85 bad minutes

[jcdoc107]

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are keeping me out of med school. Four years of ball busting hard work and 85 minutes of verbal reasoning is ruining it all for me. When you think of it this way it seems kind of messed up doesn't it? Anybody else feel this way or are in a similar situation?

 

[bella_dottoressa]

Poor thing...I have nothing really relevant to say except that I feel for you. I know tons of people have been in your very same situation. My own boyfriend struggled with verbal. Despite 11-12 science scores, he took three mcats due to verbal. But he got in, and you will too.

Everyone says there's some big correlation b/w verbal and medical school performance. I don't really see it. The person I speak of is tearing it up in medical school. Stupid verbal! 🙂 Hang in there!!

 

[idq1i]

Originally posted by bella_dottoressa
Everyone says there's some big correlation b/w verbal

Once you start school, you will see that it is indeed true. You will have to read, absorb and understand a huge volume of information in a very short time.

 

[lattimer13]

Originally posted by idq1i
Once you start school, you will see that it is indeed true. You hill have to read, absorb and understand a huge volume of information in a very short time.

BS

 

[The JockDoc]

Originally posted by idq1i
Once you start school, you will see that it is indeed true. You hill have to read, absorb and understand a huge volume of information in a very short time.

I doubt that very much, if any, of that information is written in MCAT verbal passage style.

 

[TRUE]

Originally posted by The JockDoc
I doubt that very much, if any, of that information is written in MCAT verbal passage style.

I agree, but I too have heard that of the whole MCAT, the verbal score correlates the best with your medical school performence. We can sit here trying to explain it all day though i'm not sure people can come up with good reasons for it...hehe

 

[Spitting Camel]

It's not the style guys, he said:

You hill have to read, absorb and understand a huge volume of information in a very short time.

I believe that may be true, don't you? Some people will just have to spend more time on material than others. Hasn't that always been the case anyways? If you're slow, you may struggle.

I see what you mean, idq1i 😉

 

[The JockDoc]

Ya, but how does verbal reasoning with MCAT passages correllate into assimilating science information? The VR score might indicate something in your med school future if you are going to be reading persuasive essays all the time and had to pick them apart. But you won't be. I don't see how MCAT VR = memorization/concept understanding.

 

[docmemi]

i agree. some people can get science in huge volumes, but not other passages. i bet if the vr was on sci passages, most people would do great!

i am a bio major, did amazing in all my upper division scie courses that are essentially the same as med school classes. but verbal was hard for me. i dont see a correlation.

anyway, people change, ways change, curriculums vary, etc. there are lots of factors that determine how you do in med school.

lets get some more med students to tell us if they think its true...

 

[jedirampage]

The biological sciences and physical sciences passages ARE basically verbal passages on science. All that the verbal reasoning tests is your ability to deconstruct the questions they are asking in the way that the MCAT writers intend and then answer the question from their strategically selected passage. Verbal reasoning on the MCAT is more a detective game with the test writer's intentions than a test of your reading comprehension skills. Sure if you are a slow reader you may not get to a passage or two, but you can get over a ten by skipping a passage completely.

 

[stomper627]

I dont think there is a correlation during the early part of medical school. If there is one its during your clinical years, internship, and residency, and beyond. Ive never had to read so many journals as I do now, and be able to understand what exactly is being stated. This is where reading passages may come into play. Id suggest start reading journals everyday. Get used to being able to process huge amounts of info, into a reasonable amount of info, after skim reading it, and be able to explain it to yourself (or someone else) verbally.
This helps me. I read the journal fast, then explain it to myself verbally before I have to discuss the article with my resident.
stomper

 

[ocean11]

Yeah yeah who ever sais that the verbal section will reflect how you do in med school dosn't know what they are talking about.......

I recently got in to med school with a 7 in verbal (but 12 on PS and BS).

At my univesity I took many courses like Anatomy and Physiology which were parallel to the med school student's courses (same profs too) and did very well. I also got an A+ in an English course...... so yeah......... don't let your score discourage you and you can always redo your MCAT!

 

[OrthoFixation]

It amazes me how so many inexperienced people can form an opinion on why VR is so important in medical school. Please comment after your MS1 year, or better yet, after graduation. People much more experienced have watched thousands of students apply then eventually graduate. Data (history) is the best teacher. Do not discount their methods of predicting success. As always, there are exceptions to any rule or generalization. That does not mean the academia guage of potential success in med school is flawed.

I'm not in yet, but my best guess: VR is a test of reading between the lines. Utilizing information to form opinions, thoughts, and extrapolate beyond what information is presented. Isn't this what practicing medicine is all about?

