A FORK IN MY ROAD - - shall I go left or right???

[rivera1md]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Hi Everyone,

This is my very first post for SDN! I've lurked occassionally to try to find an answer on my own, but unfortunately, unable to find exactly what I need. Hence, I registered. Hopefully I can get some advice and opinions to move me in the right direction 😀 !

If I go left - finish up my premeds (about a year), apply to a Physician Assistant (hopefully with Nova in Ft. Lauderdale), have my ARNG recruiter hook me up, do what I need to do (hopefully not a long deployment), and as quick as humanly possible apply for med school.

If I go right - finish up my premeds (about a year), apply for med school, hook up with my ARNG recruiter.

Logically I should go right, right?! But here are the issues...I am a career changer, Business major, 35 with 3 kids, and no time to waste in playing the med school application game year after year. I feel that if I side step to the left as a Physician Assistant or Anesthesiologist Assistant with the ARNG, I would have a better chance with my application package for a Florida school of medicine. Preferably what I want is Florida International University so there would be no need to uproot our kids from school again- they are 13, 9, and 3 yrs old. Particularly, our 13 yr old girl has moved from school to school (my husband was active duty up until recently).

If I go left - I would at least have a pretty stable job and generous pay if medical school took a longer process than expected.

If I go right - I may not get accepted in my first year. Then here I am with all these classes and a less than decent income, hoping for next year's cycle.

My stats so far, are as follows:
* 3.7 overall gpa
* 3.6 science gpa
* mcat, not taken
* 12 yrs. nursing & medical assisting for an adult home care 1995-2007
* 4 yrs. hemodialysis technician 1995-1999
* 2 yrs. medical assistant for a primary care 1993-1995
* i still plan to shadow
* i still plan to do some lab research (as soon as i figure out how to best accomplish this)

As you can see, I dont have any recent compelling clinicals which is why I lack confidence. My stronger work experience is in Business, particularly the finance and securities industry. I have a wealth of Leadership conferences with John C. Maxwell that may not count towards anything.

Any ideas or suggestions to make me a more well-rounded applicant???

One more thing...can I drill with ARNG as an officer without a Masters degree? I would love this option and go right, if that was at all possible.

Looking forward to hearing the good and the bad, lol.

 

[notdeadyet]

I am a career changer, Business major, 35 with 3 kids, and no time to waste in playing the med school application game year after year. I feel that if I side step to the left as a Physician Assistant or Anesthesiologist Assistant with the ARNG, I would have a better chance with my application package for a Florida school of medicine.

Going to PA school with the ultimate intent to go to med school is insane. If you are planning on applying to medical school, all you need to do is get a decent score on the MCAT and apply. Your GPA is fine and your clinical experience is above the norm for most matriculants.

Preferably what I want is Florida International University so there would be no need to uproot our kids from school again- they are 13, 9, and 3 yrs old. Particularly, our 13 yr old girl has moved from school to school (my husband was active duty up until recently).

Decide how important not moving is to you. If you are only willing to go to one medical school, your odds of success are cut way, way down.

 

[psychbender]

If you want to be a doctor, go right. If you want to waste your time, go left. Don't become a PA if your goal is to become a doctor. Become a PA if you want to be a PA. If you take the left road, what are the odds that you will actually get accepted to the PA or AA program in your area? Why would you assume that your chances for getting into that medical school would be any less?

 

[DogFaceMedic]

Agreed with the two above.
I had a similar dilemma. If you go PA or CRNA, you will be a lot older. If you want to be a Doc then just do it. Any delay now is a delay down the road.

 

[DogFaceMedic]

Agree completely with the two above.
I had a similar dilemma. If you want to be a Doc then just do it. Any delay now is a delay down the road.

 

[punkiedad]

agreed with the right.....

Can you work and finish your pre meds?

Most of all, knock the cover off the ball when taking the MCAT and everythign else will be small. You seem very sharp with your GPA and expereicne. If you spend even a portion of the time prepping for MCAT than you would for PA school you will save a ton of time....

Also, here is a question (I am kinda firing fromthe hip here) but if you are worried about income, what about the cost of PA school along the way??

If you want to be a doc., take something you can get by with and finish pre reqs while knocking out MCAT and go for it..........

 

[Gastrapathy]

disagree that this is simple. You are 35. You'll be 36 prior to starting med school, 40 at graduation and a 41 year old intern. Depending on your specialty, you won't finish training until you are 43-48. Thats a decade from now. Worse still, because of the long road and your family situation, you are likely to decide that you need to get done ASAP and therefore choose a primary care field where you will be working side by side with PAs.

Ask a bunch of med studs and doctors this question, guess which answer you'll get. PAs can specialize in all sorts of things. In GI, we have hepatology PAs that manage complex patients, do procedures and manage inpatient transplant services.

