A disturbing trend among students on rotations

[BenJammin]

I have noticed something among my interns that has me wondering. Maybe my experience is different but more and more of my interns are buying me gifts.

You may be asking yourself "Ben why the hell are you complaining about gifts" but it makes me wonder. I don't remember giving my rotation sites gifts, in fact the complete opposite. Most of the sites I worked at gave me gifts like a hospital mug, pens, gift cards, handwritten letters, etc. But for the last year I've noticed every single intern has bought me something. I got a cool UT mug, a glass Bevo ornament, a bunch of Texas Tech pens, glassware, and FOOD! This is awesome! But where is this generosity coming from? Are the students taught to do this? I wasn't taught to do this and I didn't know of any other classmates who gave stuff to their preceptor when I was in school.

Anybody else get gifts from interns?

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[bulldog1123]

Schools are portraying intern sites as a holy ground. Many treat it like a potential interview (as they should). Plus they receive a grade from you as well. I'm not surprised that many will try to get or remain in your good grace with a gifts. I for one have not given any of my IPPE preceptors any gifts. I however did show up early to my rotations daily and worked diligently and hard during my time there. I'm pretty sure they would prefer an intern who knew what he was doing and did his job to relieve work load over a box of chocolates but what do I know?

 

[steveysmith54]

I get small gifts as well. I have always given gifts to my preceptors. Why? BC unless they are college profs, they aren't getting paid to have me. Some places I felt like I was guest in their house. They gave me their precious time, effort to teach me, and their resources.

I thought that the disturbing trend that you will bring up is more stupid students, which may be true.

 

[owlegrad]

I usually brought home made goodies like cookies but it was mostly just a way to make friends/get on people's good side and hopefully keep any issues with staff from popping up.

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[njac]

It makes me so uncomfortable. So many Starbucks gift cards.

It started when I was a PGY2 resident precepting students. We had a Dunkin Donuts on campus and they gave us gift cards for coffee. Over the last 7 years I've noticed the gifts getting larger and more grandiose.

I think bringing cookies or donuts on the last day is totally reasonable, but a $25 gift card is excessive and awkward.


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[y0ssarian87]

I think there's pressure to do this mostly from other students. I never would've even considered getting gifts for preceptors until older classmates talked about how they do it. And then students in my class talked about it more and more. Granted, I still don't do it. I think it's inappropriate, and I get an uncomfortable bribe-y feeling from it. Several of my students are more extravagant in giving gifts to potential LOR writers and employers. When I see that, it feels so contrived. I'm definitely not a fan.

Now, I'll definitely do something for my fellowship LOR writers. They have written so many letters for me over the years -- internship apps, scholarship apps, a dual degree program, and fellowship apps. They have spent many, many hours helping me get to the next step, and I'm truly so grateful. But I feel that's different. Perhaps it's not.


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[CetiAlphaFive]

I have noticed something among my interns that has me wondering. Maybe my experience is different but more and more of my interns are buying me gifts.

You may be asking yourself "Ben why the hell are you complaining about gifts" but it makes me wonder. I don't remember giving my rotation sites gifts, in fact the complete opposite. Most of the sites I worked at gave me gifts like a hospital mug, pens, gift cards, handwritten letters, etc. But for the last year I've noticed every single intern has bought me something. I got a cool UT mug, a glass Bevo ornament, a bunch of Texas Tech pens, glassware, and FOOD! This is awesome! But where is this generosity coming from? Are the students taught to do this? I wasn't taught to do this and I didn't know of any other classmates who gave stuff to their preceptor when I was in school.

Anybody else get gifts from interns?

It was the opposite for me.
Preceptors bought me lunch, and usually threw a pizza party on my last day.

One super awesome preceptor even invited me to her husband's brewery, where I got the VIP treatment. Great rotation & clinician too.

I did take one preceptor doughnuts occasionally after graduation just to keep in touch

 

[Dalteparin]

I'm pretty sure they would prefer an intern who knew what he was doing and did his job to relieve work load over a box of chocolates but what do I know?

Sounds like you know how to pick a good employer! Yes, treat rotation sites as an interview, but you want the employer to hire you because you're smart and hardworking, not because you gave the boss the chocolates s/he likes.


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[PharmtoCS]

I'm not surprised about the rent seeking behavior given the push toward networking over professional competence and the mantra "it's not what you know, it's who you know." Why work hard to become a good pharmacist when bribing your preceptor is more likely to land you that job or residency LOR?

 

[trailerpark]

I never gave any gifts.


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[lane one]

I was expecting this thread to be a little more disturbing.

