$50M in OB malpractice suit

[anbuitachi]

Looks like C section rates aren't going down any time soon

Mother of brain-damaged boy wins $50M in malpractice suit

A jury has awarded $101 million to the mother of a severely brain-damaged boy who sued a Chicago-area hospital for medical malpractice, but the amount will be cut to $50 million due to an agreement between the parties.

apnews.com

" A jury awarded $101 million to the mother of a severely brain-damaged boy who sued a Chicago-area hospital for medical malpractice, but an agreement between the parties cut the amount to $50 million, a lawyer said Tuesday. "

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[AMEHigh]

Yeah this definitely seems like the nurses fault as it says in the complaint. The delay of starting the BPP and then the delay of notifying anyone about a 4/8 on BPP I agree is unacceptable. The BPP also didn't need to last for more than 30 minutes like it did. Extending to 71 minutes definitely is not standard of care. Lifelong care is expensive.

 

[coffeebythelake]

Yeah this definitely seems like the nurses fault as it says in the complaint. The delay of starting the BPP and then the delay of notifying anyone about a 4/8 on BPP I agree is unacceptable. The BPP also didn't need to last for more than 30 minutes like it did. Extending to 71 minutes definitely is not standard of care. Lifelong care is expensive.

Hospital administrators take note. Quality and education of your staff matters.

 

[nimbus]

Mom will soon be the world’s wealthiest woman named Tequila.

 

[AMEHigh]

Hospital administrators take note. Quality and education of your staff matters.

Yes very good point.
This case has nothing to do with the rate of c-sections and more to do with nurses and other medical staff being educated enough and following standard of care.

 

[deleted162650]

Mom will soon be the world’s wealthiest woman named Tequila.

I dunno. What’s Tila worth?

 

[caligas]

Not 50 mil.

Tila Tequila Net Worth

What is Tila Tequila's net worth?

www.google.com

 

[pgg]

Lifelong care is expensive.

It's not $50M expensive, much less the $101M the jury tried to award.

$50 million would provide better than $150,000 per month until the earth is consumed by the sun inflating into a red giant. The jury award was excessive by an order of magnitude, if the purpose was to cover lifelong care.

 

[dchz]

It's not $50M expensive, much less the $101M the jury tried to award.

$50 million would provide better than $150,000 per month until the earth is consumed by the sun inflating into a red giant. The jury award was excessive by an order of magnitude, if the purpose was to cover lifelong care.

#HeDidTheMath

 

[AMEHigh]

It's not $50M expensive, much less the $101M the jury tried to award.

$50 million would provide better than $150,000 per month until the earth is consumed by the sun inflating into a red giant. The jury award was excessive by an order of magnitude, if the purpose was to cover lifelong care.

I don’t have time to get out a calculator, but obviously some of the award is for emotional damage.

But you also have to think of the things outside of just pure care. I know many many parents of special needs kids who really can’t work anymore because they have to schedule so many doctors and therapy appointments and quit their job. This includes people who are lawyers, doctors, so high earners. So that is a lot of lost income and retirement money.

Might need to move if your home isn’t able to be adapted to special needs if you’re renting. Need a new car because you need one that accommodates a wheelchair, etc.

There are a lot of costs that add up.
So I’m not going to argue that 50 million is absolutely necessary, but I also don’t think you can just say 2,000 a month for life is sufficient either, especially when it seems this case was a pretty clear deviation from standard of care.

 

[deleted171991]

And this is why our malpractice system is F-ed up.

I understand that certain things are priceless, as in one cannot put a price on them (not that they are worth everything). And I understand the need to punish big bad corporations when they misbehave. But still it's not OK to make anybody pay $101M for ONE mistake that did not result in $101M of economic damages, not by far, even if assuming 80 years of life expectancy. And, I'm sorry, but the emotional losses of an average wage earner cannot be estimated to be tens of millions. Same goes for "pain and suffering".

The malpractice lottery is a caricature of justice and the MAIN reason why ALL of us have to deal with outrageous medical costs. ALL of us will be paying for this joke. I wonder what the average IQ of that jury was.

The needs of the many should outweigh the needs of the few, or the one, or we will never have even basic healthcare for all (among many others). This malCRAPtice system needs to be fixed.

