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It is obvious that having volunteering is a good thing, but right now worrying about it is like worrying about the garnish on a burned dinner.
Do it if it doesn't slow your recovery.
7 W's: Am I Screwed?
Started by altamont850
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Do it if it doesn't slow your recovery.
Of course, if it won't interfere with any psychological recovery. Maybe you just need to stop thinking about med school altogether for a while? Which would mean not volunteering, not doing research, etc... Completely isolate yourself from the medical realm if it brings out anxiety, depression, and feelings of hopelessness. Go bungee jumping! Or sky diving! If heights is not your thing, go paintballing, or do something for a little bit to take your mind COMPLETELY off of this topic.
You should have read my post more carefully when I said that everything is in your hands! It doesn't matter how much time goes by, or what bull---- you endure. You can still most certainly turn things around and make Medical School. Saying that you can is different from saying that you will. You can always apply later for an SMP. You can always apply for an MPH or some other degree. You can always try to do better in undergrad after you return from your break.
So in other words, if it is the lack of potentiality that worries you, and lingers in the back of your mind at night, not letting you sleep, then don't worry. There is still much potential. If you are on this forum, if you are decently bright, motivated, hard working under optimal conditions, then of course you can make a few allopathic schools here and there, and make Osteopathic ones as well! The question is, will you?
Hopefully I addressed your issue in terms of "will you be able to still do something in the future". In the mean time, relax, forget the haters, forget the problems, and go out and work out. Or run. Or get a pilot license. 👍
Thanks for the encouragement but what if I'm set on MD rather than DO?
I want to be a neurosurgeon and I've heard it's very hard to match into neurosurgery from a DO school( I'm not being presumptuous or pretentious but I know what I want).
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No offense but if your struggling with college classes and your depression how can you balance the life of a doctor with your depression, or even the life of a pre-med students and your depression
there are just too many contradictions here. If you aren't well enough to go to your classes how are you well enough to get out and volunteer?
With 10 W's this is a very unrealistic and unhealthy goal.
I'm not volunteering to fulfill some requirement( I actually find altruism fufilling and therapeutic). In addition, I I like volunteering and it brings no stress so how would it be stressful.
You and I both know the stressors an academic setting can produce and what I'm trying to do is remove these stressors while working on myself. I've been struggling with emotional issues for almost a decade and I guess college has been effective in exacerbating these issues. I believe I'm bright but I will not reach my full potential until I do my best to work on myself.
Why are you so negative in an anonymous setting?
If you have only offers of negativity, why do you continue to speak?
You simply do not understand and it is not my job to get you to understand. It is impossible to definitively know the future. I wish you the best of luck.
You are not being realistic.
10 W's is a gigantic red flag for any med school.
You don't know enough about med school to know that DO's can be neurosurgeons (though it will be harder).
Volunteering isn't all flowers and candy. You see some pretty depressing things like people aren't going to wake up, people who can't remember their own names, family members who are very upset. If it was a cathartic experience more people would do it.
Again, depression is debilitating. If you can't get up and go to class what makes you feel like you'll be able to get up and go volunteering.
You started off asking if it would be possible to get in med school with 7 W's and people were skeptical. What makes you think 10 will make it any easier.
Why is it that you seem to think you know everything? I never said a DO couldn't be a neurosurgeon I merely said it is harder to do so. In additon, the last time I volunteered I was assured that I would have no patient contact and, I indeed, had no patient contact. I was merely assisting a trauma office in keep up to date with paperwork. Just because you got into medical school does not make you an expert concerning medical school admissions. Why don't you find something more constructive to do with your time as opposed to anonymously destroying someone's hopes. I'm not dumb or a slacker student, I simply have some issues which keep me from reaching my potential. Just because you assume you're perfect doesn't make this so. The difference between me and you is that I realize that I'm human and as a fallible being, I realize I make mistakes and have weaknesses; I'm simply try to improve my weaknesses and go on to live out my expectations. You seem like a truly detestable person.
Hm. Interesting. With depression, that's a hard thing to tackle. Everyone comes in with a different perspective on depression, and I think there's frankly a lot of grey for what is real depression. (And no, I don't know what is depression, exactly.)
That being said, I think for the OP, I found volunteering in the hospital to be very rewarding and beneficial. I couldn't say I was diagnosed with depression (but I dunno what does count and what doesn't-i'm not a psych MD) but I was having some rough times in my life and I found volunteering in the hospital to give me hope. Hope that my life isn't all that bad (Plenty of people have it WAYYY worse than I do. Who am I to start complaining when mr. doe here has a limb chopped off), and more importantly, I can help THESE people in need. I think it gave me lots of perspective being able to interact with patients. I think for me, it helped me reaffirm that medicine is my calling, for whatever its worth. Maybe it might do the same for you.
