A 3.3 From Harvard/Yale/Princeton worth more than a 4.0 from a state school?

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sunnyjohn said:
deadhorse.gif

LMFAO! :laugh:

Beating a dead horse. That's such an awsome smilie.

On an unrelated note, what's with all these stupid anime avatars? Is this Japan? I didn't think so. Anime. [shudder].

edit: SunnyJohn, I would also like to add that as a microbiologist, I was quite amused with your signature as well.
 
idkoop said:
anyway, most of the responses from posters defending the 4.0 state school haven't impressed me very much. i dont mean this in regards to the content - all opinions are worthwhile to entertain - but the posters from Rice/Yale/Penn have struck me as more eloquent in their communication. this probably shows up in med school interviews too, when the adcom is interviewing some kid from Chico State/UofF /XYZ craptacular state school with a 3.8.
:laugh: You're basing your judgment off a few internet posts?
 
idkoop said:
i think that is true, as long as the 3.3 has a substantial ie 32+ MCAT.

anyway, most of the responses from posters defending the 4.0 state school haven't impressed me very much. i dont mean this in regards to the content - all opinions are worthwhile to entertain - but the posters from Rice/Yale/Penn have struck me as more eloquent in their communication. this probably shows up in med school interviews too, when the adcom is interviewing some kid from Chico State/UofF /XYZ craptacular state school with a 3.8.

We've got a snob alert in sector 2.
 
riceman04 said:
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm sorry, but no I dont assume that kids who go to state schools cannot get into Ivy league type school!!! That's you putting words into my mouth. I strongly believe that state schools are not schools for kids who could not gain acceptance into a competitive private school. It is obvious that not some students and their families can afford private school tuition and come to the realization that an education is an education. Some also just choose a public school over private school simply for personal non-financial reasons. I definitely recognize this and personally do not assume that the kid who went to Cal St. L.A. is not capable of performing at my level or above it. I was only commenting on the fact that in many cases adcoms, unfortunately, do not recognize this truth.

And me saying that ASU and UofA are party schools should not be interpreted to mean that all public schools carry this stereotype.

So before you assume that I think less of public school students, I suggest you get your facts straight.

Relax, sir or madam. This was not a personal attack...I clearly stated it seemed you were assuming, not that you were necessarily so. I apologize.

In any event, I find it amusing you're asking me to get my facts straight and use the word fact above that. Not a single person on this thread has any facts that can answer the original question posed definitively.
 
Those of us in state schools may not be Shakespeare, but we're scrappy.
 
idkoop said:
anyway, most of the responses from posters defending the 4.0 state school haven't impressed me very much. i dont mean this in regards to the content - all opinions are worthwhile to entertain - but the posters from Rice/Yale/Penn have struck me as more eloquent in their communication.

😱 Did someone really just say that? If these are the types of attitudes that prevail at the nation's elite undergraduate institutions, I am even more glad I chose my state school.
 
riceman04 said:
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm sorry, but no I dont assume that kids who go to state schools cannot get into Ivy league type school!!! That's you putting words into my mouth...I suggest you get your facts straight.

tsk tsk. Always arguing w/someone. =)

Man, how was grad? I missed it and missed seeing you!
 
Consider the following:

idkoop said:
anyway, most of the responses from posters defending the 4.0 state school haven't impressed me very much. i dont mean this in regards to the content - all opinions are worthwhile to entertain - but the posters from Rice/Yale/Penn have struck me as more eloquent in their communication.

Evidence of the "eloquent" communication of a sample poster:

riceman04 said:
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

ASU=PARTY SCHOOL
UOFA=PARTY SCHOOL

Sorry riceman, I'm not trying to flame on you 😉

I just wanted to show how elitist idkoop is being. I'm sorry dude, but your views are utterly arbitrary and I've lost respect for your posts...
 
tacrum43 said:
On an unrelated note, what's with all these stupid anime avatars? Is this Japan? I didn't think so. Anime. [shudder].

