A prerequisite mess

[SoIAmConfusion]

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Hello,

So I am an undergrad student who is starting to plan out my exact course of action to get to med school applications. However, I have come across a problem in my planning in regards to prerequisites. I am a dual-degree student, pursuing a BA in Psychology and a BA in dance. Obviously neither of these fit well with med-school prerequisites, so I have to go out of my way to fir those in my schedule.

As it stands now, I have managed to fit all of my classes into 4 years. But in that, I am taking my Orgo and Bio courses at a community college over the summer. I know I shouldn't do that, especially not take two entire sequences of courses at a community college, but there is no other way I would be able to fit my classes into graduating on time. I am not opposed to taking an extra semester or year to be able to finish all of my classes on the same campus, but that just isn't an option because of finances. I am on Illinois Commitment, and that will run out half-way through my senior year. I am already unsure as to how I will manage to afford that one semester, let alone an additional one or two on top of that. And the worst part? I still haven't gotten to the actual problem I'm facing.

So at the community college where I will be taking classes, I will be taking their highest levels of Organic Chemistry two different summers. However, the way it transfers to my home institution, it only counts as the first level of organic chemistry, and a non-course specific label that is meant to show I took organic chemistry and that the credit is kind of accepted but it doesn't translate to any of the courses actually offered by an institution (it's labelled like CHEM2## instead of an actual number). The biology classes transfer over pretty cleanly (one of them is recognized as "general biology for non-majors", which will have to do because of the lack of time). I hope the biology classes are okay? I will be taking statistics, psychology, and general chemistry classes all at my home institution during the year, so those shouldn't be a problem.

So my question, even though it isn't ideal, would those two separate classes of organic chemistry still count as a required "one year" of organic chemistry, even if they don't transfer over that way?

Edit: After playing around with Transferology for a few hours, I have managed to move my plan around a bit. Now I would be taking organic chemistry at my home institution, and general chemistry at the CC in its place. I would assume that doesn't really change anything other than making teh transfer of credits easier for me?

Edit 2: I have successfully managed to move all of my pre-reqs into my regular year schedule! The only classes I will be taking at the community college are English classes (Even though it is possible soe of my seminar dance classes are writing intesinve which might also count for some schools).

 

[LizzyM]

We often hear "it doesn't matter what your major is" but, frankly, double majoring in psychology and dance is not a good idea for the exact reason you've come up against.

Take your pre-reqs at the best school that will admit you. Major in psychology or dance but not both. Don't make this more difficult than it has to be by double majoring. It will impress no one and will just make you crazy. There may be a good dance program at the school where you will matriculate such that you can still be involved with dance without majoring in it. You can still take some dance classes as electives, too, if that floats your boat.

 

[SoIAmConfusion]

We often hear "it doesn't matter what your major is" but, frankly, double majoring in psychology and dance is not a good idea for the exact reason you've come up against.

Take your pre-reqs at the best school that will admit you. Major in psychology or dance but not both. Don't make this more difficult than it has to be by double majoring. It will impress no one and will just make you crazy. There may be a good dance program at the school where you will matriculate such that you can still be involved with dance without majoring in it. You can still take some dance classes as electives, too, if that floats your boat.

That does make sense, and I am very aware of the fact that I may have to do that. But I am trying every possible alternative before I decide to drop one of the majors. Obviously I would likely drop dance, but that would mean that I would no longer have access to any of the upper-level dance classes. I would have dropped one of these majors in an instant if they were just a bid to try and flaunt something as a means to make me a better med-school candidate, but that's not the case. I am doing dance, because this is likely the last time in my life where I will truly be able to dance in a structured setting, and I am going to try and exhaust every other option before I officially decide to end my time with dance. As for the psychology major, that is something that I couldn't consider dropping. I know that the most common thing I hear from doctors and med students is that you will likely change your specialty during medical school. But the reason I want to go to medical school is specifically for psychiatry. Being a doctor, in my mind, is second in importance to having all treatment option at my disposal as a clinical psychologist. Because as of now, there are only 5 states a few territories where having those options at my disposal without attending medical school is an option, I would much rather be able to have the ability to turn to medication regardless of where I end up living.

