A question of personality

[sirthomasbrowne]

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Hi. I'm a 30 year old considering a career change to medicine. Obviously, it would be a considerable challenge at this stage in life and I'm currently trying to interrogate my motives and especially my character to decide whether I'm really cut out for this.

I guess I've always believed that to some extent there's a social identity that goes along with most occupations, and that as such the right personality can be as important - or more important - than the right professional qualifications for a career. For example, if you lay bricks on a construction site, there's a certain social culture that prevails there, and there's another quite different one if you work in a hair salon, and another again if you work in investment banking. I suppose you can say that thinking this way plays to stereotypes but I think there's a lot of truth to most stereotypes, which is why they're so enduring.

Anyway, for me the stereotype about medical people, which I take to be generally true, is that it tends to attract mainly "left brain" (I know that's not a scientific distinction but it's useful shorthand) people with more of a logical, rational kind of personality and a strong background in sciences, math and maybe a lot of overlap with engineering/IT/physics when it comes to academic interests.

That's not really been me, up to this point. I wasn't completely "right brain" at school - I was lucky enough to possess a decent sponge-brain for information of all kinds and I was a sort of straight A across the board type - but I had more of a passion and affinity for history, literature, ethics, moral philosophy, politics and foreign languages. I've always been fascinated by ideas, concepts, "big picture" thinking and maybe a bit impatient with details. I've taken Myers-Briggs tests and repeatedly come out as "INFP" which apparently is supposed to be an emotional, intuitive type and - well, I'm not sure how much stock to put in those things, but I have to say the descriptions have always been pretty spot on, and I've always been a writer and a daydreamer by nature.

So why even consider medicine? Well, as many of you probably know, the internet has kind of economically torpedoed writers and artistic types by setting the value of words and entertainment to nil. But more importantly than that, it's knocked down all the walls and made it a giant free-for-all attention economy whereby everyone who wants to be an artist or journalist ("content creator") has to desperately self-promote on Twitter and Facebook 24 hours a day to stay "relevant." I find that unbearably vacuous and depressing.

I'd like to use my intelligence, such as it is, for something more meaningful than variations on "look at me" all day on Twitter. I'd genuinely like to help people, as cliched as that is. And part of me genuinely thinks that with my empathetic and more heart-first kind of personality, I could maybe be strong at patient interaction and maybe have something to offer in a field like family medicine or psychiatry?

I just know that - when it came to a large part of the academic training, I would have to grit my teeth and force myself through it, like the intellectual equivalent of eating my greens. Because...I have to admit that, sciences really don't float my boat. Especially not Chemistry. Oh god, Chemistry. But I think I possess enough general intelligence to power through it, IF I believe there's a chance of me having a rewarding career and being able to contribute something worthwhile in a clinical setting afterwards.

So I guess my question is - are there other people out there who are from a more humanities/liberal arts background, and who even aren't so passionate about the sciences, but who've survived and even thrived in medicine for the human aspect? Or am I being a bit too quixotic here?

I apologize for the lengthiness...as I said, writer by habit.

Thanks in advance for any insights.

 

[type12]

You're overanalyzing the process. If you want to pursue medicine, pursue it.

The only glaring issue I see is that you say science doesn't float your boat, coupled with the way you bash how others lead their lives. Science encompasses everything, and an appreciation for it and people really helps.

Look internally, and do externally. Get some clinical experience and see if you dismissed science too early. And also, don't judge how others choose to live their life.

After all, YOLO Rebecca Black dubstep #forlife.

 

[Pacna]

I don't think he/she was commenting on others' lives, just an industry he/she was unhappy with.

I agree generally, though. You're over-analyzing it. There are all types in medicine, and all you need is the passion for it.

 

[Mad Jack]

The stereotype and the reality of the "typical" physician personality are very different things. Liberal arts majors are certainly less common in medicine, but what a person's passions and interests are and what major they pursued might be quite different from one another. Most of the residents I know are very well read. Many have hobbies in the music and arts, are history buffs, etc.

I really don't feel a person that is disinterested in the sciences but is exclusively interested in the human aspects of medicine will excel. It is best if you take a good deal of interest in both. One can survive without a great deal of empathy or caring in medicine so long as they excel at the art and science of it, but I really don't think the opposite would work out all that well. If you want feelings with a dash of science, become a nurse.

 

[masaraksh]

So you can't make money with writing so you roll the die and it landed on medicine? And helping people + FM/Psych is 'pretty cool'?

I mean, you're gonna have to give it a bit more than that. Plus, if you just want more $$$ tons of other options out there. Not to mention the fact that the MD is a long and brutal road (pre-reqs + MCAT, application season (aka hell), med school (USMLE), rotations, no sleep, NRMP match where you don't know where you'll end up, working 80hrs a wk during residency, attending isn't exactly the light at the end of the tunnel either..


Edit: don't want to sound to harsh, but medicine is really a long and tough road. Not to mention, mountains of debt(!) and lots of stress and sacrifice.

 

[BrawnsNBrain]

Hi. I'm a 30 year old considering a career change to medicine. Obviously, it would be a considerable challenge at this stage in life and I'm currently trying to interrogate my motives and especially my character to decide whether I'm really cut out for this.

