A medical school for primary care ONLY

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dbeast

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It's no secret that there's a pretty huge primary care shortage. What do you guys think would happen if there were a new set of medical schools that were affiliated with ACGME residencies, but ONLY in primary care? They'd presumably be easier to get accepted, have a curriculum geared toward primary care (ex: a shorter surgery rotation), still grant an MD (or DO?) degree, but you could only match into certain residency programs.

Besides pissing a lot of people off, I think it could help ease the primary care shortage. Obviously this would never happen. But what if it did?

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Hmmm, I would worry that such schools would make life more difficult for traditional medical students who want to go into primary care.

In general, I would prefer to accept graduates from a special primary care medical school to my hypothetical residency - these students ought to be the best prepared-to-be-useful residents in primary care fields. Such a shift in preference would increase the pressure on medical students at traditional schools who hope to match into one of these residencies. Primary care training will be less of a safe bet for students whose credentials are not great.

Furthermore, primary care incentives may be funneled towards these schools since these students are locked into a predictable trajectory. There may be fewer grants, programs, etc available to traditional students who want to enter primary care but maybe didn't decide to do so until sometime during medical school.
 
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I can't see anyone creating a medical school that only allows you to go into unspecialized primary care. Such a school would need to cost significantly less than regular medical school to encourage people to apply, and I imagine many students would be very disgruntled by the time they graduate since they might change their minds about which residency they want by then.

Besides that, nurses are gaining a wider scope of practice and filling that shortage already.
 
It's no secret that there's a pretty huge primary care shortage. What do you guys think would happen if there were a new set of medical schools that were affiliated with ACGME residencies, but ONLY in primary care? They'd presumably be easier to get accepted, have a curriculum geared toward primary care (ex: a shorter surgery rotation), still grant an MD (or DO?) degree, but you could only match into certain residency programs.

Besides pissing a lot of people off, I think it could help ease the primary care shortage. Obviously this would never happen. But what if it did?
Why do that when you could go for NP school at much lower cost?
 
I can't see anyone creating a medical school that only allows you to go into unspecialized primary care. Such a school would need to cost significantly less than regular medical school to encourage people to apply, and I imagine many students would be very disgruntled by the time they graduate since they might change their minds about which residency they want by then.

Besides that, nurses are gaining a wider scope of practice and filling that shortage already.

I don't know that these schools would have a hard time filling their classes. The Caribbean schools, which cost a bunch and come with high risks, are certainly able to drum up a class. While top quality students who may be interested in primary would not choose such a school, there are plenty of applicants out there who are desperate for any MD.
 
I've thought of this same idea myself as well.

I actually think it would be a good thing economically. Separate medical schools for primary care, separate medical schools for research/specialties. Shorter and cheaper training pathway for prim. care. Longer/more expensive path for specialties/subspecialties.

Too bad it'll never happen though.
 
I've thought of this same idea myself as well.

I actually think it would be a good thing economically. Separate medical schools for primary care, separate medical schools for research/specialties. Shorter and cheaper training pathway for prim. care. Longer/more expensive path for specialties/subspecialties.

Too bad it'll never happen though.

What about for those who don't know what they want to do?
 
What about for those who don't know what they want to do?

Ooooohhhh nooo! What about the poor little children?! ... You're old enough to decide that you want to commit the rest of your life to medicine. Primary care vs. Specialty doesn't seem like that huge a decision.
 
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I don't know that these schools would have a hard time filling their classes. The Caribbean schools, which cost a bunch and come with high risks, are certainly able to drum up a class. While top quality students who may be interested in primary would not choose such a school, there are plenty of applicants out there who are desperate for any MD.
That is a very good point.
I've thought of this same idea myself as well.

I actually think it would be a good thing economically. Separate medical schools for primary care, separate medical schools for research/specialties. Shorter and cheaper training pathway for prim. care. Longer/more expensive path for specialties/subspecialties.

Too bad it'll never happen though.
I would hate it if medical education got divided up like that. People frequently ask me which area of medicine I am planning to enter, and I tell them that I will figure that out once I have gone through my 3rd year rotations. I am in no way prepared to make a choice among the various fields of medicine. I have some guesses, but I assume that I will change my mind about where I want to be in medicine as I go through my rotations.
 
I would hate it if medical education got divided up like that. People frequently ask me which area of medicine I am planning to enter, and I tell them that I will figure that out once I have gone through my 3rd year rotations. I am in no way prepared to make a choice among the various fields of medicine. I have some guesses, but I assume that I will change my mind about where I want to be in medicine as I go through my rotations.

Relax, it won't happen anyway.
 
I am relaxed. You are the one who made an ass of himself so far by mocking anyone who thinks differently than you do in this thread.

Really? I made an ass of myself?

Gurl, Please. I simply agreed with OP that dividing medical education into separate pathways - one for primary care fields and another for specialties/surgery/subspecialties is not unreasonable. I mean after all, you're old enough already to make the decision to pursue MD/DO vs. other healthcare professions, so its really not that much of a stretch. Your argument is not particularly strong.

edit: I will only be an incoming M1 so I will readily admit that there is a ton a don't know. However, I do want to say that I see merit in OPs point.
 
