A couple questions for current KCUMB students

[Awesome Sauceome]

Hey so I have been accepted to KCUMB and I am about 90% sure that I am just going to cancel out all of my other interviews and just take it and run with it. I really felt at home here (especially compared to at another school I interviewed at), and with the awesome curriculum and alum base and pretty much everything else at the school, I feel like it is the one.

Now for a couple of questions that I either forgot to ask on the interview day or basically did not get solid responses on. I looked around on SDN and google obviously, but it seems like there are not many recent threads about the school, most are from the 2011 region or the 2006 region, and as I understand it, a lot has been changing with the school.
1) What is the grading system there, I totally spaced and forgot to ask this one. Not that it matters very much to me, but I more or less am just curious.
2) I guess this is going to be a list of subset questions about rotations:
2a) How are rotations picked. Is it still a set lottery system that does not take into account any sort of family or housing arrangements you currently have? I have heard that it is just completely random.
2b) Roughly what percentage of students get the rotations that they want?
2c) Are most of the preceptors paid for their mentoring/teaching? As I understand it, this can pretty dramatically change whether or not you have people who are actually attempting to spend some of their time teaching.
2c) Roughly what percentage of students stay in KC vs go out of state?
2d) I hear the spots out of state are actually pretty good? Like the ones in Michigan and Ohio?
2e) IF you do decide to go out of state, lets say I pick Ohio... Would I be able to stay basically in one spot for those 3rd and 4th years? Like are all of the rotations done at the same hospital or healthcare system? As I understand it, if you stay in KC you sort of go all over the place, but if you go out of state you tend to stay closer to a core hospital... is this correct?
2f) Is there any concern for not having enough rotations for all of the students? It seemed like there was some very low key rumor about the fact that they have so many students and not enough solid sites.

Uhh I think thats it for now haha. Thanks a bunch! PM if you dont feel like writing on here.

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[Awesome Sauceome]

Also... is there any particular reason why it seemed like the students here were like legit "suffering." Like they all seemed very happy, but I probably received more comments about how challenging the coursework was than I did from any other school. Also I work at a med school (MD school) and while there are definitely handfuls of whiners, most can trudge through it and I dont here as many people having difficulty with it.

Is it something specific to the new curriculum? Are there kinks currently being worked out?

Even though it is obviously very hard, is there strong confidence that this particularly challenging program will result in baller board scores?

 

[mnsman]

Also... is there any particular reason why it seemed like the students here were like legit "suffering." Like they all seemed very happy, but I probably received more comments about how challenging the coursework was than I did from any other school. Also I work at a med school (MD school) and while there are definitely handfuls of whiners, most can trudge through it and I dont here as many people having difficulty with it.

Is it something specific to the new curriculum? Are there kinks currently being worked out?

Even though it is obviously very hard, is there strong confidence that this particularly challenging program will result in baller board scores?

First year here, so I can't answer a lot of your prior questions. You may have caught us right before a final . I will say the newly implemented curriculum has some kinks and it makes it ROUGH. I'm sure much of it will be smoothed out before you get to orientation. It seems like the new dean and administration has set higher expectations of our class forward and many of the second years have expressed pity on we suffering first-years.

Will we have the some baller board scores in the future? That's what they tell us and I don't have a good reason to say otherwise. We have now have a lot of people who made TCOM, RVU, and of course KCUMB successful in the past so I'd like to think they are very intelligent and qualified to lead.

 

[Stedari]

Hey so I have been accepted to KCUMB and I am about 90% sure that I am just going to cancel out all of my other interviews and just take it and run with it. I really felt at home here (especially compared to at another school I interviewed at), and with the awesome curriculum and alum base and pretty much everything else at the school, I feel like it is the one.

Now for a couple of questions that I either forgot to ask on the interview day or basically did not get solid responses on. I looked around on SDN and google obviously, but it seems like there are not many recent threads about the school, most are from the 2011 region or the 2006 region, and as I understand it, a lot has been changing with the school.
1) What is the grading system there, I totally spaced and forgot to ask this one. Not that it matters very much to me, but I more or less am just curious.
2) I guess this is going to be a list of subset questions about rotations:
2a) How are rotations picked. Is it still a set lottery system that does not take into account any sort of family or housing arrangements you currently have? I have heard that it is just completely random.
2b) Roughly what percentage of students get the rotations that they want?
2c) Are most of the preceptors paid for their mentoring/teaching? As I understand it, this can pretty dramatically change whether or not you have people who are actually attempting to spend some of their time teaching.
2c) Roughly what percentage of students stay in KC vs go out of state?
2d) I hear the spots out of state are actually pretty good? Like the ones in Michigan and Ohio?
2e) IF you do decide to go out of state, lets say I pick Ohio... Would I be able to stay basically in one spot for those 3rd and 4th years? Like are all of the rotations done at the same hospital or healthcare system? As I understand it, if you stay in KC you sort of go all over the place, but if you go out of state you tend to stay closer to a core hospital... is this correct?
2f) Is there any concern for not having enough rotations for all of the students? It seemed like there was some very low key rumor about the fact that they have so many students and not enough solid sites.

