A bit afraid of the stigma

[LucidMind]

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Hi guys...it's my first post (hurray!!)


Anyways, I was recently accepted into Brigham Young University's clinical psychology PhD program. It really matches my clinical and research interests. However, I was wondering if going to a predominantly and well-known LDS-Mormon school might affect my future as a clinician. I am clueless as to how things work after graduate school, but I was wondering if future clients or employers may see that I got my PhD from BYU and have second thoughts (or at least stereotypes).

Also, I am pretty sure I will get accepted into Palo Alto University's PsyD program (Stanford Consortium). So my options are either BYU, Palo Alto, or stay in my current job for another year and apply again (retaking the GRE of course too!). What do you guys think?

I would love any input you guys can give me. Thank you so much in advance for the help!

 

[psycecream]

If you understand what life would be like at BYU (if you are either LDS or have spoken extensively with LDS people) and you still want to go, it would be the preferable path financially. The difference could be as much as six figures when you consider Palo Alto cost of living on top of tuition.

There are BYU PhDs in many different settings. Yes, some sites might discriminate. But the Clinical Psych PhD there is APA accredited and secular. (The school is not, but the program is.) They have a respectable match rate and place students at good internships and postdocs. And there are some excellent researchers there.

I'm not a BYU grad but I'm very familiar with the school and I have friends who are graduates. They work in a variety of settings (academic, clinical, VA and Hospital) around the US.

 

[futureapppsy2]

OP: Are you LDS yourself or have you lived in a heavily Mormon community before? From what the BYU students and grads who I know have said, BYU can be a big culture shock, and it definitely has definite expectations and requirements for its students than do other universities, especially in terms of the Honor Code. Like pragma said, it's a solid program in terms of reputation, faculty, funding, etc., but I do think BYU is a program where the larger university culture can really come into play.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

people will be more biased against the Stanford PsyD than the BYU PhD.

As stated, people know BYU is a good program and I doubt many people in the field have much bias toward LDS. On the other hand, there are a lot more biases against PsyDs and schools with such large classes, poor match rates, and ridiculous cost.

As far as the LDS school goes, as long as you don't drink alcohol/caffeine, smoke cigarettes, or fornicate out of wedlock is there much more to the honor code?

 

[futureapppsy2]

people will be more biased against the Stanford PsyD than the BYU PhD.

As stated, people know BYU is a good program and I doubt many people in the field have much bias toward LDS. On the other hand, there are a lot more biases against PsyDs and schools with such large classes, poor match rates, and ridiculous cost.

As far as the LDS school goes, as long as you don't drink alcohol/caffeine, smoke cigarettes, or fornicate out of wedlock is there much more to the honor code?

Yes.

http://saas.byu.edu/catalog/2011-2012ucat/GeneralInfo/HonorCode.php#HCOfficeInvovement

Among other things, the honor code mandates fairly strict dress codes, curfew hours even if you live off-campus, etc. Non-LDS students can and do happily attend BYU (though in pretty small numbers), but I think it's important to recognize what will be required of you up front and what the culture of the campus is like. I wouldn't let the very heavily LDS/honor code aspect dissuade you if the program is a funded, good fit (again, it's a very solid program), but I do think that it's a unique aspect of university that should be taken into account, because it is such a big influence on the university (much moreso than most religiously-affiliated universities these days).

 

[ResearchGirlie]

Sorry if this is a ridiculous question, but just wondering if this honor code applies to graduate students and staff?

 

[futureapppsy2]

Sorry if this is a ridiculous question, but just wondering if this honor code applies to graduate students and staff?

AFAIK (not a BYU student [or LDS] myself--I just know a lot of alumni), it does apply to grad students. Not sure about staff, though,

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

AFAIK (not a BYU student myself--I just know a lot of alumni), it does apply to grad students. Not sure about staff, though,

I'd guess yes. A friend was looking at an internship (or post-doc?) a few years ago at their counseling center. There was a pretty length code of conduct required by the university.

 

[ResearchGirlie]

That's really interesting. In this case I think it would be really important to have some very honest conversations with current grad students who aren't LDS to find out how others have fared through the program and after.

 

[LucidMind]

Thank you so much for the advice and input!