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OP, would this be a 3-year program under your proposal? (I guess there are pros and cons to a shortened MD sequence).

Edit: obviously I'd be happy to hear anyone's opinion on a 3 year path.
 
WHy are there people thinking how to further lower the standards for a few medical schools/students? The government will do just a fine job forcing people into primary care by not expanding residency slots in years to come.
 
Really? I made an ass of myself?

Gurl, Please. I simply agreed with OP that dividing medical education into separate pathways - one for primary care fields and another for specialties/surgery/subspecialties is not unreasonable. I mean after all, you're old enough already to make the decision to pursue MD/DO vs. other healthcare professions, so its really not that much of a stretch. Your argument is not particularly strong.

edit: I will only be an incoming M1 so I will readily admit that there is a ton a don't know. However, I do want to say that I see merit in OPs point.

Dumbest idea that I've read in a while. You obviously have no idea how different the specialties and sub-specialties truly are from one another. Also, anyone who says "gurl, please," while spelling "girl" with a u should never again be taken seriously.
 
Really? I made an ass of myself?

Gurl, Please. I simply agreed with OP that dividing medical education into separate pathways - one for primary care fields and another for specialties/surgery/subspecialties is not unreasonable. I mean after all, you're old enough already to make the decision to pursue MD/DO vs. other healthcare professions, so its really not that much of a stretch. Your argument is not particularly strong.

edit: I will only be an incoming M1 so I will readily admit that there is a ton a don't know. However, I do want to say that I see merit in OPs point.
I don't think you realize how much primary care and specialty care connects. Also what if you want to do Pediatric Hematology/Oncology? Then which school do you go to?
 
WHy are there people thinking how to further lower the standards for a few medical schools/students? The government will do just a fine job forcing people into primary care by not expanding residency slots in years to come.
I don't necessarily see this as lowering standards. Aren't primary care programs less competitive anyway?!
 
Primary care vs. Specialty doesn't seem like that huge a decision.
Having a parent who has worked for a med school for 40+ years and having met MANY med students since I was knee high to a grasshopper, I'd beg to differ; you'd be very surprised.
 
LECOM has a 3 year primary care track too.
 
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The Spirit of Uncle Harvey haunts this site...
 
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Eh, I edited in efforts to tone down the rhetoric. But this is SDN on a saturday night, you think people have better things to do with their time?
 
It's no secret that there's a pretty huge primary care shortage. What do you guys think would happen if there were a new set of medical schools that were affiliated with ACGME residencies, but ONLY in primary care? They'd presumably be easier to get accepted, have a curriculum geared toward primary care (ex: a shorter surgery rotation), still grant an MD (or DO?) degree, but you could only match into certain residency programs.

Besides pissing a lot of people off, I think it could help ease the primary care shortage. Obviously this would never happen. But what if it did?

I actually love this idea. If there are people who truly know that they wish to be primary care physicians and/or are willing to commit themselves to working in primary care, they should have the ability to specialize in that area with less fuss; with higher demand for primary care physicians should come new and more innovative ways to get people into the field - this is definitely a possibility.
 
One of the LCME accreditation requirements is that a school has to be able to prove that it can prepare students to enter any specialty (this includes newer schools with primary care emphases). I know this is a theoretical thread, but I find that interesting.
 
One of the LCME accreditation requirements is that a school has to be able to prove that it can prepare students to enter any specialty (this includes newer schools with primary care emphases). I know this is a theoretical thread, but I find that interesting.

Hmm, interesting point. This theoretical 'primary care only' school could just be put on permanent 'probation'... like Baylor 🤣
 
I don't think you realize how much primary care and specialty care connects. Also what if you want to do Pediatric Hematology/Oncology? Then which school do you go to?

Again, you're probably right. But I can just make the argument that don't you realize how much doctoring and nursing care connect. Yet, one is already choosing one vs. the other by going to medical school while still being completely clueless about specialty.

Clearly, the problem of Peds Heme/Onc is solved by creating a separate system of medical schools just for Peds Heme/Onc. 😀
 
Again, you're probably right. But I can just make the argument that don't you realize how much doctoring and nursing care connect. Yet, one is already choosing one vs. the other by going to medical school while still being completely clueless about specialty.

Clearly, the problem of Peds Heme/Onc is solved by creating a separate system of medical schools just for Peds Heme/Onc. 😀
Medicine and Nursing are 2 different pathways. They're 2 different schools with different licensing exams.

Primary care medicine and Specialty medicine both are under Medicine, with the same licensing exams (USMLE Steps 1 - 3)
 
It's no secret that there's a pretty huge primary care shortage. What do you guys think would happen if there were a new set of medical schools that were affiliated with ACGME residencies, but ONLY in primary care? They'd presumably be easier to get accepted, have a curriculum geared toward primary care (ex: a shorter surgery rotation), still grant an MD (or DO?) degree, but you could only match into certain residency programs.

Besides pissing a lot of people off, I think it could help ease the primary care shortage. Obviously this would never happen. But what if it did?

