87 Pathologists Apply For Pathology PA job

[pathstudent]

I'm willing to bet that the salary above applies only to instructor-level jobs. They usually last only 1-2 years before you get a real offer for assist. Prof., which usually demands $120-200K. The more prominent institutions may require these positions before you get a real job (Hopkins/Harvard/WashU etc.)

The mean academic Assist. Professor job makes $175K/Yr, not including benefits. Of course the more desirable institutions will pay less.

//since academic profs have little need of fellowships (at least more than 1), you can think of these positions as glorified fellowships if you want.

It always seemed a little back asswards how the more prestigious institutions can pay you less. You think they would want to pay the most so they can get the best. I was taught that academics on the west coast pay the least, which I understood, as people find the west coast desirable.

But when it comes to big name instutions you are taking a slight demotion in salary for the honor of being there.

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[earthworm]

I agree that satisfied does not mean happy and certainly doesn't mean that the respondent is completely satisfied. perhaps you can be satisfied simply because your number 1 criteria was met. for me, i just wanted to find something somewhere where my spouse could work. i finally found something which is located 1-1.5 hours from a large city. I'm satisfied for the most part. salary? $130,000. that's $50,000 less than what most of my colleagues were making right out of training. i received offers that were more competitive, but they were in locations that just wouldn't have worked out for my family. so, in order to be somewhat near a city with job opportunities for my spouse, i'm settling for being significantly underpaid. i'm satisfied for the most part because my family can be together, but the salary is far from ideal. anyway, it sure beats the hell out of being away from my family or sitting at home being unemployed. my point is, that people being satisfied does NOT mean the job market is great.

 

[raider]

I agree that satisfied does not mean happy and certainly doesn't mean that the respondent is completely satisfied. perhaps you can be satisfied simply because your number 1 criteria was met. for me, i just wanted to find something somewhere where my spouse could work. i finally found something which is located 1-1.5 hours from a large city. I'm satisfied for the most part. salary? $130,000. that's $50,000 less than what most of my colleagues were making right out of training. i received offers that were more competitive, but they were in locations that just wouldn't have worked out for my family. so, in order to be somewhat near a city with job opportunities for my spouse, i'm settling for being significantly underpaid. i'm satisfied for the most part because my family can be together, but the salary is far from ideal. anyway, it sure beats the hell out of being away from my family or sitting at home being unemployed. my point is, that people being satisfied does NOT mean the job market is great.

I am very happy that people are sharing their experiences online. Talking with pathologists, in both academics and private practice,there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the market is suboptimal and the discussion to remedy it should be the foremost agenda of any organization that claims to represent pathologists.

And, no, I am not talking about a disgruntled group of slackers (some failures can be attributed to personal shortcomings but I do not know such people) but hard working and intelligent professionals who have devoted a lifetime to acquiring a skill. It is my firm conviction, that such people should be fully rewarded for their efforts. This means striving for a job market where they can have their pick, private practice or academics. Nothing less is acceptable.

 

[DIce3]

My wife is an American-graduated good university-trained triple boarded pathologist who has been in private practice for ten years. I am a solo internist trying to help her acquire an internal medicine residency to eventually join me. Let me add my views to this thread.

The pathology job market is at least as bad as the worst of these posts. The few jobs that do exist are slavery jobs compared to similar training in nearly any other field of medicine. The pathology job market has changed a good deal over the past decade and is currently in total free fall. The pathology job market will not improve for at least many years because of several exacerbating economic forces. If you are reading this and other threads and are confused, heed the warnings. Pathology is currently the absolute worst specialty of medicine to practice from both a political and an economic standpoint. Stay completely away if you have not started a pathology residency. Change specialties now if you are in a pathology residency.

 

[pathstudent]

My wife is an American-graduated good university-trained triple boarded pathologist who has been in private practice for ten years. I am a solo internist trying to help her acquire an internal medicine residency to eventually join me. Let me add my views to this thread.

