5 Years Out Southeast Academic Anesthesiologist - Ask me Anything (AMA)

Started by Zekchar
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Get help with your application

Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.

Browse articles Compare schools My application plan Read Interview Feedback
Practice for interviews Ask an Advisor
Z

Zekchar

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Me: 5 Years out of Residency, Mid/Late 30’s
Training: California native, Residency + OB Fellowship in Cali, Moved to SE due to wife’s family
US Region: Southeast
My Job: Tertiary Academic Medical Center.
  • Cases include everything except Pediatric and Cardiothoracic
  • OB 2x / week
  • 5 weeks vacation
  • 1 in 30 In House Call
  • 1 in 5 “late” call until 5-7pm
  • Avg hours worked per week = 48 + up to 3 additional hours academic meeting /committees etc
  • Non-call days 6:30am-3pm
  • Typically 1:2 resident/CRNA supervision, up to 1:4 CRNA supervision after 4pm on late call days
  • Admin/Research days allotted 1day every 3 weeks
  • Mild pressures to publish, do studies, and case reports
  • Salary after bonuses and incentives : 400K
  • 401A, 403B, 457 retirement plans and full benefits
I found these threads very useful to me during residency. No need to be shy in your questions.
Ask me Anything
 
Last edited:
naijacardriodoc said:
Do you have any advice for students who want to match but have average stats?
Does where you match for anesthesiology residency matter for job placement?
Click to expand...

Be an all around awesome person, apply broadly. You'll get in somewhere.


Residency location can affect future geography, especially for initial job, but not for all jobs. You'll just have to network more.


I'd be leery of some residency-recommended jobs though, they might not be all that great.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
400k salary after benefits and bonuses sounds great for an academic gig. (Your total package is around 450k I assume?) Is that a typical offer for an academic job in SE? Did you look into pp gigs, and if so, what kind of package were they offering and what was the set up like in terms of hours/calls/supervision/case mix for the pay?

Thanks in advance.
 
naijacardriodoc said:
Do you have any advice for students who want to match but have average stats?
Does where you match for anesthesiology residency matter for job placement?
Click to expand...

Advice? - Don't be awkward, racist, sexist, or antisocial. Some residency candidate comes to interviews and can't hold a conversation and/or say some non-pc things during luncheons. Automatic disqualifier.

Some "ivory tower" places want employees to be from "ivory tower" residencies/fellowships. I think that's more of a NY/Boston thing though. At the same time, most assume that where you are from and did residency is where you want to be afterwards. Some slight preference is then given to equally qualified candidates whereby one is from nearby and the other is distant.
 
hununuh said:
400k salary after benefits and bonuses sounds great for an academic gig. (Your total package is around 450k I assume?) Is that a typical offer for an academic job in SE? Did you look into pp gigs, and if so, what kind of package were they offering and what was the set up like in terms of hours/calls/supervision/case mix for the pay?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Total package depending on how benefits are calculated is officially priced ~475. Not positive about the rest of the SE since my wife's family limits me to a particular city. PP gigs that my residents are getting pay 450-525K but with significantly increased call burden, post call workdays, and living in less than desirable locations. PP coverage model is consistently 1:4 at all times with occasional 1:5 overlap. That's a personal decision, however, and what may seem like the boonies for some, may be heaven for others.
 
Zekchar said:
Advice? - Don't be awkward, racist, sexist, or antisocial. Some residency candidate comes to interviews and can't hold a conversation and/or say some non-pc things during luncheons. Automatic disqualifier.
Click to expand...


examples of things said? i've actually never met anyone openly racist or sexist; other than among friends where such things are known and taken to be jokes and nothing more. i find it hard to believe - especially given current social and political tensions - that anyone can progress as far as residency interviews having openly "non-pc" opinions. maybe you are just extra-sensitive.
 
This thread is exactly why I encourage those with good Step scores to Match at a top Residency and do a fellowship. Why kill yourself in PP when you can make $400K plus good benefits in a university setting? PP needs to really pay up to leave the University so that number is $550-$600K when you factor in the extra call burden, higher supervision ratio and additional stress.

Do the Fellowship and leave the door open.
 
BLADEMDA said:
This thread is exactly why I encourage those with good Step scores to Match at a top Residency and do a fellowship. Why kill yourself in PP when you can make $400K plus good benefits in a university setting? PP needs to really pay up to leave the University so that number is $550-$600K when you factor in the extra call burden, higher supervision ratio and additional stress.

Do the Fellowship and leave the door open.
Click to expand...