 

[farmadiazepine]

I get small gifts as well. I have always given gifts to my preceptors. Why? BC unless they are college profs, they aren't getting paid to have me. Some places I felt like I was guest in their house. They gave me their precious time, effort to teach me, and their resources.

I thought that the disturbing trend that you will bring up is more stupid students, which may be true.

Actually some preceptors do get paid to have you. In my hospital, none of the clinical pharmacists teach at a school. They work strictly for the hospital. For every rotation student they take on, they get paid directly.

 

[steveysmith54]

Actually some preceptors do get paid to have you. In my hospital, none of the clinical pharmacists teach at a school. They work strictly for the hospital. For every rotation student they take on, they get paid directly.

True. I think that newer schools are paying for sites. My school and the hospital where I work does not take money from schools.

 

[Digsbe]

I didn't ever give a gift, if I did it was paying tuition to do tech work for free on some rotations.

Schools bloat up how you need to act your best on rotation. Their message isn't wrong, but in a way sometimes it comes across as "make sure you leave a good impression on the school and treat the site like royalty, your experience and education comes secondary to having them like you and the school." Plus since you do get a grade and a preceptor does have the power to fail you I guess many see it as a little bribe right before their final evaluation. Who knows. I was always respectful and professional on my rotations, but I never thought of giving a gift because honestly I think it comes across as bribery and not really appropriate.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

Sure as hell didn't give gifts to my IPPE. The fact that I'm PAYING to be there and giving you free labor is enough of a gift, hell the majority of these places just make you count by 5s all day (same with several APPEs).

I did write a couple letters to APPE sites (hospitals), thanking them for the opportunity if the preceptor actually did well and took the time to teach. That is it.

 

[ldiot]

I have noticed something among my interns that has me wondering. Maybe my experience is different but more and more of my interns are buying me gifts.

You may be asking yourself "Ben why the hell are you complaining about gifts" but it makes me wonder. I don't remember giving my rotation sites gifts, in fact the complete opposite. Most of the sites I worked at gave me gifts like a hospital mug, pens, gift cards, handwritten letters, etc. But for the last year I've noticed every single intern has bought me something. I got a cool UT mug, a glass Bevo ornament, a bunch of Texas Tech pens, glassware, and FOOD! This is awesome! But where is this generosity coming from? Are the students taught to do this? I wasn't taught to do this and I didn't know of any other classmates who gave stuff to their preceptor when I was in school.

Anybody else get gifts from interns?

I've never done this or heard of students doing this, and honestly I'd be afraid that it looks like I'm trying to kiss ass for a good grade or trying to get a job lined up. I can almost guarantee you that the school is recommending or requiring it if all of the students are doing it.

 

[mik30102]

During APPEs I got donuts for the office on my last day for two different sites along with a card. I did it since at least personally many of my sites were not the best and I wanted to make sure I thanked those that truly took pride in teaching me. I think its a nice gesture if a student felt their site went that extra mile. Not really a big cost either, think I spent like $20 each time.

 

[babybull]

i gave gifts to every single one of my preceptors but only out of pressure from other rotation students to chip in on expensive lotions and other beauty products

 

[croquemonsieur]

I was and am still drowning in debt. I thanked them by doing all of their scut work.

 

[PharmhopefulNC]

I sent each of my preceptors a university notecard with what I considered to be a professional thank you for their time, and tried to highlight a few of the experiences I found to be especially fulfilling.

After working my absolute a$$ off on each and every rotation, I gave only one gift - to the one preceptor that treated me like absolute crap day in and day out, like nothing I've ever experienced before or after. While walking to meetings she'd be 3 steps ahead of me in the hallway as I ran to keep up. Practically everything I said was met with a sigh and a roll of the eyes. I worked for weeks on my final presentation, practiced in front of my mirror, my husband and my coworkers. She accused me of reading from the slides, which even now makes my blood boil. She hated me and I hated her, but I kept smiling. On the final day I gave her a Starbucks card with $20 written on the back. Oh, but I forgot to actually load it and it was worthless. (It was my husband's idea). Still gives me a thread of satisfaction.


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[gwarm01]

I sent each of my preceptors a university notecard with what I considered to be a professional thank you for their time, and tried to highlight a few of the experiences I found to be especially fulfilling.

After working my absolute a$$ off on each and every rotation, I gave only one gift - to the one preceptor that treated me like absolute crap day in and day out, like nothing I've ever experienced before or after. While walking to meetings she'd be 3 steps ahead of me in the hallway as I ran to keep up. Practically everything I said was met with a sigh and a roll of the eyes. I worked for weeks on my final presentation, practiced in front of my mirror, my husband and my coworkers. She accused me of reading from the slides, which even now makes my blood boil. She hated me and I hated her, but I kept smiling. On the final day I gave her a Starbucks card with $20 written on the back. Oh, but I forgot to actually load it and it was worthless. (It was my husband's idea). Still gives me a thread of satisfaction.