I think it depends on what you want to do. If you want to do primary care, starting med school at 36 is nuts. Are you sure you want to be a doctor? If you can't stand any other thought, then welcome to the club. And, why in the world are you joining the Army?

 

[Perrotfish]

disagree that this is simple. You are 35. You'll be 36 prior to starting med school, 40 at graduation and a 41 year old intern. Depending on your specialty, you won't finish training until you are 43-48. Thats a decade from now. Worse still, because of the long road and your family situation, you are likely to decide that you need to get done ASAP and therefore choose a primary care field where you will be working side by side with PAs.

I don't think you read his post right. We're not saying that the choice between PA and doctor is simple. It's not. But the OP is saying that, if he went PA, he would still plan on becoming a Doc a couple of years after PA school. That is, simply, a terrible idea.

OP: either become a doc (my class has several students with as many or more children than you, one of whom is 36 on an HPSP scholarship) or become a PA. Both are good plans, and the PA thing is definitely the faster road to a good income. But if you choose PA, don't plan on going to medical school. Doing one than the other is insane.

Whichever road you choose, if you get good standardizd test scores you're a perfectly fine applicant. You don't need a lot of bench research, and 12 years of nursing are pretty sufficient for clinical experience. MAYBE shadow a little more, but I don't think much else is necessary.

 

[notdeadyet]

disagree that this is simple. You are 35. You'll be 36 prior to starting med school, 40 at graduation and a 41 year old intern. Depending on your specialty, you won't finish training until you are 43-48. Thats a decade from now. Worse still, because of the long road and your family situation, you are likely to decide that you need to get done ASAP and therefore choose a primary care field where you will be working side by side with PAs.

Do you think medicine is a bad career path for folks intent on primary care? That's a good half of doctors, no?

The age thing is overblown. The idea of doing med school in your 30's and residency in your 30's or 40's sounds like this massive undertaking and frightening prospect to folks who went straight through. For those of us who had other high stress careers, it ain't that big a deal.

OP- if you want to be a PA, it's a great career path. If you want to be a doctor, that's a great career too (at any age). But one does not lead to the other.

 

[rivera1md]

agreed with the right.....

If you want to be a doc., take something you can get by with and finish pre reqs while knocking out MCAT and go for it..........

I hope I'm doing this reply with a quote-thing correctly...

I don't want to work in the business sector anymore because it's distracting from what I'm going to school for. I'd rather work in the medical field and gain something substantial. We just moved from Seattle to Miami not too long ago, and well, the job market is different. I never would have this problem in Seattle but I can not find a job. Everyone is healthcare here seems to need a certification in something to work, in which I have none (I never finished nursing school & my hemodialysis work is outdated). That, plus I no NOBODY...no one can hook me up, nothing...i guess thats why the PA thing was looking pretty good. I have never sent out so many resumes in my life - im not exaggerating. I hardly get a "thank you for applying" email. It's crazy.

 

[rivera1md]

disagree that this is simple. You are 35. You'll be 36 prior to starting med school, 40 at graduation and a 41 year old intern. Depending on your specialty, you won't finish training until you are 43-48. Thats a decade from now. Worse still, because of the long road and your family situation, you are likely to decide that you need to get done ASAP and therefore choose a primary care field where you will be working side by side with PAs.

Ask a bunch of med studs and doctors this question, guess which answer you'll get. PAs can specialize in all sorts of things. In GI, we have hepatology PAs that manage complex patients, do procedures and manage inpatient transplant services.

I think it depends on what you want to do. If you want to do primary care, starting med school at 36 is nuts. Are you sure you want to be a doctor? If you can't stand any other thought, then welcome to the club. And, why in the world are you joining the Army?

I definately don't want primary care. possibly dermatology, but I have my eyes more on surgery (general or plastics) or something in the NICU w/ peds.

The thought of one day being 50 and having some 20 something yr old new physician tell me what to do - - make me want to throw up! no. It's not going to happen. If you are all telling me, that med school after PA is insane, then I will take this advice as you are all ahead of me. The last thing I want, is to get "stuck" there - then I will really be unhappy. I need to get the "MD" even to just prove it to some people, namely my relatives. I know I can do it, they don't think I can.

And, why in the world are you joining the Army?

My husband has a pretty sweet deal, financially, with the Reserves for only a once/month commitment. Granted, he paid his dues years earlier - and I hated him leaving me with the kids while I finished up my BS - but looking back, it was worth it. If I can serve my Country while they help me get through medical school, then I THINK I am getting the better end of the deal! (realize i am non prior service so i may be naive). My husband's only warning is that if I do this, I should direct commission only.