Exactly. My cardiac fellowship train friend is also at southeast (not Florida) and he is in mid 300s salary plus some overtime. Close to 380k. PLUS STATE benefits. Not a lot of calls

He looked at amc place 450k-475k and very little benefits and motr
Calls. Than started doing the math

that $380k acadeMic salary plus benefits sounded better and he’s staying in academic.
 
BLADEMDA said:
This thread is exactly why I encourage those with good Step scores to Match at a top Residency and do a fellowship. Why kill yourself in PP when you can make $400K plus good benefits in a university setting? PP needs to really pay up to leave the University so that number is $550-$600K when you factor in the extra call burden, higher supervision ratio and additional stress.

Do the Fellowship and leave the door open.
Click to expand...

i agree with the doing a fellowship advice and actually regret not having done one myself, but some of us don't want and have never wanted to work in an academic setting; the desire to teach and/or publish simply isn't there; and let's face it - quite a few academic attendings SHOULDN'T be teaching.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Why do you say you need a fellowship to work in academics?

Academic jobs are like retirement for private practice guys after 20 years.
 
sevoflurane said:
I would go nutz with 5 weeks off.
Click to expand...

The thing is it’s not 5 weeks off. It’s closer to 8 or 9 weeks off. 25 “Official” annual days off

3 “free additional days” (yes that was built in the standard state employee academic job I had)

plus 12 paid sick days

PLUS 10 days cme

plus holidays (comped) if working on those holidays.

you are talking close to 50 days off if u take all the days off. And yes. Many academic docs take at least 7-8 sick days off. At minimum. Dental/doctors/kids appointments.

just do the math.
 
anbuitachi said:
How big is the location???
Also what is 401A? Is the max limited by 403b?
Click to expand...
401a are offered by govt state entities maninly. On a 300k salary. Employee contribution roughly 16k. Employer contribution roughly 25k. (The limits change yearly based on irs rules) (alternative for state pension)

u contribute to 403b ($19k pretax)

u contribution to 457b ($19k pretax)

so really u can shield $19k plus $19k pretax plus shield another $16k (401a) pretax. That’s 54k pretax (employee). Plus the employer is contributing $25k roughly. So close to $80k being stashed to ur retirement account annually. U can build a nice nest egg in academics at state facilities.

plus many state facilities let ur kids go to state universities for free tuition. That’s another perk.
 
Zekchar said:
Me: 5 Years out of Residency, Mid/Late 30’s
Training: California native, Residency + OB Fellowship in Cali, Moved to SE due to wife’s family
US Region: Southeast
My Job: Tertiary Academic Medical Center.
  • Cases include everything except Pediatric and Cardiothoracic
  • OB 2x / week
  • 5 weeks vacation
  • 1 in 30 In House Call
  • 1 in 5 “late” call until 5-7pm
  • Avg hours worked per week = 48 + up to 3 additional hours academic meeting /committees etc
  • Non-call days 6:30am-3pm
  • Typically 1:2 resident/CRNA supervision, up to 1:4 CRNA supervision after 4pm on late call days
  • Admin/Research days allotted 1day every 3 weeks
  • Mild pressures to publish, do studies, and case reports
  • Salary after bonuses and incentives : 400K
  • 401A, 403B, 457 retirement plans and full benefits
I found these threads very useful to me during residency. No need to be shy in your questions.
Ask me Anything
Click to expand...

is there any OB specific call that you have to take on top of your regular in-house call and late days?
 
Zekchar said:
Me: 5 Years out of Residency, Mid/Late 30’s
Training: California native, Residency + OB Fellowship in Cali, Moved to SE due to wife’s family
US Region: Southeast
My Job: Tertiary Academic Medical Center.
  • Cases include everything except Pediatric and Cardiothoracic
  • OB 2x / week
  • 5 weeks vacation
  • 1 in 30 In House Call
  • 1 in 5 “late” call until 5-7pm
  • Avg hours worked per week = 48 + up to 3 additional hours academic meeting /committees etc
  • Non-call days 6:30am-3pm
  • Typically 1:2 resident/CRNA supervision, up to 1:4 CRNA supervision after 4pm on late call days
  • Admin/Research days allotted 1day every 3 weeks
  • Mild pressures to publish, do studies, and case reports
  • Salary after bonuses and incentives : 400K
  • 401A, 403B, 457 retirement plans and full benefits
I found these threads very useful to me during residency. No need to be shy in your questions.
Ask me Anything
Click to expand...
Jc, at your institution do you have non-core OB faculty taking OB call?
 
Wow - you have a good deal. I have many questions (I'm also in academia)...