Uhh I think thats it for now haha. Thanks a bunch! PM if you dont feel like writing on here.

4th year here...
1. Grading system is A, A-, B+ etc. And then Honors, high satisfactory, satisfactory and fail for rotations. A student can no longer receive Honors for anything fourth year (too much administrative work apparently). It is easy to pass, but tough to get all A's/H's
2. Towards the end of third year you enter a lottery system for your rotation core site. The the vast majority of people get there number one spot. About 100 people stay in KC and the rest are all spread out.
3. Yes, the preceptors receive $500 per student per month.
4. 100 students in KC (35-40%)
5. A couple of the core sites are "good", others are not so good. I will elaborate more in a second.
6. Whatever the core site is that you get via the lottery site will be yours for 3rd and 4th year. Definitely all of third year. Fourth year you will have a lot of autonomy with scheduling rotations wherever you want in the country. It's a lot of work, but you can be where you want to which is nice. Your 3rd year will be all assigned to you.
7. There is concern. KCUMB continues to expand its class size. My class is 240 students, and I think the incoming class will be 275+.

In my opinion, the clinical training at KCUMB rotations is the worst part about the school. It is not homogeneous whatsoever. We don't have our own hospital which is a huge disadvantage, especially with KU, UMKC and SABA (a caribbean school that rotates >40 students in KC) to compete with for spots. It is common for students in medical school to take rotations at their "home institution" which we essentially don't have. We have random DOs across the country that take students.

You will be able to set up one elective rotation your third year which can hopefully be a good one. And then you can set up all of your fourth year to ensure adequate training. If you work really hard to get the best rotations and do a ton of research on your core site you will have the best chance of good training. But if you just take the rotations KCUMB assigns, you will have substandard clinical training/skills entering residency.

Some will surely say "I had a great experience and good rotations." I assure you this is not anywhere near unanimous. And with all things from restaurants to medical schools, consistency with the product (the student) is vital.

 

[AlteredScale]

4th year here...
1. Grading system is A, A-, B+ etc. And then Honors, high satisfactory, satisfactory and fail for rotations. A student can no longer receive Honors for anything fourth year (too much administrative work apparently). It is easy to pass, but tough to get all A's/H's
2. Towards the end of third year you enter a lottery system for your rotation core site. The the vast majority of people get there number one spot. About 100 people stay in KC and the rest are all spread out.
3. Yes, the preceptors receive $500 per student per month.
4. 100 students in KC (35-40%)
5. A couple of the core sites are "good", others are not so good. I will elaborate more in a second.
6. Whatever the core site is that you get via the lottery site will be yours for 3rd and 4th year. Definitely all of third year. Fourth year you will have a lot of autonomy with scheduling rotations wherever you want in the country. It's a lot of work, but you can be where you want to which is nice. Your 3rd year will be all assigned to you.
7. There is concern. KCUMB continues to expand its class size. My class is 240 students, and I think the incoming class will be 275+.

In my opinion, the clinical training at KCUMB rotations is the worst part about the school. It is not homogeneous whatsoever. We don't have our own hospital which is a huge disadvantage, especially with KU, UMKC and SABA (a caribbean school that rotates >40 students in KC) to compete with for spots. It is common for students in medical school to take rotations at their "home institution" which we essentially don't have. We have random DOs across the country that take students.

You will be able to set up one elective rotation your third year which can hopefully be a good one. And then you can set up all of your fourth year to ensure adequate training. If you work really hard to get the best rotations and do a ton of research on your core site you will have the best chance of good training. But if you just take the rotations KCUMB assigns, you will have substandard clinical training/skills entering residency.

Some will surely say "I had a great experience and good rotations." I assure you this is not anywhere near unanimous. And with all things from restaurants to medical schools, consistency with the product (the student) is vital.