 

[rivera1md]

I don't think you read his post right. We're not saying that the choice between PA and doctor is simple. It's not. But the OP is saying that, if he went PA, he would still plan on becoming a Doc a couple of years after PA school. That is, simply, a terrible idea.

OP: either become a doc (my class has several students with as many or more children than you, one of whom is 36 on an HPSP scholarship) or become a PA. Both are good plans, and the PA thing is definitely the faster road to a good income. But if you choose PA, don't plan on going to medical school. Doing one than the other is insane.

Whichever road you choose, if you get good standardizd test scores you're a perfectly fine applicant. You don't need a lot of bench research, and 12 years of nursing are pretty sufficient for clinical experience. MAYBE shadow a little more, but I don't think much else is necessary.

Thanks Perrotfish! you said "That is, simply, a terrible idea." That seems to be the common denominator here. I am sooo glad I got out of my comfort zone to ask you all what you think!

You don't need a lot of bench research, and 12 years of nursing are pretty sufficient for clinical experience. MAYBE shadow a little more, but I don't think much else is necessary.

At this time, I haven't a clue on how to go about obtaining research experience but I am positive its posted in several places in this forum so I'll just search for it. That is, unless someone is kind enough to just link me in 😀 .

As far as my "nursing clinical experience" - 1) I never finished nursing school 2) it was my parent's adult family home care so i was not a real employee 3) i was paid under the table so I cannot obtain "proof" of my income, if asked by the medical board 4) i committed time only when it was convenient for me like when there wasn't a party going on that night 4) most of my time was spent doing ap/ar, payroll, scheduling, medical supplies etc. I should opt out from this detail, right?

 

[psychbender]

Even with those clarifiers, you still have more clinical/medical world experience than the vast majority of pre-meds out there. Don't leave the details out when asked to explain to admissions comittees what you were doing. Also, do not forget to mention your non-medical leadership experiences. There is a lot to say about having a life prior to medicine--I had several classmates older than 35 at the start. I even had a 60 year old intern, once (former investment banker).

Bench research, or really any research, is not really needed for med school admission. If you cannot find some/fit it into your schedule, I would not worry too much. Focus on finishing your courses, and blowing the MCAT out of the water. Get a little shadowing experience (call your nearest medical school and see if they have anyone that accepts interested students for a day or two), and go from there.

As far as the Army goes, the Army National Guard seems to have a fairly sweet program that may work best for you. I would suggest perusing the thread discussing it, or PMing notdeadyet for details.

 

[IgD]

Why not build on your current career and pursue a career in the business aspect of medicine? For example, go back to school and get a masters in public health? You could live vicariously through physicians by empowering them. Our department desperately needs someone like that to solve our financial problems.

I'm thinking it would be difficult to balance medical school and residency (a 10 year commitment to 80 hour work weeks?) against raising your family.

With that being said, you gotta follow your internal compass and I commend your enthusiasm/drive. HPSP might be a good way to go. You'd get your school paid for and increased benefits for your family including housing/insurance while you are doing your GMO tour.

 

[rivera1md]

With that being said, you gotta follow your internal compass and I commend your enthusiasm/drive. HPSP might be a good way to go. You'd get your school paid for and increased benefits for your family including housing/insurance while you are doing your GMO tour.

So many acronyms...hpsp, gmo, i am familiar but not with the details. I will look those up some time today. Now that I know I should continue to hang on the RIGHT side of the fork,,,thanks to you all, I can move on.

If I took advantage of what the military can assist with for my tuition, is there a cap on how much they can loan? For instance, University of Miami is not even 3 miles away from me, but tuition is up there! Should I still apply there when time comes?

 

[rivera1md]

Even with those clarifiers, you still have more clinical/medical world experience than the vast majority of pre-meds out there. Don't leave the details out when asked to explain to admissions comittees what you were doing. Also, do not forget to mention your non-medical leadership experiences. There is a lot to say about having a life prior to medicine--I had several classmates older than 35 at the start. I even had a 60 year old intern, once (former investment banker).

Bench research, or really any research, is not really needed for med school admission. If you cannot find some/fit it into your schedule, I would not worry too much. Focus on finishing your courses, and blowing the MCAT out of the water. Get a little shadowing experience (call your nearest medical school and see if they have anyone that accepts interested students for a day or two), and go from there.

As far as the Army goes, the Army National Guard seems to have a fairly sweet program that may work best for you. I would suggest perusing the thread discussing it, or PMing notdeadyet for details.

Thanks for the tips! do you think its relevant to mention the countless hours i assisted in for animal surgery 👍 or 👎 ? I was going to do Veterinary Medicine at one point.

 

[psychbender]

Thanks for the tips! do you think its relevant to mention the countless hours i assisted in for animal surgery 👍 or 👎 ? I was going to do Veterinary Medicine at one point.