Do you get OT after 3pm and how much per hour?
Any incentives given if you publish anything?
How much roughly does your institution put into 401/403/457?
What's an extra day worth / what's an in house call night worth?
How are your other perks - like professional fund, travel fund, parking, etc?
Do you get any bump in pay for having done a fellowship?
Any yearly bump for time of service?
If you have a lower level director spot (e.g. medical director of PACU, etc) do you get more?
Do you get forced to do much for free?
 
kidthor said:
Wow - you have a good deal. I have many questions (I'm also in academia)...

Do you get OT after 3pm and how much per hour?
Any incentives given if you publish anything?
How much roughly does your institution put into 401/403/457?
What's an extra day worth / what's an in house call night worth?
How are your other perks - like professional fund, travel fund, parking, etc?
Do you get any bump in pay for having done a fellowship?
Any yearly bump for time of service?
If you have a lower level director spot (e.g. medical director of PACU, etc) do you get more?
Do you get forced to do much for free?
Click to expand...
The typical institution match for 401a cannot EXCEED Yearly IRS 401a limits(56k for 2019 tax years) (these limits are SEPERATE FROM 401K/403b/457b combined limits)

stAte govt generally do not match 403b or 457b IF THEY offer 401a matching.

it’s pretty simple. Just google the state institution benefits. Just google state benefits as employees salaries are public knowledge.

many of the state institution offer very similar 401a matching generally 7-10% of salary but employee has to contribute MANDATORY 401a contribution themselves. It’s a SET PERCENTAGE.

If this information is over ur head. Google searches can explain how 401a works.

this is just a one page pdf of Iowa


here is Georgia benefits more detailed

 
leaverus said:
i agree with the doing a fellowship advice and actually regret not having done one myself, but some of us don't want and have never wanted to work in an academic setting; the desire to teach and/or publish simply isn't there; and let's face it - quite a few academic attendings SHOULDN'T be teaching.
Click to expand...
truth
 
Mikkel said:
Why do you say you need a fellowship to work in academics?

Academic jobs are like retirement for private practice guys after 20 years.
Click to expand...
leverage. sure academic jobs are like retirement but when the chopping block occurs they're keeping the fellowship trained people first.
 
aneftp said:
Exactly. My cardiac fellowship train friend is also at southeast (not Florida) and he is in mid 300s salary plus some overtime. Close to 380k. PLUS STATE benefits. Not a lot of calls

He looked at amc place 450k-475k and very little benefits and motr
Calls. Than started doing the math

that $380k acadeMic salary plus benefits sounded better and he’s staying in academic.
Click to expand...
isnt mid 300s really low for a cardiac job?
 
Status Sciaticus said:
isnt mid 300s really low for a cardiac job?
Click to expand...
Again. U aren’t looking at total compensation package plus total hours and calls worked.

people get hung up on a big number an AMC throws at u.

look at entire picture.

on paper mid 300s is low for cardiac job. But this is also academics.

it’s basically beeper call for one week every 5-6 weeks. No ob calls.
Plus the benefits. (25k thrown in 401a)

working reasonable 45

remember what I posted above. 25 annual days off. Plus 12 sick days. Plus 3 free days. Plus 10 cme days. Plus comp time for holidays worked (remember there are most state holidays than there are private practice holidays (Columbus Day/mlk day/veterans days off just to name 3). That’s close to 50 days off

or there is amc cardiac job I can show u with 9-10 weeks off making 500k (yes 500k). Sounds great. Except u are basically on call q4/5. 24 hours calls. No retirement. No nada extra. Working 65 hours a week. (Previous private before buyout made 1 million each by the way )

So what sounds better?
 
  • Like
Reactions: dhb
aneftp said:
Again. U aren’t looking at total compensation package plus total hours and calls worked.

people get hung up on a big number an AMC throws at u.

look at entire picture.

on paper mid 300s is low for cardiac job. But this is also academics.

it’s basically beeper call for one week every 5-6 weeks. No ob calls.
Plus the benefits. (25k thrown in 401a)

working reasonable 45

remember what I posted above. 25 annual days off. Plus 12 sick days. Plus 3 free days. Plus 10 cme days. Plus comp time for holidays worked (remember there are most state holidays than there are private practice holidays (Columbus Day/mlk day/veterans days off just to name 3). That’s close to 50 days off

or there is amc cardiac job I can show u with 9-10 weeks off making 500k (yes 500k). Sounds great. Except u are basically on call q4/5. 24 hours calls. No retirement. No nada extra. Working 65 hours a week. (Previous private before buyout made 1 million each by the way )

So what sounds better?
Click to expand...

with a direct comparison like that, the choice is obvious. but more generally speaking, why are young guys fresh out of training so reluctant to work hard (ie take little calls as possible, want lots of vacation, etc etc). for me, the math is simple - if i can find a job where the more i work the more i make, i'd gladly run myself into the ground to make bank now and then coast during the latter part of my career. not fellowship trained, but for $500-600k, q4-5 call, 65hr/wk, and anything more than 6wks vacation to me would be easy money.
 