I guess I've always believed that to some extent there's a social identity that goes along with most occupations, and that as such the right personality can be as important - or more important - than the right professional qualifications for a career. For example, if you lay bricks on a construction site, there's a certain social culture that prevails there, and there's another quite different one if you work in a hair salon, and another again if you work in investment banking. I suppose you can say that thinking this way plays to stereotypes but I think there's a lot of truth to most stereotypes, which is why they're so enduring.

Anyway, for me the stereotype about medical people, which I take to be generally true, is that it tends to attract mainly "left brain" (I know that's not a scientific distinction but it's useful shorthand) people with more of a logical, rational kind of personality and a strong background in sciences, math and maybe a lot of overlap with engineering/IT/physics when it comes to academic interests.

That's not really been me, up to this point. I wasn't completely "right brain" at school - I was lucky enough to possess a decent sponge-brain for information of all kinds and I was a sort of straight A across the board type - but I had more of a passion and affinity for history, literature, ethics, moral philosophy, politics and foreign languages. I've always been fascinated by ideas, concepts, "big picture" thinking and maybe a bit impatient with details. I've taken Myers-Briggs tests and repeatedly come out as "INFP" which apparently is supposed to be an emotional, intuitive type and - well, I'm not sure how much stock to put in those things, but I have to say the descriptions have always been pretty spot on, and I've always been a writer and a daydreamer by nature.

So why even consider medicine? Well, as many of you probably know, the internet has kind of economically torpedoed writers and artistic types by setting the value of words and entertainment to nil. But more importantly than that, it's knocked down all the walls and made it a giant free-for-all attention economy whereby everyone who wants to be an artist or journalist ("content creator") has to desperately self-promote on Twitter and Facebook 24 hours a day to stay "relevant." I find that unbearably vacuous and depressing.

I'd like to use my intelligence, such as it is, for something more meaningful than variations on "look at me" all day on Twitter. I'd genuinely like to help people, as cliched as that is. And part of me genuinely thinks that with my empathetic and more heart-first kind of personality, I could maybe be strong at patient interaction and maybe have something to offer in a field like family medicine or psychiatry?

I just know that - when it came to a large part of the academic training, I would have to grit my teeth and force myself through it, like the intellectual equivalent of eating my greens. Because...I have to admit that, sciences really don't float my boat. Especially not Chemistry. Oh god, Chemistry. But I think I possess enough general intelligence to power through it, IF I believe there's a chance of me having a rewarding career and being able to contribute something worthwhile in a clinical setting afterwards.

So I guess my question is - are there other people out there who are from a more humanities/liberal arts background, and who even aren't so passionate about the sciences, but who've survived and even thrived in medicine for the human aspect? Or am I being a bit too quixotic here?

I apologize for the lengthiness...as I said, writer by habit.

Thanks in advance for any insights.

Short answer (because I'm not a writer by nature): Yes. I have an acquaintance who was an English major with biology minor (how? IDK). She went off to med school as well and hasn't dropped out 🙂.

If you feel this career is for you then buckle down and get some science classes in i.e. a post bacc.

 

[LizzyM]

For starters, the pre-reqs for medical school are going to include a year of college Chemistry with labs, a year of organic chemistry with labs and given the time it will take to do those, you might as well throw in a semester of biochemisty. And after it is all said & done, you have a 42% chance of being admitted to medical school, maybe less given your age (the age at which the highest proportion of applicants are admitted for that age group is 21-22).

Are there other careers that are helping professions with less focus on science? Yes, there are. Would you consider becoming a licensed clinical social worker? Clinical psychologist (PhD)? I'd suggest genetic counselor but it requires a fair amount of science (but not so much chem).

There are nursing programs for peeps who already have a BA or BS in another field. Some science but not as much as pre-med. I'm sure I've only scratched the surface of careers for intuitive types who aren't big into science.

 

[Goro]

I have two very good friends on the Faculty here, both DOs, who were English and Drama majors, respectively.

Hi. I'm a 30 year old considering a career change to medicine. Obviously, it would be a considerable challenge at this stage in life and I'm currently trying to interrogate my motives and especially my character to decide whether I'm really cut out for this.

I guess I've always believed that to some extent there's a social identity that goes along with most occupations, and that as such the right personality can be as important - or more important - than the right professional qualifications for a career. For example, if you lay bricks on a construction site, there's a certain social culture that prevails there, and there's another quite different one if you work in a hair salon, and another again if you work in investment banking. I suppose you can say that thinking this way plays to stereotypes but I think there's a lot of truth to most stereotypes, which is why they're so enduring.

Anyway, for me the stereotype about medical people, which I take to be generally true, is that it tends to attract mainly "left brain" (I know that's not a scientific distinction but it's useful shorthand) people with more of a logical, rational kind of personality and a strong background in sciences, math and maybe a lot of overlap with engineering/IT/physics when it comes to academic interests.

That's not really been me, up to this point. I wasn't completely "right brain" at school - I was lucky enough to possess a decent sponge-brain for information of all kinds and I was a sort of straight A across the board type - but I had more of a passion and affinity for history, literature, ethics, moral philosophy, politics and foreign languages. I've always been fascinated by ideas, concepts, "big picture" thinking and maybe a bit impatient with details. I've taken Myers-Briggs tests and repeatedly come out as "INFP" which apparently is supposed to be an emotional, intuitive type and - well, I'm not sure how much stock to put in those things, but I have to say the descriptions have always been pretty spot on, and I've always been a writer and a daydreamer by nature.

