a bad LOR?

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Dr_Dan_the_man

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I often see people on this site suggesting that someone may have done badly in the application process because of a bad LOR.

Which got me thinking... what kind of prof would really write that kind of letter?
When you say "bad" LOR do you just mean mediocre... or would someone actually write something like "I am not confident that Mr X is a suitable candidate for medical school"

Seriously tho, if I had nothing nice to say about someone, I would probably just refuse to write the letter. ... LOR stands for letter of RECOMMENDATION... doesnt that mean if you're writing one you are by definition recommending that person for medical school?

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LOR also stands for letter of reference
 
I personally know someone who ended up getting bad LORs. She had some MAJOR personality issues, and alienated tons of people. Seriously, whenever I mention her name to anyone from my school, they get this look of disgust on their face - it seems that the girl managed to negativelly affect every single person in her way. Anyway, she made the same impression on professors (rude, disrespectful, argumentative), and when she went to ask for LORs to apply to grad school, they were all refusing to write letters for her, because no one actually wanted to have their name associated with her. She wasn't able to find anyone else, so she kept pressuring these profs into writing the letter. Since no one wanted to mar their name by writing a fake positive rec letter, they were honest in their letters, and she didn't get into ANY of the 8 grad schools she applied to, even though her grades/test scores were fine. Everyone else who applied got into at least half of the schools they applied to.

She is still confused as to why she never got in...she's absolutely in denial about the way she acts. Anyway, the reason I know this is because I'm friends with one of the profs who was involved.
 
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bad lor = mediocre lor. if these references aren't glowing endorsements, they're seen as negative.

for example, "Susy B. Student was a good student who will make a competent physician" says positive things, but i would still view it as bad. after all, the student can (kind of) choose her lor writer. if this is the BEST lor she can come up with, it makes me wonder what the average professor thinks of her.
 
Sometimes students have a hard time getting LOR's so they get professors they barely know to write generic "canned" letters based on their class grade or attendance. I remember hearing about how prominent this is from a premed advisor of mine and that many medical schools generally see these letters negatively as useless material, since they don't reference the candidate as a person.
 
This is why when you ask for LORs you should ask your potential writer if they would be willing to write an OUTSTANDING LOR for you (vs. something generic). So when you are asking people for letters, ask those profs/supervisors who know you well and who actually like you.

Some people work on principle...I know from some of the graduate students of professors who would write an honest letter to the schools' admissions' office telling them that such-and-such person was a bad match for the school and should not be seriously considered.
 
Granted, sometimes some schools ask for 6 LORs which is a lot, I don't know about you, but I didn't really have close relationships with more than 2 of my professors. But what I did was find professors who's classes I honestly enjoyed and got a lot out of, then had a brief 15 minute sit down with them to talk about my application and why I chose them (basically I said why I thought the things/skills I learned in their class would make me a better physician). And then I would leave them with a small packet of materials that included a one page letter of intent.

Hopefully all that work translated into some good LORs :) But I'll never know, sigh.
 
A bad LOR could also reference a pre-med committee letter. If your school has one, and the med school you're applying to requires it, then I think the committee has to provide one. Thus, if they don't think you're ready, they'll just say that in the letter and be done with it. If they want to maintain their integrity, they have to give good recs for good candidates and poor recs for poor candidates.
 
A bad LOR could also reference a pre-med committee letter. If your school has one, and the med school you're applying to requires it, then I think the committee has to provide one. Thus, if they don't think you're ready, they'll just say that in the letter and be done with it. If they want to maintain their integrity, they have to give good recs for good candidates and poor recs for poor candidates.

A school's pre-med committee doesn't have to write you a letter. Usually they'll just refuse to sponsor candidates they think are not qualified for medical school.

I don't think a generic LOR is necessarily a bad LOR. It's just not going to make much of a difference. Some schools require LORs from every post-HS institution you attended, some have a very high LOR requirement. Especially for students that go to very large public institutions, the LORs they get might not be very detailed because their classes might have 300-400 people, or even 80-100 for upper division. Obviously this requires more effort to know the professor but even then, they won't have as close of contact with faculty unless they are doing research with them as students in a small LAC. If somewhat generic LORs put students at a huge disadvantage, going to large, research focused institutions would be a big disadvantage when it comes to med school apps, and obviously, it isn't.
 