In terms of withdrawals, I'm curious about the nature of these courses. I think the mental fatigue is worrisome simply because you will need the endurance when are in med school. I agree with some of the others suggesting that you need some time away from school, and get everything worked out. Part of going the premed route means you're going to hit some bumps along the road, so i would recommend being a little more prepared for them, if at all possible. (mentally, at least)
At the end of the day, your grades are fine. the withdrawals might be forgiven if you can keep a steady streak of good subsequent semesters, but I hope that a streak can be sustained without too much strain. If you're pulling hairs just to keep it together for a semester, I feel that you may have a little more work to do prior to medical school. Again, this might require more of an adequate, honest self-assessment than simply hearing what silly things I have to say, to be frank.
Best of luck.
That being said, I think for the OP, I found volunteering in the hospital to be very rewarding and beneficial. I couldn't say I was diagnosed with depression (but I dunno what does count and what doesn't-i'm not a psych MD) but I was having some rough times in my life and I found volunteering in the hospital to give me hope. Hope that my life isn't all that bad (Plenty of people have it WAYYY worse than I do. Who am I to start complaining when mr. doe here has a limb chopped off), and more importantly, I can help THESE people in need. I think it gave me lots of perspective being able to interact with patients. I think for me, it helped me reaffirm that medicine is my calling, for whatever its worth. Maybe it might do the same for you.
In terms of withdrawals, I'm curious about the nature of these courses. I think the mental fatigue is worrisome simply because you will need the endurance when are in med school. I agree with some of the others suggesting that you need some time away from school, and get everything worked out. Part of going the premed route means you're going to hit some bumps along the road, so i would recommend being a little more prepared for them, if at all possible. (mentally, at least)
At the end of the day, your grades are fine. the withdrawals might be forgiven if you can keep a steady streak of good subsequent semesters, but I hope that a streak can be sustained without too much strain. If you're pulling hairs just to keep it together for a semester, I feel that you may have a little more work to do prior to medical school. Again, this might require more of an adequate, honest self-assessment than simply hearing what silly things I have to say, to be frank.
Best of luck.
I'm positive that if I work on myself and take some time off I can excel academically and work without issue; the rest is just a matter of luck and happenstance (and really, isn't this true of all medical school applicant applications)? I just don't understand why people are jumping down my throat for succumbing to something I've been fighting for almost a decade (which I might add I've worked to rectify). I just think my doctor and I need to discuss my situation and plan what I must do to really improve myself and prepare for the rigors of school (both undergraduate and medical school).
I'm not trying to jump down your throat about it, but I'm just saying that at the end of the day, even if you get into medical school, I think it's just something you want to haveunder control before you start boards, and even your practice.
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yes.
If you determine that medical school might not work out, it will still benefit you.
Volunteering can NEVER hurt you, for anything.
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OP, be realistic. Its nice to dream, but know your limits.
If you are meant for DO, go DO. Meaning, apply DO also and let fate determine where you get in.
Going DO will make it difficult, but I imagine it will still be extremely difficult at a MD school. They are the cream of the crop.
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I'll be an MD one day. I don't care what any naysayers think.
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Yes of course...
OP, just do what you have to do and prove us wrong.
You know what, I do not need this. I just won't frequent these forums anymore. I don't need any of you. I know my abilities and limitations. I will be an MD and to hell to anyone who say otherwise. This is all I've ever wanted. If I cannot have this, what do I have left (I might as well give up and die)?
Yes of course...
OP, just do what you have to do and prove us wrong.
so much blind optimism going on in this thread
which is extremely odd given that OP is clinically "depressed"
I hope you flunk out of medical school and wind up in a ditch (this is all you deserve).
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^^ dont pull this crap.
What is so wrong with DO? Its a viable option to become a physician.
Despite not agreeing with you on how to view people who are diagnosed as depressed, I absolutely agree with you on OP's chances. Maybe he can become a physician, but getting into an extremely competitive specialty is highly unlikely.
I wanted to be a professional bodybuilder, but that was not something I could do with my genetics. You need to be realistic with your goals or you set yourself up for a relapse if you manage to recover from your depression.
You actually seem completely unaware of your limitations. I hope you talk with your therapist about this.
That was uncalled for. He was just giving an opinion, and quite frankly an honest critique is far more helpful than someone telling you it will all be sunshine and rainbows.