 

[jedirampage]

Orthofixation,
In a perfect world (with a perfect MCAT) that would be exactly what the verbal reasoning section would do, however that is not the case in reality. I have been teaching MCAT prep courses (in verbal and physics) for almost 3 years now and I can honestly say that there are only two determinants for how well you do on the verbal reasoning section:
1) how quickly you read
2) how well you understand exactly what the MCAT writers are looking for in their questions (there is a pattern and with practice you eventually begin to see it)
While I wouldn't completely rule out some correlation between this score and success in medical school, it would seem to be insignificant compared to the many other factors that contribute to academic achievement, such as studying habits, previous experience, and the ability to conceptualize abstract topics.

 

[Nanon]

I'm actually on my way out the door to take a practice exam, ironically enough... but here's my .02.

I'm one of those really weird people who excel at verbal. My first practice test, hung over and not caring, I got a 10. Other scores were a 5 and a 6. (Then I quit the course, cause I had too much going on that summer to concentrate on it.) Anyway, that score didn't suprise me at all. I think the reason I do well in verbal is because I read all the time, and I really enjoy reading for its own sake. I actually like the passages, for the most part. That, and I have a learning disability in math, which has kind of forced me to rely on skills that I already have in reading. And finally, if I do say so myself, I'm a fantastic skimmer. That's an important skill to have for this kind of test, because of the timing issue.

Here's what I do (besides reading really fast). I skim the questions first. I don't read them, I just look for names and general ideas. Then I read the passage, asking what each paragraph is saying. Sometimes I write a few words in the margine if it's complicated. I also underline names, main ideas, and anything italicized.

Once I'm on the questions, I read them very, very carefully. I do the process of illimination thing (cause you can almost always do this with those questions). Then I usually refer back to the passage, now nicely indexed. If I still can't figure it out, then I move on and go back when I'm done with the rest. I'll try to figure it out then if I still have time, and if I don't, then I'll make a "gut decision" about it.

As to timing, I try to spend 3 minutes reading and one minute per question. This does take a little practice, but as long as you're not trying to memorize the passage, it's completely doable. And come to think of it, maybe that's part of the problem. Most science students don't read unless it's to memorize details, which is absolutely NOT what you want to do with Verbal. You want to read those passages like you're reading a Stephen King novel, not a biology book.

Anyway, that's what I plan to do today... let you know how it works out.

Nanon

 

[stomper627]

Once again, I wll say its important for clinical education. You are responsible for self teaching/staying updated on current literature. You have to be able to understand the info in the journals and be able to correlate it clinically to your patients. Sometimes a resident/attending will only give you a few minutes to read an article and discuss with him/her the topic. Your evaluation can be dependent upon this.
stomper

 

[bruinrab]

From what I understand, one point of the MCAT verbal is not to see how good your reading comprehension is. It's to see how well you can understand material that you have no interest in and/or prior knowledge of. Some things in med school are just completely new information, in which you have no background and very little desire to learn. But you still have to know that info in a short amount of time. 😛

Maybe that's why the passages are damn boring. 🙁

 

[idq1i]

Originally posted by lattimer13
BS

🙄

Posted by OrthoFixation

It amazes me how so many inexperienced people can form an opinion on why VR is so important in medical school. Please comment after your MS1 year, or better yet, after graduation. People much more experienced have watched thousands of students apply then eventually graduate. Data (history) is the best teacher. Do not discount their methods of predicting success. As always, there are exceptions to any rule or

 

[LUBDUBB]

Originally posted by Nanon

I'm one of those really weird people who excel at verbal.
...

I think the reason I do well in verbal is because I read all the time, and I really enjoy reading for its own sake.

...

I do the process of illimination thing...

Dude, maybe you should read some more.

j/k

~Lubdubb

 

[IndyZX]

process of illimination is the best.

 

[JohnHolmes]

Originally posted by idq1i
Once you start school, you will see that it is indeed true. You will have to read, absorb and understand a huge volume of information in a very short time.

This is a common misconception. People believe verbal is the best indicator (of all subsections and gpa) of med school success--and this is true ... but it is during the 3rd and 4th years. People always offer up preclinical year information about how much you have to read and all, and I am sure verbal is a big part of this, but verbal is a better predictor of clerkship success than basic science success. Why that is, I am not sure...

Coops

 

[idq1i]

Originally posted by Cooper_Wriston
This is a common misconception. People believe verbal is the best indicator (of all subsections and

So third and fourth years are not "Medical School"? Verbal section is about the only section of the MCAT that is relevant to a medical education. Your ps/bio section scores are more indicative of how much time you will have to spend studying in your preclinical years. You do need some background, but you will be re-taught everything that you have to know.

At least once a day, a premed on this board will throw a pissy fit, complaining that the MCAT , and especially the verbal section, is irrelevant. If it really was that "irrelevant", schools would have stopped using it. Do realize that there are people in this world that know more than you. - not directed at anyone in particular, just an observation

 

[BigRedPingpong]

Hey idq1i,

You haven't answered the thread "nymc" with the question about how 3rd and 4th years get their sub I's. Also, how do students typically commute to rotations downtown? How do students cope with not getting the spot they want in the city?
thanks.