Quick question regarding that (Sorry for the hijack). Do you think the clinical rotations are strong enough to get the KCUMB grads in places like mayo and Cleveland clinic?
Emm And of

 

[Stedari]

For competitive residencies you need to be a competitive applicant. I think that with stellar board scores, great grades, research experience with publications and top notch performance on rotations and shelf exams it is possible to be considered for some of these programs. For many elite residencies, however, I think that simply being a DO will filter you out. Look up current residents of these name brand programs you are interested in and see if they have taken DO's. This is about the only tangible evidence that it is possible to earn admission as an osteopathic candidate. It's an uphill battle for anything above mid-tier programs regardless of which DO school you attend.

 

[AlteredScale]

For competitive residencies you need to be a competitive applicant. I think that with stellar board scores, great grades, research experience with publications and top notch performance on rotations and shelf exams it is possible to be considered for some of these programs. For many elite residencies, however, I think that simply being a DO will filter you out. Look up current residents of these name brand programs you are interested in and see if they have taken DO's. This is about the only tangible evidence that it is possible to earn admission as an osteopathic candidate. It's an uphill battle for anything above mid-tier programs regardless of which DO school you attend.

Thanks for the advice, I'll try and get in touch with some PGY-1's that graduate from KCUMB to see what they needed to do to land their residency. Thanks again!

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

For competitive residencies you need to be a competitive applicant. I think that with stellar board scores, great grades, research experience with publications and top notch performance on rotations and shelf exams it is possible to be considered for some of these programs. For many elite residencies, however, I think that simply being a DO will filter you out. Look up current residents of these name brand programs you are interested in and see if they have taken DO's. This is about the only tangible evidence that it is possible to earn admission as an osteopathic candidate. It's an uphill battle for anything above mid-tier programs regardless of which DO school you attend.

Sounds about true of all DO schools I hear... except maybe CCOM.

 

[bajastapler]

it'd be silly not to finish up your interviews/application process. give yourself options.
1st/2nd year: go to the school that gives u the most amount of independent study time. Go to the school with the best research opportunities.
3rd year: go to the school with the most pathology. Research all associated hospitals. Look up the bed number at each site. look up the specialties offered there. Look up the number of subspecialists they have. etc etc etc. <--- I understand that everything is variable, but at least this is something tangible that you can work with.
4th year: go to the school with the most directly associated residencies. B/c at the end of the day you don't know wtf your going to end up in and b/c picking residents is largely political, students from your class are all but guaranteed (some) spots - if they want it.

 

[AlteredScale]

it'd be silly not to finish up your interviews/application process. give yourself options.
1st/2nd year: go to the school that gives u the most amount of independent study time. Go to the school with the best research opportunities.
3rd year: go to the school with the most pathology. Research all associated hospitals. Look up the bed number at each site. look up the specialties offered there. Look up the number of subspecialists they have. etc etc etc. <--- I understand that everything is variable, but at least this is something tangible that you can work with.
4th year: go to the school with the most directly associated residencies. B/c at the end of the day you don't know wtf your going to end up in and b/c picking residents is largely political, students from your class are all but guaranteed (some) spots - if they want it.

Thank you very much for ye advice!!

 

[bajastapler]

Thank you very much for ye advice!!

im chalk full of advice.just wish i was better at taking my own advice sometimes x). PM if u got any more personal Qs

 

[midweststudent1]

I'm a first year here....and you can message me if you want more specific info

I really like it here at KCUMB. Most of the faculty are SUPERB teachers...up to date on current research, but they're not worried as much about publishing themselves---their priority is teaching. This is a big plus. They PREPARE YOU FOR THE BOARDS. We just finished immunology (the whole class was a total of 2 weeks), and I would say about 40% of the questions were identical to board style immunology questions (I know because I bought a immunology board prep book and did about a hundred board style questions before the test) and the one's on our immunology final were more difficult. I feel very confident in the immunology for boards now! The dean is holding them accountable that we will be the most prepared class in KCUMB's history for the boards. This "new" curriculum is dead set on making us read more, study harder, and kick butt in two years. Is it fun? not really. But I can say that most people see the rewards of his system. This isn't basket weaving---he's out to bring the best out of us.

I had a lot more interviews ahead of me when I received my acceptance to KCUMB. I didn't go to any of them. If you want to go to a couple more, go for it. Maybe apply to a really far reach school. But let me tell you, sometimes its nice just to let the application process be over, and relax

 

[Decremaster]

"The dean is holding them accountable that we will be the most prepared class in KCUMB's history for the boards."

As an RVU student I do miss Dubin. There is a reason we had the highest board pass rate among DO schools this year and the second highest mean score.

 

[user3]

1st/2nd year: go to the school that gives u the most amount of independent study time. Go to the school with the best research opportunities.

to add to this, put schools with mandatory class attendance policies low on your list.