I know that as of right now, to say I'm fighting an up-hill battle is a gross understatement, I still want to try and find ways to make that work. I will obviously also make sure that I have backup plans if it doesn't, I do want to try and format everything so that medical school is still a viable option for me.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Why take a pre req in the summer? Take a non pre req class at the CC. I had a dual major and completely agree with the wise @LizzyM, it made me crazy. I had a degree in chemistry and education. To get my Bio, chem and Ed requirements in, I had to go to summer school for 2 summers. I took an Ed course one summer and Physics the other summer
I'm glad I did as I have been in med education for my entire career. I am one who does look at where a student took organic chemistry and advanced bio courses who might be looking to pad their gpa's. Just my 2 cents. Good luck and best wishes!

 

[SoIAmConfusion]

The question is wholly irrelevant. The medical school application process doesnt "care/count" transferred classes. It will only count and check where the original classes are taken.

My question to you is why do you feel you must get this classes complete within 4 years so you graduate on time? Since it does not matter when you take theses classes (before or after graduation) to the medical schools. Indeed, over 60% of matriculants take at least one gap year. And with your choice of majors which are atypical of premeds and are very time consuming, you should be well advised to plan on at least one gap year if not more to develop a strong application

The only reason I can't extend my time in school is because of the terms of my scholarships. It would be difficult to finance another semester, especially knowing that I will also have the financial burden of school after undergrad as well. If I manage to find a way to cut costs, or to find other forms of financial aid to help finance another semester, I would do it in an instant and just have all of my pre-reqs done at my home institution. I don't need to graduate in 4 years, I simply need to graduate in 6 semesters (after the current one ends) because after that I lose a substantial amount of my financial aid.

 

[SoIAmConfusion]

your scholarship covers costs of summer CC classes? whether you take these before or after your BA is irrelevant, unless Organic Chem is now required for Dance majors?

No, but the cost of CC is cheaper than the cost of an extra semester at my home institution. The reason I would need to complete these classes within that 6 semester period is only because after that I will have to pay full tuition and fees. So I turned to summer classes at a CC so that taking those extra classes would be considerably less expensive.

 

[SoIAmConfusion]

And if you dont do well with incredibly hard classes, that are now compressed into a summer term, from someone who is not is science heavy major, then medical school may not be in reach. I advise against taking summer Organic to most premeds, and you even more so. You may be saving money but taking a huge risk to the strength of any medical school application

I am not too worried about how I would perform in the chemistry classes, I had a good foundation in high school that covered all of general chemistry one and sections of organic chemistry as well. As of now, I found a way to flip my plan so that I would be taking organic at my home institution and general at the community college. Would that be less bad, or not really change anything?

 

[LizzyM]

You should not take required courses at a community college if you are concurrently enrolled in a university. It looks like avoidance of a weed out class at your home institution or a way of padding the GPA.

One of my children danced while in college but through classes taken at a private dance school and with the dancing school's dance team. There was also an opportunity to dance in an annual show with a troupe organized by a local choreographer. This may depend on how big a city you live in but in some areas it is possible. Are there any extra-curricular opportunities to dance on campus? Try thinking outside the box.

 

[KnightDoc]

The only reason I can't extend my time in school is because of the terms of my scholarships. It would be difficult to finance another semester, especially knowing that I will also have the financial burden of school after undergrad as well. If I manage to find a way to cut costs, or to find other forms of financial aid to help finance another semester, I would do it in an instant and just have all of my pre-reqs done at my home institution. I don't need to graduate in 4 years, I simply need to graduate in 6 semesters (after the current one ends) because after that I lose a substantial amount of my financial aid.

It looks like the question is, given that you will have 6 semesters after the current one, why can't you take something other than med school pre reqs at CC over the summer?

You have good reasons for wanting to do everything you want to do in the time frame you want to do them in, but the adcoms have refused to bless your taking pre reqs at a CC so you can double major, graduate in 4 years, and not incur the additional expense of a gap year, so something is going to have to give.