Living in Provo Utah may definitely be culture shock. However, out of each cohort (around 8-10 grad students) there are about 2-3 non LDS students, and I got a chance to talk to them about their experiences. Everybody had positive things to say about the program, however they did mention it can take some time getting used to the culture/micro-society.

Also, grad students and professors must follow the honor code, but it is much less strict than for the undergrad students (I don't think there is a curfew for grads)

The PhD program is 100% secular, and it really is what I am looking for...also the internship placements for the past ten years looked really interested.

It sounds like you guys think BYU would offer much better oppurtunities than PGSP Consortium, i'll definitely take that into consideration. Again thank you so much for your help! I'd love to hear any other input from people too! 😀

 

[JeyRo]

Thank you so much for the advice and input!

Living in Provo Utah may definitely be culture shock. However, out of each cohort (around 8-10 grad students) there are about 2-3 non LDS students, and I got a chance to talk to them about their experiences. Everybody had positive things to say about the program, however they did mention it can take some time getting used to the culture/micro-society.

Also, grad students and professors must follow the honor code, but it is much less strict than for the undergrad students (I don't think there is a curfew for grads)

The PhD program is 100% secular, and it really is what I am looking for...also the internship placements for the past ten years looked really interested.

It sounds like you guys think BYU would offer much better oppurtunities than PGSP Consortium, i'll definitely take that into consideration. Again thank you so much for your help! I'd love to hear any other input from people too! 😀

The blistering debt from an unfunded program vs. a substantially funded program with a reasonably good reputation? Why is there even a question?

 

[deleted176373]

Hi guys...it's my first post (hurray!!)


Anyways, I was recently accepted into Brigham Young University's clinical psychology PhD program. It really matches my clinical and research interests. However, I was wondering if going to a predominantly and well-known LDS-Mormon school might affect my future as a clinician. I am clueless as to how things work after graduate school, but I was wondering if future clients or employers may see that I got my PhD from BYU and have second thoughts (or at least stereotypes).

Also, I am pretty sure I will get accepted into Palo Alto University's PsyD program (Stanford Consortium). So my options are either BYU, Palo Alto, or stay in my current job for another year and apply again (retaking the GRE of course too!). What do you guys think?

I would love any input you guys can give me. Thank you so much in advance for the help!

BYU is a great program, and many people have a lot of misconceptions about Mormon's. I am not Mormon BTW, but I've been quite close with a few whom I consider good friends. I would see BYU as being a positive, and it's easy to spin if you are not LDS/Mormon as a cultural diversity experience.

Funded, hell ya, get on it.

Quite seriously, if I was looking at two CV's one from BYU and one from Palo Alto, I think I would be biased towards the BYU one. I know better and would get to know each applicant, because a program does not define the student. I have met students from programs that many would consider horrible, but these particular students were quite gifted and would make their schools more than proud.

Take the funded program, but only if you think you'll love it!

 

[bmedclinic]

Quite seriously, if I was looking at two CV's one from BYU and one from Palo Alto, I think I would be biased towards the BYU one. I know better and would get to know each applicant, because a program does not define the student. I have met students from programs that many would consider horrible, but these particular students were quite gifted and would make their schools more than proud.

My guess is that Markp's statements above pretty well represent how people view those programs in comparison. Further, I have a former supervisor who is LDS and did his internship there and he spoke very, very highly of it (from a psychological perspective, not from an LDS perspective). The one thing he did mention was the dress code, but honestly- how is it really going to be that much different than the way the rest of us dress in order to look professional? Probably not much at all unless you have some crazy tats or some extreme beard.

 

[dumbledoresgirl]

This is somewhat unrelated, but is the homosexuality part of the Honor Code legal? How is that not discrimination if they can revoke your admission because of it?

 

[NeuroTrope]

This is somewhat unrelated, but is the homosexuality part of the Honor Code legal? How is that not discrimination if they can revoke your admission because of it?

My understanding of LDS, limited as it may be, is that you can be homosexual. You just are not allowed to commit any homosexual acts, ever. So if you self-identify as homosexual they will let you in, but you cannot engage in any acts on or off campus. Good times indeed.