 

[bajastapler]

to add to this, put schools with mandatory class attendance policies low on your list.

THIS TIMES A MILLION. seriously. ... no but seriously.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Hey how much time are they predicting that 2nd years will have for studying for boards. Sounds like the new curriculum is drowning students, is it going to spill over into board studying time, thus shortening it?

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

it'd be silly not to finish up your interviews/application process. give yourself options.
1st/2nd year: go to the school that gives u the most amount of independent study time. Go to the school with the best research opportunities.
3rd year: go to the school with the most pathology. Research all associated hospitals. Look up the bed number at each site. look up the specialties offered there. Look up the number of subspecialists they have. etc etc etc. <--- I understand that everything is variable, but at least this is something tangible that you can work with.
4th year: go to the school with the most directly associated residencies. B/c at the end of the day you don't know wtf your going to end up in and b/c picking residents is largely political, students from your class are all but guaranteed (some) spots - if they want it.

so for me its really between KCUMB and MUCOM

KCUMB is obviously a super strong program but I am concerned about the fact that the new curriculum is going to do just that - take away time from boards.

MUCOM has never even had students take boards but they give like a solid 8 weeks for boards, and on top of that, the spring semester before boards is super light, its basically just one giant course that integrates all that you have learned so far, so basically one big review.

I can't help but be tempted by the fact that they give so much free time for boards, and all of their rotations seem ridiculously promising and are all located close to the school campus (so I wouldn't have to move my wife and I).

And even before boards and rotations, most days their classes are done by noon (besides lab days). Contrast this to what I hear from current KCUMB students where they are 8-5 like every single day. That's just not enough time to study? And I am 100% an out of class kind of worker. Lectures are cool and all, but at least in undergrad my grades improved a lot when I stopped going to class and studying on my own or with a core group of friends.

 

[NurWollen]

so for me its really between KCUMB and MUCOM

KCUMB is obviously a super strong program but I am concerned about the fact that the new curriculum is going to do just that - take away time from boards.

MUCOM has never even had students take boards but they give like a solid 8 weeks for boards, and on top of that, the spring semester before boards is super light, its basically just one giant course that integrates all that you have learned so far, so basically one big review.

I can't help but be tempted by the fact that they give so much free time for boards, and all of their rotations seem ridiculously promising and are all located close to the school campus (so I wouldn't have to move my wife and I).

And even before boards and rotations, most days their classes are done by noon (besides lab days). Contrast this to what I hear from current KCUMB students where they are 8-5 like every single day. That's just not enough time to study? And I am 100% an out of class kind of worker. Lectures are cool and all, but at least in undergrad my grades improved a lot when I stopped going to class and studying on my own or with a core group of friends.

As a current student at a school that has about 30-40 hrs of class time a week, but fortunately doesn't require attendence, I say MUCOM's curriculum sounds very appealing. Done with class by noon everyday? Yes please.

I'm not sure why not going to class is so looked down upon. Even at schools where attendance isn't required, the faculty seem to try and guilt students into going.

 

[RoyalMule]

so for me its really between KCUMB and MUCOM

KCUMB is obviously a super strong program but I am concerned about the fact that the new curriculum is going to do just that - take away time from boards.

MUCOM has never even had students take boards but they give like a solid 8 weeks for boards, and on top of that, the spring semester before boards is super light, its basically just one giant course that integrates all that you have learned so far, so basically one big review.

I can't help but be tempted by the fact that they give so much free time for boards, and all of their rotations seem ridiculously promising and are all located close to the school campus (so I wouldn't have to move my wife and I).

And even before boards and rotations, most days their classes are done by noon (besides lab days). Contrast this to what I hear from current KCUMB students where they are 8-5 like every single day. That's just not enough time to study? And I am 100% an out of class kind of worker. Lectures are cool and all, but at least in undergrad my grades improved a lot when I stopped going to class and studying on my own or with a core group of friends.

The bolded is not remotely true. We are in musculoskeletal now, so 8-5 days are a little more frequent since we spend so much time in anatomy lab, but not every day is like that. I have two days next week where I am done at 12 or 1 and only one day that goes until 5.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

The bolded is not remotely true. We are in musculoskeletal now, so 8-5 days are a little more frequent since we spend so much time in anatomy lab, but not every day is like that. I have two days next week where I am done at 12 or 1 and only one day that goes until 5.

aww ok I appreciate it!

I am really just trying to get the best picture of the school. All of the pros and cons, so it really does help.

 

[RoyalMule]

aww ok I appreciate it!

I am really just trying to get the best picture of the school. All of the pros and cons, so it really does help.

