510 MCAT, Impossible to get into "Top 20" MS?

[HomoSapiens]

Hi everyone,

I've been lurking for a while here, and it seems that while 510 is fairly above the median MCAT score, everyone here is receiving much higher scores -- like >515. When I look at the WAMC forum, those with 510's aren't usually advised to apply to "Top 20's" while when I use LizzyM and "search for schools within 10th%" most of the list are those medical schools generally considered "Top 20."

Here's my question: do I really have a shot at those schools? Thankfully, other than my MCAT score, I think the rest of my application is fairly competitive (heavily upwards trending GPA [3.73], very strong LOR's, strong clinical exposure (>700 hours), more than 2000 hours of productive research, athlete, (at least I think) a compelling life story, evidence of strong leadership, and the other "boxes" checked).

Because money wasn't an issue thankfully, I applied to 36 schools -- most of the top 20's in areas I could see myself living in for 4+ years, and about 15 "mid" tiers and 5 "safeties." I'm wondering if I applied to top heavy... Sorry for the long post but thank you for the input!!

Albany Medical College
Albert Einstein College of Medicine
Boston University School of Medicine
Columbia University College of P & S
David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA
Drexel University College of Medicine
Emory University School of Medicine
Geisel School of Medicine at Dartmouth
George Washington University Sch of Med & Hlth Sci
Georgetown University School of Medicine
Harvard Medical School
Hofstra Northwell School of Medicine at Hofstra University
Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai
Keck Sch. of Med.University of Southern California
Lewis Katz School of Medicine at Temple University
Mayo Clinic School of Medicine
Mayo Clinic School of Medicine - AZ Campus
New York Medical College
New York University
Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine
Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania
Quinnipiac University SOM
Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Scien
Rush Medical College
Sidney Kimmel Medical College at Thomas Jefferson University
Stanford University School of Medicine
The University of Miami School of Medicine
Tufts University School of Medicine
University of California San Diego
University of California San Francisco
University of Chicago - Pritzker
University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
University of Rochester School of Medicine and Den
Weill Cornell Medicine
Yale School of Medicine

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[tantacles]

Moved to WAMC

 

[DrDwayneJohnson]

Take a look at MSAR also. It should help you out. I can tell you right now you probably shouldn't apply to Harvard, Boston, Penn, Yale, Icahn, NYU, Stanford, and probably not Cornell. None of those (except for Cornell) had 510 in their 10%ile. Most had a low of a 512. Cornell had a 10%ile of a 510 but it looked like hardly anyone had that low.

Also, Rush has a big service requirement. I'm thinking it's something like >1000 hours. Get on MSAR and look at the tenth percentile for schools and that should give you a good idea. Also, be aware that some schools on your list get tons of applicants for the amount of seats they have (i.e. GW, Georgetown, Mayo x2).

 

[Lord Kek]

For your GPA and MCAT your applied extremely top heavy. Did you consult MSAR before you made this list? You also added a lot of schools that don't take many OOS applicants.

 

[Tchotchke]

You have a shot at some of these schools. But IMO you should not bother with many of the top tier, or at the least you need more mid-tier and low tier. We need more background--are you URM, where is your state of residency? For example, are you from Cali? If not, I would not recommend doing the secondaries for UCLA , USC, et cetera. Is the GPA you listed your overall? what is your science? Take that into consideration as well when you look on MSAR.

I know what you're talking about--I personally felt that 10% thing was misleading. To put into old MCAT terms, a 510 is basically a 30. Check out MSAR school by school. I think once upon a time, Icahn's average was about 3.8 and a 34. You need to be more realistic and add more lower stuff.

Edit: save the money you would otherwise use on a handful of these top tier secondaries. Unless you are very unique with publications and amazing accomplishments, Harvard and Icahn won't look your way. Save even $200 by not doing those

 

[HomoSapiens]

Take a look at MSAR also. It should help you out. I can tell you right now you probably shouldn't apply to Harvard, Boston, Penn, Yale, Icahn, NYU, Stanford, and probably not Cornell. None of those (except for Cornell) had 510 in their 10%ile. Most had a low of a 512. Cornell had a 10%ile of a 510 but it looked like hardly anyone had that low.

Also, Rush has a big service requirement. I'm thinking it's something like >1000 hours. Get on MSAR and look at the tenth percentile for schools and that should give you a good idea. Also, be aware that some schools on your list get tons of applicants for the amount of seats they have (i.e. GW, Georgetown, Mayo x2).