Come on, seriously. This thread is getting a little bit too hostile. OP (not to sound conceited) but just follow my advice since you seemed to agree with it and like it. You also are completely okay with volunteering so definitely do that!
The other posters in this thread can be a little more compassionate, since some of the posts simply come off as blunt and cold - especially given the OP's condition. Nevertheless OP, you should take what everyone said here under strong consideration, these people know what they are talking about.
As for MD vs. DO, there is literally...literally nothing wrong with DO. They have their own residencies as well (which includes neurosurgery). After your long path, aim for DO, it will save you many years and lots of trouble. And just to give you some realistic words of comfort, not ALL MD schools are out of the question, especially later on, if you choose to amend those W's, with an SMP, or something else.
P.S. im typing this on my phone, so please ignore any errors
The other posters in this thread can be a little more compassionate, since some of the posts simply come off as blunt and cold - especially given the OP's condition. Nevertheless OP, you should take what everyone said here under strong consideration, these people know what they are talking about.
As for MD vs. DO, there is literally...literally nothing wrong with DO. They have their own residencies as well (which includes neurosurgery). After your long path, aim for DO, it will save you many years and lots of trouble. And just to give you some realistic words of comfort, not ALL MD schools are out of the question, especially later on, if you choose to amend those W's, with an SMP, or something else.
P.S. im typing this on my phone, so please ignore any errors
IM NOT AN IDIOT!
I have what it takes to earn MD worthy grades as long as I'm holistically well. Have none of you ever experienced hardship? It's utterly unnessecary to assume I "don't have what it takes." I'm not doing an SMP. I'm going from undergrad to medical school and I know this is possible and no, I'm not irrational. Nobody is perfect and I don't see how you people don't realize that.
This is indicative of a reason u will not get in. Stop being a diva. U seem to chronically see yourself as a victim.... not a quality i want in my doctor.... take responsibility.
have you any experience with neurosurg? You are borderline troll w this post.
what if those naysayers are adcoms?
Assuming you are not spinning worthless hyperbole.... this is logical 👍
This has yet to be demonstrated. U cannot give an academic IOU to an adcom and have them accept you on faith that your transcripts are not indicative of your ability
Well you have a 3.5 GPA. Which is good. Are you a junior right now? Applying this summer? So you are graduating College next year? Or when? This matters because the farther away your graduation, the higher the chances of you taking on extra classes to offset those W's. Are you taking the MCAT this spring? Next winter/spring? Do you know anything about the MCAT? You should start practicing for it as soon as you get mentally well and feel like you are ready to get exposed to complete and utter hell (MCAT).
If you get a 3.7+ GPA BY THE TIME YOU APPLY, have a 34+ MCAT, have a very healthy amount of volunteering/clinical work/etc... then there is not a doubt in my mind you can make some allopathic school... somewhere. What is your state of residence? That matters a lot as well. Will you have good LOR? Is your therapist an MD/Psy.D/PhD? If your therapist is an MD (psychiatrist), then definitely share this dilemma with him/her.
Also, I was nice to you, so I figure now is an appropriate time to be stern. While I admire your persistence and determination, as someone who wants you to succeed (altruism does exist, eh?) please don't be hard-headed. You don't know a darn thing about neurosurgeons. Idc how many bifrontal temporal craniotomies you think you can perform, at the end of the day, you can't even fathom what it is like TO BE the man holding the scalpel. And no amount of Ben Carson youtube videos is going to change that.
I've seen neurosurgeries, and I worked at a cerebrovascular lab at a top hospital in the country, and I know from experience what it is like to be an academic neurosurgeon. Everything in your life will suffer. Your girlfriend/wife will most likely leave you. And if you ever have time to reproduce, your kids will never see you. You will only see your porsche after your 40th birthday, and even then, you'll only drive it to and from your work. The notion that neurosurgeons work 80 hours a week is also very understated. It is often much much more than that, and don't get me started about the residents. I was even more set on neurosurgery than you are.... but you know what, I always reserved the right to keep an open mind. (Since any surgical specialties are closer to being related to one another than their respective medical specialties, in my case, I view it differently. So for example, even though the jobs of a neurologist and a neurosurgeon couldn't be any farther apart, I would choose neurology over any other surgical specialty just because I want to stick with neurological pathologies. However most wanna-be surgeons who choose to switch specialties, will most likely switch into another surgical specialty. idk if this makes sense). What I am trying to say is that... be determined, but be humble, open minded, not aggressive, and not hard headed!