So why even consider medicine? Well, as many of you probably know, the internet has kind of economically torpedoed writers and artistic types by setting the value of words and entertainment to nil. But more importantly than that, it's knocked down all the walls and made it a giant free-for-all attention economy whereby everyone who wants to be an artist or journalist ("content creator") has to desperately self-promote on Twitter and Facebook 24 hours a day to stay "relevant." I find that unbearably vacuous and depressing.

I'd like to use my intelligence, such as it is, for something more meaningful than variations on "look at me" all day on Twitter. I'd genuinely like to help people, as cliched as that is. And part of me genuinely thinks that with my empathetic and more heart-first kind of personality, I could maybe be strong at patient interaction and maybe have something to offer in a field like family medicine or psychiatry?

I just know that - when it came to a large part of the academic training, I would have to grit my teeth and force myself through it, like the intellectual equivalent of eating my greens. Because...I have to admit that, sciences really don't float my boat. Especially not Chemistry. Oh god, Chemistry. But I think I possess enough general intelligence to power through it, IF I believe there's a chance of me having a rewarding career and being able to contribute something worthwhile in a clinical setting afterwards.

So I guess my question is - are there other people out there who are from a more humanities/liberal arts background, and who even aren't so passionate about the sciences, but who've survived and even thrived in medicine for the human aspect? Or am I being a bit too quixotic here?

I apologize for the lengthiness...as I said, writer by habit.

Thanks in advance for any insights.

 

[EngineerPreMD]

Hi. I'm a 30 year old considering a career change to medicine. Obviously, it would be a considerable challenge at this stage in life and I'm currently trying to interrogate my motives and especially my character to decide whether I'm really cut out for this.

I guess I've always believed that to some extent there's a social identity that goes along with most occupations, and that as such the right personality can be as important - or more important - than the right professional qualifications for a career. For example, if you lay bricks on a construction site, there's a certain social culture that prevails there, and there's another quite different one if you work in a hair salon, and another again if you work in investment banking. I suppose you can say that thinking this way plays to stereotypes but I think there's a lot of truth to most stereotypes, which is why they're so enduring.

Anyway, for me the stereotype about medical people, which I take to be generally true, is that it tends to attract mainly "left brain" (I know that's not a scientific distinction but it's useful shorthand) people with more of a logical, rational kind of personality and a strong background in sciences, math and maybe a lot of overlap with engineering/IT/physics when it comes to academic interests.

That's not really been me, up to this point. I wasn't completely "right brain" at school - I was lucky enough to possess a decent sponge-brain for information of all kinds and I was a sort of straight A across the board type - but I had more of a passion and affinity for history, literature, ethics, moral philosophy, politics and foreign languages. I've always been fascinated by ideas, concepts, "big picture" thinking and maybe a bit impatient with details. I've taken Myers-Briggs tests and repeatedly come out as "INFP" which apparently is supposed to be an emotional, intuitive type and - well, I'm not sure how much stock to put in those things, but I have to say the descriptions have always been pretty spot on, and I've always been a writer and a daydreamer by nature.

So why even consider medicine? Well, as many of you probably know, the internet has kind of economically torpedoed writers and artistic types by setting the value of words and entertainment to nil. But more importantly than that, it's knocked down all the walls and made it a giant free-for-all attention economy whereby everyone who wants to be an artist or journalist ("content creator") has to desperately self-promote on Twitter and Facebook 24 hours a day to stay "relevant." I find that unbearably vacuous and depressing.

I'd like to use my intelligence, such as it is, for something more meaningful than variations on "look at me" all day on Twitter. I'd genuinely like to help people, as cliched as that is. And part of me genuinely thinks that with my empathetic and more heart-first kind of personality, I could maybe be strong at patient interaction and maybe have something to offer in a field like family medicine or psychiatry?

I just know that - when it came to a large part of the academic training, I would have to grit my teeth and force myself through it, like the intellectual equivalent of eating my greens. Because...I have to admit that, sciences really don't float my boat. Especially not Chemistry. Oh god, Chemistry. But I think I possess enough general intelligence to power through it, IF I believe there's a chance of me having a rewarding career and being able to contribute something worthwhile in a clinical setting afterwards.

So I guess my question is - are there other people out there who are from a more humanities/liberal arts background, and who even aren't so passionate about the sciences, but who've survived and even thrived in medicine for the human aspect? Or am I being a bit too quixotic here?

I apologize for the lengthiness...as I said, writer by habit.

Thanks in advance for any insights.

I 'm interested in your "left brain" impression of those in medicine. I've always felt differently, but I do come from a different background (engineering vs. your writing). When I compare those in my engineering classes to those in my premed classes I found that the premeds were WAY more likely to delve into the idealistic and so-called "wishy-washy" aspects of things (and also extremely more likely to have a deep and unending hatred of math/physics).

