60 hour work week

[ORBITAL BEBOP]

Anyone heard of reforming work hours to 60 hours max? Doesnt seem feasible.

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[TommyGunn04]

Anyone heard of reforming work hours to 60 hours max? Doesnt seem feasible.

It's called "radiology."

 

[texdrake]

Anyone heard of reforming work hours to 60 hours max? Doesnt seem feasible.

You can't actually get all the requirements done in time in some programs. I think you may in the future see it drop to 60 hours (perhaps as an option), but with them requiring an extra year of residency to go with it. To tell you the truth...I would be tempted to take the extra year for 15-20 less hours a week. Of course some specialties have lite months of only 50-60 hours a week or so...

 

[Winged Scapula]

Is this something you've heard rumor of, or just dreaming?

 

[radonc]

or radiation oncology. we dont have over night call or weekend call. its all home call...our only emergencies are svc (debatable) and spinal cord compression. i work 45 hrs/week. 8-5pm.

radiology is not that easy of a residency. they still take over night call. and, i would rather be a medicine or surgery resident overnight than a radiology...they are up all night bombarded by the ER, med students, other residents, etc to read films.

 

[Annette]

radiology is not that easy of a residency. they still take over night call. and, i would rather be a medicine or surgery resident overnight than a radiology...they are up all night bombarded by the ER, med students, other residents, etc to read films.

What in the world do you think medicine and surgery residents are doing? Loling around the poolside? At least the rad residents don't have to round on different floors and run to stats. I suppose that is why we always find them asleep!

As for 60 hours, the powers that be are still unhappy with the 80 hour rule. While possible (in the UK, residents have 56 hour weeks and get paid overtime for anything over 60, or did in the late 90's), it is very unlikely to get a 60 hour rule.

On the other hand, one hospital across town has program directors escorting residents out the door at 24 hours because someone reported them for keeping someone over 30 hours. And, my residency director (medicine) is doing her best to jettison any work that isn't "educational" like covering blood sugar questions and admissions for attendings who aren't teaching that month.

 

[CameronFrye]

I don't know where you're at, but I've never seen a radiology resident sleep while on call. Generally, radiology call is pedal to the metal all night long. Most other fields get to take at least small naps while on call (except for the worst nights).

 

[radonc]

i did two years of IM (before switching to rad onc) at a major university center, so i am well aware of how much a IM resident works while on call (and its a lot). as a resident, i was managing interns, which was hectic but i wasnt doing any scut. in the ICU/CCU you could get hit hard, but you could also get a no hitter. rads residents work hard while on call, albeit it is less often.


now in radiation, i spend every night in my own bed!

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Rads residents take infrequent, but difficult call. Nothing harder than sitting there staring at a screen knowing the ED is sending patients home when you don't catch something on their CT. Don't knock it.

As far as a true 60 hour work week, emergency medicine has been doing it for a long time. The 80 hour work week law only affected us when we're rotating on another service. I routinely have worked 60 hours during residency. We work 20-22 9-10 hour shifts a month, plus 20 hours of lecture. It adds up to about 60 hours/week.

 

[2ndyear]

I had a radiology attending in med school tell me that radiology and anesthesiology are the specialties that most people perceive as having the easiest life and work while in house, but that the opposite is true. Miss a little shadow on the mammogram, one of 20 that you read in the morning, you're looking at trouble. Same goes for CT's and rule out spinal films, etc. In anesthesia, kill a 4 year old for a routine, same day tonsillectomy or ear tubes and you're DONE. See ya. I'm just starting in anesthesia, but for my 60 or so hours a week I'm on when I'm there. No taking a break after rounds for coffee. Have to pee, you hold it. Both specialties survive and pay relatively high based on volume, volume, volume. That being said I love what I do.

 

[texdrake]

Rads residents take infrequent, but difficult call. Nothing harder than sitting there staring at a screen knowing the ED is sending patients home when you don't catch something on their CT. Don't knock it.

As far as a true 60 hour work week, emergency medicine has been doing it for a long time. The 80 hour work week law only affected us when we're rotating on another service. I routinely have worked 60 hours during residency. We work 20-22 9-10 hour shifts a month, plus 20 hours of lecture. It adds up to about 60 hours/week.

I was going to bring the ER thing up myself. I have noticed that they have pretty nice hours during residency and was wondering why one could do the same on other services, but it would be hard. I think the problem really is the number of hours that ward residents are working on their non-call days. ER shifts are 9 or 10 hours, ward shifts are more like 12-13 hours

For example:

4 days of 6am to 6 pm - 48 hours
1 day of 6am to 6am - 24 hours

You are at 72 hours with only 5 shifts.

 

[Whisker Barrel Cortex]

What in the world do you think medicine and surgery residents are doing? Loling around the poolside? At least the rad residents don't have to round on different floors and run to stats. I suppose that is why we always find them asleep!

Man, I wanna switch to your hospitals rad residency! You have no idea what a rads call is like. It's rare that we get any sleep on call. The calls are usually non-stop. I did a medicine internship at this same hospital and rads call is by far more hectic and more stressful. I interact with the surgery residents a lot, and there have been several times when they complained that their movie watching had been interrupted by a trauma. I have NEVER had time to watch a movie on call. The number of decisions I make that could have serious outcomes is probably about 5 times as many as I made as an intern. I believe the hospital you are at (from your profile)t doesn't even have a rads residency, so I'm not sure if you are talking about the attending radiologists, which is much different.

That being said, when we're not on call, we do generally have a 50-60 hour work week.

 

[PTOSIS]

just curious, if EM people can get adequate training in 60 hours, why can't IM do the same?

 

[turtle md]

just curious, if EM people can get adequate training in 60 hours, why can't IM do the same?

An EM work week of 60 hours is a full-on 60 hours of work work work. No time for coffee, no time for lunch, barely time to urinate. An IM work week (at least in my experience) is much less fast-paced. Time for lunch, time for a little socializing, and plenty of time for the ceaseless rounding. OH GOD, the Rounding ... Probably takes 80 hours in IM to equal 60 hours of actual work.

If you can't tell, I am EM

 

[Annette]

Alright, I cave! Radiology doesn't have an easy call. But my message was in response that all the other services have an easier time on call!

When I'm on-call, I'm up all night, sometimes having to have the radiology attending woken up! (no, my hospital doesn't have a rads residency, but rotated through several places as a student that did.) I can understand the fear of missing something important that an attending won't see until the morning- every resident does.

The point is, ALL residents work hard while on call. I've never heard of an easy call, just calls that were not as bad as others.

As for rounding in internal medicine, I very much agree that is sucks up way too much time. Like now, I have to go round, again!

 

[PTOSIS]

i would ratherr work 60 hours straight w/o eating, peeing, etc and do all that stuff on my own time