That's definitely the right idea. For the record, only the labs and very few lectures have mandatory attendance. Most of the lectures you can skip if you really get nothing out of them. I personally go to most lectures, but there are a few professors who just don't do it for me, so I always skip theirs and self study. So even on the 8-5 days can be shorter if you don't want to attend class.

 

[bajastapler]

i'd go kcumb if i were u

 

[Elevencents]

I don't go to lecture at kcumb. The only truly mandatory classes are labs and bioethics (3 point quiz each week).

And our second year schedule isn't finalized so we don't know how much time we'll have for boards but Dubin is super boards focused so I see them doing everything possible for us to have ample time for preparation.

Being the guinea pig is always rough but I would think the 2019 class will have a great time of it.

 

[Mass Effect]

Thanks for the advice, I'll try and get in touch with some PGY-1's that graduate from KCUMB to see what they needed to do to land their residency. Thanks again!

I'm a PGY-1 graduate of KCUMB. What I did to land residency? I did audition rotations and I wrote a good personal statement. I wasn't shooting for anything super competitive though. As soon as I knew what I wanted to do, I asked for advice from all sorts of people, attendings, residents, other graduates. I made contacts and I did audition rotations at my top choices. I ended up matching at one. You can PM me for more specifics. I just don't want to give away my residency location, etc. online.

The bolded is not remotely true. We are in musculoskeletal now, so 8-5 days are a little more frequent since we spend so much time in anatomy lab, but not every day is like that. I have two days next week where I am done at 12 or 1 and only one day that goes until 5.

I can't comment about the way things are now under the new administration as I was in late third-year, early fourth-year when they started, but when I was a pre-clinical student, many, many days were 8-5. Class was technically mandatory, but attendance wasn't taken so most people skipped. During my third-year, they made attendance mandatory with lecture sign-in for the pre-clinical folks. From what I've heard, that only lasted a year, so I guess they're back to most people not showing up for class.

The tough part was that in first year, you had labs 1-5 most days (not every single day, but most) and lecture from 8-noon. The neuro block in second year was the worst because there were days when you had lecture 8-noon and lab 1-5 or lecture 8 - 2 or 3 p.m. I understand they've now revamped the curriculum and the Class of 2018 is not doing Genesis (systems-based the first two years), so things might have changed drastically. I really liked Genesis (and it was a reason I chose KCUMB), but the hours in class were tough.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

I don't go to lecture at kcumb. The only truly mandatory classes are labs and bioethics (3 point quiz each week).

And our second year schedule isn't finalized so we don't know how much time we'll have for boards but Dubin is super boards focused so I see them doing everything possible for us to have ample time for preparation.

Being the guinea pig is always rough but I would think the 2019 class will have a great time of it.

wow that really gives me some confidence. It seemed that dubin was board focused, but it is good to hear it from a student there

 

[Eremba]

I love kcumb.
The schedule is kinda wonky some days but like previous posters stated very few times a week are you there til 5. Some days you're done at 12 or you don't have to be there til 9 or 10. Also, attendance isn't mandatory, so, for example, I stayed home Thursday to get caught up and start studying for our midterm on Monday.

I feel like I have plenty of time to study and I go to 95% of the lectures.

 

[Eremba]

I will say I do wish our class was a little smaller.... Labs get cramped and instructor to student ratio in those labs can get a little out of hand sometimes.

Overall, though, things have been smoothing out quite nicely since week 1.

 

[AlteredScale]

I will say I do wish our class was a little smaller.... Labs get cramped and instructor to student ratio in those labs can get a little out of hand sometimes.

Overall, though, things have been smoothing out quite nicely since week 1.

Idk if someone has addressed this yet but has Dean Dubin given you guys an estimate on the amount of time there will be for board preparation?

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Idk if someone has addressed this yet but has Dean Dubin given you guys an estimate on the amount of time there will be for board preparation?

my exact question I have been trying to squeeze out of someone.

I would kill for a rough idea of what the spring semester 2nd year looks like (how many classes and what classes). And then even a remote estimate on the amount of weeks they will get for boards. Someone tells me 6-8 and I will send in my deposit Monday haha

But I understand that they don't exactly have the schedule set yet. Heck it sounds like they are even continually changing the current schedule.

 

[Elevencents]

Idk if someone has addressed this yet but has Dean Dubin given you guys an estimate on the amount of time there will be for board preparation?

We know absolutely nothing about day one of second year and what follows it. But as I said before, he places a large emphasis on board scores so you should have no reservations attending KCUMB in regards to board prep.

