A Prospective School List: Maximizing the Post-9/11 GI Bill

[CraigHack]

Hi Everyone,

This post has two purposes:

1. Asking for help to refine my prospective school list for the 2015 cycle (I will be leaving the military just as classes start in 2016).

2. Providing a reference for individuals planning on using their Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits to help defray the cost of dental school.

First, my stats:

-oGPA 3.74/BCP GPA 3.87/sGPA 3.66
-22AA/22TS/25PAT
-Currently serving as a Captain in the U.S. Marine Corps. Formerly a fixed-wing pilot (EA-6Bs), requested transfer over to non-flight MOS (Adjutant - Admin Officer). Just over 5 years of service. Winged Naval Aviator.
-60 Hours of volunteering, currently an ongoing endeavor (tutoring school-age children). Does not include the hodgepodge of volunteering I did before I joined the military.
-No shadowing yet, have only interviewed dentists so far. Targeting 50 hours of shadowing over the next year.
-I'm omitting all my college extracurriculars, since they're dinosaur old (I graduated in 2009), and my military awards/qualifications, since they'd largely be useless jargon to most people.

How I made my list of prospective schools:

I made a spreadsheet that started with a list of all the dental schools in the US, then narrowed down that list to include only schools that allowed me to maximize my GI Bill benefits. For the uninitiated, the Post 9/11 GI Bill is a military benefit for Active Duty service members and veterans. It pays for 100% of in-state tuition and fees for public universities, or up to $19,198.31 for private universities (as well as some other additional benefits used to defray the cost of school). These benefits last for 36 months, or 3 years of dental school. For more information, see:

http://www.benefits.va.gov/gibill/resources/benefits_resources/rates/ch33/ch33rates080113.asp

With this in mind, it clearly behooves an individual to go to a public institution. Since it only pays up to the amount of in-state tuition, it also is imperative that the individual seek out dental schools located in states that offer residency waivers for veterans. For a good reference to research those states, see:

http://www.studentveterans.org/what-we-do/in-state-tuition.html

With these filters in place, we get this list:

University of Colorado School of Dental Medicine
University of Florida College of Dentistry
Georgia Regents University College of Dental Medicine
University of Illinois at Chicago College of Dentistry
Southern Illinois University School of Dental Medicine
University of Kentucky College of Dentistry
University of Louisville School of Dentistry
Louisiana State University School of Dentistry
University of Maryland at Baltimore School of Dentistry
University of Missouri – Kansas City School of Dentistry
University of Nevada at Las Vegas School of Dental Medicine
Ohio State University College of Dentistry
Oregon Health and Science University School of Dentistry
University of Tennessee Health Sciences Center College of Dent
Baylor College of Dentistry, Texas A&M Health Science Center
University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston SOD
Dental School at University of Texas Health Science Center
University of Utah School of Dentistry (no OOS according to 2014 ADEA)
Virginia Commonwealth University School of Dentistry
University of Washington School of Dentistry

There are other schools that require additional research, such as UAB, UMich, as well as schools that offer unlimited Yellow Ribbon fund contributions (UDMSD and Pitt). There are also schools that offer in-state tuition after your first year of school, which decreases the differential in their costs and the costs of schools listed above. For now, I will omit those, save for two exceptions (UMich and UNC).

Here is my list of tentative schools to apply to, with price tags (based on GI Bill and some assumptions) attached:

VCU $66K
Baylor $30K
UT-Houston $40K
UT-SA $40K
UNLV $60K
Colorado $62K
UW $71K
UNC $76K
GRU $40K
OSU $47K
UMICH $62K
UMD $94K

I am not sure if I should bother applying to the TX schools. Looking at the 2014 ADEA Guide leads me to believe that the few OOS students they admit are often from nearby states, leaving only a handful of spaces for people such as myself who have no ties to TX. That said, if I have a reasonable chance of getting accepted, I would not hesitate to apply. If I remove the TX schools, I would add the following schools:

OHSU $77K
Louisville $64K
UK $60K

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[hugomaaf]

Hi Capt,

Air Force vet here, seems like you did your homework and good job on your DAT!

I can only speak from my personal experience on trying to use the GI Bill for dental school (trying, I am applying this year).

From my experience of applying UNLV, getting in-state residency for application is very important (and difficult), since they require you submit the residency application pretty much the same time u put in your application, which is in June (they said u can file as late as march before school start, but that's for tuition purpose, not for application anymore).

