'consequences' of her choices are not significant. If she doesn't do a residency, all it means for the general public is that one extra IMG/FMG will get a residency spot. At the end of the day, the # of residency-trained doctors will be the same whether she does a residency or stays at home post medical school.
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^This. I don't think you (@houston9) are really understanding how things work past getting into med school. There is a bottleneck in the number of residency slots available, not the number of medical students/IMGs/FMGs to fill those residencies, the OP not taking one of those slots right away just means someone else gets the spot and will become the fully licensed physician. OP is the only one who really loses in that situation.
 
houston9 said:
OP asked for "specific thoughts" not just advice. I gave her my specific thoughts. I told her she is free to do what she wants with her life but should consider the consequences of those choices on other people in our country. I am not jelly I don't have a med school acceptance; if I don't get in anywhere I intend to go into public health. My public health interests inform my concern about this mommy break trend, not a desire to personally attack someone I do not even know.
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No, your public health "interest" is in your attempt to maneuver yourself into matriculation into medical school. At least be honest.
 
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lmn said:
^This. I don't think you (@houston9) are really understanding how things work past getting into med school. There is a bottleneck in the number of residency slots available, not the number of medical students/IMGs/FMGs to fill those residencies, the OP not taking one of those slots right away just means someone else gets the spot and will become the fully licensed physician. OP is the only one who really loses in that situation.
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Well, that person she took a medical school seat from just to become a stay at home mother that never practiced also loses out. There was a thread by a woman who did basically exactly what the op is planning to do in the residency forum s couple weeks back. General consensus was that she probably wouldn't even be able to land a FM spot in Eastern Montana. Sad that some other student could have fulfilled their dreams on what she threw away.
 
Winged Scapula said:
The above is a very contentious thought but its a real concern: as nearly 50% of some medical schools being comprised of women, are we facing a generation of physicians who work part time or leave medicine after a few years? I can't help but think that is going to create havoc for our society.
Click to expand...

So why doesn't society wake up and do something about it! Great (and affordable) child care is a priority for many countries -- most of northern Europe and Australia in particular -- as is parental leave for fathers, both of which free up more productive time for women to contribute their talents to society while knowing their children are being well cared for.

Certainly, on a physician's salary, good childcare will be affordable for you, whether that means a private nanny, high quality daycare, in-home care, or stay-at-home spouse.
But a physician's career is not one that can be half-a$$ed, any more than raising children can.
 
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DermViser said:
No, your public health "interest" is in your attempt to maneuver yourself into matriculation into medical school. At least be honest.
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I'll give you the same offer I made earlier: if I'm not as passionate and committed to these interests as a physician as I am now you can call me a hypocrite then.
 
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