As far as classes go, we go through each system first year doing anatomy/biochem/Phys emphasis and then go through them again second year doing path/pharm emphasis. That's the general gist at least.

 

[Eremba]

Idk if someone has addressed this yet but has Dean Dubin given you guys an estimate on the amount of time there will be for board preparation?

Dr Dubin stated to us "do not worry about having time to study for boards. There will be plenty of time given"
No other info at this time. Sorry....

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Dr Dubin stated to us "do not worry about having time to study for boards. There will be plenty of time given"
No other info at this time. Sorry....

Thank GOD.

 

[IslandStyle808]

so for me its really between KCUMB and MUCOM

KCUMB is obviously a super strong program but I am concerned about the fact that the new curriculum is going to do just that - take away time from boards.

MUCOM has never even had students take boards but they give like a solid 8 weeks for boards, and on top of that, the spring semester before boards is super light, its basically just one giant course that integrates all that you have learned so far, so basically one big review.

I can't help but be tempted by the fact that they give so much free time for boards, and all of their rotations seem ridiculously promising and are all located close to the school campus (so I wouldn't have to move my wife and I).

And even before boards and rotations, most days their classes are done by noon (besides lab days). Contrast this to what I hear from current KCUMB students where they are 8-5 like every single day. That's just not enough time to study? And I am 100% an out of class kind of worker. Lectures are cool and all, but at least in undergrad my grades improved a lot when I stopped going to class and studying on my own or with a core group of friends.

I had no idea they were doing this! I thought it was 4 weeks of studying and that integrated curriculum (which was kinda board prep). Was this always true because I thought I heard them say 4 weeks last year at my interview?

 

[costales]

Dr Dubin stated to us "do not worry about having time to study for boards. There will be plenty of time given"
No other info at this time. Sorry....

Dollars to donuts he'll front load 2nd year with the "hard" classes (e.g. renal) at the beginning and the easy stuff (e.g. behavioral) at the end, and let out early. Both Dubin and Hahn spent many years at TCOM, and it appears they're using the TCOM playbook.

 

[hallowmann]

so for me its really between KCUMB and MUCOM

KCUMB is obviously a super strong program but I am concerned about the fact that the new curriculum is going to do just that - take away time from boards.

MUCOM has never even had students take boards but they give like a solid 8 weeks for boards, and on top of that, the spring semester before boards is super light, its basically just one giant course that integrates all that you have learned so far, so basically one big review.

I can't help but be tempted by the fact that they give so much free time for boards, and all of their rotations seem ridiculously promising and are all located close to the school campus (so I wouldn't have to move my wife and I).

And even before boards and rotations, most days their classes are done by noon (besides lab days). Contrast this to what I hear from current KCUMB students where they are 8-5 like every single day. That's just not enough time to study? And I am 100% an out of class kind of worker. Lectures are cool and all, but at least in undergrad my grades improved a lot when I stopped going to class and studying on my own or with a core group of friends.

As much as I liked MUCOM at my interview when it first started, I'd recommend going to KCUMB. At very least you'll have an alumni base and reputation to work from. You won't get that at MUCOM (probably in 5-10 yrs, just not right now).

I also get that you are concerned about the changing curriculum at KCUMB, but this happens at almost any school. If you think the curriculum won't significantly change at MUCOM after its first class takes boards in the spring, I assure you it will (this happens at almost every school). I wouldn't base my choice of med school on something that might change by the time you get there (e.g. amount of time off for board prep).

Here at LECOM, some people based their decision to attend on the idea that they could rotate at UPMC. When the whole Highmark/UPMC feud caused UPMC to drop all LECOM rotations (we can now rotate at 2 small UPMC community hospitals - not great, but better than nothing), everyone that based at least a part of their decision on that was up in arms. Stuff happens. Clinical sites (like some aspects of the pre-clinical curriculum) change pretty regularly at most DO schools, and even many MD schools. Don't make something like that your deciding factor for which school to attend.

That all said, if you can afford it, you might want to wait and see how things go with MUCOM. Maybe something will convince you one way or the other over the next couple months.

Dollars to donuts he'll front load 2nd year with the "hard" classes (e.g. renal) at the beginning and the easy stuff (e.g. behavioral) at the end, and let out early. Both Dubin and Hahn spent many years at TCOM, and it appears they're using the TCOM playbook.

Yeah, this is likely the case. People who are all about high scores always get that.

 

[IslandStyle808]

As much as I liked MUCOM at my interview when it first started, I'd recommend going to KCUMB. At very least you'll have an alumni base and reputation to work from. You won't get that at MUCOM (probably in 5-10 yrs, just not right now).