Again, why do the pre reqs have to be the CC classes? It sounds like they might torpedo your future med school application, since your transcript will show that they were avoidable.

 

[SoIAmConfusion]

It looks like the question is, given that you will have 6 semesters after the current one, why can't you take something other than med school pre reqs at CC over the summer?

You have good reasons for wanting to do everything you want to do in the time frame you want to do them in, but the adcoms have refused to bless your taking pre reqs at a CC so you can double major, graduate in 4 years, and not incur the additional expense of a gap year, so something is going to have to give.

Again, why do the pre reqs have to be the CC classes? It sounds like they might torpedo your future med school application, since your transcript will show that they were avoidable.

I tried to fit psychology classes into those slots instead. Unfortunately, the only psychology classes that would work are the entry level classes which I have already completed through AP credits, and I am past that point in the curriculum. So next I would look at dance classes, but those aren't offered at any of the CCs that are remotely close to either my family home or home institution. Although, now that I think about it, would taking English pre-reqs during summer be better than bio or chem? I could make that switch, but I would still have to take either bio or chem at the CC anyways.

 

[KnightDoc]

Here's a thought -- given that you love dance, and this might be your last hurrah there, why do you HAVE to major in psychology if your dream is to pursue psychiatry in med school? Why don't you consider a psych minor, which will free up time to do everything else you need to do? Will you really need the BA in psych if you are going to be an MD???

 

[MyOdyssey]

Hello,

So I am an undergrad student who is starting to plan out my exact course of action to get to med school applications. However, I have come across a problem in my planning in regards to prerequisites. I am a dual-degree student, pursuing a BA in Psychology and a BA in dance. Obviously neither of these fit well with med-school prerequisites, so I have to go out of my way to fir those in my schedule.

As it stands now, I have managed to fit all of my classes into 4 years. But in that, I am taking my Orgo and Bio courses at a community college over the summer. I know I shouldn't do that, especially not take two entire sequences of courses at a community college, but there is no other way I would be able to fit my classes into graduating on time. I am not opposed to taking an extra semester or year to be able to finish all of my classes on the same campus, but that just isn't an option because of finances. I am on Illinois Commitment, and that will run out half-way through my senior year. I am already unsure as to how I will manage to afford that one semester, let alone an additional one or two on top of that. And the worst part? I still haven't gotten to the actual problem I'm facing.

So at the community college where I will be taking classes, I will be taking their highest levels of Organic Chemistry two different summers. However, the way it transfers to my home institution, it only counts as the first level of organic chemistry, and a non-course specific label that is meant to show I took organic chemistry and that the credit is kind of accepted but it doesn't translate to any of the courses actually offered by an institution (it's labelled like CHEM2## instead of an actual number). The biology classes transfer over pretty cleanly (one of them is recognized as "general biology for non-majors", which will have to do because of the lack of time). I hope the biology classes are okay? I will be taking statistics, psychology, and general chemistry classes all at my home institution during the year, so those shouldn't be a problem.

So my question, even though it isn't ideal, would those two separate classes of organic chemistry still count as a required "one year" of organic chemistry, even if they don't transfer over that way?

Edit: After playing around with Transferology for a few hours, I have managed to move my plan around a bit. Now I would be taking organic chemistry at my home institution, and general chemistry at the CC in its place. I would assume that doesn't really change anything other than making teh transfer of credits easier for me?

Biology/Chemistry/Physics for nonmajors or nurses is not considered acceptable by medical schools. At least my undergrad advised us that was the case.

 

[SoIAmConfusion]

Biology/Chemistry/Physics for nonmajors or nurses is not considered acceptable by medical schools. At least my undergrad advised us that was the case.

That makes sense. Right now I moved my schedule around to instead take microbiology and cellular biology at my home institution, and to take English classes at the CC.

 

[MyOdyssey]

That makes sense. Right now I moved my schedule around to instead take microbiology and cellular biology at my home institution, and to take English classes at the CC.

Do you still plan to take 2 semesters of general biology?

How will you satisfy your biology lab requirement?

 

[SoIAmConfusion]

Do you still plan to take 2 semesters of general biology?