Couple of problems. First, I think you don't understand that med school is already just the bare bones education needed for any medical specialty, primary care or not. You wouldn't want a shorter surgery rotation in primary care. Many primary care residents again do another surgery rotation during residency. Why? Because every primary care patient you recommend for surgery is going to have lots of questions, and you are the doctor with the relationship with them. Your being able to answer questions because you already saw a lap chole, etc, in other words the superior training and knowledge, is what separates you from the midlevels. Similarly, you need to be able to talk intelligently to your conultants. There is already a great divide in those conversations when you have a specialist who did five years of residency and fellowship trying to explain something to the hospitalist who finished a three year more generalized residency, but i dont think you'd want to compound this gap further by separating their basic med school education as well. You dont practice in a vacuum, so a lot of what you need to know to do your job is a basic understanding of everyone else you interact withs jobs as well, at least a little. You don't really want a path where you graduate from med school knowing less. Med school already has a certain amount if elective time built in (especially in fourth year) and you totally could tailor that to things that might be more helpful in a primary care route. Hence no need for the change.

Second, most med students change their minds at least once during med school. You want the ability to change your mind after seeing more. Or changing residencies later (there's always someone in the Gen Res board looking to make a switch). You don't want to lock yourself in to the wrong set of choices because you didn't have the broad med school education that is a foundation for everything.

Third, like college was for med school, med school is just foundation for residency. You don't learn to do primary care in med school and shouldn't. You learn what you need to start pretty low in the learning curve of an intern year. It's not like people are coming out of med school knowing things useful for FM, IM, derm, ortho, radiology, anesthesiology. They got just a taste of those and other things, barely enough to decide if they even liked it. no reason primary care shouldn't have the same tastes. We aren't talking about any sort if substantive learning as is.

Fourth, med school can never address shortages in medicine. The number of residency slots and their allocation does this. You want more primary care then reduce the number of specialist spots and increase the number of primary care spots. And that's if you even believe there is a shortage rather than a geographic distribution issue. But either way there's nothing useful that would have to happen at the med school level to effect this change. As US med school enrollment starts to approximate the number if residency slots, the primary care spots will fill with US grads, naturally, or some people will end up without residency.
 
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Third, like college was for med school, med school is just foundation for residency. You don't learn to do primary care in med school and shouldn't.
And yet in dentistry, at the end of 4 years, you are ready to practice out on your own as a general dentist. And before anyone says anything, the 2 years of basic science at Harvard are taken by Harvard med students and Harvard dental students together.
 
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I actually love this idea. If there are people who truly know that they wish to be primary care physicians and/or are willing to commit themselves to working in primary care, they should have the ability to specialize in that area with less fuss; with higher demand for primary care physicians should come new and more innovative ways to get people into the field - this is definitely a possibility.
I've actually met a few ppl that chose PA and nursing (with the eventual goal of becoming a NP with this path) because they only desired to do primary care.
 
I've actually met a few ppl that chose PA and nursing (with the eventual goal of becoming a NP with this path) because they only desired to do primary care.

I don't know about those schools but the people who you see in the first year of medical school saying that they're interested in IM or family medicine are the ones you know are gunning for derm or ortho.
 
I've actually met a few ppl that chose PA and nursing (with the eventual goal of becoming a NP with this path) because they only desired to do primary care.
And yet most of them do specialty care, just like MDs.
 
I don't know about those schools but the people who you see in the first year of medical school saying that they're interested in IM or family medicine are the ones you know are gunning for derm or ortho.
👍👍👍👍 http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...-knew-before-starting-medical-school.1038064/
"62. Students who start medical school wanting to do primary care end up in dermatology. Those students who start medical school wanting to do dermatology end up in family medicine."
 
And yet most of them do specialty care, just like MDs.
I'm just saying that there might be an available student demographic for such a school. My comment was in reference to 4 ppl and 3 of them actually entered "real PC" (don't know about the 4th).
 
I don't know about those schools but the people who you see in the first year of medical school saying that they're interested in IM or family medicine are the ones you know are gunning for derm or ortho.

To be fair, a lot of them actually ARE thinking IM/FM until they do extremely well on Step 1 or have a bad experience with an attending/rotation. My point being a lot changes in med school and so it would be foolish to have your education geared to just a subset of specialties at that juncture.
 
Dentistry !=medicine
Apparently, in the first 2 years, it is. At least at Harvard. Not to mention, it isn't a long time ago, where physicians became GPs and set up a shingle after doing a rotating internship, which has now disappeared and mainly D.O.s do it.
 
Apparently, in the first 2 years, it is. At least at Harvard. Not to mention, it isn't a long time ago, where physicians became GPs and set up a shingle after doing a rotating internship, which has now disappeared and mainly D.O.s do it.

The training may overlap, but practicing is different. It is hard to hurt your patient as a dentist the way we can in medicine.
 
the way to do this is for all medical schools to offer a primary care curriculum (for those students who want it) and then perhaps followed by a 2 year residency in FP or PRIMARY CARE IM
 
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