A few questions for MD/PhD applicants?

[goodkarma]

Hey SDNers, this is my first post, so go easy on me! =) I originally posted it to the allopathic forum before being directed here!

Of all the information out there on medical school, I've found relatively little on MD/PhD programs. What I have found is on the individual program's websites, the AAMC site, this site, and this ghetto MSAR.

That being said, I know it would be helpful for me to have a resource here if not just a place to commiserate. If anyone could comment on any of my questions or post more resources for MD/PhD applicants, I'd really appreciate it!

1) This probably varies from school to school, but are interviews any different for MD/PhDs? Obviously, they will probably focus on research more, but should interviewees be prepared to give a presentation (like for grad. school) or at least a chalk talk? Is it appropriate to request an interview or meeting with a potential preceptor that you are interested in?

2) Are there any resources out there similar to the MSAR for MD/PhDs?

3) I have two interviews so far coming up in December and January. I called the admissions offices for each to inquire about admissions statistics. During both calls, the admissions person told me off the record that, if denied to the MD/PhD program, I would almost certainly be getting an acceptance to the MD program. At first, it sounded too good to be true, but after being told the same thing a second time, I coundn't ignore it. Is this common? Can anyone verify that some admissions work this way?

4) How big is the difference between MSTP and non-MSTP programs? I have interviews at both and both institutions have research I could potentially see myself becoming involved in.

5) Most programs with MD consideration say that your application to the MD/PhD program, if denied, will not hurt your application to the MD program. However, I'm on hold for the MD/PhD program at a few places. If they wait to deny me, I won't be thrown into the MD applicant pool until way late in the game. Won't this hurt me and others in a similar situation?

6) Finally, can any current MD/PhDs comment on their experiences? The positives and negatives, the differing time commitment from your MD or PhD classmates, how to stay immersed in research while in your clinical years and vice versa?

Thanks everyone!

EDIT: So I found many answers here and here (sorry for being a noob to SDN!), but if anyone has any other comments, particularly for question #3, I'd appreciate it!

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[FalconSlice]

3) I have two interviews so far coming up in December and January. I called the admissions offices for each to inquire about admissions statistics. During both calls, the admissions person told me off the record that, if denied to the MD/PhD program, I would almost certainly be getting an acceptance to the MD program. At first, it sounded too good to be true, but after being told the same thing a second time, I coundn't ignore it. Is this common? Can anyone verify that some admissions work this way?

Umm... I don't think that is true at all. Speaking from experience. Just because you are rejected from MD/PhD doesn't mean you will most likely get accepted MD. Plus many schools do it different anyway. And btw, if what those people told you were true, everyone would apply MD/PhD, get rejected from it and get accepted into the MD program. Things don't happen that easily.

 

[CrossCurrent]

Umm... I don't think that is true at all. Speaking from experience. Just because you are rejected from MD/PhD doesn't mean you will most likely get accepted MD. Plus many schools do it different anyway. And btw, if what those people told you were true, everyone would apply MD/PhD, get rejected from it and get accepted into the MD program. Things don't happen that easily.

I think that goodkarma meant that most interviewed applicants get MD acceptances even if they don't get accepted to the MD/PhD- those rejected outright likely don't fare as well...

 

[FalconSlice]

I think that goodkarma meant that most interviewed applicants get MD acceptances even if they don't get accepted to the MD/PhD- those rejected outright likely don't fare as well...

Even in that case, still not true, i believe. Many schools have md/phd only committees that have no ties to the Md process. schools might interview 100+ applicants for <20 positions. Still doesn't make sense to accept ca. 80 md/phd rejected applicants to the md program. or maybe i am still misunderstood...

 

[HopeItWorksOut]

Even in that case, still not true, i believe. Many schools have md/phd only committees that have no ties to the Md process. schools might interview 100+ applicants for <20 positions. Still doesn't make sense to accept ca. 80 md/phd rejected applicants to the md program. or maybe i am still misunderstood...