 

[AMEHigh]

And this is why our malpractice system is F-ed up.

I understand that certain things are priceless, as in one cannot put a price on them (not that they are worth everything). And I understand the need to punish big bad corporations when they misbehave. But still it's not OK to make anybody pay $101M for ONE mistake that did not result in $101M of economic damages, not by far, even if assuming 80 years of life expectancy. And, I'm sorry, but the emotional losses of an average wage earner cannot be estimated to be tens of millions. Same goes for "pain and suffering".

The malpractice lottery is a caricature of justice and the MAIN reason why ALL of us have to deal with outrageous medical costs. ALL of us will be paying for this joke. I wonder what the average IQ of that jury was.

The needs of the many should outweigh the needs of the few, or the one, or we will never have even basic healthcare for all (among many others). This malCRAPtice system needs to be fixed.

I know the NHS in the UK uses some kind of formula to determine award damages, so it’s not as arbitrary. The awards are usually paid out per year if it’s a case of someone who needs lifelong care. They still do have patients who get rewards in the millions of pounds. I certainly don’t think "Medicare for all" is the solution to all of our healthcare problems but certainly a universal solution will help with this as well when one system is invested in these malpractice cases.

Does anyone know how medical malpractice cases are handled through the VA? Are those awards generally less?

Do you have a source re: your comment that malpractice is the main reason for high health care costs in this country? I’d love to read more. Thanks!

 

[MoMoGesiologist]

Does anyone know how medical malpractice cases are handled through the VA? Are those awards generally less?

I don’t think veterans sue. Not sure if it’s because they can’t or it’s just not in their personality. They accept whatever garbage the VA throws their way. Most grateful pts too

 

[chocomorsel]

It’s difficult to understand why a physician would defend this absurd award. I am with @FFP as usual on this one.
@AMEHigh are you a physician? You think this is just?

 

[AMEHigh]

It’s difficult to understand why a physician would defend this absurd award. I am with @FFP as usual on this one.
@AMEHigh are you a physician? You think this is just?

Yes I’m a physician.
I didn’t say that 50 million was necessary. Just that after reading the case details it seems like the people taking care of the patient didn’t follow the standard of care which resulted in significant damage, therefore I think it was fair to find the hospital at fault. I’m not a lawyer, but the main error and case seemed to be centered around the nurse and her not following standard of care and not alerting a physician (the radiologist or ob) in a timely manner. A BPP shouldn’t last for 71 minutes, especially if there is no movement.

I honestly don’t know enough about the law to understand the details, but I don’t think this case specifically was to "stick it to the doctors." Medical professionals make mistakes that cost people their lives, therefore in this case I absolutely think it’s fair that they should receive compensation that also includes some "emotional damage." I honestly don’t know what that number should be, but like I said above it seems like the NHS has a system in place where things are more standardized for malpractice cases, which I think is a good idea.

 

[AMEHigh]

I don’t think veterans sue. Not sure if it’s because they can’t or it’s just not in their personality. They accept whatever garbage the VA throws their way. Most grateful pts too

I’m 99.9% sure that is untrue. There are def medical malpractice cases through the VA. I’d love to read more about the process. I know there was a bill I believe introduced in the senate last year that wanted the VA to also be responsible for medical professionals who were contractors and not VA employees, but it seems it died in Congress.

 

[chocomorsel]

Yes I’m a physician.
I didn’t say that 50 million was necessary. Just that after reading the case details it seems like the people taking care of the patient didn’t follow the standard of care which resulted in significant damage, therefore I think it was fair to find the hospital at fault. I’m not a lawyer, but the main error and case seemed to be centered around the nurse and her not following standard of care and not alerting a physician (the radiologist or ob) in a timely manner. A BPP shouldn’t last for 71 minutes, especially if there is no movement.

I honestly don’t know enough about the law to understand the details, but I don’t think this case specifically was to "stick it to the doctors." Medical professionals make mistakes that cost people their lives, therefore in this case I absolutely think it’s fair that they should receive compensation that also includes some "emotional damage." I honestly don’t know what that number should be, but like I said above it seems like the NHS has a system in place where things are more standardized for malpractice cases, which I think is a good idea.

Ok. That’s fair. People are at fault, yeah, but the award number itself is absurd.