The pathology job market is at least as bad as the worst of these posts. The few jobs that do exist are slavery jobs compared to similar training in nearly any other field of medicine. The pathology job market has changed a good deal over the past decade and is currently in total free fall. The pathology job market will not improve for at least many years because of several exacerbating economic forces. If you are reading this and other threads and are confused, heed the warnings. Pathology is currently the absolute worst specialty of medicine to practice from both a political and an economic standpoint. Stay completely away if you have not started a pathology residency. Change specialties now if you are in a pathology residency.

That is ominous.

 

[earthworm]

i'll also add that i have 2 fellowships from a very reputable place. the market is ridiculously saturated. however, i think other fields are struggling too. i've heard similar stories about people in anesthesiology, radiology, cardiology, even vascular surgery. i think it's difficult for a lot of doctors, unless you're in primary care.

 

[pathstudent]

My wife is an American-graduated good university-trained triple boarded pathologist who has been in private practice for ten years. I am a solo internist trying to help her acquire an internal medicine residency to eventually join me. Let me add my views to this thread.

The pathology job market is at least as bad as the worst of these posts. The few jobs that do exist are slavery jobs compared to similar training in nearly any other field of medicine. The pathology job market has changed a good deal over the past decade and is currently in total free fall. The pathology job market will not improve for at least many years because of several exacerbating economic forces. If you are reading this and other threads and are confused, heed the warnings. Pathology is currently the absolute worst specialty of medicine to practice from both a political and an economic standpoint. Stay completely away if you have not started a pathology residency. Change specialties now if you are in a pathology residency.

Out of curiosity, if your wife has been employed for ten years, why is she getting out now?

 

[2121115]

These posts are dire. Wow.

Medical students if you are reading this, be sure and know what you are getting into. Try your damnedest to match at a top program. If you aren't going to match at a top program I would seriously rethink things.

 

[smallcat]

The pathology job market is at least as bad as the worst of these posts. The few jobs that do exist are slavery jobs compared to similar training in nearly any other field of medicine. The pathology job market has changed a good deal over the past decade and is currently in total free fall. The pathology job market will not improve for at least many years because of several exacerbating economic forces. If you are reading this and other threads and are confused, heed the warnings. Pathology is currently the absolute worst specialty of medicine to practice from both a political and an economic standpoint. Stay completely away if you have not started a pathology residency. Change specialties now if you are in a pathology residency.

Oh, come on. These warnings are a bit dire. As long as we're being anecdotal here, I finished residency (5-year plan, upper tier program, good recommendations, a little research, no fellowships) 10 years ago, took 3 years off entirely to stay home with my babies, worked part-time (1-2 days/week) for another 4 years (by choice- see mommy track above), decided to look for FT work after the kids were in school full time. Within 3 months of looking (basically calling around/networking), I had 4 interviews and 3 job offers. 3 years later, I'm partner in a group I love, making good money and working 9-5 most days, 9 weeks vacation. This is not a slavery-type position: it is private practice, with a good mix of cases, and I have the opportunity to teach clinical residents. Yes, I had to move to a slightly less desirable location; yes, I got really lucky that a couple of these groups had openings just as I was looking; but I am NOT a superstar candidate. I'm a good pathologist, but there's nothing in my CV that is truly outstanding.

I check this forum once in a while, but not too often. I think it's entirely possible that the people who are disgruntled and having a hard time finding a position are the ones who post here the most and scare everyone else.

 

[raider]

Situation has gone from bad to worse in the last few years. Best of luck if you try looking for a job similar to yours "now". My understanding is based on talking with my friends who are attendings at institutions where several residents/fellows train. They all tell me that it has been increasingly more difficult to find quality jobs for "their resident/fellows" in recent years.

 

[deleted314957]

These posts are dire. Wow.

Medical students if you are reading this, be sure and know what you are getting into. Try your damnedest to match at a top program. If you aren't going to match at a top program I would seriously rethink things.