 

[LETSGONYR]

My understanding of LDS, limited as it may be, is that you can be homosexual. You just are not allowed to commit any homosexual acts, ever. So if you self-identify as homosexual they will let you in, but you cannot engage in any acts on or off campus. Good times indeed.

That is my understanding as well. However, the Mormon Church has donated a lot of money to anti-LGBT causes and has fought marriage equality legislation time and time again. This may be hard for some people to reconcile.

 

[le pamplemousse]

are all Mormons extreme in their views though?

My family is Catholic by tradition, but we don't really adhere to any of the religious stuff. I am sure there are Mormons who are very liberal and progressive in their views (or is a "liberal mormon" an oxymoron? Not sure!)

 

[bmedclinic]

This is somewhat unrelated, but is the homosexuality part of the Honor Code legal? How is that not discrimination if they can revoke your admission because of it?

My guess, based off the "legality" of certain univiersities doing certain things within the sports realm is that it may come down to BYU being able to do this because they are a private (and religious) university.

 

[cara susanna]

I think that the liberal Mormons I know are even more conservative than the liberal Catholics I know (including myself).

 

[ResearchGirlie]

The blistering debt from an unfunded program vs. a substantially funded program with a reasonably good reputation? Why is there even a question?

Signing up for 4+ years of people dictating personal aspects of your life seems like it's worth considering. I wouldn't consider going to PAU, but I still think it's important to consider whether going to what, may be, an intrusive university is going to be like and if I could put up with it.

 

[LETSGONYR]

are all Mormons extreme in their views though?

My family is Catholic by tradition, but we don't really adhere to any of the religious stuff. I am sure there are Mormons who are very liberal and progressive in their views (or is a "liberal mormon" an oxymoron? Not sure!)

Oh, I'm sure there is a great amount of diversity and that the staff and students have a range of views. Bur still... it would make for a ton of countertransference issues for some people, myself included. 🙂.

Honestly though, I think a lot of psychologists and psych students automatically see religion as a negative. I think it can be an amazing support for a lot of people. I think the experiences at BYU would give you an interesting perspective and may help differentiate you from other applicants.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

Hi guys...it's my first post (hurray!!)


Anyways, I was recently accepted into Brigham Young University's clinical psychology PhD program. It really matches my clinical and research interests. However, I was wondering if going to a predominantly and well-known LDS-Mormon school might affect my future as a clinician. I am clueless as to how things work after graduate school, but I was wondering if future clients or employers may see that I got my PhD from BYU and have second thoughts (or at least stereotypes).

Speaking from my own experience working in a PP setting, none of my clients really know or care where I went to school. If it even occurs to them, they tend to assume that I went to the large university in town (like most of their health care providers did). I didn't go there, but it is pretty comparable to the place I went, so I don't get too bent out of shape when I correct them.

My UG institution is a bit of a tip off to my personal religious affiliation, but in the 3.5 years I have been working in PP and the year of CMH internship, no one has ever brought it up. And I know people google. And see the bumper sticker on my car. And my occasional coffee mug with the logo.

Dr. E

 

[Pragma]

Oh, I'm sure there is a great amount of diversity and that the staff and students have a range of views. Bur still... it would make for a ton of countertransference issues for some people, myself included. 🙂.

Honestly though, I think a lot of psychologists and psych students automatically see religion as a negative. I think it can be an amazing support for a lot of people. I think the experiences at BYU would give you an interesting perspective and may help differentiate you from other applicants.

I believe that to be true, although obviously many do recognize the benefits of spirituality (at least for their clients). But I didn't even disclose my personal religion during training because there were a lot of people mocking religion quite frequently.

 

[LucidMind]

I really want to thank everybody again for the lively discussion and input/advice...I really appreciate it!


The clinical program at BYU was extremely impressive to me, and the only 2 factors that were making me think twice at all are the possible future stigma of a religious institution (and this thread has really assuaged my worries about this) and the intense religious atmosphere of the undergraduate program and the surrounding city of Provo. However, from what I hear about graduate school, I won't have much free time dwell on those things once i'm actually there. Plus, I can always live in Salt Lake and commute 🙂

Thanks again everybody!

 

[aanders8]

That is my understanding as well. However, the Mormon Church has donated a lot of money to anti-LGBT causes and has fought marriage equality legislation time and time again. This may be hard for some people to reconcile.