So if I understand correctly, I assume u will be separating in summer 2016, which mean u won't have a DD214 at March 2016 to apply for in-state residency=out of state tuition for your D1 year (which is not bad, since UNLV allow u to obtain in-state after your 1st year, no all school does that). My situation is they don't take my wife's order because she's separating and getting into reserve (need active order), and I don;t have the DD214 that's within 2 years. I ending up starting a business that I already have in my home state, transfer it over to NV in order to apply residency. It cost me a little bit of $$ but since I already have a same business before, that wasn't too painful.

My advice for you is to find out the SPECIFIC guidelines for residency on all the schools that you are thinking about applying, since all your school are state schools. Some school have very strict rule on granting residency (like UNLV), some are not so much.

TX school are really hard to get in as OSS, unless u can get an assignment to TX and become a resident.

and u NEED shadowing hours!!!Go to the clinic on base, and work it out with your boss, 100 hours can be done in 2 weeks of leave, it is 100% necessary.

Hope this help and good luck.

 

[Illfavor]

Man...I just...this post. Look at it guys. He did research. He has a plan. This dude is at step 8 of 10. I mean...ugh. <3

Anyhow, your ECs from college are just as good as any. As are your military achievements. As you suspect, TX is a nonstarter for most. Luckily, your stats and your story make you a very competitive candidate. I'm sure you know about military residency and stuff, but I don't. Just make sure you are sure you know where you are a resident and even ask the schools to be sure. I suck at school lists, but I think you're on the right track.

 

[BabyShades]

If I was in your situation, and only you. I would apply in Texas because you are an EXCEPTION.

 

[CraigHack]

@hugomaaf: Thanks for your insight on residency requirements. I think the next step for me is going to be contacting individual schools to get their blessing/rejection of my current timeline and plan. I actually can flex it so that I exit the service sooner (due to downsizing, we have programs available that allow officers to exit the service 6 months to a year early) if need be, but then I've got to calculate the lost income vs. savings in tuition. Also, I was thinking you were a veterinarian, but now I'm guessing you meant veteran...so yeah.....AIR POWER!

@Illfavor: Thanks for the laugh!

@OutRun: Not to downplay the admissions process, but I got that impression as well from the ADEA guide. 68 Nevada residents applied, and 48 gained admission? Sure, I'll take those odds.

@BabyShades: Thanks for the input. I don't feel like there's a lot of guidance on SDN about applying as OOS to the TX schools, other than pretty much not to do it.

 

[hugomaaf]

@hugomaaf: Thanks for your insight on residency requirements. I think the next step for me is going to be contacting individual schools to get their blessing/rejection of my current timeline and plan. I actually can flex it so that I exit the service sooner (due to downsizing, we have programs available that allow officers to exit the service 6 months to a year early) if need be, but then I've got to calculate the lost income vs. savings in tuition. Also, I was thinking you were a veterinarian, but now I'm guessing you meant veteran...so yeah.....AIR POWER!

@Illfavor: Thanks for the laugh!

@OutRun: Not to downplay the admissions process, but I got that impression as well from the ADEA guide. 68 Nevada residents applied, and 48 gained admission? Sure, I'll take those odds.

@BabyShades: Thanks for the input. I don't feel like there's a lot of guidance on SDN about applying as OOS to the TX schools, other than pretty much not to do it.

AIR POWER!

I was pretty much in the same shoes like you last year around this time. Let me know if you need any other information. Some of the info is hard to look up, but I DO think u have most of it.

 

[Saddleshoes]

Craig
Have you considered joining the Air National Guard in what ever state you end up going to for your education?
Every state is different, but there are some fantastic offers for higher education at state schools for guardsmen.

1. While I did not take advantage of these programs (joined after DS) I had a number of young men in my Air National Guard unit go through college and dental school using the GI bill PLUS benefits provided by the State of Illinois. They were able to live a descent life style while in school and then hit the ground running as new dentists with ZERO DEBT!!!!
2. In my unit we would take a guy like you and put him in an Admin slot in the medical squadron. There, he would get really practical training in the "business end" of health care. Which is something they don't teach you in school but has great practical value in the real world. These guys also got some basic medical and dental training that was valuable later on in school.
3. I also know most Air Guard units would love to have a Marine Corps Captain like you in their unit.

What every you do.... Good Luck with it!