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I should have done this to the one preceptor who constantly told me I was going a great job, then tossed me a midpoint eval full of 1s and 2s out of 5. I got called by the Dean to explain myself. We were all shocked since every single other site had said I was very professional, hard working, and a team player. I still don't know what her problem was to this day.

 

[PharmhopefulNC]

I should have done this to the one preceptor who constantly told me I was going a great job, then tossed me a midpoint eval full of 1s and 2s out of 5. I got called by the Dean to explain myself. We were all shocked since every single other site had said I was very professional, hard working, and a team player. I still don't know what her problem was to this day.

I feel your pain. This one surprised me with a good midpoint but then gave me a C- as a final grade. As we walked out that final day to leave, as we approached the elevator I turned to say goodbye and thank you and she literally just kept walking. Hahahahhaha. Bee-och.


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[lord999]

I should have done this to the one preceptor who constantly told me I was going a great job, then tossed me a midpoint eval full of 1s and 2s out of 5. I got called by the Dean to explain myself. We were all shocked since every single other site had said I was very professional, hard working, and a team player. I still don't know what her problem was to this day.

(Joking)
You shouldn't have turned down the ménage à trois.

(Not joking)
I've always been surprised at the level of retaliation involved for turning down "favors", and it's so blatant.

I was expecting this thread to be a little more disturbing.

Office of Legal Counsel specifically orders me not to talk about it, but I totally get what you have in mind. I put in the syllabus that they are not to give me even token gifts due to the OGE and the Antideficiency Act issues it brings up. I will buy meals to celebrate the ends of rotations, but that's inclusive of the whole staff.

 

[ldiot]

I sent each of my preceptors a university notecard with what I considered to be a professional thank you for their time, and tried to highlight a few of the experiences I found to be especially fulfilling.

After working my absolute a$$ off on each and every rotation, I gave only one gift - to the one preceptor that treated me like absolute crap day in and day out, like nothing I've ever experienced before or after. While walking to meetings she'd be 3 steps ahead of me in the hallway as I ran to keep up. Practically everything I said was met with a sigh and a roll of the eyes. I worked for weeks on my final presentation, practiced in front of my mirror, my husband and my coworkers. She accused me of reading from the slides, which even now makes my blood boil. She hated me and I hated her, but I kept smiling. On the final day I gave her a Starbucks card with $20 written on the back. Oh, but I forgot to actually load it and it was worthless. (It was my husband's idea). Still gives me a thread of satisfaction.


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Lol hope you had already submitted your eval before you sent it. Here's a good one for you... I was about 8 minutes late to a rotation due to a literal blizzard. Normally an hour drive to this stupid rotation... I left 30 minutes early and was still late. Traffic was at about 10 mph in a 70 zone. Couldn't even see 5 feet in front of me not to mention it was still dark. So I finally get to my rotation site and my preceptor pulls in BEHIND me (also LATE). We say hi and walk in together. I do all of the pharmacist's grunt work as usual and at the end of the day I'm half way out the door and the preceptor says "by the way I'm going to have to submit a professionalism concern to the school because you were late". I literally though she was joking until I got an email from the school a few days later but after I explained it they didn't seem to care. I guess we will see what my evals look like but it's an IPPE which is almost impossible to fail unless you don't show up.

 

[gwarm01]

(Joking)
You shouldn't have turned down the ménage à trois.

Damn.. it all seems so obvious now. She was pulling a classic pick-up artist move by trying to neg me. Live and learn I suppose.

 

[ChalupaBatman86]

The disturbing trend is gifts?? I came here expecting to see stories of snorting Ritalin and boozing on the job.


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[gwarm01]

The disturbing trend is gifts?? I came here expecting to see stories of snorting Ritalin and boozing on the job.


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Pssshhh.. that's just standard impaired pharmacist behavior. I'd be more concerned if students WEREN'T doing that.

Here's a concerning story: hearing students try to convince themselves that more pharmacies are opening than ever and the job market is about to explode. You try to give them a realistic view of the situation and they just brush it off.

 

[Varianiq]

i gave gifts to every single one of my preceptors but only out of pressure from other rotation students to chip in on expensive lotions and other beauty products

Wow, I wouldn't accept any expensive stuff if I was a preceptor. Most of my preceptors bought me lunch or brought pastries for me on the last day. Feels like I should be grateful for not having any crazy preceptor so far.