Quick clarification from a Mormon who did their undergrad work at BYU: The LDS church as an entity did not donate money to proposition 8. They publically supported it and individual members donated money to it though.

Recently the church has spent resources to help reduce discrimination against the LGBT community.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705343558/Mormon-Church-backs-protection-of-gay-rights-in-Salt-Lake-City.html?pg=all

Call it a PR move or whatever you want, but I know the church is attempting to reach out to the LGBT community while still keeping its stance on certain moral issues.

To the OP, I hope you enjoy Utah. The outdoor activities are unbeatable (I'm going to miss them) and the weather is pretty good. There is quite a bit of variation among Mormons in terms of their practice and belief, but I guarantee you will experience some culture shock. Keep an eye out for the fun music scene in the area. Also, there is a nice brand new rail line that runs from SLC to Provo which may be convenient if you do end up living in Salt Lake. Salt Lake is much less homogenous in just about every respect.

 

[LETSGONYR]

EDIT: Just a warning, this gets political... feel free to skip it. 🙂.

Quick clarification from a Mormon who did their undergrad work at BYU: The LDS church as an entity did not donate money to proposition 8. They publically supported it and individual members donated money to it though.

Recently the church has spent resources to help reduce discrimination against the LGBT community.

Quick (accurate) clarification from a non-LDS person who cares about equal rights.

The LDS Church filed an amicus brief with SCOTUS in favor of both the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) and Prop 8: http://www.christianpost.com/news/mormon-church-files-briefs-in-support-of-doma-prop-8-89415/

FULL DISCLOSURE: Many other non-LDS religious groups/organizations also did this.

Though.... the role of the Mormon Church in helping to pass Prop 8, both monetarily and otherwise, has been known for years. The LDS Church agreed to pay a fine for not fully disclosing their monetary contributions, meaning not only that they DID donate money, but did so illegally, and have admitted that.

From the LA Times, early 2009: "Top officials with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints filed reports today indicating that they donated more than $180,000 in in-kind contributions to Proposition 8, the November ballot initiative that banned same-sex marriage in California.
The contributions included tens of thousands of dollars for expenses such as airline tickets, hotel and restaurant bills and car-rental bills for top church officials such as L. Whitney Clayton, along with $96,849.31 worth of "compensated staff time" for church employees.
The church said the expenditures took place between July 1 and the end of the year. The church's involvement has been a major issue in the campaign and its aftermath. Individual Mormon families donated millions -- by some estimates more than $20 million -- of their own money to the campaign." http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/01/top-officials-w.html (Note: More recent estimates say that individual LDS members contributed 50-77% of the capital raised by the Yes-on-8 side)

The play, "8: The Mormon Proposition" describes the role of the LDS Church in the passing of Prop 8. It's admittedly biased, but still. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8:_The_Mormon_Proposition

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/15/us/politics/15marriage.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

The LDS Church also showed videos to all congregations re: Prop 8, ran voter registration efforts, held phone banks and distributed campaign materials.

Now, whether the monetary contributions were coming from the Church itself or from members (either dictated/mandated by the Church or not), in my mind, is completely irrelevant. I don't really see how you can separate the two, and say that the Mormon Church is innocent. They CLEARLY had a lot to do with the passing of this discriminatory and (in my mind) unconstitutional law.

 

[LucidMind]

Quick clarification from a Mormon who did their undergrad work at BYU: The LDS church as an entity did not donate money to proposition 8. They publically supported it and individual members donated money to it though.

Recently the church has spent resources to help reduce discrimination against the LGBT community.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705343558/Mormon-Church-backs-protection-of-gay-rights-in-Salt-Lake-City.html?pg=all

Call it a PR move or whatever you want, but I know the church is attempting to reach out to the LGBT community while still keeping its stance on certain moral issues.

To the OP, I hope you enjoy Utah. The outdoor activities are unbeatable (I'm going to miss them) and the weather is pretty good. There is quite a bit of variation among Mormons in terms of their practice and belief, but I guarantee you will experience some culture shock. Keep an eye out for the fun music scene in the area. Also, there is a nice brand new rail line that runs from SLC to Provo which may be convenient if you do end up living in Salt Lake. Salt Lake is much less homogenous in just about every respect.