Oh, come on. There aren't *that* many anime avatars here. 🙄
 
idkoop said:
give me a f'ikn break. your average toilet state school, with an MCAT average that is sub < 30 (and that's supposedly only the "top" students who make it out of the "weeding out" premed classes that made it to the MCAT stage) is going to be a joke for Ivy undergrads who are competing with classmates that score 33, 34 MCAT averages.

Really? And the basis of your comment is...? And you have taken classes at every institution and compared their difficulty?


idkoop said:
Some idiot here said something about legacies being admits to Ivy schools. meanwhile, your toilet state admits football recruits with 900 SATs.

In the bio2 class I TA'ed for, one of our linebackers would get really high grades...top 5% of class...BME major..
Your stereotypes are getting old
They recruit them for athletics, not academics...hello...


idkoop said:
and the legacy admits to harvard don't seem to drag its SAT average below, what, the 1550, 1560, that it is? at harvard, the 75% percentile SAT is a frickin' 1590 (from usnews rankings). Do you f'in have a grasp of statistics - that means the top 25% of your class has a 1590 or 1600. If you put that same proportion in an orgo class, that means 25% of the students in your f'in orgo class either had a 1590 or 1600. i doubt there's more than a couple of kids with a 1500+ in an orgo class at XYZ toilet state school undergrad.

All hail the mighty SAT!!!! I can't tell you....I don't remember ever giving a **** what other students got on the SAT. Do you have a life? Or do you constantly compare numbers and statistics of people around you and at other schools because you have nothing better to do and cannot get laid?


idkoop said:
honestly, school admission should be entirely based on the MCAT. after meeting a certain GPA cutoff, say 3.0, the GPA should be minimized as a consideration, with obvious weight added for top undergrad schools. Then weigh certain portions (ie verbal reasoning) very heavily, that way you're selecting for cognitive ability/intelligence/science skills as compared to a group across the country. Wait, that's how almost every Asian and some European countries do it! Use national examinations! this way its fair to both people who went to ivies and faced the stiffer competition, as well as the truly intelligent kids who had to go to state schools because their hs sucked ass or they didn't have their **** together in hs.


Don't go into medicine, then....since you are SO OBSESSED with this, be an ADCOM.


idkoop said:
Wait, that's how almost every Asian and some European countries do it! Use national examinations! this way its fair to both people who went to ivies and faced the stiffer competition, as well as the truly intelligent kids who had to go to state schools because their hs sucked ass or they didn't have their **** together in hs.

Assuming that they DID want to an ivy-league school, and did not get in, maybe it was b/c their parents were not rich enough to send them to a snooty prep-school? Or because they were born into a family of drug addicts and poverty...Seriously....contrary to your belief, most people aren't born with a silver spoon in their mouth.


idkoop said:
and face it, the top med schools favor ivy and other good privates/publics. columbia p&s/yale med/hms/duke are filled with ivy undergrads because a) the adcom probably went to an elite undergrad b) is frankly a little bored of seeing applicants from Chico state with 3.8's but 26 MCATs.

I bet they can't WAIT to meet you!!! And what are you considering a "top" med school? One with a certain name associated with it? I saw from your other post what you said about the kid at U of R. Rochester has a terrific program and is a GREAT med school. And I'd love to hear you argue that with me, seeing as you probably know nothing on the topic. I was born and raised there, did tons of summer research @ URMC with a MD/PhD and volunteered at Strong for 2 years. Obviously you do not know what you are talking about, because it is well-known that it is a great school
 
sandg said:
😱 Did someone really just say that? If these are the types of attitudes that prevail at the nation's elite undergraduate institutions, I am even more glad I chose my state school.

Riddle: how do you know you school is a party school?