For instance, I had to take an engineering bioethics course to graduate. Students would yak for hours about corporate responsibility, upkeep of the free market, effort-based rewards, and the practical downfalls of a benevolent society. I simultaneously took another course in public health with a variety of premed majors that covered some of the same issues. The students seemed to universally believe in the responsibility of the rich to support the poor, the pursuit of non-economical rewards, and rights to significant government support regardless of circumstances for need. I was actually infuriated with myself the whole semester. When I was with the engineers I would think they were cold, but with the premeds I'd be playing devil's advocate with myself thinking it was a bunch of unrealistic, contradicting optimism. I think doctors tend to be "middle brained," which is fitting with their place along both the scientific scale with a soft science like biology, and the societal scale as technical caregivers.

I think you'll find that a "right-brain" does better than you'd think in medical school and medicine in general. Last I heard writers like to read/absorb huge amounts of material. However, you hate chemistry. Remember that while doctors spend a lot of time interacting with patients, the bottom line is providing good treatment, which requires cramming tons and tons of knowledge, including chemistry, biochemistry, and physiology, into your brain.

Just be careful about a few things. The medical community is very much on its high horse, so explaining your passion for medicine by starting with your dispassion for your current career doesn't go over well (kinda like: "why do you want to date me?" "Well my ex was a b*tch!"). Take it from an engineer who went premed. You could literally tell a potential employer you went into engineering for the money and they'd probably just agree with you, BIG faux pas in medicine. Also, this is going to be way more work than you thought. You apply 1.5 years early, and need a ton of pre-reqs/medical/service experiences + MCAT. You'd be looking at starting med school around 32 if you started right now, and it would be VERY busy.

 

[ProfessorKhan]

Hi. I'm a 30 year old considering a career change to medicine. Obviously, it would be a considerable challenge at this stage in life and I'm currently trying to interrogate my motives and especially my character to decide whether I'm really cut out for this.

So you call yourself a writer. You should know, then, that you don't interrogate someone's motives. Rather, you interrogate someone to find out their motives. 🙂

Are you sure it was the internet that prevented you from finding work? I feel like there could be some personal incompetencies here that may offer a better explanation for why you are finding it hard to compete in the literary world. 😛

In light of this, my opinion is that medicine should never, ever be a "backup plan" that you resort to after failing your plan A. After all, if you weren't good enough to be a writer, what makes you think that you could be a doctor?

Of course, this is all just my opinion. 😀

 

[Aerus]

Medicine isn't isolated from the rest of science. It IS science. If science doesn't float your boat, then why do you think you would enjoy being a doctor? You say you want to help people. Well there are A LOT of ways to help people that will better utilize your skills, talents, and most of all, interests. Your considering medicine wouldn't have something to do with money/prestige, would it?

There's a difference between having other interests along with science (like Goro's colleagues) and having other interests instead of science.

 

[EngineerPreMD]

So you call yourself a writer. You should know, then, that you don't interrogate someone's motives. Rather, you interrogate someone to find out their motives. 🙂

Are you sure it was the internet that prevented you from finding work? I feel like there could be some personal incompetencies here that may offer a better explanation for why you are finding it hard to compete in the literary world. 😛

In light of this, my opinion is that medicine should never, ever be a "backup plan" that you resort to after failing your plan A. After all, if you weren't good enough to be a writer, what makes you think that you could be a doctor?

Of course, this is all just my opinion. 😀

@sirthomasbrowne This is the kind of attitude I mentioned in my post above. If your argument for going into medicine is that you don't like the writing world anymore, you're going to get a lot of slack in this field. Because medical school is the only way into this field, and because it's so exclusive, people in the field often tend to hold an attitude of superiority and be very prideful. You have to be not only qualified, but also committed and making sacrifices if you want to join.

@ProfessorKhan I too got the feeling that sirbrowne was considering medicine just because he believed he had "failed" at writing. The post was little self-indulgent and over-confident, with sirbrowne taking it for granted that he could do what so many people can't (get into medical school), and casually mentioning his straight A "sponge-brain." Still, you're doing nothing to help the reputation of your field with that response. Starting with a criticism of his abilities in his field, and then demeaning his field further by suggesting that if he couldn't make it as a writer he certainly wouldn't make it as a doctor.

 

[infinitessimal]

Hey man, Chekhov was a doctor (and a really great one at that). I understand where your opinions are coming from, but I always think it's a bit ridiculous when people separate "artistic" and "science-y" people as if you can't enjoy life being both. The way I see it, if you're very skilled in the right brain, you will almost undoubtedly be very skilled in the left brain. Intelligence doesn't choose a hemisphere. Doctors aren't robots who observe and report. I think there's a great deal of compassion, intuition, and creativity necessary to be a really great physician, especially if you want to advance the field.

I have always loved politics, majored in it and wrote a thesis in political psychology, and I've been trained in classical and contemporary piano and can't imagine my life without my keyboard. That said, I'm absolutely sure I want to pursue medicine because the more I'm exposed to the field, the more excited I become to work in it. If you're seriously considering this, it might be useful to shadow a doctor in a specialty you like, maybe even a specialty you have no current interest in (but might surprise yourself) and see the variety of personalities for yourself instead of relying on a stereotype.

If you decide it's what you truly want to do after that, interest in the sciences will come. I couldn't stand the thought of biology in high school and ended up doing a 180.

Edit: You'll never stop being a writer. On the plus side, you'll have much more interesting things to write about.