 

[confettiflyer]

When I was a student, I sometimes brought doughnuts or other divisible food product for the pharmacy staff on my last day. And by sometimes, I mean probably twice out of 6 rotations (some I had zero interaction with central staff). Preceptors got a handwritten thank-you note. Gifts were relegated to my LOR writers, even then, I spent < $20 on the actual gift itself. Preceptors usually took ME out for lunch on the last day.

I haven't noticed a definitive trend on my end... but our students are definitely baking more and bringing that in (that's fine).

I'll usually buy my students coffee and/or lunch on the last day. Like @njac said above, any gifts from students can be awkward as hell. I know what I make, I know what they make, it's like getting an extravagant gift from your financially challenged friends. Like, thanks...I appreciate the thought, but you need this more than I do!

 

[297point1]

I should have done this to the one preceptor who constantly told me I was going a great job, then tossed me a midpoint eval full of 1s and 2s out of 5. I got called by the Dean to explain myself. We were all shocked since every single other site had said I was very professional, hard working, and a team player. I still don't know what her problem was to this day.

Typical passive aggressive pharmacist. Which is representative of about 90% of us collectively. We really are the worst when it comes to this.

 

[BenJammin]

I sent each of my preceptors a university notecard with what I considered to be a professional thank you for their time, and tried to highlight a few of the experiences I found to be especially fulfilling.

After working my absolute a$$ off on each and every rotation, I gave only one gift - to the one preceptor that treated me like absolute crap day in and day out, like nothing I've ever experienced before or after. While walking to meetings she'd be 3 steps ahead of me in the hallway as I ran to keep up. Practically everything I said was met with a sigh and a roll of the eyes. I worked for weeks on my final presentation, practiced in front of my mirror, my husband and my coworkers. She accused me of reading from the slides, which even now makes my blood boil. She hated me and I hated her, but I kept smiling. On the final day I gave her a Starbucks card with $20 written on the back. Oh, but I forgot to actually load it and it was worthless. (It was my husband's idea). Still gives me a thread of satisfaction.


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Funny story but can I be honest with you? The preceptor probably tried to use it, get told it was empty, and thought to herself "the student can't even get gifts right, she really was worthless". From my experience, what really gets preceptors is a poor evaluation that constantly mentions your name. Instead of "this rotation was terrible. He didn't really show an interest in me as a student. I hope he feels bad for being a poor preceptor" you need to say "Ben's rotation was terrible. Ben didn't show any interest in being a preceptor."

Worst evaluation I've ever read was from a student who was balls to the wall angry at one of the pharmacists I worked with. I'm not quoting word for word but it was something like "Instead of going over the wonders of clinical pharmacy, this preceptor chose to bore me with stories about her husband's daily flesh wounds and how horny her teenage daughter is at school. Her midpoint evaluation falsely claimed that I wasn't paying attention during the resident presentation when I was actually taking notes and doing calculations with another pharmacist (it was me haha). This rotation has been by far the worst rotation I've been on this school year and I feel sorry for students who cycle through this rotation site with her. She is a terrible preceptor and future students stand to lose their mind and gain absolutely nothing of value. I hope she will do the right thing and cease accepting students."

She cried like a little baby after reading it.

 

[Amicable Angora]

Considering how terrible most preceptors are, and assuming you're a good one, you're getting gifts because the interns are genuinely appreciative of not being treated like a little *****

 

[PromisedNeverland]

It makes me so uncomfortable. So many Starbucks gift cards.

It started when I was a PGY2 resident precepting students. We had a Dunkin Donuts on campus and they gave us gift cards for coffee. Over the last 7 years I've noticed the gifts getting larger and more grandiose.

I think bringing cookies or donuts on the last day is totally reasonable, but a $25 gift card is excessive and awkward.


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uncomfortable my ass .. your insides probably screaming with joy for the free diabetes from starbucks

 

[confettiflyer]

uncomfortable my ass .. your insides probably screaming with joy for the free diabetes from starbucks

njac is too much of a hipster to drink that kind of drivel 🤣


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[PolarPop]

I went to school in the SW and we never got our preceptors anything. But since I came to a hospital in the NE the students get us gifts all the time. Even the guy who my coresident failed (and he knew he failed) brought in donuts for the whole office.

 

[Chriskahn]

Never heard of anyone giving their preceptor gifts. Maybe a thank you card but not actual gifts. I feel like its the other way around. Ive gotten so many water bottles, pens, t shirts, fridge magnets, etc from various IPPE rotations. One kid in my class even got a duffel bag full of goodies from his site when he was done.