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Much of the time, if not all, an apathetic LOR is just as harmful. Med schools do not want to see a LOR where the professor just writes that "[Student x] received an A in my class, which dealt with [said material]" and that's it. I think the point of a strong LOR is to indicate how that student learned difficult concepts and approached different topics. It's also important for the professor to articulate how that student deals with others and handles the various stressful moments of college life, such as those dealing with taking a bunch of tough classes at the same time. The best way for a professor to convey this message is by knowing the student well and by having a genuine confidence that they will succeed in medical school. If that is not the case, then a negative or impersonal LOR results which medical schools may not look to favorably upon. This may play a seriously harmful impact on medical schools that are already unsure about a particular applicant; this may catalyze a rejection or hold placement.
 
A lot of the time, referees will ask for the student's personal statement and resume, and if they don't you might want to give it to them anyways, because it makes writing letters much easier.

Much of the time, if not all, an apathetic LOR is just as harmful. Med schools do not want to see a LOR where the professor just writes that "[Student x] received an A in my class, which dealt with [said material]" and that's it. I think the point of a strong LOR is to indicate how that student learned difficult concepts and approached different topics. It's also important for the professor to articulate how that student deals with others and handles the various stressful moments of college life, such as those dealing with taking a bunch of tough classes at the same time. The best way for a professor to convey this message is by knowing the student well and by having a genuine confidence that they will succeed in medical school. If that is not the case, then a negative or impersonal LOR results which medical schools may not look to favorably upon. This may play a seriously harmful impact on medical schools that are already unsure about a particular applicant; this may catalyze a rejection or hold placement.
 
I agree with UFgrad00. If your particular school doesn't have committee letters then you're kind of hard pressed to find several professors who know you well enough to write sparkling references. Profs are pretty busy people, so for them to take the time to write anything about you is already a task for them, so for someone to go out of their way to actually write a "bad" letter you'd have to tick them off pretty bad in the first place. I do know a lot of premeds are so hot-up for LORs they're almost willing to settle for anything just to have a complete file.
Case in point: someone I knew from undergrad asked his chem prof. for a LOR. The guy told him he didn't know him at all from the 200 or so people in his class, so the only he would say is that to his best knowledge ______ wasn't a convicted fellon and got X grade in my class. He actually went ahead and asked for one anyway just to be complete. So obviously make sure your recommendation comes from someone you're sure will at least write something positive about you.
 
For most people, it's just hard to find a professor to "bond" with. I mean, how often in a science class are you going to have less than 50 people? 100? 200? Some professors, of course, make themselves much more available than others to get to know them.

Oh, and for most people, I'd honestly say that their non-science letter is their best letter. I know mine is.
 
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For most people, it's just hard to find a professor to "bond" with. I mean, how often in a science class are you going to have less than 50 people? 100? 200? Some professors, of course, make themselves much more available than others to get to know them.

Oh, and for most people, I'd honestly say that their non-science letter is their best letter. I know mine is.

Maybe I just go to a small school, but most of my classes now (not immunology or micro) are hardly ever over 30 people. Hooray for those specialty classes no one wants! :D

Edit for clarity: Smaller classes would seem to work out better for LORs, if only for the more frequent contact with the professor.
 
I have heard of cases of sabotage by professors for petty reasons.
Unfortunately many schools only look at LOR's after interviews, and this could put a candidate on an expensive and emotional roller coaster.

If you get interviews, and no aceptances, it may be your interview style or negative letters. If you go a second round, ask for new letters.

1% of LOR's for medical school admissions are overtly negative. Just one such letter in your file is a kiss of death with many adcoms.

A blase letter will neither help or hurt. A negative one could be a killer.
 
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okay...

one of my prof wrote that I have a small issue which is being a bit quite..

i consider that a negative statement.

Is this bad??
 
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