I am unsure about this as well. However, for some MD-PhD programs you have to get the green light for the MD portion before you can qualify for the MD-PhD. Not all programs do this. I assume that on your interview day for the MD-PhD program you will also be interviewing for the MD program. Most schools have an MD-PhD (2 faculty) and one MD (faculty). That is how it has been for some of the interviews I had. Therefore, I would assume that you still need to interview well for the MD and the MD-PhD program. It just seems that there's one less hurdle to overcome if just being accepted to the MD program rather than the MD-PhD. However, your chances of getting an MD acceptance after the interview are the same as everyone else applying to the MD program. Plus it may appear that candidates competing for MD-PhD spots may be more likely to be accepted for the MD spot because their GPAs, MCATs, and research tend to be more competitive anyhow.

 

[goodkarma]

I suppose I should eleborate a bit. The schools were UIC and Loyola.

UIC told me that the MD/PhD applicants start off in the MD/PhD specific committee. If they eventual get denied to the program, their application is sent to the MD committee, which judges their applicants using a points system. Apparently, the MD committee gives points to applicants who just apply to the MD/PhD program and then more points if they are interviewed for the MD/PhD program. She told me that with all those extra points, as long as you have a favorable interview, you are pretty much accepted to the MD program.

Loyola's MD committee pre-screens MD/PhD applicants and sends the ones they like to the MD/PhD committee, who is in charge of interviewing and accepting/denying. Here, I was told they almost all applicants who get denied to the MD/PhD program get accepted to the MD program because they have basically been unofficially screened already.

I guess the lesson here is everyone does it very differently. I was just wondering if this sort of thing was common or not. I was hoping that maybe people who were re-applying this year could shed some light on the issue and maybe give their thought process on why they chose to re-apply if they had only MD acceptances.

 

[curiousgeo]

Even in that case, still not true, i believe. Many schools have md/phd only committees that have no ties to the Md process. schools might interview 100+ applicants for <20 positions. Still doesn't make sense to accept ca. 80 md/phd rejected applicants to the md program. or maybe i am still misunderstood...

What school interviews 100+ MSTP applicants?
More like 60 applicants. And accept 20 to get 10 to matriculate. Very high chance most of the other 40 are accepted MD.

 

[Neuronix]

What school interviews 100+ MSTP applicants?
More like 60 applicants. And accept 20 to get 10 to matriculate. Very high chance most of the other 40 are accepted MD.

The ones with 20+ spots interview 100+. Penn, WashU come to mind.

 

[curiousgeo]

The ones with 20+ spots interview 100+. Penn, WashU come to mind.

You're absolutely right! I'd forgotten how big those programs were. But they will presumably accept >40 in order to matriculate such a huge class. And the remainder are much more likely to be accepted MD-only.

 

[red doctober]

Penn's policy is to not consider MD/PhD applicants for the MD-only program: http://www.med.upenn.edu/mstp/admission.shtml.

WashU allows you to designate whether or not to be placed in the MD-only pool if you aren't considered for MD/PhD: http://mstp.wustl.edu/admissions/Pages/FAQ.aspx
Many people choose "no," to this for various reasons. Some just want to do MD/PhD. Others think it may affect your chances at MD/PhD.

 

[HopeItWorksOut]

I suppose I should eleborate a bit. The schools were UIC and Loyola.

UIC told me that the MD/PhD applicants start off in the MD/PhD specific committee. If they eventual get denied to the program, their application is sent to the MD committee, which judges their applicants using a points system. Apparently, the MD committee gives points to applicants who just apply to the MD/PhD program and then more points if they are interviewed for the MD/PhD program. She told me that with all those extra points, as long as you have a favorable interview, you are pretty much accepted to the MD program.

Loyola's MD committee pre-screens MD/PhD applicants and sends the ones they like to the MD/PhD committee, who is in charge of interviewing and accepting/denying. Here, I was told they almost all applicants who get denied to the MD/PhD program get accepted to the MD program because they have basically been unofficially screened already.

I guess the lesson here is everyone does it very differently. I was just wondering if this sort of thing was common or not. I was hoping that maybe people who were re-applying this year could shed some light on the issue and maybe give their thought process on why they chose to re-apply if they had only MD acceptances.