For your GPA and MCAT your applied extremely top heavy. Did you consult MSAR before you made this list? You also added a lot of schools that don't take many OOS applicants.

You have a shot at some of these schools. But IMO you should not bother with many of the top tier, or at the least you need more mid-tier and low tier. We need more background--are you URM, where is your state of residency? For example, are you from Cali? If not, I would not recommend doing the secondaries for UCLA , USC, et cetera.

I know what you're talking about--I personally felt that 10% thing was misleading. To put into old MCAT terms, a 510 is basically a 30. Check out MSAR school by school. I think once upon a time, Icahn's average was about 3.8 and a 34. You need to be more realistic and add more lower stuff.

Thank you for all the responses. Yeah, unfortunately I went with the LizzyM scores within 10% of mine, so that's my actual list🙁

I'm not URM but can speak a different language fluently, because my parents are not from here (Egyptian). I consulted MSAR and most of the schools I applied to at least had 10th% section scores like mine (127 for all sections except CARS which was 129). My state of residency is Oklahoma. Seems like I'm screwed...

 

[HomoSapiens]

cGPA = 3.74, sGPA = 3.65. First generation college student as well if that changes anything really.

 

[HomoSapiens]

When I say athlete, I mean I competed on the Junior Olympic team, and I've read a couple of times here that that could be considered something that sways adcoms to send an II a little more than what my stats would normally do.

 

[Tchotchke]

Thank you for all the responses. Yeah, unfortunately I went with the LizzyM scores within 10% of mine, so that's my actual list🙁

I'm not URM but can speak a different language fluently, because my parents are not from here (Egyptian). I consulted MSAR and most of the schools I applied to at least had 10th% section scores like mine (127 for all sections except CARS which was 129). My state of residency is Oklahoma. Seems like I'm screwed...

You aren't screwed. You just need to do some research (look at other posts in the What are my Chances forum) to see school suggestions. I would actually also recommend you apply using the TMDSAS application including Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine (if you are open to it) and Texas Tech which is in Lubbock, not too far from OK. It is an extremely cheap application and worth doing especially someone with your background. Not the highest yield, because most of the spots need to be filled by texas residents, but for you it might be worth it. Most of their apps are little to no cost.

EDIT: with your stats and residency, do not waste your time and money with apps to the Cali schools. Look into Loyola and LSU

 

[DrDwayneJohnson]

That could definitely help set you apart. I also really really recommend applying to your state school.

 

[TheBiologist]

You have a shot at some of these schools. But IMO you should not bother with many of the top tier, or at the least you need more mid-tier and low tier. We need more background--are you URM, where is your state of residency? For example, are you from Cali? If not, I would not recommend doing the secondaries for UCLA , USC, et cetera. Is the GPA you listed your overall? what is your science? Take that into consideration as well when you look on MSAR.

I know what you're talking about--I personally felt that 10% thing was misleading. To put into old MCAT terms, a 510 is basically a 30. Check out MSAR school by school. I think once upon a time, Icahn's average was about 3.8 and a 34. You need to be more realistic and add more lower stuff.

Edit: save the money you would otherwise use on a handful of these top tier secondaries. Unless you are very unique with publications and amazing accomplishments, Harvard and Icahn won't look your way. Save even $200 by not doing those

actually I disagree, perhaps UCLA and USC are worth applying to, at least based off 2018 MSAR:

Keck:
25-75% (Accepted): 510-518 Median 515
25-75% (Matriculated) 509-516 Median 512

UCLA:
25-75% (Accepted): 503-517 Median 508
25-75% (Matriculated) 502-513 Median 505

I would leave those but I agree that your Yale, columbia, harvard, chicago etc are way reaches unless you had a 4.0 from one of their undergrads

 

[Tchotchke]

actually I disagree, perhaps UCLA and USC are worth applying to, at least based off 2018 MSAR:

Keck:
25-75% (Accepted): 510-518 Median 515
25-75% (Matriculated) 509-516 Median 512

UCLA:
25-75% (Accepted): 503-517 Median 508
25-75% (Matriculated) 502-513 Median 505

I would leave those but I agree that your Yale, columbia, harvard, chicago etc are way reaches unless you had a 4.0 from one of their undergrads

stats-wise, yes but they are very in-state biased.