 

[sirthomasbrowne]

Well, thank you to everyone who's taken the time to reply. I appreciate all points of view, including the more frankly expressed ones.

@EngineerPreMD I'm particularly grateful to you for describing your own experiences from the engineering point of view. I read that with great interest. You don't have to worry about me going to interview and spouting off with negative things about my previous line of work - I've had enough experience in the world of work to know that's an absolute faux pas. I know that you always come to interview with only positive reasons why you want the position under consideration more than anything else and if anything you talk up what you've done before so as to imply that you left it only because of the New Thing's unrivaled appeal.

I understand the medical community's pride in their line of work and I think they're entitled to it. I wouldn't want to insult anyone by suggesting something they dreamed of doing was something I was merely deigning to do. I think on forums like this it's very easy to come across as flippant about weighty things because you're trying to get a lot of information concisely into a question. I appreciate what a mighty task it is to approach the profession of medicine and if I decide to do so, it will be humbly and in the sinner's sackcloth. I certainly wasn't intending to imply that I take the academic side for granted or that my "sponge-brain" was anything to brag about - I was just trying to establish that I hadn't been completely hopeless in Math and Sciences previously and that my particular concern was more about the personality side of things. It may well be that I'm not smart enough, either, but that's not really something I think it's worth worrying too much about, you just have to give it your best shot don't you?

@ProfessorKhan That was a funny post, enhanced by your judicious use of the forum's delectable suite of emoticons. I liked the cigar-chewing, spittoon-hitting, beautifully contemptuous opening line, "So you call yourself a writer." As if I'd just walked through the saloon doors and announced myself as the new Sheriff in town. I would tentatively suggest to you, cowboy, that it's perfectly reasonable to interrogate motives if you suspect that motives are misrepresenting themselves, that is to say if you think your own mind might be trying to play tricks on you. Sometimes the reasons we give to ourselves or to others for our choices aren't the real reasons at all, if you dig a little deeper. Of course, you can't literally interrogate a motive any more than you can consult your heart, torment your nerves, defy the night or imprison the soul but we tend to express ourselves figuratively, you know, to spice things up a bit. It's Friday - why not have a few drinks tonight and try getting a bit metaphorical with someone? You'll love it, I promise.

@Aerus "Your considering medicine wouldn't have something to do with money/prestige, would it?" I don't think so, is my honest answer. I have asked myself that. I wanted to try to make sure I wasn't, deep down, having those kinds of feelings. I know that a really 24-carat traditional, respected profession like medicine can appeal as a sort of suit of armor to wear against your own insecurities but...I don't think that's what's going on with me. I've never cared much for money, aside from the modest amount you need for an average western lifestyle. Prestige, no. Definitely not. I'd be quite happy to have a profession of Chandler Bing-esque obscurity so long as I was happy doing it. But security/stability might be a factor in my thinking. Unfortunately I have a wife with some chronic health issues that are going to make it hard for her to work much in the future, so I feel some extra responsibility to "provide" and in these precarious times the security of the healthcare field probably appeals.

@infinitessimal Lovely, encouraging comment, thanks. Appreciate it. Do you think you'll still be able to tinkle the ivories and keep up with politics and other interests if you have a top medical career? Reckon it's do-able to remain a relatively rounded person? I knew about Chekhov, yes - I think there's quite a healthy tradition of physician-writers. Bulgakov was a doctor for a while too, and Conan Doyle, and I believe Somerset Maugham studied but didn't practice. Keats came close. And the chap I chose my username after. But I think for most of those guys it was a different time, when medicine was one of the few options you had if you were from a decent family but not an aristocratic one and hadn't inherited property (the others being soldiering, clergy or the dreaded, disreputable "trade"). I think it wasn't quite the all-consuming, ultra-competitive career for them as it is in today's world.

 

[ProfessorKhan]

@ProfessorKhan That was a funny post, enhanced by your judicious use of the forum's delectable suite of emoticons. I liked the cigar-chewing, spittoon-hitting, beautifully contemptuous opening line, "So you call yourself a writer." As if I'd just walked through the saloon doors and announced myself as the new Sheriff in town. I would tentatively suggest to you, cowboy, that it's perfectly reasonable to interrogate motives if you suspect that motives are misrepresenting themselves, that is to say if you think your own mind might be trying to play tricks on you. Sometimes the reasons we give to ourselves or to others for our choices aren't the real reasons at all, if you dig a little deeper. Of course, you can't literally interrogate a motive any more than you can consult your heart, torment your nerves, defy the night or imprison the soul but we tend to express ourselves figuratively, you know, to spice things up a bit. It's Friday - why not have a few drinks tonight and try getting a bit metaphorical with someone? You'll love it, I promise.

Yeah, I have a pretty good sense of humor so my post was intended to be funny. Your original post was funny too, but I'm guessing that it wasn't intentional. It's okay though, sometimes I enjoy laughing at people like you. 😛

It looks like you aren't willing to admit that "interrogating your motives" makes no sense. Good luck interrogating your motives so that you can find the motives of your motives. 😉 You might as well interrogate the motives of your motives too - that way you can find the motives of your motives of your motives.