Yes. Veterinary Medicine is still medicine. Some of our faculty for the basic science courses were pulled from the vet school in town.

I don't think that there is a tuition cap for HPSP (my school was somewhere in the neighborhood of $30k a year when I started) right now, but I think I heard that there once was. Also, it is not a loan. They fully pay for school and required expenses (reimburse for books, insurance, etc), and in turn you pay back time to the military.

 

[Perrotfish]

If I took advantage of what the military can assist with for my tuition, is there a cap on how much they can loan? For instance, University of Miami is not even 3 miles away from me, but tuition is up there! Should I still apply there when time comes?

They pay for all your tuition, all books, healthcare for you (though not your dependents), $1906/month stipend (more during your active duty training period each year), your required standardized test (one time only), and a one time 20K signing bonus. They pay they equivalent of 80K of civilian pay in residency. There is no cap on the total benifits, there is someone on this board who is an out of state school that chages OOS tuition of nearly 100k and HPSP pays for all of it.

There is also the option of waiting for loan repayment through FAP. That's better because you can go through civilian match. That's worse because there IS a cap on loan repayment (160K?), and no other benifits other than that loan repayment. Also, as mentioned above, neither the HPSP scholarship nor FAP is a loan. Once you've accepted you owe them service, but not money.

Hope that helps. Are you applying this coming cycle?

 

[punkiedad]

Thanks for the tips! do you think its relevant to mention the countless hours i assisted in for animal surgery 👍 or 👎 ? I was going to do Veterinary Medicine at one point.

If you have a business background, are aggressive and want to stay in the medical field how about pharmaceutical sales? Good coin. Flexible schedules. It is tought now, but there are people hiring. just a thought.

also, you really should check out the army national guard program. I spent a ton of hours debating the difference between HPSP and the NG. There is no comparisson. You get the best of both worlds. Another poster mentioned PMing someone for for info. You can try notdeadyet, amindwalker or koojo (sorry if I missed anyone)

By the way, don't let any attending dissuade you from your dream. They may already be at the point you aspire to be BUT, you don't know anything about them and why the are unhappy or are trying to give advice. Take objective advice form everyone and then form your own opinion based on your golals, feeling and situation. Sorry for the tangent, but I have a relative who is still trying to talk me out of it. Don't know why he does it, but I know our motivations are completely different so I ignore him.

Bets of luck.......

 

[notdeadyet]

The thought of one day being 50 and having some 20 something yr old new physician tell me what to do - - make me want to throw up! no. It's not going to happen.

If you're going to med school as late as you are, you'd better get used to the idea of folks a lot younger than you telling you what to do.

 

[Sarg's kid]

Agree completely with the two above.
I had a similar dilemma. If you want to be a Doc then just do it. Any delay now is a delay down the road.

Ok, I agree that you should just apply to medschool, if that is what you would eventually do anyway. If you're looking to hedge your bets, you could always apply to both. Noone will know or stop you from applying to med school AND PA school at the same time.

Also, if you did PA and you're 35 now, you would be done with PA at 37/38. Assuming you go from PA straight into med school, thats 42 at graduation and 45-47 at residency completion. Now, I don't know the mandatory retirement age in the Army, but if you add 20 to the 42, you would have to stay in until you are 62 to retire. (Vs 58 to retire PA)

Anyway, lots to think about. At this point, it's not necessarily that you don't have what it takes to become a doctor, more that it is a huge commitment and there might be a better way for you to go as an individual.

My $0.02 is that you might be better served going PA. That lets you finish school faster, and I think it would give you more time with your kids. Anyway, good luck.

 

[rivera1md]

If you're going to med school as late as you are, you'd better get used to the idea of folks a lot younger than you telling you what to do.

lol, i'd be fine with it once i was in a med school. i was referring to being a PA and being regretful of my decisions.

 

[rivera1md]

Ok, I agree that you should just apply to medschool, if that is what you would eventually do anyway. If you're looking to hedge your bets, you could always apply to both. Noone will know or stop you from applying to med school AND PA school at the same time.

My $0.02 is that you might be better served going PA. That lets you finish school faster, and I think it would give you more time with your kids. Anyway, good luck..

Thats a great idea to apply to both - i didn't think I could do that! Alot can change in my mindset in a year im guessing.

As far as spending more time with my kids...ya, we can always have more time with them...but they r older and understand I sacrificed my career to be with them - and that it's mommy's turn now. As even with my bachelors degree, I did most of it online so I spent alot of time with them. I would say, on & off I was a stay at home mom for 8 years since hubby was also out on deployments here and there. I had alot of time to think through if I should go back to school. Bottomline, I have hubby's complete support, in fact he was the one that encouraged me to stop wishing and wanting and Just Do It. He is totally capable of managing the house with all that entails so I can do what I what I need to do. However, I know I will feel guilty some times. Even PA school is a sacrifice, so the same would apply here.