I don't think this "top program" obssesion means much. When I was hiring in the PP arena it really didn't matter much to us where you got your residency or fellowship. The main things we looked at were 1) board certification. 2) Experience ( in other than a trainee (fellow) capacity)
and 3) one's personality at the interview.

As an aside, we just had one pathologist quit and had to let another go (volume at his location could no longer support position) and both immediately got jobs. They both had LOTS of experience. Neither had "top programs" in their background.

 

[cjw0918]

I have watched graduating residents and fellows job search for the last five years, and it does seem that things have gotten progressively more difficult for newbies to find a decent gig. I think it's a different ballgame for experienced pathologists- they've already gotten their foot in the door, proven themselves, and are often better connected to the pathology community, thus finding more open opportunities. I am somewhat suspicious of groups that like new grads, as I suspect they are looking for someone inexperienced to exploit. Bottom line is that if you haven't actively looked for a job as a new grad in the last few years, I'm not sure you can really know how bad it's gotten.

 

[raider]

I have watched graduating residents and fellows job search for the last five years, and it does seem that things have gotten progressively more difficult for newbies to find a decent gig. I think it's a different ballgame for experienced pathologists- they've already gotten their foot in the door, proven themselves, and are often better connected to the pathology community, thus finding more open opportunities. I am somewhat suspicious of groups that like new grads, as I suspect they are looking for someone inexperienced to exploit. Bottom line is that if you haven't actively looked for a job as a new grad in the last few years, I'm not sure you can really know how bad it's gotten.

Completely agree with the above. I also believe it is high time this critical issue was addressed in a proper and prioritized manner by the various governing bodies and leader organizations. I believe, a slashing down of residencies did take place in the 90's (hopefully someone can shed more light on that occurence). I think it is time for a similar move now. Cutting down on the residencies will also increase the caliber of graduates and in time provide a good market envoirnment. This move will have far more important consequences than the much hyped "transformation".

 

[Entgegen]

I have watched graduating residents and fellows job search for the last five years, and it does seem that things have gotten progressively more difficult for newbies to find a decent gig. I think it's a different ballgame for experienced pathologists- they've already gotten their foot in the door, proven themselves, and are often better connected to the pathology community, thus finding more open opportunities. I am somewhat suspicious of groups that like new grads, as I suspect they are looking for someone inexperienced to exploit. Bottom line is that if you haven't actively looked for a job as a new grad in the last few years, I'm not sure you can really know how bad it's gotten.

While I don't necessarily disagree with anything you said, I just wanted to point out that what I bolded above is definitely not pathology specific. One sees this sort of thing mentioned all the time on forums of other fields (senior partners dumping on the newbies and making their lives miserable,etc.). Not that I condone such behavior or anything...I just wanted to note that it happens everywhere.

Now as to whether or not such practices are more commonin pathology is a different debate.

 

[pathstudent]

I just reread Dr. Bauer's letter in the May CAP Today. This sentence caught my eye.

Pathologist workloads have increased substantially over the years and many practices report that new hires have difficulty adjusting to the pace and to a sudden increase in diagnostic responsibility.

This may be a big part of why lucrative private practice jobs are not available to new trainees. They may be preferring to hire experienced pathologists that they know can handle the volume and pace of their practice.

 

[lurksalot]

I just reread Dr. Bauer's letter in the May CAP Today. This sentence caught my eye.

Pathologist workloads have increased substantially over the years and many practices report that new hires have difficulty adjusting to the pace and to a sudden increase in diagnostic responsibility.

This may be a big part of why lucrative private practice jobs are not available to new trainees. They may be preferring to hire experienced pathologists that they know can handle the volume and pace of their practice.

I would second this. While none of the fellows at my institution have had major difficulties finding a job they are reasonably happy with (there are always compromises), I do know that the most reputable private practice groups in my area do not hire those straight out of training. They need people with experience that can hit the ground running.

I think it may be unreasonable to expect that one's first job out of training will be the most ideal and a "forever" job.

