A bad associateship...

[artistmind]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Hi guys, how long would you say one should stay in a less than ideal/bad associateship that’s not meeting their goals, that’s unpredictable, before looking for a new job? Should one just give it sometime maybe things will get better, or just leave ASAP? What are legit reasons to leave? Would like to hear your experiences and opinions on this. Thanks in advance.

 

[allDAT]

There are a lot of variables. What is bad about the position?

 

[artistmind]

Long hours, see too many patients, never get out on time, no overtime pay, unpredictable schedule, very disorganized, unprofessional, shady things going on, manipulation, lies, dishonesty, etc...too much BS to write lol

 

[yappy]

From what you describe I would leave as soon as possible. Find another job and then once you get your start date tell your employer you quit. Look for an associateship that offers you something; mentorship, money, business practices, good work environment etc. Do ownership if you feel like you're ready.

 

[allDAT]

Long hours, see too many patients, never get out on time, no overtime pay, unpredictable schedule, very disorganized, unprofessional, shady things going on, manipulation, lies, dishonesty, etc...too much BS to write lol

Well, it doesn't sound like you have found a good situation, but I'll add some commentary.

Dentists are exempt which means we don't qualify for overtime (at least in CA where I practice).
Most dentists are paid a percentage of collections. Some dentists are paid a base salary + a percentage of adjusted production or collections. If you are just paid hourly or salaried, you should probably work for a good FQHC where you get great benefits.

Since our compensation is depends on doing dentistry, it's not uncommon for us to skip lunch and stay late in order to meet our own goals. That does not mean missing lunch and staying late should be routine, but the reality is that if you are not producing dentistry, your compensation should reflect your collections.

If you have to leave the office at a certain time every day because of other obligations, you should discuss that with your employer.

Most associateships fall short of the associate dentist's expectations, and that's why they typically only last 12-24 months before one of the parties decides to move on to something else.

I went through 2 associateships quickly when I graduated in 2015. One lasted 3 weeks, another 6 months. I pulled the plug on both of them without having a position lined up, and that's what I recommend if you have some savings to support yourself during the transition (if you're going to look for something new, I think it is best to put 100% of your time and effort into finding a better situation for you and your family unless you can cut back to 1 or 2 days at your current position).

Regarding patients per day - the volume of patients you see per day depends on the type of practice you're in. How many do you see now, and when did you graduate?

 

[Deep Impact]

I don’t like the advice of leaving without lining up the next gig. In most cases, credentialling can take some time even after finding a job. You have to be willing to quit and have no salary for potentially up to 3-5 months and have enough saved to pay the student loans etc. I’d suck it up until I have something solid. But every situation is unique I suppose.

 

[Saddleshoes]

Move on!
There is no shame in leaving on your own terms.

 

[realman]

Well, it doesn't sound like you have found a good situation, but I'll add some commentary.

Dentists are exempt which means we don't qualify for overtime (at least in CA where I practice).
Most dentists are paid a percentage of collections. Some dentists are paid a base salary + a percentage of adjusted production or collections. If you are just paid hourly or salaried, you should probably work for a good FQHC where you get great benefits.

Since our compensation is depends on doing dentistry, it's not uncommon for us to skip lunch and stay late in order to meet our own goals. That does not mean missing lunch and staying late should be routine, but the reality is that if you are not producing dentistry, your compensation should reflect your collections.

If you have to leave the office at a certain time every day because of other obligations, you should discuss that with your employer.

Most associateships fall short of the associate dentist's expectations, and that's why they typically only last 12-24 months before one of the parties decides to move on to something else.

I went through 2 associateships quickly when I graduated in 2015. One lasted 3 weeks, another 6 months. I pulled the plug on both of them without having a position lined up, and that's what I recommend if you have some savings to support yourself during the transition (if you're going to look for something new, I think it is best to put 100% of your time and effort into finding a better situation for you and your family unless you can cut back to 1 or 2 days at your current position).

Regarding patients per day - the volume of patients you see per day depends on the type of practice you're in. How many do you see now, and when did you graduate?

Actually not all dentists are exempt! If one is getting a fixed salary then he is likely exempt. BUT if he is getting paid hourly, then he is non exempt.

 

[artistmind]

If a dentist is getting paid a daily base minimum would they qualify for overtime or would they be exempt?