I also get that you are concerned about the changing curriculum at KCUMB, but this happens at almost any school. If you think the curriculum won't significantly change at MUCOM after its first class takes boards in the spring, I assure you it will (this happens at almost every school). I wouldn't base my choice of med school on something that might change by the time you get there (e.g. amount of time off for board prep).

Here at LECOM, some people based their decision to attend on the idea that they could rotate at UPMC. When the whole Highmark/UPMC feud caused UPMC to drop all LECOM rotations (we can now rotate at 2 small UPMC community hospitals - not great, but better than nothing), everyone that based at least a part of their decision on that was up in arms. Stuff happens. Clinical sites (like some aspects of the pre-clinical curriculum) change pretty regularly at most DO schools, and even many MD schools. Don't make something like that your deciding factor for which school to attend.

That all said, if you can afford it, you might want to wait and see how things go with MUCOM. Maybe something will convince you one way or the other over the next couple months.



Yeah, this is likely the case. People who are all about high scores always get that.

What do you think applicants should look for in a school considering the variability of the curriculum and rotation sites? Is there anything solid we can base our decision on?

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

As much as I liked MUCOM at my interview when it first started, I'd recommend going to KCUMB. At very least you'll have an alumni base and reputation to work from. You won't get that at MUCOM (probably in 5-10 yrs, just not right now).

I also get that you are concerned about the changing curriculum at KCUMB, but this happens at almost any school. If you think the curriculum won't significantly change at MUCOM after its first class takes boards in the spring, I assure you it will (this happens at almost every school). I wouldn't base my choice of med school on something that might change by the time you get there (e.g. amount of time off for board prep).

Here at LECOM, some people based their decision to attend on the idea that they could rotate at UPMC. When the whole Highmark/UPMC feud caused UPMC to drop all LECOM rotations (we can now rotate at 2 small UPMC community hospitals - not great, but better than nothing), everyone that based at least a part of their decision on that was up in arms. Stuff happens. Clinical sites (like some aspects of the pre-clinical curriculum) change pretty regularly at most DO schools, and even many MD schools. Don't make something like that your deciding factor for which school to attend.

That all said, if you can afford it, you might want to wait and see how things go with MUCOM. Maybe something will convince you one way or the other over the next couple months.



Yeah, this is likely the case. People who are all about high scores always get that.

Those are some really valid points. I suppose that makes sense, that pretty much every school will be constantly changing their curriculum.

Right now I am heavily leaning towards KCUMB. There have been a lot of awesome students at both places sending me PMs and for all those people, thank you. I can sit on SDN and google all of the greatest pros and cons of any school in the country. But in the end I felt at home at KCUMB and they seem to have the tools to get the job done. So I think I am going to swallow some of my neuroticism and just have faith.

I think I will just be more at home at KCUMB and with it being cheaper and better for my wife work wise (once we started looking more), it is pretty set in stone. I am just waiting to get the official fat envelope in the mail and then I will likely send in my deposit just to get this off my back.


Also in all honesty, even at the MD school that I work at, things appear pretty variable even with who is willing to be preceptors and whatnot. Some of those docs teaching seem horrible, while others seem amazing. So I will just worry about rotations when that time comes. No need to be worrying about that when it is years away, it will likely change by that time at most schools anyways....

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

No school is perfect man. Go to where you feel you fit. You're gonna get time to study for boards. Look at TCOM and what Dubin has done with it.

 

[Elevencents]

Just got an email. We have 3 weeks for a Kaplan review course in May and then 6 weeks of dedicated study time. That's hard to beat.

 

[th3v3rn]

Just got this email

Student doctors,

There seems to be some confusion regarding the time allotted to board preparation and the board review course in the KCUMB curriculum for Comlex I.


All second year students currently have access to the NBOME Level 1 Kaplan discipline review books (e.g., pharmacology, pathology, physiology, etc.) and the Kaplan online question bank. At the end of year 2, a Kaplan board review course will occur during 3 weeks in May, followed by 6 weeks of study time for boards. In total, all KCUMB students will have over 2 months to prepare for boards after courses have completed

This is the plan for all KCUMB COM students going forward.

Please contact me if you have any questions.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Just got an email. We have 3 weeks for a Kaplan review course in May and then 6 weeks of dedicated study time. That's hard to beat.

daannnnnnnng

Absolutely, thats very hard to beat. Thank you so much for mentioning it on here!

 

[costales]

No school is perfect man. Go to where you feel you fit. You're gonna get time to study for boards. Look at TCOM and what Dubin has done with it.