 

[infinitessimal]

I wholeheartedly believe I'd be able to enjoy interests outside of medicine throughout my life. Maybe there will be periods of time (residency..) when I'd have to put some things on hold, I understand that. But choosing this path doesn't mean I've relinquished my personality to charts and rounds forever. As a premed, I've befriended several med students and residents and got a good peek into their lifestyle, and it's only reinforced these beliefs. That said, I also love the idea of devoting a good chunk of my life to medicine, as corny as that sounds. There's only so much in the job description for which you can truly prepare yourself - there will undoubtedly be surprises and unmet expectations along the way - but I think it's important to be fairly certain you're going to love this, else prepare to be miserable.

Regarding Chekhov and the other writer doctors, I was more referring to the personality aspect of enjoying both medicine and the arts rather than the technical factor of their career. Simply that good writers can make good doctors. Obviously, you'd have to personalize their 5-year plan to suit our time period a little better. 🙄

 

[Womb Raider]

Anyway, for me the stereotype about medical people, which I take to be generally true, is that it tends to attract mainly "left brain" (I know that's not a scientific distinction but it's useful shorthand) people with more of a logical, rational kind of personality and a strong background in sciences, math and maybe a lot of overlap with engineering/IT/physics when it comes to academic interests.

Yes, the majority of physicians appear to be "left brained" because medicine has its very foundation built on logic and reasoning - the scientific method. The balance between the "art of medicine" (i.e. experience based medicine) and "EBM" (evidence based medicine) has been gradually shifting to favor EBM, and will continue to do so.

This paradigm shift in the methods of medical practice has a variety of causes, to name a few: increased communication/technology (databases to calculate risk scores for pretty much everything (strokes, mortality, MACE, etc...), thousands of clinical trials being published so that doctors can communicate worldwide, case reports, etc...) the plethora of guidelines or protocols/algorithms that must be followed for a variety of reasons (bureaucrats and insurance agencies, etc...).

To me, this is somewhat a sad reality, as I believe there really is an art to medicine and guidelines only go "so far." Not to mention the fact that guidelines are for the lazy and discourage ingenuity.

Anyway, back to the left vs right brain idea you introduced. Personally, I believe medicine attracts both the right and left brained people. However, because this "cold rationality" is absolutely imperative in the medical profession, the right brained people that make it through medical school may appear to be "left brained" because their studies have, in a way, molded them.

Does this "transformation" necessarily mean that your right-sided personality is eradicated? Absolutely not, and I believe the great doctors ARE proficient in more right sided qualities than the average doctor (humanities, ethics, people skills, etc...). However, don't be surprised when your right sided qualities feel suppressed after studying science for so long - it happens to everyone and is to be expected.

I'd genuinely like to help people, as cliched as that is. And part of me genuinely thinks that with my empathetic and more heart-first kind of personality, I could maybe be strong at patient interaction and maybe have something to offer in a field like family medicine or psychiatry?

As people have already pointed out - there are many ways to help people. In order to have a good shot of getting into medical school you have to genuinely feel passionate about becoming a doctor. This passion is obviously lacking in your post (which is understandable due to the nature of your post - I'm not implying that it's not there).

"Soul-searching" can only go so far in this area, and eventually you're going to have to get your hands dirty. If you haven't already done so, go shadow some physicians, watch some surgeries, etc... Ask yourself: do I like blood? Does the idea of dissecting a living animal disgust me? Do I want to deal with sick people for the rest of my life (the majority of which are most likely going to be dirty, overweight and old)? Does the idea of doing (insert random medical procedure here) cause you to become so excited about becoming a doctor that you stop watching Netflix and resume studying? Do you know who J.D. and Turk are?

So I guess my question is - are there other people out there who are from a more humanities/liberal arts background, and who even aren't so passionate about the sciences, but who've survived and even thrived in medicine for the human aspect? Or am I being a bit too quixotic here?

I'm very left-brained but I absolutely love the philosophies/ethics - I majored in the humanities and pursued it after I graduated undergrad.

Take everything I say with a grain of salt though, I'm not a physician yet.

 

[sirthomasbrowne]

@ProfessorKhan "Yeah, I have a pretty good sense of humor so my post was intended to be funny. Your original post was funny too, but I'm guessing that it wasn't intentional. It's okay though, sometimes I enjoy laughing at people like you". Glad to be of service.

@infinitessimal Not corny at all! Genuinely noble. We're all so post-modern and ironic and knowing these days that I think we've become almost squeamish about some good old-fashioned sincere passion but I say good for you! If you can't be idealistic at the start of your career when can you be. You must be right about needing to be sure you're going to love it. I'm reminded of the scene in Sleepless In Seattle when nice old Bill Pullman tells Meg Ryan, "marriage is hard enough without bringing such low expectations into it" - if you're going to give your life to something, it better be something more than "pretty alright". I wish you all the best with your studies and I hope medicine holds up its end of the bargain and rewards your dedication.

@Womb Raider Really interesting reply, thanks for that. I'll take your views with a bit more than a grain of salt because you seem like a pleasant, articulate person. Interesting what you say about experience vs. evidence and the trend towards data sets and algorithms. If it's not too nosy of me, what led you from the humanities path towards medicine? I take it at some point you had an experience that awakened in you that genuine passion for being a doctor?