If this is the case then I am very happy to be interviewing at UIC this Monday

 

[goodkarma]

If this is the case then I am very happy to be interviewing at UIC this Monday

You might be interested to hear their statistics...

UIC gets ~200 applicants, interviews 40 to 50, sends out 10 to 15 inital acceptances to fill a class of 6 to 8. Admissions said if they think someone is a perfect fit, they will send the acceptance 1 to 2 weeks after the interview. Otherwise, they rank the interviewees and send out the rest of the acceptances after all the interviews are finished (late January/early February). The person I spoke to said last year they made it down to #25.

Good luck on your interview! Let me know how it goes! UIC's my top choice!

 

[goodkarma]

What school interviews 100+ MSTP applicants?
More like 60 applicants. And accept 20 to get 10 to matriculate. Very high chance most of the other 40 are accepted MD.

I agree. I think its plausible that some schools could extend MD acceptances to many of their MD/PhD interviewees. Programs with ~20 spots interview about 100, with ~8 spots interview ~50 (Ex. UIC), with ~3 spots interview ~20 (Ex. Loyola/Stritch).

Most schools send 2 to 2.5 acceptances for every 1 spot they have available, so for example, if UIC accepted the ~42 applicants that got denied from the MD/PhD, only ~20 or less would actually matriculate. In an MD class of 300+, that's not that many.

This probably only applies to the schools who pass MD/PhD denials on to the MD committee.I know some only allow you to apply on one program an application cycle; others have no correspondence between committees, etc.

Or I could have a case of over-analysis and wishful thinking.

 

[VassarGrad]

Hi all,
I am hoping you can offer some guidance to this issue.

I initially applied MD only on my primaries (which I submitted in late June), sent out all my secondaries (early to mid August), but then decided to go ahead with MD/PhD and switched my primary app designation. I had 1 MD interview before I switched it, then switched it and had 3 MD/PhD interviews, but now it's been silent. One school (NYU) just emailed me two days ago to say they'd just completed my file, despite everything being in months ago, and three schools (Yale, JHU, Umiami) emailed me to double check if I was MD or MD/PhD because there was contradictions now between my primary and secondary apps.

I'm really afraid the switch may have screwed things up for me, as now schools may have conflicting data and this may be a turn off to them. Should I email everywhere I applied to confirm I am an MD/PhD applicant? I was going to send in updates anyways about new papers/conferences, so perhaps I should do it all in one email? Will this screw me up as well for being processed in a timely fashion?

Any input helps!

 

[delirium81]

I think your idea to re-iterate that you're an MD/PhD candidate at the same time that you send out an update e-mail is a good one. I don't know if it will affect whether or not you're processed in a timely fashion.

But more to the point, what changed your mind? I think a lot of admissions committees would be worried about a last minute change like this. It seems a bit flighty and like you're not sure about your decisions. I'm not saying that is the case for you because I currently know nothing about you or your motivations, but you should make sure that you have a really good explanation lined up for this change of heart.

 

[VassarGrad]

I think your idea to re-iterate that you're an MD/PhD candidate at the same time that you send out an update e-mail is a good one. I don't know if it will affect whether or not you're processed in a timely fashion.

But more to the point, what changed your mind? I think a lot of admissions committees would be worried about a last minute change like this. It seems a bit flighty and like you're not sure about your decisions. I'm not saying that is the case for you because I currently know nothing about you or your motivations, but you should make sure that you have a really good explanation lined up for this change of heart.

Thanks delirium81,
Initially, I was blanching at the idea of 7-9 years of med school before residency. But I've been doing research for 6 years now (started my freshman year of college) and realized that I would end up wanting to do it regardless. At the time I applied, I was in a lab that I didn't care for, doing research I wasn't passionate about, and so made my decision based off that malaise. But, when I did my first MD interview, I kept asking questions about their research opportunities and how many students did MD/PhD and what the research opportunities were for non-MD/PhDs. After that, I realized I really wanted to do research, so might as well shoot for it.

 

[goodkarma]

Hey VassasGrad, I'd probably just call the adcoms. MD/PhD's have fewer applicants and, in my experience, have been really, really nice and helpful.