 

[TheBiologist]

stats-wise, yes but they are very in-state biased.

USC is most certainly not as it is private and I am 90% certain (but could be wrong 10% chance) that UCLA also does not favor in state (and UCSD and UCI as well, I believe)

I checked their website last year for this information

 

[NeuroSoph75]

If you're at the 10th percentile for a school, they accept 10% of applicants with your stats or lower -- those aren't good odds. That's why you're advised to apply to schools where you match the median or are above the median so you have greater than a 50% chance of getting in -- much better odds. The tenth percentile is not a rule of thumb to base your list off of, the median is. Your are even 5 points below the median for Emory, Dartmouth, Miami, BU, etc. You are a great candidate for GWU, Georgetown, etc. Obviously speaking in terms of stats alone.

 

[TheBiologist]

If you're at the 10th percentile for a school, you have about a 10% chance of getting in -- those aren't good odds. That's why you're advised to apply to schools where you match the median or are above the median so you have greater than a 50% chance of getting in -- much better odds. The tenth percentile is not a rule of thumb to base your list off of, the median is. Your are even 5 points below the median for Emory, Dartmouth, Miami, BU, etc. You are a great candidate for GWU, Georgetown, etc. Obviously speaking in terms of stats alone.

I'm not sure if your numbering scheme is completely accurate; I would not say someone with median stats has a "50%" chance of getting in (therefore, applying to just 2 schools with median stats ensures an acceptance)

However, your overall advice I think is good; applying at the 10th percentile is not a very good chance at all, or perhaps even less than 1/10

 

[NeuroSoph75]

I'm not sure if your numbering scheme is completely accurate; I would not say someone with median stats has a "50%" chance of getting in (therefore, applying to just 2 schools with median stats ensures an acceptance)

However, your overall advice I think is good; applying at the 10th percentile is not a very good chance at all, or perhaps even less than 1/10

Yes, you're right. I have trouble explaining percentiles. I guess I should have said that 50% of accepted applicants have his stats or lower if he is at the median.

 

[gyngyn]

I count 8 schools where you have a fair to good chance at an interview. That is not usually enough for a good CA applicant.

 

[HomoSapiens]

I count 8 schools where you have a fair to good chance at an interview. That is not usually enough for a good CA applicant.

There might have been a miscommunication -- I'm an OK resident.

 

[gyngyn]

There might have been a miscommunication -- I'm an OK resident.

From Oklahoma?

 

[HomoSapiens]

From Oklahoma?

Exactly.

 

[gyngyn]

Exactly.

If you add your state school, you have 7 schools where you have a fair to good chance at an interview. That should be plenty for a good OK applicant. You could easily delete most of your list without harming your chances at matriculation. The mean MCAT for a successful OK applicant is 507.6. 32% matriculate in state.

 

[HomoSapiens]

If you add your state school, you have 7 schools where you have a fair to good chance at an interview. That should be plenty for a good OK applicant. You could easily delete most of your list without harming your chances at matriculation. The mean MCAT for a successful OK applicant is 507.6. 32% matriculate in state.

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it!

 

[Willy38]

I'd say its worth a shot at top places. Definitely wouldn't just go with all top tier but pick a handful and give it a shot! You sound interesting and if I was reading your app I'd want to interview you at Yale.

 

[HomoSapiens]

I'd say its worth a shot at top places. Definitely wouldn't just go with all top tier but pick a handful and give it a shot! You sound interesting and if I was reading your app I'd want to interview you at Yale.

Lol hey don't get my hopes up man! I did leave out some of the more "unique" or "interesting" aspects of my app, so maybe you're right, but since I already submitted I can't really change the fact that I applied "top-heavy."

Like @gyngyn said -- I could easily remove many of my schools from that list and not hurt my chances, so I'll just have an application with more "reaches" than normal or warranted, with a semi-comfortable amount of "targets." Let's hope for the best!

 

[all things possible]

You aren't screwed. You just need to do some research (look at other posts in the What are my Chances forum) to see school suggestions. I would actually also recommend you apply using the TMDSAS application including Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine (if you are open to it) and Texas Tech which is in Lubbock, not too far from OK. It is an extremely cheap application and worth doing especially someone with your background. Not the highest yield, because most of the spots need to be filled by texas residents, but for you it might be worth it. Most of their apps are little to no cost.