^ Feel free to answer the premed questions about your timeline, anticipated GPA, practice MCAT scores if any, state of residence, etc...
If I get myself straight, continue to excel in my studies (i.e. good grades) and establish some worthwhile extracurriculars would I still have a shot( this is all I could possibly do)? It's not like my GPA is tanked and I'm a member of many campus organizations. I don't ask for much out of life and this is one of the few things I do want. I didn't mean to come off as someone prone to histrionics but I don't understand how a DOCUMENTED emotional issue would be a detriment to my chances (keeping in mind that I still strive for excellence after seeking help). All I want to do is get into ONE U.S. allopathic school.
U don't matter. The patients matter. A condition, documented or not, that might affect outcomes is a very good reason to deny you. How is an epileptic surgeon any worse than someone who cannot emotionally handle medicine?
I'm just a sophomore but I've completed no science courses yet (I've studied science on my own-chemistry, biology, etc and I find it interesting so I chose to major in biochemistry). In addition, I transferred to university from a CC so I thought it best to wait until taking science courses. I anticipate my final GPA will be aboutt 3.6... and above (as I said, the bulk of my remaining courses are science courses and I thoroughly enjoy science which lends itself to better marks).
I'm a Florida resident.
I'm going to start volunteering at a state funded clinic for indigent and low income citizens.
I'm a member of my university's honors program and I hope to complete an honors thesis in my last year.
Every class I've ever taken, I seem to make a good impression of my professors (one professor said students like me are the reason they began teaching). I think if I continue to be myself throughout my academic career, I should have no problem getting good LOR's. In fact, I once spoke to my department's chairperson and she talked to me for awhile about a myriad of things and she seemed very interested in my goals after college; I'm confident I could get a LOR from the chairperson.
I agree that you are right about being open minded and flexible. I've just never responded well to people tell me I can do something. Every time someone has told me I cannot do something, I worked very diligently and proved them wrong. I guess I have to learn to not let pride be my downfall.
How many of those Ws are from community college?
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Just one (but it was an unneeded literature course) which was a correspondence course but I was unaware of the requirements need to effectively complete the course via correspondence. In addtion, the drop/withdrawals date were different for this course and I only had a few days between dropping and withdrawing.
Dude... ur in serious trouble. Kudos for optimism but don't move past the point of no return while you're too busy smiling at a charging bull
I simply cannot accept that. I still have to try (that's all I had to look forward to in the future).
I didn't say not to try.
And enough w the melodrama. I wasn't just being rude when I said it is a terrible quality in a doctor. Your personality is a major part of the acceptance. And there aren't many angsty emo kids in medical school.
I know that I need to be tougher and more tenacious and I'm working on developing these qualities. I don't mean to whine and come off as someone who wants something handed to them. When I finish with my break from school I will do everything within my power to maintain my scholastic nature and I will try to be more well rounded (balance studying and down time). I still think I have a shot but I know that the number of schools I may possibly attend has diminished. There is no need to complain over an internet forum. If I want to achieve something I have to work on myself and strive to do the best I can do.
It's probably time to close this thread. There are people on this forum who have more immediate and easily remedied questions.
Thanks to those who helped!
It's probably time to close this thread. There are people on this forum who have more immediate and easily remedied questions.
Thanks to those who helped!
I believe that almost every pre-med student has spouts of depression and maybe that should not be your focus as an excuse. If I were you I would explain the in your personal statement that you lacked maturity in dealing with your depression (and that you should actually come into terms with this reality) and say you have learned from this.
Also, I am denying that you were not depressed, and that this did not play a major part in your W's, but you really need to suck it up and come to terms with reality.
Ask yourself this: If you can't make a members of SDN (people who have went through the all the same classes and application cycles) have a sympathetic view towards your situation, do you really think an admissions committee is really going to care?
Were you hospitalized at all? If you were hospitalized an adcom may have less of an issue with you dropping a course, but if the W's span from many semesters and your only explanation is that you were depressed I don't see them looking upon that favorably.
OP, if it seems like all the med students are coming out of the woodwork to trample on your dreams, keep in mind we know first-hand how rough medical school can be. It's hard enough without personal/psych issues.
What's being said here, although a bit harsh, is nothing that won't be said behind closed doors at every adcom meeting about your file. Keep that in mind; I truly hope you prove them (and us) wrong.
What's being said here, although a bit harsh, is nothing that won't be said behind closed doors at every adcom meeting about your file. Keep that in mind; I truly hope you prove them (and us) wrong.
