523 MCAT / 3.1 GPA. Advice?

[The_JLK]

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Hi all, I'm hoping to get some advice on where my app stands and if I should apply this cycle.

I'm a non-traditional applicant that graduated from an HYP school in 2019 with an abysmal 2.72 GPA (prolonged illness combined with first gen/low SES having to work ~15 hours/week I just crumbled under the weight of it all and limped to graduation). Afterwards, I wanted to still be involved in affecting health outcomes in some way (since med school seemed out of the question), so I took a job managing a massive gym in the northeast (~600,000 check-ins per year). This was an incredible experience as I was really tasked with turning the condition of the gym around and improving member retention. Got to know lots of my members super well and it was just an all around rewarding experience being apart of their health journeys. Anyway, got a taste of what it feels like to guide people in their journey to be healthy, decided I wanted more and went back to school since my medical issues were now in the past. Got a 4.0 on 61 science credits which puts my GPA at 3.13 and sGPA around 3.55. I took the MCAT and got a 523 (130/131/132/130) and need a bit of advice on how to move forward on my app.

Work history:

~2400 hours managing the gym
~1200 full-time research since january
~1600 hours working various jobs during undergrad ranging from working in the dining hall to serving coffee to bartending

ECs at time of application:
~120 hours hospice volunteer
~150 hours tutoring low-income middle/high school students
~225 hours delivering high-quality food to low-income, homebound, and/or elderly people in my city (a high percentage of the city i currently live in is classified as a "food desert")
~140 hours as a volunteer EMT at my PB institution
~200 hours volunteering at a free clinic for low-income patients advising on their diet/exercise routine in the context of managing various chronic illnesses
~300 hours volunteering at a farmer's market geared toward providing nutritious food at a steep discount for low-income residents of our city
plenty of physician shadowing


How am I looking? I know I don't have a particularly great stats but I'm just having trouble finding schools that are worth applying to since my GPA is just so far below so many 10%iles.

Any advice on my application and school list would be greatly appreciated!

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I think the MCAT and HYP graduate status will get you into a low or mid tier MD

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

If you tell your story right, you have a good shot even at a t20.

 

[MyOdyssey]

What is your state of residence? That will matter a lot because the best shot for many is with their in state public medical schools.

Are you an URM as defined by medical school admissions committees?

Would you consider DO schools?

 

[mudfud26]

That's great! If you look at this nice chart (link below), you'll see that applicants with your cGPA and MCAT have a more than 50% rate of acceptance in the last cycle. This chart was my source of hope until I got my first II. https://www.aamc.org/system/files/2021-11/2021_FACTS_Table_A-23.pdf

For your personal statement/ app in general, emphasize your academic potential and (fabulous) upward trend. If you include your illness in your PS, make it brief (2-4 sentences maximum) and an overall positive force in your life (one of multiple factors for your interest in medicine). If there is a question on "anything more you'd like to add?" or "any bad grades you'd like to explain?" on a secondary, emphasize the upward trend in your GPA and something additional you have done to succeed in school besides becoming a healthy, functioning human being without chronic illness. This can be improved time management or learning study skills, or anything that was especially helpful for getting that awesome MCAT score. You can say that this has prepared you for the studying you will do for medical school years 1-2 / STEP 1, etc.

Cast a wide net when applying, but make sure to include schools where you have ties. My stats are similar to yours and I had success with schools where I had ties (family that lived close, home state, etc). Having ties to the region, especially a support system like family, indicates to the school that you are more likely to go there; definitely mention these factors in the "why x school" section of the secondary.

The schools I got IIs to also had an MCAT average that was lower than my score. Their GPA averages were all above mine. PM me if you would like my excel sheet of the schools I applied to with averages, if I applied, and some extras.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I think you're okay, but my chief concern is that you aren't really around very sick people with your work with the gym. I think you might be great in a different role such as a physical therapist. I don't know if being around athletic trainers make you interested in that field. The way you format your activities, I have no sense of chronology, so when you did all of those other activities likely occurred while you were in college but not necessarily in the last 2 years (but correct me if you did). Again, if I had access to your actual application, my opinion could be different.

 

[The_JLK]

I think you're okay, but my chief concern is that you aren't really around very sick people with your work with the gym. I think you might be great in a different role such as a physical therapist. I don't know if being around athletic trainers make you interested in that field. The way you format your activities, I have no sense of chronology, so when you did all of those other activities likely occurred while you were in college but not necessarily in the last 2 years (but correct me if you did). Again, if I had access to your actual application, my opinion could be different.