Wow, for the southeast that is easily 150K total more than the average offer I saw for my friends as a generalist (and probably 100K more than subs) And much less work.

This poster’s job is a diamond in the rough. Awesome he/she found it, but I’m not sure it is typical of the average academic package...
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
aneftp said:
The thing is it’s not 5 weeks off. It’s closer to 8 or 9 weeks off. 25 “Official” annual days off

3 “free additional days” (yes that was built in the standard state employee academic job I had)

plus 12 paid sick days

PLUS 10 days cme

plus holidays (comped) if working on those holidays.

you are talking close to 50 days off if u take all the days off. And yes. Many academic docs take at least 7-8 sick days off. At minimum. Dental/doctors/kids appointments.

just do the math.
Click to expand...

What state/institution is this in ?
 
leaverus said:
with a direct comparison like that, the choice is obvious. but more generally speaking, why are young guys fresh out of training so reluctant to work hard (ie take little calls as possible, want lots of vacation, etc etc). for me, the math is simple - if i can find a job where the more i work the more i make, i'd gladly run myself into the ground to make bank now and then coast during the latter part of my career. not fellowship trained, but for $500-600k, q4-5 call, 65hr/wk, and anything more than 6wks vacation to me would be easy money.
Click to expand...

because the reality of it is if u payor mix is even average. Say 40% private. Working 65 hours a week with 6 weeks off and q4/5 call. U should be clearing 800k.

My friend out west just cleared 825k working like that. No amc to take off the top Worked like a dog. He’s old. 63. He’s done. He said it was his last year. (Divorce age 48 wife kids took money...u know the old story). So that’s why he was working hard.

but the bottom line is u should be clearing 700-800k if u are working 65 hours a week q4/5 calls. The former usap guys used to clear that on the east coast. (My network of friends is huge). They used to clear 700-800k plus. Now after their buyout. They can clear 500-600k (the former partners)

those guys aren’t idiots. They don’t work as much as they used to now and are ok with making in the low 400s NOT TAKING calls q4/5. They rather work 45-50 hours less calls They ain’t gonna to kill themselves to make in the 500s cause they know they used to make in the 700s working 65 hours.

it’s called perspective.
 
POW16 said:
What state/institution is this in ?
Click to expand...
All over the USA man. Not just one state institution. Just do simple google searches. It’s not a secret. Remember state places have public databases as well.

Midwest. East coast. Southeast. West coast. U name it. It’s there.
 
leaverus said:
examples of things said? i've actually never met anyone openly racist or sexist; other than among friends where such things are known and taken to be jokes and nothing more. i find it hard to believe - especially given current social and political tensions - that anyone can progress as far as residency interviews having openly "non-pc" opinions. maybe you are just extra-sensitive.
Click to expand...

Maybe i am extra sensitive. But also maybe there exists a column that during interview season gets filled by some interview candidates who made "special" remarks and irrespective of their scores and letters are considered an automatic "no." In short, you'd be surprised what leaks out every now and then.
 
anbuitachi said:
How big is the location???
Also what is 401A? Is the max limited by 403b?
Click to expand...

It is capped as a percentile of earnings. In my case:
* $29K/year is contributed by the institution to my 401A (fully vested after 6 years)
* 19K/year I contribute tax-deferred to the 403B (100% equities into Vanguard S&P 500 Index fund)
* 19K/year I contribute tax-deferred to the 457 plan (100% equities into Vanguard S&P 500 Index fund)
 
aneftp said:
The thing is it’s not 5 weeks off. It’s closer to 8 or 9 weeks off. 25 “Official” annual days off

3 “free additional days” (yes that was built in the standard state employee academic job I had)

plus 12 paid sick days

PLUS 10 days cme

plus holidays (comped) if working on those holidays.

you are talking close to 50 days off if u take all the days off. And yes. Many academic docs take at least 7-8 sick days off. At minimum. Dental/doctors/kids appointments.

just do the math.
Click to expand...