 

[Corpseman]

If I had a good preceptor I bought various things throughout the rotation like breakfast burritos, doughnuts, coffee, and what not. It really isn't a big deal, because out of my 7 preceptors less than half were worth buying anything for.

 

[Pharmgrlnxdor]

Oh, I have one that is pretty good too. It was my institutional rotation, rotation #6 out of 7, at a badly run hospital known for mainly its indigent population. It was the very first day of the rotation, and it was like 20 below windchill with a recent snowfall (middle of the night) and snow plows had not even been able to make a dent. The roads were snowy on top of a nice thick layer of ice....driving was treacherous. Normally it would take me 45 minutes to get to the rotation site, but due to the weather, and not wanting to get in a wreck, I left a solid 2 hours, and 15 minutes before my start time. Good thing too, because I got there with like 4 minutes to spare. This was due to having to drive like no faster than 20 miles an hour all the way there. After white knuckling it all the way there, I find my way down to the basement pharmacy, get let in, only to find out that 90% of the pharmacy is not there, they have called in because of the weather. This is techs, staff pharmacists, clinical pharmacists, director of the pharmacy, like everyone. Out of the three students on rotations expected to show up that day, 2 of us make it there and ahead of schedule. About an hour later the clinical coordinator (our preceptor) arrives and introduces herself. Thirty minutes later we are in a brief meeting to discuss the rotation and the expectations. She literally spends 15 minutes of the 30 minute meeting talking to us about professionalism, specifically being on time, working hard, being reliable. At one point she has to take a phone call, and while she is out of the room, the other student and I look at each other, as if to say, can you believe this? Not a single word was mentioned about how we both showed up, and ahead of our time, when 9 out of 10 of her paid staff did not. Nothing like being lectured on being professional when you clearly show that you already are.

 

[sakigt]

As a student I brought bagels on my last day.

As a preceptor as long as they are good students I let them leave hella early their last day. Even when they aren't mine.

 

[bulldog1123]

So this is a disturbing change to this disturbing trend. I just had my last day at IPPE and my preceptor brought ME a cake.

 

[ldiot]

That had to be a joke

No joke. My rotation is almost over and I think I've only seen my preceptor on like 3 of the days anyways. She has like 10 billion students, I'm beginning to think it's part of their business model to get as many students as possible to do their tech work. Somehow I talked my way into following one the clinical pharmacists around for the rest of my rotation and she's really nice at least.

 

[gwarm01]

So this is a disturbing change to this disturbing trend. I just had my last day at IPPE and my preceptor brought ME a cake.

My of my rotations ended with the preceptor taking me to lunch or at least sending me home early. I think that's the expectation!

 

[ldiot]

Yeah most of mine so far ended with me just leaving an hour early lol. One of the retail grocery guys tried to hire me but he was the type of guy always looking over your shoulder and collecting people's cell phone so I was like no thanks...

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Yeah most of mine so far ended with me just leaving an hour early lol. One of the retail grocery guys tried to hire me but he was the type of guy always looking over your shoulder and collecting people's cell phone so I was like no thanks...

Hahaha, what an HR nightmare.

Why do people like that get into this field?

 

[Slippers]

Gifts? Good lord. I never gave my preceptor a gift. It would feel strange. One student I was with brought donuts for everyone on the last day of rotation, but they were for everyone. I showed my appreciation by putting effort into the rotation. In any case, I was paying them tuition money for the experience.

It honestly doesn't surprise me, though. Suck ups.

 

[Chodronfan]

I haven't gotten any gifts. I have only had about 5 interns in 7 years tho. I do give every student a gift at the end of their rotation-the latest edition of Tarascon's pocket guide 🙂

 

[hurx]

I can agree that working hard, learning, put in effort is the best thing you can do on rotations. I would much rather have a student do that than give me a gift.

I did that on rotations but also gave my second to last preceptor a nice but very inexpensive gift. Almost all of my rotations had treated me like extra tech help. This preceptor taught me A LOT, some of which I use at my current job. She also wrote me a good number of recommendations. Other preceptors I liked just got a thank you card for volunteering (my school did not pay preceptors) their extra time to precept.

Oh, also the thank you card/gift was given on the last day after my final evaluation so it didn't look like a "bribe".

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[Folfirinox]

We were given a talk about gift giving at my school and that it wasn't necessary after someone bought their preceptor an elaborate gift basket. Once one person starts buying gifts, it spreads like wildfire.

 

[Nguyen]

All I know is I ain't bringing jack to any APPE rotations starting this summer.


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[confettiflyer]

+ 1 for letting students leave early on their last day. Normal students get an hour, the best students get to leave at lunch! What a gift! Hahah


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