 

[idq1i]

Originally posted by BigRedPingpong
Hey idq1i,

You haven't answered the thread "nymc" with the question about how 3rd and 4th years get their sub I's. Also, how do students typically commute to rotations downtown? How do students cope with not getting the spot they want in the city?
thanks.

Sorry, I completely forgot about the 1st one. Will check - will send PM.

As for the commute: NYMC has an apartment building on 95th and third. It's within walking distance of Metropolitan hospital, and a short subway ride away from st. vincents.

 

[Raptor]

I hate to complain but I just took a practice MCAT at my school and I made a 12 on the biological science section but made a 6 on the verbal section.

 

[OrthoFixation]

Originally posted by idq1i
At least once a day, a premed on this board will throw a pissy fit, complaining that the MCAT , and especially the verbal section, is irrelevant. If it really was that "irrelevant", schools would have stopped using it. Do realize that there are people in this world that know more than you. - not directed at anyone in particular, just an observation

Amen. Lots of inexperienced experts in pre-med.

 

[Nanon]

Originally posted by LUBDUBB
Dude, maybe you should read some more.

j/k

~Lubdubb

Dude, I had nothing to say about my writing skills! I admit, I can't spell my way out of a paper bag, and I should avoid trying to put my thoughts to words before coffee, because before coffee, I don't have any useful thoughts! 😀

Just got back from the practice test... here are my prognostications on my performance:

Physical - 2
Verbal - 8 or 9
Biological - 5 or 6
Writing - M

I don't remember ANYTHING about general chemistry, apparently. I'm so hosed.

Nanon

 

[idq1i]

Originally posted by Nanon
Dude, I had nothing to say about my writing skills! I admit, I can't spell my way out of a paper bag, and I should avoid trying to put my thoughts to words before coffee, because before coffee, I don't have any useful thoughts! 😀

Just got back from the practice test... here are my prognostications on my performance:

Physical - 2
Verbal - 8 or 9
Biological - 5 or 6
Writing - M

I don't remember ANYTHING about general chemistry, apparently. I'm so hosed.

Nanon

How many questions does one have to get right to get a 2

 

[Jalby]

Originally posted by OrthoFixation
It amazes me how so many inexperienced people can form an opinion on why VR is so important in medical school. Please comment after your MS1 year, or better yet, after graduation. People much more experienced have watched thousands of students apply then eventually graduate. Data (history) is the best teacher.

Research has shown that VR corresponds best on how students perform on the USMLE step 1. The sciences don't show as much of a correlation. That's why a lot of people with 6V, 11B, 11P don't get in.

I personally believe that the poster who talked about having to read fast to keep up in school is totally correct as to how verbal would influence medical school. A lot of times you need to read long paragraphs and just pick out the best information, which very well correlates with the VR exam.

 

[Nanon]

Originally posted by idq1i
How many questions does one have to get right to get a 2

I have no idea, but I walked out of that first section feeling like I'd never, ever taken a chemistry class in my life. I think I guessed on 80% of the chemistry questions, and about 50% of the physics questions. I figure that will net me about a 2. If I'm lucky. What am I even doing here? I need to be studying about molar concentrations...

My husband just looked it up for me... you have to get 10 questions right for a 2. Sounds about right... hehehe


Nanon

 

[lattimer13]

Originally posted by idq1i
🙄

😴

 

[DrWorkNeverDone]

you know I wont be surprised if I do just as bad 🙂 Not the greatest g. chem person 🙂

 

[fun8stuff]

Originally posted by OrthoFixation
It amazes me how so many inexperienced people can form an opinion on why VR is so important in medical school. Please comment after your MS1 year, or better yet, after graduation. People much more experienced have watched thousands of students apply then eventually graduate. Data (history) is the best teacher. Do not discount their methods of predicting success. As always, there are exceptions to any rule or generalization. That does not mean the academia guage of potential success in med school is flawed.

I'm not saying that I think VR is a good predictor, but data has actually shown that high VR scores strongly correlate with high step 1 & 2 scores according to the AAMC. Of course test scores do not necessarily predict how good of a doctor you will be with complete accuracy, but you have to take into consideration what medical schools really want.

I am sure there are many people who would make damn good doctors who couldnt pass a bio 101 test for the life of them, but we do not have a way of objectively predicting these people's "medical" potential. Tests seem to be the best thing medical schools have to predict success and access skill level. Medical schools want a class who have a high average pass rate. Medical schools want people who are damn good test takers, because these damn good test takers are perceived to have damn good potential at being great doctors. When people perceive their school as being good, it brings more money, etc, etc, blah blah.. .capitalism, blah....

Not that this is necessarily right, but it is the way it is... for the most part.

 

[drlexygoat]

Been accepted to Miami and NOVA (DO school) with an 8 on verbal. I've had 6 interview offers from other MD schools.

Dude, there is hope. I promise you.