 

[CraigHack]

Thanks Saddleshoes. I'm going to be focusing on civilian opportunities after I EAS, but I think this is good information for others.

 

[hugomaaf]

Capt,

I am not sure what route u took to commission, I know for the chapter 30 GI Bill, the VA will not count your first few years time in service if u were on a ROTC scholarship or Academy Grad.

If u commissioned through OTS with no loan repayment incentive then it was ok (my wife is in med school receiving chapter 30).

 

[CraigHack]

Capt,

I am not sure what route u took to commission, I know for the chapter 30 GI Bill, the VA will not count your first few years time in service if u were on a ROTC scholarship or Academy Grad.

If u commissioned through OTS with no loan repayment incentive then it was ok (my wife is in med school receiving chapter 30).

Solid point. I'm a PLC guy, so I've hit the requirements to reap some sweet GI Bill action. I didn't sign up for the Montgomery (Chapter 30?) benefits because of the pay-in requirement and 2ndLt CraigHack thought he'd never go back to school. Man, if only I could talk to that guy now...



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[HM8483]

Captain0

Hi Capt,

Air Force vet here, seems like you did your homework and good job on your DAT!

I can only speak from my personal experience on trying to use the GI Bill for dental school (trying, I am applying this year).

From my experience of applying UNLV, getting in-state residency for application is very important (and difficult), since they require you submit the residency application pretty much the same time u put in your application, which is in June (they said u can file as late as march before school start, but that's for tuition purpose, not for application anymore).

So if I understand correctly, I assume u will be separating in summer 2016, which mean u won't have a DD214 at March 2016 to apply for in-state residency=out of state tuition for your D1 year (which is not bad, since UNLV allow u to obtain in-state after your 1st year, no all school does that). My situation is they don't take my wife's order because she's separating and getting into reserve (need active order), and I don;t have the DD214 that's within 2 years. I ending up starting a business that I already have in my home state, transfer it over to NV in order to apply residency. It cost me a little bit of $$ but since I already have a same business before, that wasn't too painful.

My advice for you is to find out the SPECIFIC guidelines for residency on all the schools that you are thinking about applying, since all your school are state schools. Some school have very strict rule on granting residency (like UNLV), some are not so much.

TX school are really hard to get in as OSS, unless u can get an assignment to TX and become a resident.

and u NEED shadowing hours!!!Go to the clinic on base, and work it out with your boss, 100 hours can be done in 2 weeks of leave, it is 100% necessary.

Hope this help and good luck.

Hey Captain and Haag, this info is much appreciated!
I was wondering if either of you could give me any updates of your progress towards Dentistry?
I am a corpsman ending my enlistment in a month and plan to pay for undergrad out of pocket and save the GI bill for Dental school. I'm trying to find out as much possible info so I can avoid mistakes and be as strategic as possible. Any words of wisdom from either of you would mean a lot coming from you two.

 

[hugomaaf]

Captain0


Hey Captain and Haag, this info is much appreciated!
I was wondering if either of you could give me any updates of your progress towards Dentistry?
I am a corpsman ending my enlistment in a month and plan to pay for undergrad out of pocket and save the GI bill for Dental school. I'm trying to find out as much possible info so I can avoid mistakes and be as strategic as possible. Any words of wisdom from either of you would mean a lot coming from you two.

I am starting DS (UNLV) in Sep 2015, let me know what kind of questions you might have.

And keep an eye on the military/VA news, some major changes in the post 9-11 GI bill maybe coming in a year or two.

U may not need to save the GI Bill for undergrad, look into the chapter 31 of the GI Bill, my advise is talk to the VA for disability claim, I am currently working on it 7 years after my discharge. ( shame on me , don't be like me)

Good Luck

 

[Daneosaurus]

Use Voc Rehab!!! Ch. 31 is awesome. And don't let the counselors tell you "no". Unlike the military, you don't have to take "no" for an answer from people. You are allowed to be assertive. They certainly can and will get you approved for dental school if you are assertive enough.

 

[CraigHack]

Captain0


Hey Captain and Haag, this info is much appreciated!
I was wondering if either of you could give me any updates of your progress towards Dentistry?
I am a corpsman ending my enlistment in a month and plan to pay for undergrad out of pocket and save the GI bill for Dental school. I'm trying to find out as much possible info so I can avoid mistakes and be as strategic as possible. Any words of wisdom from either of you would mean a lot coming from you two.