 

[MoMoGesiologist]

Ok. That’s fair. People are at fault, yeah, but the award number itself is absurd.

I bet if that baby was a bank being bailed out you wouldn’t feel that way...

 

[deleted171991]

I bet if that baby was a bank being bailed out you wouldn’t feel that way...

Not bailing out a bank can easily cause hundreds of millions in economic damages. That's a much easier calculation.

The reason this country should NOT have national healthcare insurance is exactly the fact that people can't separate their emotions from business. One can't have socialized medicine without "death squads". The line will have to be drawn somewhere, and by businesspeople not juries.

 

[chocomorsel]

T

I bet if that baby was a bank being bailed out you wouldn’t feel that way...

That the number is absurd? That people are at fault? Why the hell not?

 

[anonperson]

Looks like C section rates aren't going down any time soon

Mother of brain-damaged boy wins $50M in malpractice suit

A jury has awarded $101 million to the mother of a severely brain-damaged boy who sued a Chicago-area hospital for medical malpractice, but the amount will be cut to $50 million due to an agreement between the parties.

apnews.com

" A jury awarded $101 million to the mother of a severely brain-damaged boy who sued a Chicago-area hospital for medical malpractice, but an agreement between the parties cut the amount to $50 million, a lawyer said Tuesday. "

Geez.

This is why medical practice in this country is insane. This is a lotto ticket.

I don't have all the facts but judgements like this make me physically ill.

Every OB patient is basically a ticking timebomb. And don't get me started on the patients who roll in with no prenatal care but scream lawyer the second things don't go their way.

Honestly, just close all labor and deliveries and let patients deliver at home. Let them sue themselves.

 

[deleted171991]

Geez.

This is why medical practice in this country is insane. This is a lotto ticket.

I don't have all the facts but judgements like this make me physically ill.

Every OB patient is basically a ticking timebomb. And don't get me started on the patients who roll in with no prenatal care but scream lawyer the second things don't go their way.

Honestly, just close all labor and deliveries and let patients deliver at home. Let them sue themselves.

What some of you may not realize is that patients are not legally allowed to give up their American God-given right to sue almost anybody for almost anything, not even for an elective procedure months in advance, or for free care, even if they want to. Oh, no, siree. Gods forbid we bypass the parasitic malpractice legal class.

 

[TheLoneWolf]

So if they go full warren/bernie Medicare for all and get rid of private insurance and the government becomes sole payer, what will happen to malpractice carriers? Does that burden fall on private entities or the government? Would we expect to see such malpractice payouts or would this place a lid on such out of control legal costs? If government becomes sole malpractice carrier, sounds like we would be expecting nationwide tort reform and fewer legal hassles. If they don't, sounds like such payouts would hasten bankruptcy of whatever nationalized system they are considering.

 

[vector2]

So if they go full warren/bernie Medicare for all and get rid of private insurance and the government becomes sole payer, what will happen to malpractice carriers? Does that burden fall on private entities or the government? Would we expect to see such malpractice payouts or would this place a lid on such out of control legal costs? If government becomes sole malpractice carrier, sounds like we would be expecting nationwide tort reform and fewer legal hassles. If they don't, sounds like such payouts would hasten bankruptcy of whatever nationalized system they are considering.

I'm employed by a state university and thus if I get sued essentially the entire state is getting sued due to sovereign immunity. I believe there's a <500k-1m cap on damages per my state law. Theres no way we'd ever get to single payer without federal sovereign immunity from torts.

 

[somedumbDO]

Welcome to Cook County Illinois. The jury awards here are astronomically high. What’s interesting is the Hospital administrators at West sub hospital instead of going with a good private practice-group went with Somnia. Their model consists of a bunch of cRNA’s and only one doc, while doing high-risk OB.

 

[coffeebythelake]

Welcome to Cook County Illinois. The jury awards here are astronomically high. What’s interesting is the Hospital administrators at West sub hospital instead of going with a good private practice-group went with Somnia. Their model consists of a bunch of cRNA’s and only one doc, while doing high-risk OB.

Definitely suboptimal. Hospital administrators to blame for this situation. Playing a game of Russian roulette in the name of saving money. That being said, for this specific case, it doesnt sound like it had to do with the anesthesia staff.