 

[2121115]

That really highlights how outdated pathology residency training is and the lack of relevance of most resident rotations/duties. Academics have no idea what the "real world" is like and they don't know how to train someone for that. I find it hilarious when academic attendings make comments like "In private practice you'd have to do this or that" because THEY DON'T KNOW.

How many months do residents waste on medical autopsy, sitting around the clinical chemistry lab, etc? Too many, IMO.

 

[lurksalot]

That really highlights how outdated pathology residency training is and the lack of relevance of most resident rotations/duties. Academics have no idea what the "real world" is like and they don't know how to train someone for that. I find it hilarious when academic attendings make comments like "In private practice you'd have to do this or that" because THEY DON'T KNOW.

How many months do residents waste on medical autopsy, sitting around the clinical chemistry lab, etc? Too many, IMO.

I'm not convinced it's a lack of preparation per se that makes newly minted pathologists less attractive candidates for good private practice groups. It truly is lack of experience and the confidence and ability that comes with it. PP groups try to have the majority of cases signed out within 24 hours; this doesn't leave a lot of time for hand-holding. Reputable PP groups are usually affiliated with reputable hospitals and clinician groups. They expect PP groups to be on par with academic departments.

I really think fellowships that allow independent sign-out to be very good preparation; these do tend to give new graduates a leg-up. They're used to signing their name on reports; you'd be surprised how different it is when you are the responsible pathologist.

 

[path24]

Pathoutlines testimonials.....just more proof that the job market is crap and more proof to be ignored. We gotta keep those residents so they can gross.


"We received many CVs by using Pathology Outlines. Actually within several minutes of the ad being posted, I had received multiple responses."

"We have received enough candidates for 5 hospitals"

"We had well over a HUNDRED responses..."

And having seen multiple emails and letters from places saying they got 40-50+ applicants for a position.

So 87 for a PA position....why not?

Be smart and stay away from pathology. Job wise you can't make a worse decision.

 

[Ombret]

Are there any unemployed pathologists reading this thread?

I mean bona fide, board-certified pathologists who are not currently working as a pathologist?

If so, would you mind sharing some highlights of your tale of woe, including the circumstances that led to your being an unemployed pathologist?

If the job market is so terrible, then some unemployed pathologists must be sitting around in their underpants reading this forum. I am just a resident, but I don't know any unemployed pathologists and have not encountered any in my several years of being in a big training program in a city with several other training programs and going to lots of meetings. Maybe the unemployed pathologists are all incompetent, degenerate illiterates. I mean, it is hard to get into med school too, but for those who "should" be going, whatever that means, that is usually no deterrent.

 

[raider]

Are there any unemployed pathologists reading this thread?

I mean bona fide, board-certified pathologists who are not currently working as a pathologist?

If so, would you mind sharing some highlights of your tale of woe, including the circumstances that led to your being an unemployed pathologist?

If the job market is so terrible, then some unemployed pathologists must be sitting around in their underpants reading this forum. I am just a resident, but I don't know any unemployed pathologists and have not encountered any in my several years of being in a big training program in a city with several other training programs and going to lots of meetings. Maybe the unemployed pathologists are all incompetent, degenerate illiterates. I mean, it is hard to get into med school too, but for those who "should" be going, whatever that means, that is usually no deterrent.

Again it is not whether someone has a job or not, what matters is do they have a decent job. if you are willing to be a slave (work your a-- off for peanuts) you will most likely find a slavemaster in some sh-thole. If you want answers that matter, ask the right questions.

 

[Enkidu]

Again it is not whether someone has a job or not, what matters is do they have a decent job. if you are willing to be a slave (work your a-- off for peanuts) you will most likely find a slavemaster in some sh-thole. If you want answers that matter, ask the right questions.

Well, what hours and pay define a good job?

 

[Ombret]

Well, OK--any underemployed pathologists care to wow us with their tales of woe? First-hand experiences only, please.