 

[rivera1md]

They pay for all your tuition, all books, healthcare for you (though not your dependents), $1906/month stipend (more during your active duty training period each year), your required standardized test (one time only), and a one time 20K signing bonus. They pay they equivalent of 80K of civilian pay in residency. There is no cap on the total benifits, there is someone on this board who is an out of state school that chages OOS tuition of nearly 100k and HPSP pays for all of it.

There is also the option of waiting for loan repayment through FAP. That's better because you can go through civilian match. That's worse because there IS a cap on loan repayment (160K?), and no other benifits other than that loan repayment. Also, as mentioned above, neither the HPSP scholarship nor FAP is a loan. Once you've accepted you owe them service, but not money.

Hope that helps. Are you applying this coming cycle?

HPSP is active Army though, right? Not national guard. Do you the expected service commitments with Army, Reserve, and NG after med school? Im a little confused in this area. I want to go with what's more flexible which I think is NG and that's why I was leaning that direction. But I don't know what I don't know 😕. I've just starting looking at the military as an added bonus to the things I want to accomplish in my life. And like I mentioned in an earlier post, my husband has a nice balanced relationship with the military (he just switched from Navy reserves to Army reserves last month)...its good money for one weekend/month.

 

[TheGoose]

there's a huuuuge thread about the national guard here http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=550134.

take a while and read through it and you'll get all your answers about the national guard program and then some.

and yes, with HPSP, you will eventually be active duty Army - you seem to be more suited to the ASR program (if you opt for med school rather than PA)

 

[notdeadyet]

and yes, with HPSP, you will eventually be active duty Army - you seem to be more suited to the ASR program (if you opt for med school rather than PA)

Keep in mind that unlike HPSP the ASR program is a temporary program to beef up the number of physicians in the National Guard. It was originally envisioned to run only three years (final year being FY 2010). This program might not be around by the time the OP gets in to medical school.

That said, the Guard has other programs designed for med students if she applies too late.

 

[Perrotfish]

Thats a great idea to apply to both - i didn't think I could do that! Alot can change in my mindset in a year im guessing.

Just my $0.02: if you want doctor just apply for medical school, at least the first time around. Even if you do everything right (earliest possible app, high MCAT, applied broadly to both DO and MD schools, etc) you should be willing for med school admissions to take 2 admissions cycles. There's an unreasonable amount of luck involved here. If you send out a second round of applications then, MAYBE consider applying for PA school as well. If you want a safety in case you don't get into med school on your first try, maybe a 1 year MPH? They help with match, a little.

Again, this isn't to say that PA is a bad alternative career path, but it seems pretty clear your heart is set on medical school.

 

[Gastrapathy]

The thought of one day being 50 and having some 20 something yr old new physician tell me what to do - - make me want to throw up!


I need to get the "MD" even to just prove it to some people, namely my relatives. I know I can do it, they don't think I can.
.

Both of these comments make me uncomfortable.

MD or PA, you'll spend plenty of the next decade having a 20 something (or more likely a 30 something) physician telling you what to do. They are supposed to tell you what to do. Thats their job.

Second, you need an MD to prove your worth to your relatives? Really? I would keep that sentiment to yourself, particularly if you are interviewing for med school.

 

[Perrotfish]

Second, you need an MD to prove your worth to your relatives? Really? I would keep that sentiment to yourself, particularly if you are interviewing for med school.

Good interview strategy, sir, but don't pretend that at least 1/4th of your class didn't go MD over PA for that exact reason. Heck, that was basically my reason for not going PA. The idea of a glass ceiling, of always having to latch on to an MD boss and knowing I would never get through it no matter how long I waited, sucked. Meanwhile the idea of telling people I was a doctor and not some kind of assistant was really appealing. People want that brass ring, even though we all know it's the same ride either way. Human nature.

This is, of course, a terrible reason to go into healthcare, but if you know you want something doctor-like I think it's a perfectly reasonable justification for choosing MD over PA.

 

[rivera1md]

Both of these comments make me uncomfortable.

MD or PA, you'll spend plenty of the next decade having a 20 something (or more likely a 30 something) physician telling you what to do. They are supposed to tell you what to do. Thats their job.

Second, you need an MD to prove your worth to your relatives? Really? I would keep that sentiment to yourself, particularly if you are interviewing for med school.

