A&M vs Dell vs Tech El Paso vs UVM

[FutureDoc1234321]

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Hello!

I loved all of these schools and frankly don't have a preference of one over the other as far as the school itself. I don't care where I live. My ultimate goal is to be an orthopaedic surgeon. Here's my list of pros and cons:

A&M

Pros: send about 4% into ortho each year; tuition is very affordable; solid ortho residency program that consistently has at least one A&M med student match each class

Cons: nothing that I'm concerned about

Dell

Pros: can receive a master's degree that I'm interested in or can spend a full year in ortho research; tuition is very affordable

Cons: haven't graduated their first class yet so unsure as to how they will match, which may or may not have an impact on very competitive specialties such as ortho

Texas Tech El Paso

Pros: newly designed anatomy distinction program may help chances of matching ortho?; tuition is very affordable

Cons: currently only send 1% of students into ortho each year (the anatomy distinction program was just created last year so it may or may not increase this number)

UVM

Pros: consistently great match rates (I believe ~4% of students go into orthopaedics); very good ortho residency program (although it doesn’t look like any UVM medical students match into the UVM ortho residency)

Cons: tuition will be a little more than 2x that of all the above Texas schools...but then again my goal is to get into orthopaedics and I'll pay off student loans in the future as long as I put myself into the best position to match into ortho



As you can tell, I'm very focused on ortho and am willing to pay the piper in tuition to have solid chances of matching. Please help me rank these schools for TMDSAS match and also I’d like to see where y’all think UVM fits in this mix as well.

Please, no pre-med responses. I would appreciate if only current medical students, faculty, or physicians/surgeons respond to this.

Thank you for your help!

 

[StillIRise]

1. Dell - Step 1 score is very important for ortho
2. UVM
3. A&M
4. PLFSOM

 

[FutureDoc1234321]

1. Dell - Step 1 score is very important for ortho
2. UVM
3. A&M
4. PLFSOM

Thanks for your response. Can you please explain why you'd rank UVM above A&M/PLFSOM ?

 

[esob]

Assuming you are a Texas resident:

A&M - Aggie network will probably land you as many ortho interviews as a high step score and once you are past that point, the Aggie network will continue to pay you dividends for life, whereas the high step score will not

PLFSOM - The anatomy head here is pretty awesome and having the distinction in anatomy on your actual diploma would be very good for Ortho. Also, again, huge Red Raider alumni network (a big component of residency is going to be who you know, and I wager TTUHSC docs will treat PLFSOM grads as family).

Dell - Zero alumni to date but the first class had good step scores (but it was a small class and tbh I think this was probably a self-selecting group of people they cherry-picked for their first class; it is yet to be proven that it is their curriculum that is responsible for the high step scores). The upside is that it's still in TX and that gives you a better shot at Tx residencies and the tuition will be cheaper that going out of state.

UVM - Well, it's not TX, so basically why would you go there 😀

 

[FutureDoc1234321]

Assuming you are a Texas resident:

A&M - Aggie network will probably land you as many ortho interviews as a high step score and once you are past that point, the Aggie network will continue to pay you dividends for life, whereas the high step score will not

PLFSOM - The anatomy head here is pretty awesome and having the distinction in anatomy on your actual diploma would be very good for Ortho. Also, again, huge Red Raider alumni network (a big component of residency is going to be who you know, and I wager TTUHSC docs will treat PLFSOM grads as family).

Dell - Zero alumni to date but the first class had good step scores (but it was a small class and tbh I think this was probably a self-selecting group of people they cherry-picked for their first class; it is yet to be proven that it is their curriculum that is responsible for the high step scores). The upside is that it's still in TX and that gives you a better shot at Tx residencies and the tuition will be cheaper that going out of state.

UVM - Well, it's not TX, so basically why would you go there 😀

On my interview, it was clear that the anatomy professor at PLFSOM is very distinguished; however, after digging around a little, it looks like they have matched the lowest percentage (1%) of orthos over the past two years of all med schools in TX who has graduated their first class. Will the anatomy distinction program actually help that much for match rates into ortho?

 

[esob]

On my interview, it was clear that the anatomy professor at PLFSOM is very distinguished; however, after digging around a little, it looks like they have matched the lowest percentage (1%) of orthos over the past two years of all med schools in TX who has graduated their first class. Will the anatomy distinction program actually help that much for match rates into ortho?

The question is, how many PLFSOM students ranked ortho programs first on their match vs how many matched. If a smaller percentage of them wanted to go ortho (which would make sense, given the focus of the school to serve the underserved Hispanic border population, particularly in the area of primary care), then the 1% rate is not that troublesome. I am too old to go into surgery but when I made my rounds on the TX circuit this year, one thing I remember talking to the students and staff about was that *if* one wanted to go into a surgical specialty, that the distinction on your diploma would be a really good booster and if I were going into surgery, I probably would be ranking PLFSOM #1, for that reason alone.

 

[StillIRise]

Thanks for your response. Can you please explain why you'd rank UVM above A&M/PLFSOM ?

UVM is highly connected especially to the big east coast programs in New York and Boston. Nationally, you'd also have a better chance coming from UVM. It's not right, but others view Texas, besides Baylor and UTSW a certain way.

 

[StillIRise]

The question is, how many PLFSOM students ranked ortho programs first on their match vs how many matched. If a smaller percentage of them wanted to go ortho (which would make sense, given the focus of the school to serve the underserved Hispanic border population, particularly in the area of primary care), then the 1% rate is not that troublesome. I am too old to go into surgery but when I made my rounds on the TX circuit this year, one thing I remember talking to the students and staff about was that *if* one wanted to go into a surgical specialty, that the distinction on your diploma would be a really good booster and if I were going into surgery, I probably would be ranking PLFSOM #1, for that reason alone.