Thanks for the reply! So the gym position was one I worked immediately after college in 2019 and I think it gave me a perspective on health (more of a proactive approach vs reactive, that kind of thing) that I hope to one day apply to practicing medicine. Its obviously not clinical experience but it's been an important part of my journey to helping me realize that I want to pursue medical school.

All of the EC's listed are within the last two years! I should have clarified that haha

 

[chilly_md]

Your hospice volunteering, EMT role and volunteering at the free clinic is pretty extensive clinical experience. The 60 credits of post bacc work show you are a different student. What is your state of residence?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thanks for the reply! So the gym position was one I worked immediately after college in 2019 and I think it gave me a perspective on health (more of a proactive approach vs reactive, that kind of thing) that I hope to one day apply to practicing medicine. Its obviously not clinical experience but it's been an important part of my journey to helping me realize that I want to pursue medical school.

All of the EC's listed are within the last two years! I should have clarified that haha

I would focus on networking with programs that have a strong emphasis on lifestyle medicine (the common parlance). Check with professional associations on lifestyle med and see what schools pop up among the presenters of recent conferences. You also want to see about schools where that element of holistic medicine is more accepted and encouraged among students in the curriculum or student clubs. You may be looking at a lot of DO schools and a few MD's as well.

 

[The_JLK]

Your hospice volunteering, EMT role and volunteering at the free clinic is pretty extensive clinical experience. The 60 credits of post bacc work show you are a different student. What is your state of residence?

I am a GA resident of a rural county (permanent address)

 

[chilly_md]

I suggest the following:

Emory
Medical College of Georgia
Mercer
Columbia (rewards reinvention)
Vandy
Dartmouth
BU
Duke
Pitt
Mayo
Mt Sinai
Temple
EVMS
Hofstra
Emory
Jefferson
Vermont
Miami
Drexel
Albany
Tufts
NYMC
Rosalind Franklin
Tulane
Wake
MCW
SLU
Creighton
Wayne State
Netter
NovaMD

For DO:
PCOM (all campuses)
Campbell
VCOM (check cut-offs)
ACOM
DMU
KCOM
Touro NY
NYIT

 

[deleted314957]

Kinda sad how some struggles with some illnesses (generally physical) are considered laudable while struggles with other illnesses (psych/emotional) must be secreted away….

Life is tough enough as it is for you young folks.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Re-reading this, I would avoid mentioning anything about struggling to balance classes + working 15 hours. Med school is tougher than UG and most schools would probably expect you to be able to balance both

 

[Lawpy]

Re-reading this, I would avoid mentioning anything about struggling to balance classes + working 15 hours. Med school is tougher than UG and most schools would probably expect you to be able to balance both

Which is bizarre because med schools want you to stop doing everything besides research while in school

 

[deleted314957]

If you are/were a rigorous science major I do not think med school is ACADEMICALLY harder than undergrad. There really are no difficult concepts to learn in med school if you were. P Chem, molecular biology, diff eq are tough conceptually.

The thing about med school it time mgmt associated with volume of material.

Different story if you had limited undergrad science or just did not like science.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

If you are/were a rigorous science major I do not think med school is ACADEMICALLY harder than undergrad. There really are no difficult concepts to learn in med school if you were. P Chem, molecular biology, diff eq are tough conceptually.

The thing about med school it time mgmt associated with volume of material.

Different story if you had limited undergrad science or just did not like science.

I agree since in many cases, med students don’t have to worry about getting an A- vs a B+

However Adcoms almost certainly select candidates with a belief that students who struggled in UG will struggle more in med school

 

[deleted314957]

I agree since in many cases, med students don’t have to worry about getting an A- vs a B+

However Adcoms almost certainly select candidates with a belief that students who struggled in UG will struggle more in med school

I agree. But not because they believe the candidates are academically incapable of learning the material. it is dealing with the whole enchilada that they are trying to assess. Mind you, I’m not adcom but i’ve figured that out after ~50 years in the game.

 

[mstrick14]

Hi all, I'm hoping to get some advice on where my app stands and if I should apply this cycle.

I'm a non-traditional applicant that graduated from an HYP school in 2019 with an abysmal 2.72 GPA (prolonged illness combined with first gen/low SES having to work ~15 hours/week I just crumbled under the weight of it all and limped to graduation). Afterwards, I wanted to still be involved in affecting health outcomes in some way (since med school seemed out of the question), so I took a job managing a massive gym in the northeast (~600,000 check-ins per year). This was an incredible experience as I was really tasked with turning the condition of the gym around and improving member retention. Got to know lots of my members super well and it was just an all around rewarding experience being apart of their health journeys. Anyway, got a taste of what it feels like to guide people in their journey to be healthy, decided I wanted more and went back to school since my medical issues were now in the past. Got a 4.0 on 61 science credits which puts my GPA at 3.13 and sGPA around 3.55. I took the MCAT and got a 523 (130/131/132/130) and need a bit of advice on how to move forward on my app.