Answer: If George Bush went there....haha :laugh:


just kidding--see, we ivys have *some* sense of humor.....seriously, we're not all that bad 🙁

I've met some super nice/chill people at Yale and would go here again in a heartbeat. And fyi, my parents don't have a ton of money, I just worked hard in high-school and won enough outside scholarships to finance me, and I choose Yale cause its really an amazing place (not because i wanted the name). So, before assuming that all ivy grads are snobs who look down on graduates from state schools, try getting to know us first 😎
 
crazy_cavalier said:
Oh, come on. There aren't *that* many anime avatars here. 🙄

Maybe, but I've been seeing yours a lot lately (not saying your posts are bad though). It's kind of creepy, I'm worried it's gonna jump out of the computer screen and latch onto me. Well, not literally worried of course (even though I did go to a state school, so who knows what kind of stupid things I might believe), but it just catches me out of the corner of my eye.
 
idkoop should apply to med schools with his 3.3 gpa, and see if most of them give a damn.

reality will hit him, and the next thing he'll probably do is pull his hair out wondering why the toilet state school students with 3.8's are getting into those schools he is getting rejected from.

there is no point trying to justify a 3.3 gpa, cuz it isn't gonna change the formulas used by the adcoms.
 
YouDontKnowJack said:
idkoop should apply to med schools with his 3.3 gpa, and see if most of them give a damn.

reality will hit him, and the next thing he'll probably do is pull his hair out wondering why the toilet state school students with 3.8's are getting into those schools he is getting rejected from.

there is no point trying to justify a 3.3 gpa, cuz it isn't gonna change the formulas used by the adcoms.


:laugh:
 
tacrum43 said:
Maybe, but I've been seeing yours a lot lately (not saying your posts are bad though). It's kind of creepy, I'm worried it's gonna jump out of the computer screen and latch onto me. Well, not literally worried of course (even though I did go to a state school, so who knows what kind of stupid things I might believe), but it just catches me out of the corner of my eye.

:laugh:

awww this cutie-pie couldn't possibly hurt you. I favor this avatar because it reminds me of one of my cousins... (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=201068&page=2 - kekeke)
 
tacrum43 said:
We've got a snob alert in sector 2.

We've got a special education kid here in sector 2 as well.

Average gpa of someone taking the MCAT is a 3.6, average MCAT score is a 24.
Now look at Princeton/MIT/Duke.
Average gpa of someone taking the MCAT is a 3.4 and the average MCAT is a 32.

Why is it that so many public schoolers turn ******ed when they have to take the MCAT? Who do you think gets such horrific MCAT scores w/ bloated gpa's? It obviously isn't kids from top schools and you know it. Averages for MIT/Duke/Princeton etc have been posted on sdn in the past.

Prowler is an absolute fool who spouts LIES about top schools that he couldn't get into and knows nothing about. I knew PLENTY of people who applied to medical school w/ <3.0 gpa's at Duke and have a recommendation from the premed advisor. In fact, the only people I met who didn't get good a good rec from the premed advisor all had GOOD numbers (>3.5, >30), but did not give adequate evidence that they wanted to be a doctor. Yet another weedout process public schoolers don't have. Do you realize how hard it is to apply from Duke without your premed advisor's rec, even when you have a 3.7/35+ (I've watched two students BARELY squeeze into medical school b/c of this).

If this process were soley determined by MCAT score, you would get even MORE students from top schools filling medical schools. I only work for a MCAT company so I actually see which students get the highest scores on their exams (and guess what, the vast majority aren't from public schools!)

And may I remind you. I have gone to both Duke for 4 years and a small state school. I worked 25 hrs / week among other things at the state school w/ 15credit hours of upper level biology (ecology, genetics, physiology, histology, biochem II, genes and signal, epidemiology, and developmental bio). 4.0. Even if you include my job at the state school, I still did more work at Duke and got crappier grades. Funny how all the state schoolers talk up their work load... yet almost every professor I talked to at this state school admitted that the work was vastly below schools like Duke and Harvard.

In case you missed all of life's lessons, let me repeat one for you. LIFE ISN'T FAIR AND WE ARE NOT ALL EQUAL. Sure you can be a standout anywhere, but don't try to compare the average student at podunk u to the average student at harvard or any top school. It's an absolute disgrace.
 
In the bio2 class I TA'ed for, one of our linebackers would get really high grades...top 5% of class...BME major..
Your stereotypes are getting old
They recruit them for athletics, not academics...hello...

An exception does not make the rule. Sure, there may be smart linebackers somewhere, but all things being equal, id bet you find them at an elite private, not at a Big Ten party school. My generalization does apply though - the kids who compete in an elite environment, will, as a group, outclass those kids from a school like FSU where basically everyone gets in.