* 22 days vacation
* 13 sick days/year
* 10 meeting/professional days/year
* state holidays
 
kidthor said:
Wow - you have a good deal. I have many questions (I'm also in academia)...

Do you get OT after 3pm and how much per hour?
Any incentives given if you publish anything?
How much roughly does your institution put into 401/403/457?
What's an extra day worth / what's an in house call night worth?
How are your other perks - like professional fund, travel fund, parking, etc?
Do you get any bump in pay for having done a fellowship?
Any yearly bump for time of service?
If you have a lower level director spot (e.g. medical director of PACU, etc) do you get more?
Do you get forced to do much for free?
Click to expand...

- After 5pm = $150/hr
- Minor publishing / academic work incentive pay
- 401-29k, 403 - can self max at 19k, 457 - can self max at 19k
- incentive pay for fri/say/sun IHC - taken on voluntary basis 1.5k/3k/2k pay respectively, remained of weekday IHC assigned if not volunteered for
- 6K CME professional fund
- small 10k bump pay for fellowship
- 25k bump in pay going from assistant to associate professor
- low level directors get small bump in pay or an extra admin time thrown in - mostly have to be self motivated and desire it
- "free" work is generally work aimed at being promoted to secure a 25k pay bump 6-7 years after starting (high floor, low ceiling)
 
leaverus said:
with a direct comparison like that, the choice is obvious. but more generally speaking, why are young guys fresh out of training so reluctant to work hard (ie take little calls as possible, want lots of vacation, etc etc). for me, the math is simple - if i can find a job where the more i work the more i make, i'd gladly run myself into the ground to make bank now and then coast during the latter part of my career. not fellowship trained, but for $500-600k, q4-5 call, 65hr/wk, and anything more than 6wks vacation to me would be easy money.
Click to expand...

This is a personal decision. My lifestyle wouldn't drastically change going from $400k to $500k-$600k but my work-life balance certainly would. I'd rather spend more time with my wife and kids. You only live once and you've been sold a lie if you think you break your body, mind, and spirit while you're young in the hopes of "living it up" when you're old ... assuming your health stays intact. I'd rather enjoy the whole journey along the way rather than merely look back fondly once at the finish line.
 
Zekchar said:
* 22 days vacation
* 13 sick days/year
* 10 meeting/professional days/year
* state holidays
Click to expand...
Yup. Most state institutions offer same benefits.

that’s why I keep posting to ur thread. It’s not a secret. People don’t need to go hunting for a mythical academic job like urs. They are a dime a dozen With state employees institution.

Now what does matter is clinical time (workers bees) vs more senior faculty who chill with 2 non clinical days a week. That’s where the difference lies. U have to scope out each state institution if they got the old guards who do very little work and make the young new faculty do all the scout work. The old faculty take all the chill ca-3. And leave new faculty ca-1 with 2 months clinical training. Those are subtle things u can find out when u intereview at those state institutions.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
crash2500 said:
Then why are we counting them in the total vacation days
Click to expand...

Because when I took 12 weeks of FMLA for the birth of my child, i had enough "sick days" accumulated to get 3 months of paid leave ... not quite vacation but totally worth it.
 
If switching academic jobs, what is the suggested time to notify your current employer that you are leaving?
 
Dawkter said:
If switching academic jobs, what is the suggested time to notify your current employer that you are leaving?
Click to expand...

I have been at the same place since graduating fellowship. With that being said, its a small world and being obnoxious and abruptly leaving may come back to haunt you. Academia is not private practice, so chances are it'll be at your convenience or once a block schedule of call has been completed. That way the scheduler will not factor your presence when making future calls.
 
So in academia, if you dont focus on research, your starting pay is what you'll make forever except for a 50k increase through minor administrative leadership roles/bump to associate prof?

What would a major promotion look like and how hard is that to achieve without research? Say the residency director - is that something you gun at for 20 years with lots of extra work and you get a 100k bonus? Or would it be more like 13 years and a 200k bonus? Or do they just give you more cush academic days and reduce your workload/stress instead?

Is the major source of extra revenue just taking extra call and weekend work instead of striving for the above?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
Resident or academic anesthesiologist question
Replies
26
Views
2K
NumTacos
NumTacos
coffeebythelake
"Nurse anesthesiologist" 🤡
Replies
25
Views
3K
aneftp
A
cittykat
Another anesthesiologist in the news
Replies
2
Views
1K
cittykat
cittykat
2
Why do people always ask me
Replies
44
Views
6K
CopaceticOne
CopaceticOne
Dawkter
5 Day Work Week?
2 3
Replies
116
Views
9K
Twiggidy
Twiggidy