 

[Womb Raider]

@Womb Raider Really interesting reply, thanks for that. I'll take your views with a bit more than a grain of salt because you seem like a pleasant, articulate person. Interesting what you say about experience vs. evidence and the trend towards data sets and algorithms. If it's not too nosy of me, what led you from the humanities path towards medicine? I take it at some point you had an experience that awakened in you that genuine passion for being a doctor?

Actually, it was the other way around. I'm one of those people who knew they wanted to be a doctor since kindergarten. I've always been a "deep thinker" per se, but growing up in the public school system I was never exposed to interesting, thought provoking courses (like the philosophies) until I got to college.

I started out as a typical science major pre-med but quickly changed my major to what is essentially a "philosophy of medicine" or bioethics. This exposed me to a large variety of courses that I found fascinating and would have never been exposed to if I had kept my chemistry major. It allowed me to take about a half-dozen philosophy courses, religious courses, and various other humanity-based courses focused toward medicine.

The science courses are very well and nice (physics was by far my favorite) but they focus on teaching you about the disease, or illness. They don't focus on the other half of being a physician - dealing with the patient. Earlier, I alluded to my opinion that the "science side" of medicine is more important than the "people side" - that is, I would rather have a knowledgeable physician with Aspergers than a mentally incompetent physician who I can "connect" with. It is my philosophy that I will get all the necessary training in the sciences that are required to be a competent physician while taking my pre-reqs and during medical school, why then would I not get started on the OTHER side of medicine? Luckily, (so far) I enjoy both of these aspects of medicine, each with their own unique problems and rewards.

Hope that's what you were looking for.

 

[masaraksh]

...
Anyway, for me the stereotype about medical people, which I take to be generally true, is that it tends to attract mainly "left brain" (I know that's not a scientific distinction but it's useful shorthand) people with more of a logical, rational kind of personality and a strong background in sciences, math and maybe a lot of overlap with engineering/IT/physics when it comes to academic interests.
...

I think this is waaaay off for the majority of pre-meds. At least in my experience. The majority of pre-meds I see have zero interest in engineering/IT.

 

[LizzyM]

I think this is waaaay off for the majority of pre-meds. At least in my experience. The majority of pre-meds I see have zero interest in engineering/IT.

On the other hand, among the applicants to my top 20 school who get interviews, I'd say about 20% are engineering majors.

 

[Pacna]

Well, thank you to everyone who's taken the time to reply. I appreciate all points of view, including the more frankly expressed ones.

@EngineerPreMD I'm particularly grateful to you for describing your own experiences from the engineering point of view. I read that with great interest. You don't have to worry about me going to interview and spouting off with negative things about my previous line of work - I've had enough experience in the world of work to know that's an absolute faux pas. I know that you always come to interview with only positive reasons why you want the position under consideration more than anything else and if anything you talk up what you've done before so as to imply that you left it only because of the New Thing's unrivaled appeal.

I understand the medical community's pride in their line of work and I think they're entitled to it. I wouldn't want to insult anyone by suggesting something they dreamed of doing was something I was merely deigning to do. I think on forums like this it's very easy to come across as flippant about weighty things because you're trying to get a lot of information concisely into a question. I appreciate what a mighty task it is to approach the profession of medicine and if I decide to do so, it will be humbly and in the sinner's sackcloth. I certainly wasn't intending to imply that I take the academic side for granted or that my "sponge-brain" was anything to brag about - I was just trying to establish that I hadn't been completely hopeless in Math and Sciences previously and that my particular concern was more about the personality side of things. It may well be that I'm not smart enough, either, but that's not really something I think it's worth worrying too much about, you just have to give it your best shot don't you?

@ProfessorKhan That was a funny post, enhanced by your judicious use of the forum's delectable suite of emoticons. I liked the cigar-chewing, spittoon-hitting, beautifully contemptuous opening line, "So you call yourself a writer." As if I'd just walked through the saloon doors and announced myself as the new Sheriff in town. I would tentatively suggest to you, cowboy, that it's perfectly reasonable to interrogate motives if you suspect that motives are misrepresenting themselves, that is to say if you think your own mind might be trying to play tricks on you. Sometimes the reasons we give to ourselves or to others for our choices aren't the real reasons at all, if you dig a little deeper. Of course, you can't literally interrogate a motive any more than you can consult your heart, torment your nerves, defy the night or imprison the soul but we tend to express ourselves figuratively, you know, to spice things up a bit. It's Friday - why not have a few drinks tonight and try getting a bit metaphorical with someone? You'll love it, I promise.

@Aerus "Your considering medicine wouldn't have something to do with money/prestige, would it?" I don't think so, is my honest answer. I have asked myself that. I wanted to try to make sure I wasn't, deep down, having those kinds of feelings. I know that a really 24-carat traditional, respected profession like medicine can appeal as a sort of suit of armor to wear against your own insecurities but...I don't think that's what's going on with me. I've never cared much for money, aside from the modest amount you need for an average western lifestyle. Prestige, no. Definitely not. I'd be quite happy to have a profession of Chandler Bing-esque obscurity so long as I was happy doing it. But security/stability might be a factor in my thinking. Unfortunately I have a wife with some chronic health issues that are going to make it hard for her to work much in the future, so I feel some extra responsibility to "provide" and in these precarious times the security of the healthcare field probably appeals.