Earlier today, I responded with "lol, i'd be fine with it once i was in a med school. i was referring to being a PA and being regretful of my decisions." So dont take me, literally. Im not really going to throw up. Of course I understand that they must tell me what to do as it is their job. But I'm guessing that it will not always asked of me, so disrespectfully. And if that was the case, chances are I wouldn't be the first one to complain. So maybe that guy just has a history of being an ass, and that's not my problem so I will deal with it such. My personality is, that everyone likes me at work because I get a long with practically everybody. I'm aquarius so I can't help it lol. And I dont have a problem with authority. So if you r trying to stir up some drama, its not going to happen. As far as my feelings for certain loved ones, I was simply trying to make a point that I am intrinsicly motivated which happens to be a more powerful tool and effective tool of motivation over being extrinsicly motivated, like say I wanted this just for money and lifestyle. Those would be added perks for me.

 

[rivera1md]

there's a huuuuge thread about the national guard here http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=550134.

take a while and read through it and you'll get all your answers about the national guard program and then some.

and yes, with HPSP, you will eventually be active duty Army - you seem to be more suited to the ASR program (if you opt for med school rather than PA)

The link is awesome thank you!

 

[notdeadyet]

and yes, with HPSP, you will eventually be active duty Army - you seem to be more suited to the ASR program (if you opt for med school rather than PA)

ASR is open to people becoming PAs as well...

 

[TheGoose]

ASR is open to people becoming PAs as well...

Dun dun dunnnnnn......

 

[atomi]

-

 

[notdeadyet]

I agree that it is silly to start med school beyond 30 unless you have (1) money and (2) no family or commitments.

Or (3) you really want to become a doctor.

PA school would be a much more reasonable path for someone looking to get involved in healthcare at the provider level.

I know a couple PAs who are not thrilled about career prospects right now. It may be a regional thing, but they are concerned that the move is afoot more towards NPs and less towards PAs.

 

[rivera1md]

Or (3) you really want to become a doctor.

I know a couple PAs who are not thrilled about career prospects right now. It may be a regional thing, but they are concerned that the move is afoot more towards NPs and less towards PAs.

Really?!! see thats exactly what I would Not want to have happen to me. I think I should try my damdest to get to medical school, and if not, well then at least I know I tried.

 

[rivera1md]

Or (3) you really want to become a doctor. .

Thanks notdeadyet for understanding!

Here's the next issue. I did my research on the National Guard thread. I think its the best fit for me! So this morning, my husband takes me on base and i meet this really nice lady - master sargeant unit administrator for civil affairs medical something something - she was suggesting the Army Reserves of course, and how it would also work to my benefit, if I want to direct commission before my prereqs are completed yada yada. I think I like the idea of being an officer before I receive an acceptance letter from medical school. Plus, wouldn't this be an added positive to my application if I was drilling (medical or nonmedical unit, it will depend) with the reserves for at least a year before medical school? This way I have some money coming in while going to school. The downside is that its 8 years and that I will not be able to transfer to National Guard when the time came. So I guess my first step is to do more research tonight (i think i saw a thread for it) before I meet with my husbands recruiter tomorrow morning. Hopefully, you guys will post some suggestions before the morning so I can have great questions for this recruiter 😀 ?!

 

[punkiedad]

Or (3) you really want to become a doctor.

I know a couple PAs who are not thrilled about career prospects right now. It may be a regional thing, but they are concerned that the move is afoot more towards NPs and less towards PAs.

whew.....am 38 with a family (therefore no money).....good thing I didn't pay attntion to earlier post.....if I liestened to them I should have staid in the coal mines so my wife would have dinner waiting for me when I got home..............

 

[atomi]

-

 

[atomi]

-

 

[atomi]

-

 

[spicedmanna]

That's true for anybody. After mid-thirties or so, it's illogical at best, family-ruining at worst. Only way it would make sense is if you were single and had a pile of cash and had nothing else pressing or any other desires in life.

Well, I might have the minority opinion, but the only time it EVER makes sense to put yourself through this, um, process, is because you want to become a physician and nothing else. Age and having a family might make you face that more readily, but it's the same point, no matter how old or young you are. To paraphrase one of my professors, "it is a life-shortening process." I think you'd be a fool to do put yourself and your family through these challenges, unless you realized that it's what you would have to do to get to where you want to be. Other than that, as long as your family is willing to go along for the ride, and you have the ability and the heart for it, go for it.

 

[punkiedad]

How are you going to support your family with negative income and no time to pay attention to them?

These are serious issues to think about. You can't just pretend everything's going to be ok because 'i really want to be a doctor' and that's just the way it's going to be. well i really wanted to be a fighter pilot too. too bad my eyes aren't good enough. should i keep trying anyway, maybe move to a foreign country in africa where they don't have eyesight requirements? I'm sure I could find a way if I worked hard enough. At some point, the sacrifices required for your dream make it not so much of a dream anymore.

I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just saying don't believe all the smiles and rainbows thrown around on the non-trad forums where somebody shows up who is 50 with a mortgage and kids in college, going through a mid-life crisis, and asks how to get into med school, and everybody jumps on the bandwagon of offering support and HOPE!