How will you satisfy your biology lab requirement?

Each class lasts a semester and has a lab attached to it. At my institution those are classes that don't require any other biology classes, so I won't be taking any more than those two.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Each class lasts a semester and has a lab attached to it. At my institution those are classes that don't require any other biology classes, so I won't be taking any more than those two.

Make sure your state schools don’t have a specific requirement that you take 2 semesters of general bio with lab. Usually this requirement is relaxed only if your undergrad allows you to place out of them and that’s reflected on your transcript.

 

[LizzyM]

You don't need to have been a psych major to be a psychiatrist.

 

[SoIAmConfusion]

You don't need to have been a psych major to be a psychiatrist.

Yes, I am aware. I think that might be an option I will look into more closely in the coming days. My back-up plan would be to go down the more traditional clinical psychology route, so I just want to make sure that programs I would be interested in (should med-school not work out) will work with a minor in psychology.

 

[candbgirl]

I was a theater major so I know how time consuming dance as a major is. Plus all of your premed requirements and then the psych. When are you going to do your ECs for med school? It’s going to be almost impossible to get everything done without a gap year or two. Look at gen ed requirements and see what you can take at a CC. English is a good start. Also think seriously about the whole double major thing. You are obviously passionate about dance. Do what you love now and worry about psych when it comes to residency. You won’t be thinking about drugs and states that whatever for at least 7-8 years. Don’t worry about that now. Good luck.

 

[MyOdyssey]

@SoIAmConfusion

Some other random thoughts about course work:

Try to squeeze a biochemistry course in your schedule. 2 of the MCAT's 4 sections heavily test biochemistry. Biochemistry is usually taken after orgo 1 and orgo 2.

A surprising number of medical schools require 1 or 2 semesters worth of English classes. Make sure what you're taking satisfies what your state schools require.

1 of the MCAT's 4 sections tests a combination of psychology and sociology in about a 3:1 ratio of psychology to sociology. Taking psychology courses helps prepare you for this section of the MCAT but you don't need to major in it.

Try to make sure that you take a semester of molecular biology/genetics. This is a field that's very important to modern biology and medicine. You'll see this on the MCAT. Microbiology is on the MCAT too but isn't as heavily weighted.

In general, take biology/biochemistry courses that require you to read primary research articles in the field. The biology/biochemistry portions of the MCAT is written in the jargon of research articles in the fields. Learning scientific vocabulary and research techniques will help you prepare.

 

[SoIAmConfusion]

@SoIAmConfusion

Some other random thoughts about course work:

Try to squeeze a biochemistry course in your schedule. 2 of the MCAT's 4 sections heavily test biochemistry. Biochemistry is usually taken after orgo 1 and orgo 2.

A surprising number of medical schools require 1 or 2 semesters worth of English classes. Make sure what you're taking satisfies what your state schools require.

1 of the MCAT's 4 sections tests a combination of psychology and sociology in about a 3:1 ratio of psychology to sociology. Taking psychology courses helps prepare you for this section of the MCAT but you don't need to major in it.

Try to make sure that you take a semester of molecular biology/genetics. This is a field that's very important to modern biology and medicine. You'll see this on the MCAT. Microbiology is on the MCAT too but isn't as heavily weighted.

In general, take biology/biochemistry courses that require you to read primary research articles in the field. The biology/biochemistry portions of the MCAT is written in the jargon of research articles in the fields. Learning scientific vocabulary and research techniques will help you prepare.

As of now I am still wokring out my schdeule, I only have one chemistry class left at the CC, so if I fit that into my regular semester somehwhere I should have that fixed. As for the biochemistry course, my school only offers 1 bio-hemistry course at a 400 level for majors. I searched for others, but that is the -only- biochemichemistry class avilable. My plan was to try and just unoffically study up on in with online courses the best that I can. And similarly, my school offers genetics biology classes at teh 200/300 level, but they are only lectures and have no lab portions that go with them. But I am going to try and find some way to at least get some sort of instruction on that topic. I'm not sure how yet, but I don't think I have a class at my disposal so it will likely have to be something else.