@infinitessimal Lovely, encouraging comment, thanks. Appreciate it. Do you think you'll still be able to tinkle the ivories and keep up with politics and other interests if you have a top medical career? Reckon it's do-able to remain a relatively rounded person? I knew about Chekhov, yes - I think there's quite a healthy tradition of physician-writers. Bulgakov was a doctor for a while too, and Conan Doyle, and I believe Somerset Maugham studied but didn't practice. Keats came close. And the chap I chose my username after. But I think for most of those guys it was a different time, when medicine was one of the few options you had if you were from a decent family but not an aristocratic one and hadn't inherited property (the others being soldiering, clergy or the dreaded, disreputable "trade"). I think it wasn't quite the all-consuming, ultra-competitive career for them as it is in today's world.

Don't pay attention to the trolls. Just ignore them. Khan is one of them. You only encourage them by replying.

And plenty of people go into medicine for money and prestige. Somebody has to do plastics (kidding, sort of).

 

[heartsink]

And after it is all said & done, you have a 42% chance of being admitted to medical school, maybe less given your age (the age at which the highest proportion of applicants are admitted for that age group is 21-22).

Had to stop for a moment when I read this.

Lizzy I respect you a great deal but this post does not make sense to me. It sounds like you're insinuating traditional 22 year old premeds stand a better chance at getting into med schools due to their age?

Everything I've read suggests this actually works against premeds because they lack the additional gap years worth of clinical experience, research and volunteering (and frankly, life experience) that is had by non traditional premeds, or even traditional premeds that just took a few years off to work in a clinic or do peace corp or something.

The only statistical correlation one could deduce from trending med school applicant and matriculant data is that it's simply more common for med students to start at this traditional age range due to the sheer volume of traditional aged med student applicants. I don't think it's right to discourage the OP using this data in this way because it just doesn't support that cause-effect relationship.

A higher proportion of that age range being accepted has little to do with the year they are born and a lot more to do with their being more likely to be traditional gunner types

 

[LizzyM]

Had to stop for a moment when I read this.

Lizzy I respect you a great deal but this post does not make sense to me. It sounds like you're insinuating traditional 22 year old premeds stand a better chance at getting into med schools due to their age?

Everything I've read suggests this actually works against premeds because they lack the additional gap years worth of clinical experience, research and volunteering (and frankly, life experience) that is had by non traditional premeds, or even traditional premeds that just took a few years off to work in a clinic or do peace corp or something.

The only statistical correlation one could deduce from trending med school applicant and matriculant data is that it's simply more common for med students to start at this traditional age range due to the sheer volume of traditional aged med student applicants. I don't think it's right to discourage the OP using this data in this way because it just doesn't support that cause-effect relationship.

A higher proportion of that age range being accepted has little to do with the year they are born and a lot more to do with their being more likely to be traditional gunner types

I was surprised by these data but it is there in black and white in the MSAR. Looking at number of applicants and number of admitted students by age, the proportion of admitted applicants in each age group would be about 42% if age made no difference. However, the proportion of 22 year olds admitted is >50%. this has nothing to do with how many there are or what proportion they are of the entire pool. Looking at proportion of 19, 20, 21, 22 , 23, 24, 25, etc admitted to medical school the best odds are for 21 -22 year olds.

https://www.aamc.org/students/download/181748/data/chart_10-n.pdf

 

[type12]

I don't think LizzyM is implying older is at a (non-statistical) disadvantage or schools prefer younger applicants. It's just the data, but the reason for it can be many. Perhaps older applicants have already failed at getting into medical school and are chronic reapplicants (I'm guilty of this). If you apply three times since the age of 26, and get in the 3rd time, then 26+ suddenly looks like it has a 33% chance of acceptance.

There are a ton of other factors that can play a role. In general though, people who get in later fall into a few categories: some off the top of my head are "those who couldn't get in and need to improve," "those taking time off to do other things," and "career changers who just don't have the stuff for medicine but try." These are the people that could skew the results.

 

[Goro]

Interesting! Engineering majors are a rarity among my students. I'd say the most common non-Bio or -Chem major would be English.

On the other hand, among the applicants to my top 20 school who get interviews, I'd say about 20% are engineering majors.

 

[touchpause13]

Not every physician is going to have the same personality type. I was an English major with a Women's studies minor.

 

[hmockingbird]

I was also an English major. And I was one of those kids who always wanted to be a doctor (due to personal experiences). However, I loved writing and reading and in high school/college I really thought about pursuing either a publishing job or English lit grad school, but stuck with being a doctor. The #1 reason I did not pick something English/writing-related is because I didn't want to put up with the BS* (what you mentioned about self-promotion and things like having to do crappy unpaid internship jobs to break into publishing) and terrible job markets in those fields. Also, it's possible to write as a hobby, not really possible to practice medicine as a hobby lol, so at least I can still do both.

Recent thread about whether you should go into medicine if you're not passionate about basic science: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/seeking-guidance-specific-to-my-situation.1059855/

*ETA: I know there is BS with every job, medicine included (crazy amount of paperwork, fighting insurance companies to cover things for your patients, etc). So I guess I would just be aware of that stuff while you are shadowing too and know it's something you can put up with. For me, there were very few positives in the publishing industry that made writing seem worth it as my main/sole career.