Hmm. TCOM has been around since 1970. It had already produced thousands of successful graduates, and was already ranked in the top 50 medical schools in primary care, before Dr Dubin arrived. His biggest accomplishment at TCOM was to establish a rural medicine track, for which he received an AOA Educator of the Year award. He was promoted to interim dean in 2009 but moved to RVU the same year, so he didn't spend that much time in the dean's chair. He kinda just happened to be at the right place at the right time. (Well, he also exhorted students to take the COMLEX seriously, which they did in spectacular fashion - in spite of the fact that most TCOM students study for the USMLE and go to ACGME residencies.) Dr Dubin is a great guy and all, but he wasn't a miracle worker who single-handedly transformed TCOM, contrary to the myth created by some folks.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Hmm. TCOM has been around since 1970. It had already produced thousands of successful graduates, and was already ranked in the top 50 medical schools in primary care, before Dr Dubin arrived. His biggest accomplishment was to establish a rural medicine track, for which he received an AOA Educator of the Year award. He was promoted to interim dean in 2009 but moved to RVU the same year, so he didn't spend that much time in the dean's chair. He kinda just happened to be at the right place at the right time. (Well, he also exhorted students to take the COMLEX seriously, which they did in spectacular fashion - in spite of the fact that most TCOM students study for the USMLE and go to ACGME residencies.) Dr Dubin is a great guy and all, but he wasn't a miracle worker who single-handedly transformed TCOM, contrary to the myth created by some folks.

Good to know! Thanks!

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Hmm. TCOM has been around since 1970. It had already produced thousands of successful graduates, and was already ranked in the top 50 medical schools in primary care, before Dr Dubin arrived. His biggest accomplishment at TCOM was to establish a rural medicine track, for which he received an AOA Educator of the Year award. He was promoted to interim dean in 2009 but moved to RVU the same year, so he didn't spend that much time in the dean's chair. He kinda just happened to be at the right place at the right time. (Well, he also exhorted students to take the COMLEX seriously, which they did in spectacular fashion - in spite of the fact that most TCOM students study for the USMLE and go to ACGME residencies.) Dr Dubin is a great guy and all, but he wasn't a miracle worker who single-handedly transformed TCOM, contrary to the myth created by some folks.

I have heard similar things. Seems like TCOM was sort of always pretty strong. But they have some solid resources and a good location to help. Not to mention Texas in general is good to their people...

However, seems like he definitely helped out RVU as far as I have heard? The feel I get was that he definitely was a role in shipping it into shape.

When I visited, Dubin struck me as a guy whose life physically depends on the well being of his students - even if it hurts him, or even if he ends up coming off like a jerk because of it. I would truly stick by that... However, I guess I have a little reservation about the fact that he has moved around so much. I mean maybe it really is coincidence or some absurd offer that one could not rightly refuse. But at the same time I am worried that a fatter check is going to come from somewhere else (can anyone say MUCOM which seems to be loaded and buying up all the professors from other schools). I would love to have the same dean throughout all 4 years, or at least 2 years. That would be cool.

 

[costales]

Dr Dubin is a good man and a great motivator. He left TCOM because RVU gave him an offer he couldn't refuse - hiring Dr Dubin was a genius move by RVU from a marketing and operational standpoint - plus his boss Dr Hahn had been forced out due to internal politics related to the MD school proposal. I think he will stay there a while, and he will retire after this gig.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Dr Dubin is a good man and a great motivator. He left TCOM because RVU gave him an offer he couldn't refuse - hiring Dr Dubin was a genius move by RVU from a marketing and operational standpoint - plus his boss Dr Hahn had been forced out due to internal politics related to the MD school proposal. I think he will stay there a while, and he will retire after this gig.

So wait, both Hahn and Dubin left RVU and went to KCUMB? I thought Hahn was from UNECOM? Though it looks like they both worked together at TCOM?

 

[costales]

They worked together for 6 years at TCOM. Dr Hahn then moved to UNECOM, and Dr Dubin moved to RVU shortly thereafter.

 

[costales]

Yep. Minus the smooching.

 

[SnowDoggy44]

I hear the 2nd year class will be getting an update presentation on clinical clerkships tomorrow (Tuesday). It is supposed to include many changes, especially to the KC core site. Hopefully someone from that class will post here about what is presented.

 

[AlteredScale]

I hear the 2nd year class will be getting an update presentation on clinical clerkships tomorrow (Tuesday). It is supposed to include many changes, especially to the KC core site. Hopefully someone from that class will post here about what is presented.

Really looking forward to hear about this as an incoming OMS-I!