EDIT: with your stats and residency, do not waste your time and money with apps to the Cali schools. Look into Loyola and LSU

Bad advice about applying to Texas schools

 

[efle]

For "top 20" a ~67 LizzyM is very low for an ORM, save for a few places (like UCLA). I would be surprised if you had lots of love from most of that list.

 

[HomoSapiens]

So I just got my application verified, and somehow (dying of happiness right now) I miscalculated my GPAs.

• sGPA: 3.72
• cGPA:3.88

Does that really change my circumstance at all? Thanks! @efle @gyngyn

 

[HomoSapiens]

Bad advice about applying to Texas schools

Why's that?

 

[gyngyn]

So I just got my application verified, and somehow (dying of happiness right now) I miscalculated my GPAs.

• sGPA: 3.72
• cGPA:3.88

Does that really change my circumstance at all? Thanks! @efle @gyngyn

You are a very good applicant with at least 7 schools on your list where you might get an interview!

 

[njtrimed]

So I just got my application verified, and somehow (dying of happiness right now) I miscalculated my GPAs.

• sGPA: 3.72
• cGPA:3.88

Does that really change my circumstance at all? Thanks! @efle @gyngyn

Congrats on the excellent GPA! Since a 510 is roughly equivalent to a 31, your LizzyM is actually more like a 70. The fact that you applied "top heavy" doesn't really matter; just don't send in all those secondaries! Yes, it's a waste of $37/app (or whatever it is now), but it's better than investing another $100+/app and all the time on secondary essays for schools that are unlikely to interview you. Take all the specific school advice here and look at the MSAR to see which of the schools on your list are within range in terms of MCAT. You could probably take most of the top schools off but add another few mid-tiers. Good luck!

 

[all things possible]

Why's that?

Huge instate bias

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Huge instate bias

In this case I disagree. Applying to the Texas schools is good for OP because he comes from a neighboring state and has a high GPA, which Texas schools love. The OOS people at Texas schools tend to come largely from neighboring states and BYU.

 

[all things possible]

In this case I disagree. Applying to the Texas schools is good for OP because he comes from a neighboring state and has a high GPA, which Texas schools love. The OOS people at Texas schools tend to come largely from neighboring states and BYU.

~7% OOS matriculants is not enough of a reason to apply unless you have stellar stats or a very unique application.

I see a few others like the poster above recommending nonresidents to apply to Texas schools simply because the cost to apply is low. This isn't good advice.

If the OP went to BYU then maybe I could see him applying but I still wouldn't highly recommend it.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

~7% OOS matriculants is not enough of a reason to apply unless you have stellar stats or a very unique application.

I see a few others like the poster above recommending nonresidents to apply to Texas schools simply because the cost to apply is low. This isn't good advice.

If the OP went to BYU then maybe I could see him applying but I still wouldn't highly recommend it.

I disagree. In most cases yes Texas is futile, but OP is in a neighboring state with a high GPA. Also applying to Texas schools is actually standard advisement given to BYU students because they accept so many of them every year, but that's not pertinent here. Because OP is from a neighboring state, an applicant friendly state where they have a good chance at their state school, and has good stats, I think applying to Texas schools is a valid recommendation. The schools like TTU, UTMB, and UTSA will potentially like OP because they will raise their average MCAT numbers.

I think it a far better endeavor for OP to apply to Texas schools than some of the top schools they have listed above like Harvard.

 

[all things possible]

I disagree. In most cases yes Texas is futile, but OP is in a neighboring state with a high GPA. Also applying to Texas schools is actually standard advisement given to BYU students because they accept so many of them every year, but that's not pertinent here. Because OP is from a neighboring state, an applicant friendly state where they have a good chance at their state school, and has good stats, I think applying to Texas schools is a valid recommendation. The schools like TTU, UTMB, and UTSA will potentially like OP because they will raise their average MCAT numbers.

I think it a far better endeavor for OP to apply to Texas schools than some of the top schools they have listed above like Harvard.

UTMB's average is already higher than OPs cGPA, so no it wouldn't. Texas Tech Lubbock did have a good number from BYU but that's irrelevant to OP. I can't comment on Utsa.

OP could apply if he's actually interested in attending a Texas medical school and maybe even a practicing in Texas not because he's close by and has a good GPA.