Work history:

~2400 hours managing the gym
~1200 full-time research since january
~1600 hours working various jobs during undergrad ranging from working in the dining hall to serving coffee to bartending

ECs at time of application:
~120 hours hospice volunteer
~150 hours tutoring low-income middle/high school students
~225 hours delivering high-quality food to low-income, homebound, and/or elderly people in my city (a high percentage of the city i currently live in is classified as a "food desert")
~140 hours as a volunteer EMT at my PB institution
~200 hours volunteering at a free clinic for low-income patients advising on their diet/exercise routine in the context of managing various chronic illnesses
~300 hours volunteering at a farmer's market geared toward providing nutritious food at a steep discount for low-income residents of our city
plenty of physician shadowing


How am I looking? I know I don't have a particularly great stats but I'm just having trouble finding schools that are worth applying to since my GPA is just so far below so many 10%iles.

Any advice on my application and school list would be greatly appreciated!

Given your scores and previous work experience I think you have an excellent chance of getting in. Most medical schools like to see improvement if a given "failure" is present. Im not saying you failed with your gpa - just that you weren't happy with it. You've definitely improved your GPA and your MCAT score is very good.

Ignore the people referencing getting into different "ranks" of schools. They all teach you the same thing, and you get out of it what you put in. The only difference is how "prestigious" a given medical school is and how many resources may be available to you. As far as I'm aware, and from conversations I've had with others, no one really cares that much where you went to medical school (unless it's the Caribbean, though I'm not as familiar) - people (Hospitals and institutions) care where you trained, where you went to residency.

Even if you went to a school that wasn't highly ranked, but you did enough to set yourself apart through your step scores, research, clubs, etc., most residency programs aren't going to care that much whether you went to one school or another. Like I said, someone going to Wright State University is going to walk out knowing the same things as someone who went to Harvard University.

Good luck!

 

[mudfud26]

I suggest the following:

Emory
Medical College of Georgia
Mercer
Columbia (rewards reinvention)
Vandy
Dartmouth
BU
Duke
Pitt
Mayo
Mt Sinai
Temple
EVMS
Hofstra
Emory
Jefferson
Vermont
Miami
Drexel
Albany
Tufts
NYMC
Rosalind Franklin
Tulane
Wake
MCW
SLU
Creighton
Wayne State
Netter
NovaMD

For DO:
PCOM (all campuses)
Campbell
VCOM (check cut-offs)
ACOM
DMU
KCOM
Touro NY
NYIT

I would not recommend Pitt, Tufts, Mayo, Columbia, and some of these other highly ranked schools. They are highly stat-focused and don't interview people far outside of their cGPA average. I have spoken with a Columbia recruiter at a conference who said they do not interview people below their GPA threshold. I have similar stats to you, and only got interviews at schools with a lower average MCAT and GPA. My rec's are below.
- Penn State
- Rutgers RWJ
- Rutgers NJ MS
- WVU
- Wayne State
- Temple
- Rowan

 

[chilly_md]

It seems in your case you were an MD/PhD candidate while OP is not. The provided list has several good matches while also including some more powerhouse schools that have accepted re-inventors in the past.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Given your scores and previous work experience I think you have an excellent chance of getting in. Most medical schools like to see improvement if a given "failure" is present. Im not saying you failed with your gpa - just that you weren't happy with it. You've definitely improved your GPA and your MCAT score is very good.

Ignore the people referencing getting into different "ranks" of schools. They all teach you the same thing, and you get out of it what you put in. The only difference is how "prestigious" a given medical school is and how many resources may be available to you. As far as I'm aware, and from conversations I've had with others, no one really cares that much where you went to medical school (unless it's the Caribbean, though I'm not as familiar) - people (Hospitals and institutions) care where you trained, where you went to residency.

Even if you went to a school that wasn't highly ranked, but you did enough to set yourself apart through your step scores, research, clubs, etc., most residency programs aren't going to care that much whether you went to one school or another. Like I said, someone going to Wright State University is going to walk out knowing the same things as someone who went to Harvard University.

Good luck!

Prestige can be important, especially for competitive specialties and jobs. You're more likely to match to Mass General coming from Harvard Med than Wright State. That being said, the OP's got a good story and a great upward trend. He's top 20 material if lucky, mid-tier or state school if not. Add a few DO schools for insurance and call it a day.