All hail the mighty SAT!!!! I can't tell you....I don't remember ever giving a **** what other students got on the SAT. Do you have a life? Or do you constantly compare numbers and statistics of people around you and at other schools because you have nothing better to do and cannot get laid?


The SAT is a proxy for other things, namely ability to process and sort through information, etc.


Don't go into medicine, then....since you are SO OBSESSED with this, be an ADCOM.

its just hilarious to stir up premeds :laugh:


Assuming that they DID want to an ivy-league school, and did not get in, maybe it was b/c their parents were not rich enough to send them to a snooty prep-school? Or because they were born into a family of drug addicts and poverty...Seriously....contrary to your belief, most people aren't born with a silver spoon in their mouth.

all the top-15 schools meet 100% of need with financial aid (mostly grant aid btw). Give me a f'in break, money's not gonna be a factor for whether a poor kid ends up attending (it may be a factor why they *GET IN*, but that's something ive already addressed - if they end up at a local public because of that, but still do well *on the MCATs*, that's fine. These are people that should be doctors. you're much more likely to find an upper-middle class slacker or BMW-driving fraternity rockhead at FSU (i'm assuming this is your school) than at elite undergrads, because those schools accept on brains. C'mon now, be honest.

anyway, its the *******es that get the high GPAs, but suck on the MCATs that still end up attending med school that concerns me, because there are far more qualified people than them that are precluded because of a low GPA. As I said, MCATs should be weighed far more than it is. At 99% of the schools in the country, you really don't know what the GPA is actually worth or means. I have taken math/science courses at a state univ and math/science courses at an elite undergrad - indeed, i even took one particular science course over again at the latter. that course was 10x better taught at the elite undergrad, and even harder to get an A in.


I bet they can't WAIT to meet you!!! And what are you considering a "top" med school? One with a certain name associated with it? I saw from your other post what you said about the kid at U of R. Rochester has a terrific program and is a GREAT med school. And I'd love to hear you argue that with me, seeing as you probably know nothing on the topic. I was born and raised there, did tons of summer research @ URMC with a MD/PhD and volunteered at Strong for 2 years. Obviously you do not know what you are talking about, because it is well-known that it is a great school[/QUOTE]

ok, you've impressed me. 🙄 . UofR is more like the last choice school for good premeds at elite schools (only the 3.3 GPAs go there) - the 3.0s unfortunately have to attend FSU Med and live in Tallahassee for four years.
 
Dr.Giggles said:
I wouldn't trust a 3.3 from Harvard. Essentially that person is a ****** to get a 3.3 considering 70% of the class gets an A- or A due to grade inflation. In state schools 70% of students do not get an A or A-. A friend of mine took Calc I at Harvard over the summer. He got an average of 85 on the exams and still got an A, and this was a guy who admitted he sucked ass in math and got a B in a physics summer program at Johns Hopkins.
Funny how nobody was outraged by your ridiculous statement, yet when I make a slanderous state school comment, people start whining.

25th%ile at Harvard = 1400 SAT.... How many state schools have their 95th%ile scoring a 1400 on their SAT. Maybe Berk and Umich, and thats it.

My comment holds, if you get <1300 SAT or <28MCAT you're essentially a ****** b/c you would also be much less academically adept than the bottom 30% at Harvard.

Why did people not get offended by the Harvard comment? It was very similar to what I said. Gee thats right, it's only kosher to make insulting comments about students at top schools that have no basis in reality b/c if they disagree and use statistics like the Princeton website they're nothing more than adcom-poser, pretentious, med-wannabe, snobs.

Or it could just be that you guys are jealous. Funny.

BTW, I only started posting on SDN AFTER I graduated from Duke and while I attended my state school b/c I actually had the free time. Noticing the ridiculous number of posts by state school students pretty much proves my piont about the fact that state schoolers have too much free time on their hands.
 
Loco Loki said:
According to this, graduates from Chico State score an average of 38 on the MCAT, with 10% getting a 43 or above. Also, they have bigger penises.


Well it is true...
 
Peterock said:
Funny how nobody was outraged by your ridiculous statement, yet when I make a slanderous state school comment, people start whining.