One of my friends in university had severe BPD, she spent literally every other day in the ER or in overnight psychiatric holds. Somehow she managed to go to university and got C's or just outright had to withdraw, because she was hospitalized during a mid-term or final. Her third year she managed to get on track, visiting a social worker every week, therapy once a week, and a psychiatrist finally diagnosed her. Obviously, it wasn't an instant fix and she found herself in the hospital once or twice a month, but managed to get B's her first semester of third year. After that it was solid A's, five classes, and got a 41T on the MCAT. She volunteered on the same psychiatric floor she was secured on before, got to know all the staff, and got a recommendation from her psychiatrist when she applied to Medical School. This is her first year of a psychiatry residency. So, you're right, it's rare but it happens. The expectations are exponentially high and challenging though. Stay strong 🙂
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I think that I'll be fine with proper intervention. I know my academic prowess and tenacity will shine through and I will get into medical school someday. I will not allow my illness to dictate my future.
I find it distressing that you haven't completed a single science class, yet you have this optimistic (unrealistic) vision of the future. Take a few terms of science classes, see how you're doing, and then take a step back to access how you're going to get into medical school. You might not do as well as you think you will in these classes.
OP, you definitely still have a shot at an MD. W's aren't a good thing, but they aren't debilitating either. You just need to off-set them with excellent grades from here on out, especially in the sciences, and a good MCAT. If you can apply with a 3.6 GPA or greater, and solid EC's, you have a good shot at an MD acceptance. This is especially true if you apply your senior rather than your junior year, given that you are a sophomore. Just spend some serious time evaluating why you are doing poorly and why you are depressed, come up with a plan of attack, and don't look back.
But given that, realize that your freebies are all gone. It's true that you have a documented excuse for your situation, but unless you do a complete 180, adcoms are going to wonder if your depression is long term and debilitating. If they believe it is, and that you'll be too depressed to learn the med school material and to keep up on your responsibilities, they won't give you a shot. An chronic epileptic cannot be a heart surgeon, because the nature of his disease makes him a danger to the patient. Depression is no different. A clinically depressed physician, too upset to keep up on the latest treatments, is a danger to his patients. A sound mind and body are REQUIRED to be a doctor. Prove to adcoms that this depression will not get in your way again. It is that simple.
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why?
Here's an update:
I'm currently doing research in neuroscience but I've just started and by the time I apply, I will have about three years of research experience (mainly PCR's, Western Blots, wet lab stuff).
In addition, I've began setting up shadowing (probably an epidemiologist), volunteering at my local trauma center (little patient contact; primarily administrative stuff which allows the department to run) and I also volunteer at a local youth center for disadvantaged children. I'm positive that my supervisor at the youth center can write a glowing LOR. I'm a member of my school's chemistry club and I also go to local primary schools and tutor children in science and mathematics.
I'm in my school's honors program and, due to small class size, I believe I can obtain some good LOR.
Are my current activities sufficient? I don't want to get to bogged downed and spread myself so thin that each individual activity doesn't get my fullest fervor.
I'm currently doing research in neuroscience but I've just started and by the time I apply, I will have about three years of research experience (mainly PCR's, Western Blots, wet lab stuff).
In addition, I've began setting up shadowing (probably an epidemiologist), volunteering at my local trauma center (little patient contact; primarily administrative stuff which allows the department to run) and I also volunteer at a local youth center for disadvantaged children. I'm positive that my supervisor at the youth center can write a glowing LOR. I'm a member of my school's chemistry club and I also go to local primary schools and tutor children in science and mathematics.
I'm in my school's honors program and, due to small class size, I believe I can obtain some good LOR.
Are my current activities sufficient? I don't want to get to bogged downed and spread myself so thin that each individual activity doesn't get my fullest fervor.
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yeah those are solid.
In an attempt to rectify my past missteps, I'm trying to determine an appropriate course-load. Is it recommended to take 16-17 credit hours per semester (bearing in mind that I have no job and will have about 2 full days off per week)? I know the aforementioned course of action would be rigorous, but I really want to demonstrate that I'm not a slacker but that I'm indeed a serious student. In addition, If I took this course of action, I could matriculate to medical school at 22-23 years of age and save quite a bit of money.
I think people are being sort of harsh here. I mean, the situation definitely looks bleak, but OP is intending to do his best to rectify it.
OP, don't mess this up and show that you can handle rigorous course loads without withdrawing, and you will be in good shape.
OP, don't mess this up and show that you can handle rigorous course loads without withdrawing, and you will be in good shape.
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