 

[deleted314957]

Prestige can be important, especially for competitive specialties and jobs. You're more likely to match to Mass General coming from Harvard Med than Wright State. That being said, the OP's got a good story and a great upward trend. He's top 20 material if lucky, mid-tier or state school if not. Add a few DO schools for insurance and call it a day.

Oh no! Mid-tiers or, God forbid, state schools!
That’s how my career must have been destroyed.
“Prestige “ for jobs outside of academia (and, i believe it will be more so in the future because of the accelerating employment and reimbursement picture) is highly overrated. Just my 35 year practice experience speaking.

Your object is to get a medical degree, MD or DO. Things then begin to sort themselves out when you get that acceptance FIRST.

 

[MyOdyssey]

I would not recommend Pitt, Tufts, Mayo, Columbia, and some of these other highly ranked schools. They are highly stat-focused and don't interview people far outside of their cGPA average. I have spoken with a Columbia recruiter at a conference who said they do not interview people below their GPA threshold. I have similar stats to you, and only got interviews at schools with a lower average MCAT and GPA. My rec's are below.
- Penn State
- Rutgers RWJ
- Rutgers NJ MS
- WVU
- Wayne State
- Temple
- Rowan

What is Columbia’s GPA threshold?

 

[mudfud26]

What is Columbia’s GPA threshold?

Talking to an MD recruiter in 2018, I believe it was 3.5 but may be higher. While this was 4 years ago, I remember I didn’t qualify and crossed them off my list of schools. The recruiter said their GPA cutoff was very hard (auto-R for below)

I went to undergrad at Pitt, and their Pre-med advisors emphasized that the GPA and MCAT averages were high and in the same range as Ivy Leagues. So yes, while I did apply to MD-PhD, I do believe Pitt MD only would not consider a below average GPA applicant.

 

[Arsartium]

OP you've done a great job setting yourself up for success. Targeting schools can be challenging with such disparate GPA/MCAT numbers. I would ignore GPA percentiles for the most part. Your reinvention has been successful. Apply to a few high fliers, if you please, and tack on schools whose mission and vibe excite you. I would add UCinci, the Ohio State, and UMichigan too. The first two will love your MCAT and story. They will also grant in-state status after 1 year of residency. UMichigan honors reinvention and can be pretty generous with scholarships for profiles like yours.

I would not recommend Pitt, Tufts, Mayo, Columbia, and some of these other highly ranked schools. They are highly stat-focused and don't interview people far outside of their cGPA average. I have spoken with a Columbia recruiter at a conference who said they do not interview people below their GPA threshold. I have similar stats to you, and only got interviews at schools with a lower average MCAT and GPA. My rec's are below.
- Penn State
- Rutgers RWJ
- Rutgers NJ MS
- WVU
- Wayne State
- Temple
- Rowan

Also, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Pitt, Mayo, or Tufts. I can't comment on Columbia. If you can convey your story well, I'd say you stand a great chance at these schools. Mayo in particular appreciates more road traveled along with an MCAT >520. Happy to be a resource if you proceed this application season.

 

[DrVeryTired]

Make sure your essays are immaculate (get tons of feedback from med students) and apply to some top choices as well. Your story seems great! I think you'll have a successful cycle if you make sure you convey yourself well and demonstrate how you've grown.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Talking to an MD recruiter in 2018, I believe it was 3.5 but may be higher. While this was 4 years ago, I remember I didn’t qualify and crossed them off my list of schools. The recruiter said their GPA cutoff was very hard (auto-R for below)

I went to undergrad at Pitt, and their Pre-med advisors emphasized that the GPA and MCAT averages were high and in the same range as Ivy Leagues. So yes, while I did apply to MD-PhD, I do believe Pitt MD only would not consider a below average GPA applicant.

I have heard from a couple of people (@Goro, @LizzyM)that they like upward trends: while a flat 3.4 may well be an auto-reject, a 3.4 nontrad who did a 45-credit DIY postbacc and got a 4.0 might be a different kettle of fish!

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

The problem is that auto reject generally means that no eyes see the application. It some schools may just not seriously review any app below a certain threshold.

 

[LizzyM]

The problem is that auto reject generally means that no eyes see the application. It some schools may just not seriously review any app below a certain threshold.

Some schools will give each application a 20 second review by one individual to see if there are extenuating circumstances and send for full review those who have these unusual trajectories. Screens can also be built that automatically send for full review applicants that are EO-1 (essentially first gen students), URM, active duty military or military veteran, or age > X (to give extra review to non-trad older applicants).