 

[somedumbDO]

Definitely suboptimal. Hospital administrators to blame for this situation. Playing a game of Russian roulette in the name of saving money. That being said, for this specific case, it doesnt sound like it had to do with the anesthesia staff.

I agree Anesthesia was not at fault. But this just shows you the hospital administrators mindset.

 

[TheLoneWolf]

From the article, was owned by tenet health. I had rotated at one of their hospitals and it doesn't sit right with me. A for profit hospital who answer to the investors and use cost cutting measures is not in line with inner city tertiary care. We understand often we have to balance health care cost with patient needs but overall environment seems low key hostile. Not every department will produce a profit. Costs need to be spread around to cover necessary inpatient services. Dont want to discuss details but not what I liked. Nothing illegal or shady. Not a knock against tenet alone as I am sure there are several for profit companies with their hands in the healthcare game.

 

[pgg]

I'm employed by a state university and thus if I get sued essentially the entire state is getting sued due to sovereign immunity. I believe there's a <500k-1m cap on damages per my state law. Theres no way we'd ever get to single payer without federal sovereign immunity from torts.

If there's a crate of bullets for the insurance companies and another crate for malpractice lawyers, maybe M4A wouldn't be so bad.

 

[MoMoGesiologist]

Not bailing out a bank can easily cause hundreds of millions in economic damages. That's a much easier calculation.

The reason this country should NOT have national healthcare insurance is exactly the fact that people can't separate their emotions from business. One can't have socialized medicine without "death squads". The line will have to be drawn somewhere, and by businesspeople not juries.

So who’s gonna be on this “death squad”? Jeff Bezos? Zuckerberg? Trump? Maybe make it like the Supreme Court and have lifetime appointments? I’d vote for you @FFP!

 

[nimbus]

I'm employed by a state university and thus if I get sued essentially the entire state is getting sued due to sovereign immunity. I believe there's a <500k-1m cap on damages per my state law. Theres no way we'd ever get to single payer without federal sovereign immunity from torts.

Those limits are usually for noneconomic damages only. My state limits noneconomic damages to $250k but if the plaintiff can show economic damages, the awards can still be in the tens of millions. Often the largest awards are cases of children who will need ongoing lifetime medical care as a result of some medical mishap.

 

[AMEHigh]

Geez.

This is why medical practice in this country is insane. This is a lotto ticket.

I don't have all the facts but judgements like this make me physically ill.

Every OB patient is basically a ticking timebomb. And don't get me started on the patients who roll in with no prenatal care but scream lawyer the second things don't go their way.

Honestly, just close all labor and deliveries and let patients deliver at home. Let them sue themselves.

Monetarily wise in this case what wouldn’t make you ill and what do you think would be a fair judgment?

It’s definitely a case of negligence based on my reading of the facts of the case presented.

I don’t have a number in mind off the top of my head, but curious to hear what others think.

 

[vector2]

Those limits are usually for noneconomic damages only. My state limits noneconomic damages to $250k but if the plaintiff can show economic damages, the awards can still be in the tens of millions. Often the largest awards are cases of children who will need ongoing lifetime medical care as a result of some medical mishap.

Thank god I dont do any peds and I do OB about 6 times a year

 

[deleted171991]

So who’s gonna be on this “death squad”? Jeff Bezos? Zuckerberg? Trump? Maybe make it like the Supreme Court and have lifetime appointments? I’d vote for you @FFP!

When Obamacare was proposed the republicans were scaring the population with the idea of "death squads" turning off poor grandma's ventilator.

What they called "death squads" are physician committees many European hospitals have for declaring that care is futile, or for rejecting certain treatments because the cost per day of life extended is above what the system can legally afford.

 

[MoMoGesiologist]

When Obamacare was proposed the republicans were scaring the population with the idea of "death squads" turning off poor grandma's ventilator.

Hmm the hospital can’t bill insurance if we turn off grandmas ventilator. No to death squads!

 

[deleted171991]

Hmm the hospital can’t bill insurance if we turn off grandmas ventilator. No to death squads!

And that's how we got to the other absurdity I have not seen elsewhere: we keep grandma alive another 2 days till the family flies in "to say goodbye". For a societal cost of like $10K. Seriously?!