 

[allDAT]

Actually not all dentists are exempt! If one is getting a fixed salary then he is likely exempt. BUT if he is getting paid hourly, then he is non exempt.

If you’re paid hourly, you might not be exempt in some states. But almost none of us are paid hourly, it’s typically a daily base salary that is high enough to kick us into exempt status (the salary does not need to be very high in most states).

 

[allDAT]

If a dentist is getting paid a daily base minimum would they qualify for overtime or would they be exempt?

Look into your state labor laws. In general, no. Your daily salary should put you over the weekly/monthly earnings threshold even if you’re just working 2 days a week at an office.

Each states laws are a little different. I’m in CA.

Dentists get paid more by producing more, not necessarily by staying at work longer. So if you’re working more, and collecting more, you should be getting paid more. If your working longer but collecting less, you’ll be paid less.

 

[Rambunctious]

Long hours, see too many patients, never get out on time, no overtime pay, unpredictable schedule, very disorganized, unprofessional, shady things going on, manipulation, lies, dishonesty, etc...too much BS to write lol

Sounds like Denti-Cal

 

[Frychicken]

I’d leave yesterday.

 

[2TH MVR]

Leave professionally. Give your 2 weeks notice. Don't burn a bridge. Thank them for the opportunity. Ask the current employer if you could use them as a future reference.

 

[charlestweed]

OP, a couple of things you should know before you quit:

Long hours. That's because you are new to your job. With more experience, you will learn to manage the chairtime better, you will come up with more clinical tricks to help you do things more efficiently so you can go home ontime.

Seeing too many patients. Well, that's why busy offices like this one need associate dentists. Slow offices don't hire associates....and if they do, they only need part time position....and they can cut your hours/days when they are unable to fill the appt book. Isn't it better to have a constant supply of patients that allows you to have a constant flow of income? Another benefit of working at a busy office is you see more patients and learn much more. My wife's friend took over her dad's GP practice right after graduation....and she got used to the slow schedule. She later sold her practice (because it didn't do well) and got an associate job at my wife's boss' practice. My wife's boss had to let her go a month later because she was slow and she was also very weak in diagnosing and tx planning. Fortuntely, her husband is a very successful periodontist. She is now a full time stay home mom.

Unpredictable schedule is the nature of general dentistry and you must accept this. A 15-minute filling appointment can turn into a 2-hour RCT/crown prep/crown impression appointment because the depth of cavity is larger than what the xray shows. There is an emergency walk-in patient that you have to see in addition to treating the patients who are on the appt book etc. It does not only happen at busy corp offices but also at your own office (when you have one) as well. Some days are busy and some days are slow. On some days, you have very few patients in the morning (because most people work) but are overbooked in the afternoon and late evening.

Very disorganized. Well, it's hard to stay organized when the office has a lot patients that are not on schedule (ie emergency, walk-ins etc). It happens in private practices as well. When you have your own office, you can't just say no to the walk-in patients and let them go see your competitor down the street. You'll need to learn to multi-task so your assistants can perform other important tasks to help the clinic flow smoothly.

Shady things, lies, dishontesty etc. It's your license that you have to protect. You can always say no to do things that you think may jeopardize your dental license....and the manager cannot do anything about it. Most of the time, the associate dentists were let go not because they reject doing shady stuff but because they were slow and didn't produce. Most corp offices don't want to get in trouble with the law and with the dental board for doing shady things either....especially in treating medicaid patients.

Do you have student loan to pay back? Do you have kids to support? Are you the main income earner in the family? How are you going to pay your bills after you leave this job? Do you have another job lining up?

You will never be 100% happy with your associate job because there are a lot of things that are outside of your control such as work hours, patient scheduling, supplies, staff hiring/firing etc. Just learn as much as you can from your associate job and then open up your own office so you can do whatever you want. Even when you have your own office, there are also a lot of things that you don't want to do but have to do them such as working on the weekends, staying late to do an emergency RCT, filling out insurance forms etc....you have to do all of these in order to to get paid, in order to earn your patients' trust, in order to get more word-of-mouth referrals....and grow your practice.

 

[Extirpator]

definitely don’t stay in an office doing shady stuff... you won’t change them and they won’t like you pushing back when they’re used to working with less judicious dentists.

If loans are the issue, then change to IBR and take a paycut to get into a better position