25th%ile at Harvard = 1400 SAT.... How many state schools have their 95th%ile scoring a 1400 on their SAT. Maybe Berk and Umich, and thats it.

My comment holds, if you get <1300 SAT or <28MCAT you're essentially a ****** b/c you would also be much less academically adept than the bottom 30% at Harvard.

Why did people not get offended by the Harvard comment? It was very similar to what I said. Gee thats right, it's only kosher to make insulting comments about students at top schools that have no basis in reality b/c if they disagree and use statistics like the Princeton website they're nothing more than adcom-poser, pretentious, med-wannabe, snobs.

Or it could just be that you guys are jealous. Funny.

BTW, I only started posting on SDN AFTER I graduated from Duke and while I attended my state school b/c I actually had the free time. Noticing the ridiculous number of posts by state school students pretty much proves my piont about on the fact that state schoolers have too much free time on their hands.


this post is exactly on target.
 
State schools accept legacies all the time, particurarly the top ones like UVA, Berk, UMich, etc. I have tutored multiple legacy children who did not have the numbers to get into UNC yet daddy moneybanks has helped them get in. Is anyone ******ed enough to believe that money talks only at elite universities?

State schools accept MORE athletes AND generally lower academically achieving athletes (duke's football team might have the highest SAT ave and graduatoin rate in the ACC, but they still suck. State schools usually have stronger sports programs and give up academic standards.)

Enough with the equality ideas, colleges - both state and private are mostly full of middle class students. This idea that ONLY rich students fill up ivy league schools is unfair when the kids at top state schools are no different in socioeconoimc background (2nd/3rd tier state schools are different).
Most of the people who are bitching went to their state's figurehead school (ie UVA, University of Arizona, Umich, etc). Deep down you don't believe that the other "lesser" state schools in your area are as good as your school, afterall, they couldn't even get into your school. Why do you pull the elitism card out only when it serves you?

Most of the students on this website who play up state schools would trade in at least one kidney, if not both to go to a top 10 medical school.

State schools lack the competition that students from top school's face for research, great grades, and extracurricular activies. Look, you went to your state school and you had a lot of fun and got to slack, don't try to steal the rewards of others' who worked harder than you or have more talent.
 
sandg said:
Relax, sir or madam. This was not a personal attack...I clearly stated it seemed you were assuming, not that you were necessarily so. I apologize.

In any event, I find it amusing you're asking me to get my facts straight and use the word fact above that. Not a single person on this thread has any facts that can answer the original question posed definitively.


regardless of what other people were saying (which I agree in many cases is baseless), I thought you were directing an assumption towards me when you said "you and many others on this thread" (or something like that). Sorry, I am really emotional about all facets of education (not sure why though).

But really, if there was a pub vs. priv. univ. academic competition (that took into account school size diffs) one would not be able to predict the winner.
 
riceman04 said:
regardless of what other people were saying (which I agree in many cases is baseless), I thought you were directing an assumption towards me when you said "you and many others on this thread" (or something like that). Sorry, I am really emotional about all facets of education (not sure why though).

But really, if there was a pub vs. priv. univ. academic competition (that took into account school size diffs) one would not be able to predict the winner.

imho, a class at rice has enough brainpower to take on and destroy 99.9% of the publics in the country.
 
MadameLULU said:
tsk tsk. Always arguing w/someone. =)

Man, how was grad? I missed it and missed seeing you!

lol
I get very scrappy w/ folk (a least lately). I guess people just probably assume I am some mean jacka**. But I am really nice when I am not rubbed the wrong way. so, where ru going next yr?

Maybe if I am in H-town again before school starts for you again then we can chill and catch up.

cya
 
idkoop said:
imho, a class at rice has enough brainpower to take on and destroy 99.9% of the publics in the country.

Everyone here appreciates and values your opinion. Please, continue to enlighten us with your incredibly insightful observations.
 
This thread is getting so stupid and useless. I vote we close it.

Although, in retrospect, it has been a pretty useful thread. Now I have three recent/new additions to my ignore list. Hooray for not having to read posts made by narrow-minded, elitist trolls!!
 
idkoop sounds like a troll....why do u guys even bother relpying to his post?