Thanks for the advice aanders!

 

[ResearchGirlie]

EDIT: Just a warning, this gets political... feel free to skip it. 🙂.



Quick (accurate) clarification from a non-LDS person who cares about equal rights.

The LDS Church filed an amicus brief with SCOTUS in favor of both the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) and Prop 8: http://www.christianpost.com/news/mormon-church-files-briefs-in-support-of-doma-prop-8-89415/

FULL DISCLOSURE: Many other non-LDS religious groups/organizations also did this.

👍

I do hope the church is being more open to the LGBT community but there's no doubt that a ton of money from Utah and their LDS community flooded California in support of Prop 8.

 

[aanders8]

Now, whether the monetary contributions were coming from the Church itself or from members (either dictated/mandated by the Church or not), in my mind, is completely irrelevant. I don't really see how you can separate the two, and say that the Mormon Church is innocent. They CLEARLY had a lot to do with the passing of this discriminatory and (in my mind) unconstitutional law.

I think it is important to make a distinction between the church and the members because not all people who claim to subscribe to a religious sect, denomination, etc represent the actual teachings of that organization (obvious example: radical Islamists don't represent most of the 1.4 billion Muslims). The church, as an entity/organization, never told members that they had to donate money to proposition 8. I never did and I'm still a member. The LDS church officially does not take sides in terms of parties or politicians (example: Romney = Republican nominee for president and Harry Reid = Senate Majority Leader of the Democratic Party), but does take stands on what it sees as moral issues. This is a moral issue with a multitude of opinions (ie I, and many others, who I'm sure you would consider prejudiced, closeminded etc. don't think the law is unconstitutional). You are correct that the church (both the leadership and many members) actively supported proposition 8 in many ways.

Thank you for the articles! I enjoyed reading them and becoming more informed.

 

[LETSGONYR]

I think it is important to make a distinction between the church and the members because not all people who claim to subscribe to a religious sect, denomination, etc represent the actual teachings of that organization (obvious example: radical Islamists don't represent most of the 1.4 billion Muslims). The church, as an entity/organization, never told members that they had to donate money to proposition 8. I never did and I'm still a member. The LDS church officially does not take sides in terms of parties or politicians (example: Romney = Republican nominee for president and Harry Reid = Senate Majority Leader of the Democratic Party), but does take stands on what it sees as moral issues. This is a moral issue with a multitude of opinions (ie I, and many others, who I'm sure you would consider prejudiced, closeminded etc. don't think the law is unconstitutional). You are correct that the church (both the leadership and many members) actively supported proposition 8 in many ways.

Thank you for the articles! I enjoyed reading them and becoming more informed.

I totally get that not everyone who subscribes to a religion is the same; I believe I said that I'm sure the population at BYU is very diverse. I'll throw it out there... I have a lot of problems with the Catholic Church for a lot of things they do and stand for, although I am dating a devout Catholic. 🙂.

I understand that the LDS Church never "mandated" members donate to the pro-8 side, but my understanding is that it was actively encouraged and that there were efforts by Church leadership to promote that cause. It's not 100% of their membership, for sure. I am not condemning all Mormons for the actions of some (even if it's the majority) of their members, or even for the actions of the Church itself. Like I said, I don't have anything against individual Catholics, even though I have many problems with Church leadership. Honestly, even though I am fairly non-religious (though I do identify as Jewish), I think religion has a strong place in many people's lives and that religious communities tend to provide a lot of support to a lot of people.

Also, just for the record, I don't think you (or people like you) are necessarily bigoted/closedminded/etc.... I don't even know you. I *do* think you're wrong on this issue, but I don't necessarily think that means you're a bad person or have inherent bad qualities. I admit that many people on my "side" fling the "bigot" label around, which I think is wrong and counterproductive, but I won't do that. I would love to hear more about your perspective though (either here or a PM, if you're comfortable with either)... I promise I won't get preachy or angry. 🙂.