Have you been through "TRS" yet? I'm referring to the program where you get prepared for transitioning out of the military, but I don't know what they call it in the Navy. At any rate, those folks are supposed to be able to evaluate your plan and poke holes in it as necessary. What you're proposing makes sense to me, but I'm also not privy to all the minutiae regarding your plan. I would call the VA if you can't find a transition expert to help you.

I'm still active duty, and have about a year and a half left. I'm applying this coming cycle so I can transition right into school instead of taking a gap year. PM me anytime, and I'll try to help the best I can.

 

[Gutiesc]

Have you been through "TRS" yet? I'm referring to the program where you get prepared for transitioning out of the military, but I don't know what they call it in the Navy. At any rate, those folks are supposed to be able to evaluate your plan and poke holes in it as necessary. What you're proposing makes sense to me, but I'm also not privy to all the minutiae regarding your plan. I would call the VA if you can't find a transition expert to help you.

I'm still active duty, and have about a year and a half left. I'm applying this coming cycle so I can transition right into school instead of taking a gap year. PM me anytime, and I'll try to help the best I can.

If TRS is anything like they did it in the Air Force...it's awful. It's more for people who've been in the military so long that they don't know how to pay rent without BAH. Most of the time was spent with powerpoints on how to apply for VA benefits and working on your resume. I tried asking about how I could use my GI bill for dental school and they told me IT WASN"T APPLICABLE! Only for bachelors degrees. As for someone who had major plans for their lives, TRS will not help out much. By "poke-holes" in your plans...they will probably find spelling errors on your resume to teach you not to say "um" so much during interviews. I would stick to calling the VA yourself for specific questions you may have.

 

[WIinNC]

Use Voc Rehab!!! Ch. 31 is awesome. And don't let the counselors tell you "no". Unlike the military, you don't have to take "no" for an answer from people. You are allowed to be assertive. They certainly can and will get you approved for dental school if you are assertive enough.

... that's if he/she even qualifies for VocRehab. Going into the VocRehab office and demanding they pay for dental school is terrible advice in my opinion. If you treat the counselors with respect and show them you have a plan for employment (being a dentist), you have a very good chance of them accepting your plan. Just getting into dental school will most likely impress them enough, because they've seen their fair share of undergrad failures. If you show them a couple BLS statistics saying there is basically no such thing as an unwillingly unemployed dentist, and you qualify for the program, then you're probably good to go.

 

[CraigHack]

Update to the original post (20 May 2015):

Almost a year later, I thought it would be prudent to update this thread with a big change to the Post 9/11 GI Bill. Namely, the Veterans Access, Choice and Accountability Act of 2014.

https://veterans.house.gov/the-veterans-access-choice-and-accountability-act-of-2014-highlights

This bill, which goes into effect 1 July 2015, grants students at public institutions in-state tuition coupled with their GI Bill. The implications for dental school applicants are that we now can go to any public dental institution across the United States and get 36 months of tuition and fees paid in full. This expands the original dental school list from what you see in the OP, to all public dental schools. It provides a great deal of flexibility to the dental applicant to choose schools based on their location and programs vice COA. Since your fourth year will still come out of pocket, COA does still vary across a range of tens of thousands of dollars, but not to the extent previously seen.

 

[hugomaaf]

Capt,

I will add on calling the schools to make sure they are on top of knowing the new law. As many veterans might have experienced, you really can't expect all the bureaucracy work so fast.

 

[Faux]

Update to the original post (20 May 2015):

Almost a year later, I thought it would be prudent to update this thread with a big change to the Post 9/11 GI Bill. Namely, the Veterans Access, Choice and Accountability Act of 2014.

https://veterans.house.gov/the-veterans-access-choice-and-accountability-act-of-2014-highlights

This bill, which goes into effect 1 July 2015, grants students at public institutions in-state tuition coupled with their GI Bill. The implications for dental school applicants are that we now can go to any public dental institution across the United States and get 36 months of tuition and fees paid in full. This expands the original dental school list from what you see in the OP, to all public dental schools. It provides a great deal of flexibility to the dental applicant to choose schools based on their location and programs vice COA. Since your fourth year will still come out of pocket, COA does still vary across a range of tens of thousands of dollars, but not to the extent previously seen.

Attached is a dental school tracker that reflects my personal list of prospective schools. It has been updated with ADEA 2015 data, and represents many public schools across the nation. I hope all of this helps some of you out there. Cheers!

Wonderful news and thats how it should have always been.