As I ponder........do I or don't I reply. I figure I will reply. Although most will find my reply redundant/boring, if at least one finds it helpful, then it was worth it:

These are SERIOUS ISSUES to think about. What in the H**l makes you think I did not consider every single angle to this 10 different directions? You must not have a family / children. If you do, you must still be thinking about being Maverick or Goose because when you have a family every decision you make is done only after thinking how it will affect your wife / kids.

I said this before, but I guess I will say it again. Why do some of the sour med school students, residents or attendings (not all just the sour ones) think medicine is the only career that takes sacrifice? There are a lot of 80+ hour per week jobs:
--attorney
--small business owner (restaurant / bar / lawn care , etc)
--teacher (during the school year)
--most managers

the list goes on. There are a lot of careers that involve sacrifice these days. I understand I cannot comprehend the amount of activity and pressure that will come with med school. I have spent the last three years preparing. Yes, I know the tidal wave will come in starting in July. Still, I have supported my wife through undergrad and grad school. She will support me through med school.

When I was working full time and taking pre reqs I argue I got more quality time with my wife and kids. My relationship with kids got stronger, relationship with wife is stronger than ever. This is because I know every second of every day was accounted for. When I was home for two hours, I knew I had to spend those two hours as quality time. As a matter of fact, we bought a Winnebago and started camping over the summer which we never did before (because we didnt have time--ha ha). My point is, the only thing that suffered was "me time" and "sleep". I don't need to go out and can survive on 5 hours sleep a night. Also, I copleted several house projects and was in the top 5% of performers in my company for the two years I was taking pre reqs.

By the way, I appreciate the reference to the mid life crisis. Mine truly was a crisis. I was at the top of my game in a very successful business career. One Sunday night my wife ran to me holding our blue faced 5 week old son in her arms. It was me doing CPR on my little miracle baby (his nickname is punkie by the way) that was the crisis in my family's life. Yes, he did survive but has special needs. From that day on my life has changed and my goals have never been more clear.

So, I appreciate the lecture, but forgive me if I don't see what your idea of being illogical is. Who are you to tell me what is logical? Will you tell your terminal patients that it is better to give up than fight because it will cost too much or they will eventually die anyways?

Seems like you should be asking yourself why you went into medicine. I know why I am, and the only thing I am sorry about is that I didn't get it earlier.

 

[Perrotfish]

Here's the next issue. I did my research on the National Guard thread. I think its the best fit for me! So this morning, my husband takes me on base and i meet this really nice lady - master sargeant unit administrator for civil affairs medical something something - she was suggesting the Army Reserves of course, and how it would also work to my benefit, if I want to direct commission before my prereqs are completed yada yada. I think I like the idea of being an officer before I receive an acceptance letter from medical school. Plus, wouldn't this be an added positive to my application if I was drilling (medical or nonmedical unit, it will depend) with the reserves for at least a year before medical school? This way I have some money coming in while going to school. The downside is that its 8 years and that I will not be able to transfer to National Guard when the time came. So I guess my first step is to do more research tonight (i think i saw a thread for it) before I meet with my husbands recruiter tomorrow morning. Hopefully, you guys will post some suggestions before the morning so I can have great questions for this recruiter

Sweet merciful crap. No. NO. No do not join the friggin Reserves while you're doing the prereqs. Never ever no. Reasons:

1) A commitment to the military, from a medical student, is something that is worth a lot of money. Which they are willing to pay you, once you have a letter of acceptance in hand. If you sign the papers and join beforehand you've given them that commitment for nothing. They have no reason to give you a scholarship, because you've already signed. If they do decide to give you a scholarship your new scholarship commitment will be stacked on top of what you've already commited to.

2) If you join the active reserves, you will need to drill on the weekend throughout you prereqs and then through medical school. This is a bad idea.

3) The Reserves deploy a LOT these days. I have no idea why anyone, under any circumstances, would join the drilling reserves at this time. It's a one way ticket to Iraqistan without the benifits and support of Active Duty. These days is seems basically like a way for the Army not to pay soldiers in between deployments. This is a great way to stretch 2 years of prereqs out into 5 years.

4) If you join as not a medical student, I believe you have to go through all of the military schools if you join the Reserves. If you're going officer that means 12 weeks of OCS, then whatever basic officer training the Guard offers, then you have your MOS school. You're talking 6 months of full time training.

5) No, this won't help you application. Alright, it might help a little, but to the ADCOMs it's basically glorified EC.