Edit: One qualifying tale has been previously posted by earthworm (scroll up), although it sounds like s/he is not overly woebegone.

 

[pathstudent]

With the country suffering the way it is, if you have a job making six figures, you doing all right.

There might be a minute fraction of a percentage of pathologists who are not working for one reason or another, but it is nothing like what the rest of the country is facing.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

EVERY locum we have used in recent years have said they cant find anything locally except low paying jobs with Ameripath. We've been getting a lot of cold calls from pathologists concerned because their hospitals/labs have changing hands and their futures are uncertain. The biggest hospital system in my state is on a buying spree. I figure its gonna get worse because so many hospitals are losing money.

 

[Nilf]

EVERY locum we have used in recent years have said they cant find anything locally except low paying jobs with Ameripath. We've been getting a lot of cold calls from pathologists concerned because their hospitals/labs have changing hands and their futures are uncertain. The biggest hospital system in my state is on a buying spree. I figure its gonna get worse because so many hospitals are losing money.

Could you explain who you are and what you do?

Your credibility is fairly low on this forum after you said that pathologists never order unnecessary tests, but I hope you can improve it once you explain where you get your information from.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

Could you explain who you are and what you do?

Your credibility is fairly low on this forum after you said that pathologists never order unnecessary tests, but I hope you can improve it once you explain where you get your information from.

You do realize that I was joking when I said pathologists never order unnecessary tests. How could you honestly think that wasnt a joke?

 

[Nilf]

You do realize that I was joking when I said pathologists never order unnecessary tests. How could you honestly think that wasnt a joke?

Sarcasm doesn't travel well on the internet. Point well taken, none the less.

Where do you get your information from?

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

real life experience i guess

 

[zao275]

...i think it's entirely possible that the people who are disgruntled and having a hard time finding a position are the ones who post here the most and scare everyone else.

this

 

[sirenomelia]

I've worked for labcorp and the website career/hiring interface is ******ed and confusing. The online application is generic and vague and overlaps with doctors and techs, specimen accesioners, etc. Its more likely the pathologists didnt mean to apply for a PA job or it wasnt well described or as mentioned someones mom doesnt know the difference betwen a PA and a pathologist.

 

[Torsed]

I know people who are diagnostically good, hardworkers, gone to top programs, have fellowship experience, not geographically restricted and still (in June) looking for jobs. The situation is really bad.

Everyone in my residency year from a medium sized state program all got exactly what they were looking for where they were looking for it, we all did one fellowship.

I had several job offers (one was awful....120k in a crappy location) and got the area I wanted at about 180 to 200k first year. I think the lab is great and the work load is what I was looking for.

The people I know who had problems finding jobs were the ones that didn't get on the ball and start fishin' for leads. I contend that most good jobs are NOT advertised, hence best to start gettin' connected. If you are in a fellowship year, start looking in August.

 

[Enkidu]

Everyone in my residency year from a medium sized state program all got exactly what they were looking for where they were looking for it, we all did one fellowship.

I had several job offers (one was awful....120k in a crappy location) and got the area I wanted at about 180 to 200k first year. I think the lab is great and the work load is what I was looking for.

The people I know who had problems finding jobs were the ones that didn't get on the ball and start fishin' for leads. I contend that most good jobs are NOT advertised, hence best to start gettin' connected. If you are in a fellowship year, start looking in August.

Just to be clear, you did your residency at a normal state program and got multiple job offers and are now highly satisfied with your current position.

Why is it that one bad anecdote outweighs ten good anecdotes? To my knowledge everyone that posts on this forum has a job, and yet every time I read a post I begin to consider my prospects as a radiation oncologist?

 

[yaah]

Why is it that one bad anecdote outweighs ten good anecdotes? To my knowledge everyone that posts on this forum has a job, and yet every time I read a post I begin to consider my prospects as a radiation oncologist?

The psychology literature is filled with explanations for this. It is a similar reason as why many people get their news from biased sources. In addition, people tend to fear the worst, and often assume it.