IN BEFORE THE LOCK! 🙂
 
idkoop said:
My generalization does apply though - the kids who compete in an elite environment, will, as a group, outclass those kids from a school like FSU where basically everyone gets in.

you're much more likely to find an upper-middle class slacker or BMW-driving fraternity rockhead at FSU (i'm assuming this is your school) than at elite undergrads, because those schools accept on brains. C'mon now, be honest.

Why don't you be honest, lol. Who knows more about my school? You or me? Yes, there ARE PLENTY of them here. But if you read the other post, genius, I go to a LARGE and DIVERSE school. There are people of all types. There are *****s, yes. There are people who are smart as hell, yes. But since you brought it up... Are the "fraternity rockheads at FSU" applying to medical school? Yes. Do they get into "top medical schools?" Yes. I don't know too many frat kids, but it just goes to show you that your generalizations are ridiculous and uncalled for. This kid I know in Pi Kappa Alpha got accepted to Columbia, AND Duke, and several others I can't remember. But he was rejected from UF... "a lowly public school." How do you explain that? Are you going to be in his class next year? Doubt it!
http://fsu.edu/profiles/braxton/


idkoop said:
anyway, its the *******es that get the high GPAs, but suck on the MCATs that still end up attending med school that concerns me, because there are far more qualified people than them that are precluded because of a low GPA. As I said, MCATs should be weighed far more than it is. At 99% of the schools in the country, you really don't know what the GPA is actually worth or means. I have taken math/science courses at a state univ and math/science courses at an elite undergrad - indeed, i even took one particular science course over again at the latter. that course was 10x better taught at the elite undergrad, and even harder to get an A in.

Well I guess that your single experience in your single classes at 2 single schools confirms everything to a single-minded person like you. And about the MCAT. I'd rather have them look at my GPA more. And that is only because I'd rather have them measure my abilities based on 4 years of work than on an 8 hour test. Get sick, nervous, poor test center, can't sleep, oversleep....anything that can happen to decrease or ruin your test scores is huge. What you do in 4 years is more significant than what you do in 8 hours. They take that into account, as they should. I think that they have a reason for doing things the way that they do, and that they could care less what you think.


idkoop said:
ok, you've impressed me. 🙄 . UofR is more like the last choice school for good premeds at elite schools

I wasn't trying to impress you. I was simply explaining that firsthand I know: the quality of the research that comes from there, the quality of their facilities, their reputation, the friendly/welcoming attitude of the campus and students, the willingness of the faculty to help, where students go when they leave there, etc. I'm not ignorant like you. I am not going to sit here and make statements about schools, when all I know about them is a statistic. People come on this board for help and advice, not for your pissy attitude and condescending "my school is better than yours" argument when you are in no place to judge them. You need to go back to whatever "elite school" you hail from, whatever "elite school" delivers douchebags like you to the world.


idkoop said:
(only the 3.3 GPAs go there) - the 3.0s unfortunately have to attend FSU Med and live in Tallahassee for four years.

Well....I guess I'd pack for Rochester if I were you then :laugh:
Hopefully you won't have to "come to FSU Med and live in Tallahassee." An uptight, miserable person such as yourself would not fit in here. I don't think it is unfortunate to live here...right in the middle of New Orleans, PC, Miami, Atlanta...summer all year....we love it.
 
when i applied for med school, i got rejections left and right. You just can't predict how they'll accept students.
so, comparing gpa's doesn't do ****.
They can take a 3.9/32 public student over your 3.5/33 ivy ass, and all you can do is cry about it. Is the ivy student better than the public student in this case? Marginally, if not at all.
95% of the kids who get into med school are well qualified in one way or another. When you fools finally get into med school, you will see that the public school student sitting next to you can easily kick your ass on exams.
Many students wonder why they get their asses kicked by those classmates who scored lower than they did on the mcat.
You guys should stop comparing numbers right now, because once you get into med school, they won't really matter anymore.
idkoop is just an wannabe elitist and a school bashing f**got.
 
wanted to say that Chico State rocks before the thread got locked...
 
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