So yes, we can't have both that and national insurance.

 

[anonperson]

Monetarily wise in this case what wouldn’t make you ill and what do you think would be a fair judgment?

It’s definitely a case of negligence based on my reading of the facts of the case presented.

I don’t have a number in mind off the top of my head, but curious to hear what others think.

Pay for his monthly care until he dies. Simple. Not some ridiculous 8 figure verdict.

The problem is this kid was likely compromised to an extent before his mom even came to the hospital. This was a no win situation. It was potentially made worse by the delay.

Also, 34 week infants have a higher rate of complications including cerebral palsy by virtue of being preterm. Let's say they did the c section quicker and the kid has some deficits because of prematurity, what then? Who do we sue? Can we criticize the patient for having a bad placenta and bad genes?

There will be bad outcomes even if everything is done perfectly statistically speaking.

"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life"

Captain Picard

 

[dannyboy1]

Hospital administrators take note. Quality and education of your staff matters.

Seems to me like the corporate healthcare types do not account for this sort of thing. Potential lawsuits/liability can’t be placed into a balance sheet. They look no further then the next quarterly earnings report.....

 

[anbuitachi]

Seems to me like the corporate healthcare types do not account for this sort of thing. Potential lawsuits/liability can’t be placed into a balance sheet. They look no further then the next quarterly earnings report.....

Im sure they have their risk team calculate the monetary cost/benefit ratio and determined that this type of practice gets them more money... most lawsuits are covered by malpractice limits anyway. a 50 mil lawsuit is pretty rare.

 

[narcotics999]

Im sure they have their risk team calculate the monetary cost/benefit ratio and determined that this type of practice gets them more money... most lawsuits are covered by malpractice limits anyway. a 50 mil lawsuit is pretty rare.

Imagine ob called for emergent c/s and the anesthesiologist delayed the case for 3mins for whatever reason. Anesthesia’s fault...


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[ScarfTheVerb]

I’m 99.9% sure that is untrue. There are def medical malpractice cases through the VA. I’d love to read more about the process. I know there was a bill I believe introduced in the senate last year that wanted the VA to also be responsible for medical professionals who were contractors and not VA employees, but it seems it died in Congress.

Patients at the VA definitely sue but it’s a little different than a private malpractice case. The defendant is the US government and is represented by a lawyer from the US Attorneys office. The case is tried in federal court, and it’s often a bench trial—the federal judge decides the outcome and award without the involvement of a jury. I suspect that may cut down on the unreasonable punitive damages, but by there’s no reason economic damages couldn’t be in the many millions if the math were right. Usually one or both sides will hire some sort of labor economist to argue how much or how little should be paid out.

 

[pgg]

Hmm the hospital can’t bill insurance if we turn off grandmas ventilator. No to death squads!

Hey, don't forget, sometimes if you postpone the patient's death a couple days you can game that 30-day mortality metric ...

 

[jwk]

Pay for his monthly care until he dies. Simple. Not some ridiculous 8 figure verdict.

The problem is this kid was likely compromised to an extent before his mom even came to the hospital. This was a no win situation. It was potentially made worse by the delay.

Also, 34 week infants have a higher rate of complications including cerebral palsy by virtue of being preterm. Let's say they did the c section quicker and the kid has some deficits because of prematurity, what then? Who do we sue? Can we criticize the patient for having a bad placenta and bad genes?

There will be bad outcomes even if everything is done perfectly statistically speaking.

"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life"

Captain Picard

Although $50M seems quite excessive, I can see big numbers on this regardless.

What's a good guess just for argument sake? $1000 a day for 24/7 care? That's $365K a year, or $7.3 million for 20 years, and that's just a lowball estimate of actual damages for necessary ongoing care just to exist. Add all the medical costs on top of that and that could easily double. Then of course one would have to add in adjustments for inflation. And these are just the start for actual economic damages. The non-economic pain and suffering money is nothing compared to the actual damages UNLESS you're in a state like Georgia where the cap on non-economic damages was ruled unconstitutional under state law.

 

[deleted875186]

More than 95% of cases of CP happen before labor. Not saying the delay to deliver wasn’t the cause of the injury in this case, but it very well may not have been. OB is a crap shoot.