Listen, every time an Army recruiter nabs an officer, it's worth the same number of recruiting 'points' as nearly 10 enlisted recruits. They will lie to you to make quota. On the other hand, med students have a seperate recruiter, so if you wait for that letter of acceptance your 'really nice' seargent gets nothing. Don't listen to recruiters, and don't join the military until you have a medical school acceptance in hand and are looking at Medical school scholarships. If you want money before then I'd recommend either a part time job (EMT is nice) or a loan.

So, one more time: Reserves? Just say NO

BTW: for the prereqs, have you looked into formal post-bac programs like Scripps, Gaucher, Harvard, Columbia, etc? It might be a bit faster for you, and they have very high success rates.

There will be fewer and fewer MDs in primary care, nobody is denying that

No One is denying that?

 

[TheGoose]

Who are you to tell me what is logical?

good reply. His post didn't even deserve a well thought out response. what a jerk

Sweet merciful crap. No. NO. No do not join the friggin Reserves

Amen - I just hope she doesn't come on and post in a couple hours "Hey guys, I joined the reserves!".......other point - if she joins not as a med student can't she be deployed and have to drill throughout med school, let alone the prereqs

 

[Gastrapathy]

I'm happy I chose medicine but I always find it interesting that people are so defensive about the decision. If you look back, all I wrote that started this was that I felt this wasn't an easy, clear cut choice. I still feel that.

There are differences between medicine and other white collar careers. The biggest is sleep deprivation and unpredictable schedules through training. There are exceptions in other fields, the occasional all-nighter, but this is the norm as a physician-in-training (and beyond for many specialties). I don't think its inappropriate to acknowledge the challenges of our field.

From a family time perspective, being a premed student and then the first 2 years of med school are the best its ever going to be.

 

[notdeadyet]

I did my research on the National Guard thread. I think its the best fit for me! So this morning, my husband takes me on base and i meet this really nice lady - master sargeant unit administrator for civil affairs medical something something - she was suggesting the Army Reserves of course, and how it would also work to my benefit, if I want to direct commission before my prereqs are completed yada yada.

I recommend the National Guard highly to folks in med school, but only the National Guard programs designed for medical students. You are non-deployable and are attached to a CO who understands that you are not always in control of your schedule.

What I think you're proposing will mean that you could be deployed at any time, missing out on a year or two years of classes. You would be responsible for drilling when you're told, even if it means taking a hit during mid-terms, finals, etc.

Medical school and the road to get to medical school is a game of inches in which every grade and point count. Doing anything to jeopardize the chances of you ever becoming a doctor are too great.

Plus, wouldn't this be an added positive to my application if I was drilling (medical or nonmedical unit, it will depend) with the reserves for at least a year before medical school?

A year in Iraq as a medic or something would probably be a positive for most (but not all) interviewers. A year doing one weekend per month won't impress anyone and could possibly hurt your app when someone makes the connection that they could be wasting a seat on someone who will be pulled out and not graduate with their class.

 

[notdeadyet]

After mid-thirties or so, it's illogical at best, family-ruining at worst.

Can I make a guess that you're not in your mid-thirties or so? The folks who have actually walked the walk aren't claiming any ruined families and I don't know anyone in their thirties who are claiming ruined families.

Either folks in their mid-thirties are a little younger than you're giving them credit for or families are a little more resilient. There's no gene that turns you into a shrinking violet when the clock tolls 30.

Only way it would make sense is if you were single and had a pile of cash and had nothing else pressing or any other desires in life.

True of anyone, regardless of age. Don't go to med school unless you're prepared to make sacrifices. If you're 22, that means you making sacrifices and your playing less x-box and hitting less clubs. If you're 27, that means you and your wife making sacrifices and your doing less triathlons. If you're 32, that means you and your family making sacrifices and your playing less golf.

 

[notdeadyet]

There will be fewer and fewer MDs in primary care, nobody is denying that.

Oh, people are denying that. Where are you getting this from? The number of residency slots for primary care isn't dropping.

In fact, the number of allopathic medical school graduates has risen substantially in the past three years and is possibly/probably going to continue to rise. At the same time, the number of residency slots has not risen significantly.

What does this mean? More MDs are competing for the same number of residency slots. It means that competition for competitive specialties has gotten more competitive and more MDs are forced into second choice residencies. This means, if anything, more MDs are going into primary care.

I've got to believe the job market for PAs is going to explode as the baby boomers age and MDs flee primary care.

I think you're right that job opportunities for mid-level providers is going to continue to rise. Whether it's NPs or PAs is very debatable.

As for MDs, check out the job possibilities for MDs in primary care. They aren't hurting finding jobs. There are far more vacancies than physicians to fill them.

 

[notdeadyet]

Sweet merciful crap. No. NO. No do not join the friggin Reserves while you're doing the prereqs. Never ever no.

No One is denying that?

Whoops. Should have read Perrotfish's reply before making my own.

What he said.