Other schools now offer that Distinction in Anatomy program so it won't help you much if others also have it on their CV. Ortho is one of the most competitive programs, and all things being equal residency directors will pick established programs over PLFSOM. The anatomy professor will have zero bearing on your chances at an ortho match. Going by numbers alone, objectively, UVM is your best bet.

 

[FutureDoc1234321]

@StillIRise Thanks for your insight

 

[esob]

Other schools now offer that Distinction in Anatomy program so it won't help you much if others also have it on their CV. Ortho is one of the most competitive programs, and all things being equal residency directors will pick established programs over PLFSOM. The anatomy professor will have zero bearing on your chances at an ortho match. Going by numbers alone, objectively, UVM is your best bet.

This time of myopic view is not solid advice. Training under a distinguished anatomy prof would be valuable, especially in the world of academic medicine where you will be applying (and I don't mean taking anatomy like all other med students, but being one of the few selected individuals accepted to the distinction program and training directly with him).

Secondly, even if point A was a non-starter (lets say you didn't get accepted into the distinction program), graduating from any Tx school will give you a boost for TX residency slots. Ask yourself how many TX ortho residency slots there are vs how many VT has? PLFSOM has a home ortho program at WBAMC, plus, TTUHSC has an ortho residency, which technically would be a home program for PLFSOM students.

Third, go where you will thrive because step scores, preclin grades, class rank, deans letter, LOR's will determine your shot at ortho more than UVM vs any of the TX schools. If you were talking about a powerhouse name like JH/Mayo/Harvard etc, then maybe your program name would carry enough weight to compensate for those other factors, but UVM won't help you at most places, and it would hurt you in TX (vs graduating from any Tx school).

 

[StillIRise]

This time of myopic view is not solid advice. Training under a distinguished anatomy prof would be valuable, especially in the world of academic medicine where you will be applying (and I don't mean taking anatomy like all other med students, but being one of the few selected individuals accepted to the distinction program and training directly with him).

Secondly, even if point A was a non-starter (lets say you didn't get accepted into the distinction program), graduating from any Tx school will give you a boost for TX residency slots. Ask yourself how many TX ortho residency slots there are vs how many VT has? PLFSOM has a home ortho program at WBAMC, plus, TTUHSC has an ortho residency, which technically would be a home program for PLFSOM students.

Third, go where you will thrive because step scores, preclin grades, class rank, deans letter, LOR's will determine your shot at ortho more than UVM vs any of the TX schools. If you were talking about a powerhouse name like JH/Mayo/Harvard etc, then maybe your program name would carry enough weight to compensate for those other factors, but UVM won't help you at most places, and it would hurt you in TX (vs graduating from any Tx school).

Maybe you need to know that the anatomy professor you're talking about will no longer be at PLFSOM as of this January. I didn't want to go into that because I still don't believe your anatomy professor will have a bearing on your chances at an ortho match.
You can give a lot of feel good advice but the reality is that picking one school over another does open opportunities for you. There's a reason for that. It makes life much easier for you down the road.

 

[esob]

Maybe you need to know that the anatomy professor you're talking about will no longer be at PLFSOM as of this January. I didn't want to go into that because I still don't believe your anatomy professor will have a bearing on your chances at an ortho match.
You can give a lot of feel good advice but the reality is that picking one school over another does open opportunities for you. There's a reason for that. It makes life much easier for you down the road.

Well, even if he is, I already negated the possibility of it even being a factor. And I agree, picking one school over another does open opportunities, but not in a singular metric fashion. Again, home programs favor their own students, so any school with a home ortho program is going to trump one without, but that is a single factor and can't be taken out of context with the rest of the confounding factors. I suspect, based on your posts that you are current PLFSOM student who is unhappy with their school choice.

 

[StillIRise]

Well, even if he is, I already negated the possibility of it even being a factor. And I agree, picking one school over another does open opportunities, but not in a singular metric fashion. Again, home programs favor their own students, so any school with a home ortho program is going to trump one without, but that is a single factor and can't be taken out of context with the rest of the confounding factors. I suspect, based on your posts that you are current PLFSOM student who is unhappy with their school choice.

No I am not a PLFSOM student. I found the info on the schools specific thread.

 

[rball]

If you want to match ortho in Texas, I’d choose Dell over the other TX programs. High Step scores, great curriculum that facilitates those step scores. It’s not just how they select applicants, but also how they teach the material there. Another huge advantage is you get a research year built into the 4 year curriculum. That protected research time is huge for matching ortho, as the volume of publications matters a ton. Dell may not yet have much of a reputation outside of TX, but I have no doubt that if you do well there you can match ortho at least in TX.

I don’t know anything about the UVM program, so I’ll defer to people who do. Caution though - 4% match rate into ortho is not necessarily impressive, and if they don’t match anybody to the home program, I’d wonder how good the relationship is between the ortho faculty/residents and the medical students.

 

[esob]

If you want to match ortho in Texas, I’d choose Dell over the other TX programs. High Step scores, great curriculum that facilitates those step scores. It’s not just how they select applicants, but also how they teach the material there. Another huge advantage is you get a research year built into the 4 year curriculum. That protected research time is huge for matching ortho, as the volume of publications matters a ton. Dell may not yet have much of a reputation outside of TX, but I have no doubt that if you do well there you can match ortho at least in TX.

I don’t know anything about the UVM program, so I’ll defer to people who do. Caution though - 4% match rate into ortho is not necessarily impressive, and if they don’t match anybody to the home program, I’d wonder how good the relationship is between the ortho faculty/residents and the medical students.

The protected year of research is a valid plus for Dell, it was something I didn't factor in with my original thought process.