 

[jimson]

i am LDS and have my phd from the counseling psych program at BYU. i took (and enjoyed) several classes from the clinical psych dept. it has a solid research program, esp. the outcomes research led by michael lambert. you will likely have a few weird/bizarre experiences where religion spills into the classroom but that will be the exception. it's a secular program and will help you learn to think critically about the intersection of spiritual/religious values and psychotherapy. there are a couple of great professors/researchers/practitioners there who are not LDS--brent slife & gary burlingame.

in regards to the honor code, the trickiest part will be if you drink. you'll either have to become a teetotaler or be very discreet and be smart/comfortable about lying when you fill out your ecclesiastical endorsement. in terms of dress/grooming, if you're a male, you need to be clean shaven and your hair can't be too long. the faculty in the clinical dept. couldn't care less but if you work at the counseling center, that may be an issue. if you're a female, you may need to be careful about wearing spaghetti strap tops/dresses and shorts/dresses that go too high above the knee. again, the faculty won't really care but there are repressed and self-appointed scrupulosity police all over the place--esp. in administrative offices.

i think commuting from slc may be more feasible as the rail extends to utah valley. not sure what the status is now but it seems like they're working on it (i live on the east coast now). i commuted my last semester at byu. i'd recommend spending at least your first year in provo though.

i worked at the university counseling center for three and a half years. the culture is, imo, pretty hostile to the LGBT community. it's better than it was 5 years ago but the progress is slow. the counseling center was a bit of a protective bubble for LGBT folks--a place on campus where they could relax and get support.

I understand that the LDS Church never "mandated" members donate to the pro-8 side, but my understanding is that it was actively encouraged and that there were efforts by Church leadership to promote that cause.

that's pretty accurate. there are large movements w in the church of folks who are anti-prop 8 but they are the minority. my sense is that the leadership of the church are going to avoid being so aggressive in the future and that they are softening up a bit. plus, their claims of political neutrality have lost credibility. i did not read their paying a fee and refusal to disclose financial data as an obvious sign that they donated to prop 8--that's just them being their tight-lipped selves and is consistent across contexts.

 

[perhaps11]

FWIW salt lake itself is quite LGBT friendly....I am in the clinical program at the U (which is also very LGBT friendly) and was pleasantly surprised at how tolerant the city is, especially after leaving a slightly more liberal state. That said, BYU and outside of salt lake is definitely more conservative and less diverse - I tend to avoid leaving the salt lake bubble ;-)

 

[deleted176373]

are all Mormons extreme in their views though?

My family is Catholic by tradition, but we don't really adhere to any of the religious stuff. I am sure there are Mormons who are very liberal and progressive in their views (or is a "liberal mormon" an oxymoron? Not sure!)

No, they are not all extreme at all. Trust me on this... some are more disciplined in following the tenets of their religion than others, and those who are active in the church often have a bit more intrusion into their lives than the average person might, but all in all, I did not perceive the values shared with me as extreme.

The LDS members I have met have been tolerant, caring, and family oriented in general. However don't count them out when it comes to getting adventurous, as there are some pretty interesting characters within the church who have had some colorful pasts. Don't let the external appearances and generalizations drive your opinion, go with what you see and experience, it will open your eyes quite a bit. One of the ones I knew quite well was more hippy-liberal than religious-conservative, and yet she fit into the church just fine.

Mark

 

[LucidMind]

i am LDS and have my phd from the counseling psych program at BYU. i took (and enjoyed) several classes from the clinical psych dept. it has a solid research program, esp. the outcomes research led by michael lambert. you will likely have a few weird/bizarre experiences where religion spills into the classroom but that will be the exception. it's a secular program and will help you learn to think critically about the intersection of spiritual/religious values and psychotherapy. there are a couple of great professors/researchers/practitioners there who are not LDS--brent slife & gary burlingame.

in regards to the honor code, the trickiest part will be if you drink. you'll either have to become a teetotaler or be very discreet and be smart/comfortable about lying when you fill out your ecclesiastical endorsement. in terms of dress/grooming, if you're a male, you need to be clean shaven and your hair can't be too long. the faculty in the clinical dept. couldn't care less but if you work at the counseling center, that may be an issue. if you're a female, you may need to be careful about wearing spaghetti strap tops/dresses and shorts/dresses that go too high above the knee. again, the faculty won't really care but there are repressed and self-appointed scrupulosity police all over the place--esp. in administrative offices.

i think commuting from slc may be more feasible as the rail extends to utah valley. not sure what the status is now but it seems like they're working on it (i live on the east coast now). i commuted my last semester at byu. i'd recommend spending at least your first year in provo though.

i worked at the university counseling center for three and a half years. the culture is, imo, pretty hostile to the LGBT community. it's better than it was 5 years ago but the progress is slow. the counseling center was a bit of a protective bubble for LGBT folks--a place on campus where they could relax and get support.



that's pretty accurate. there are large movements w in the church of folks who are anti-prop 8 but they are the minority. my sense is that the leadership of the church are going to avoid being so aggressive in the future and that they are softening up a bit. plus, their claims of political neutrality have lost credibility. i did not read their paying a fee and refusal to disclose financial data as an obvious sign that they donated to prop 8--that's just them being their tight-lipped selves and is consistent across contexts.

Very insightful and helpful...thank you for your input! 👍

 

[LucidMind]

Now that PGSP Stanford Consortium got 100% apa internship placement...my decision looks a little more difficult

 

[Pragma]

Now that PGSP Stanford Consortium got 100% apa internship placement...my decision looks a little more difficult

I really don't see why it would. Lots of programs hit 100% very regularly and won't cost you your first born child.

 

[psychRA]

I really don't see why it would. Lots of programs hit 100% very regularly and won't cost you your first born child.

Absolutely. My PhD program is fully funded and has been at 100% nearly every year for the past decade. When I was applying to programs, I cut places where 90-100% wasn't the norm, and it didn't shorten my list by very much.

 

[LucidMind]

interesting...definitely hadn't considered that. Very valid points 🙂

 

[MBellows]

The LDS members I have met have been tolerant, caring, and family oriented in general. However don't count them out when it comes to getting adventurous, as there are some pretty interesting characters within the church who have had some colorful pasts.

This. One of our intern matches in the last batch is a Mormon, and when he came in I thought that it was a strange juxtaposition of what I believe to be highly dogmatic religion that holds major beliefs that are not congruent with the practice of psychology as a profession as outlined by the APA. I remember looking at my wife and saying, "at least there's not a scientologist." But you know, I was very fortunately mistaken. That soon to be psychologist is probably one of the better ones we've had come through, has probably the best work ethic I've ever encountered, doesn't hold other people to the standards that he holds himself to, and generally doesn't talk about religion unless he's asked a direct question or unless he has to explain why he doesn't drink coffee.

Generally, the religion is probably no more or less wacky than any other from an objective viewpoint, but I will never again discount someone again because of it.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Like all faiths (or any group), Mormons are not all alike. For example, despite the general image of the church as a Republican, conservative stronghold, there are liberal, card-carrying Democrat Mormons moderate Mormons, and socially conservative but not outspoken about it Mormons and everything in between. Similarly, some Mormons may be strongly interested in converting you; others may never mention it. With that being said, BYU *tends* to self-select for more conservative members of the church and thus the area has a stronger sense of LDS culture than, say, Salt Lake. I've known devout, Utah-raised Mormons who have found BYU/Provo to be not their cup of tea simply because they are more socially liberal. That said, there are Mormons (and non-Mormons) at BYU who are not the stereotypical BYU student and are happy there. So, as with most things, YMMV. 🙂

 

[Howisbabbyformd]

Sorry if this is a ridiculous question, but just wondering if this honor code applies to graduate students and staff?

From their website:

"As a matter of personal commitment, faculty, administration, staff, and students of Brigham Young University, Brigham Young University—Hawaii, Brigham Young University—Idaho, and LDS Business College seek to demonstrate in daily living on and off campus those moral virtues encompassed in the gospel of Jesus Christ, and will..."

It definitely applies to graduate students.

 

[ResearchGirlie]

From their website:

"As a matter of personal commitment, faculty, administration, staff, and students of Brigham Young University, Brigham Young University—Hawaii, Brigham Young University—Idaho, and LDS Business College seek to demonstrate in daily living on and off campus those moral virtues encompassed in the gospel of Jesus Christ, and will..."

It definitely applies to graduate students.

Thanks! That's really interesting.