A rather "unique" re-applicant situation from depression- lost and need help

[mowmow721]

First of all, I'd like to apologize for the long read, but I appreciate you very much if you read through it all. My situation is a little unique, among re-applicants, but I am very lost, not sure where to proceed, and desperately need help.

Essentially, I have lost almost 2 years of my life after graduation to untreated depression that I (stupidly) thought I could handle. This all culminated in me turning in a super late 2016 AMCAS, falling apart completely after some life events exacerbated the depression and shame, and FAILING to turn in the secondaries the schools sent me back- I was just too miserable and apathetic, and knew I was the opposite of prepared on a personal level for medical school. That's right- I now have the distinction of being considered a re-applicant who has never turned in a single secondary, never even gave myself a chance, because of my colossal stupidity, mistakes, and mental health issues.

First, some basic stats and info about me:
3.85 GPA, 3.95 sGPA from a top 15 liberal arts institution, Biochem major
521 MCAT (1st attempt)
Extracurriculars are OK. No research experience but extensive (1500+ hours) volunteer service with leadership positions in multiple service roles. Good LORs. About 100 hours shadowing, along with volunteer work in Hospice, a free clinic, and am currently employed in a doctor's office.

(NOTE: Please just skip to the bottom for the questions if you don't feel like reading sloppy life stories)
I am aware those are quite competitive stats, but it turns out life is so much more than just being good at tests. I found out the hard way, after graduation in 2014, that I was catastrophically bad at all the other skills and characteristics that define functional adults. I hadn't realized how much of a bubble school was for me, surrounded with friends that could provide the support and validation I depended on, comfortable deadlines that kept procrastination in check, no financial worries, and opportunities that sort of just threw themselves at me.

To keep most of the sloppy details out, after graduation, I moved to a new city for a gap year, and then sort of fell apart without the friends and comfortable support structures I was used to. I ended up moving back home out of necessity- I found a decent part-time job in a medical office, but still lived in an environment of shame that made the self-hatred worse. (parents are quite concerned with status, so I was a quiet embarrassment to them in the midst of their friends) For several months in 2015, I was able to throw myself into MCAT prep- I loved it, since it was the first thing in a while that I felt I had control over, that could move life forward in a positive direction, and this led to a 521 score.

This score absolutely convinced my parents that I must apply for the 2016 AMCAS, since it seemed ridiculous to them that I could even consider more time off. I understand their viewpoint, as my life had completely stagnated at this point. When I wasn't at work, I confined myself to my room, apathetic to all the things that had once brought me pleasure like music, books, or even video games with friends. However, it turns out that launching into a stressful application is the last thing I needed. It was around this time also that my girlfriend of 3 years decided to end our relationship- due to the hardship of long distance and the ever increasing distance that depression put between us. For the first time, I realized I was truly alone and had failed everyone.

I was able to struggle through the AMCAS primary application, and get it verified. But around the time secondaries came back, it all just fell apart. I couldn't muster enough care and discipline to pursue what had been my most important dream. The deadlines for the secondaries came and went, and of course, I never turned them in. At some point, I had a meltdown, and I think we all realized at this point I needed to seek professional help.

Now it is 2016. I am glad to report that life is much much better. With the support of my parents (who are 100% on my side now), and mental health professionals, I have rediscovered a lot of the life I thought I had lost. I have also learned so many important, intangible things in this process, that will be invaluable to me forever. I found new friends, volunteer, pursue hobbies, and understand the importance of mindfulness, appreciation, and perspective. Now I feel prepared, on a personal level, to handle the long road of medical school: however, I am worried that I effectively ended that dream of medical school when I submitted the 2016 AMCAS.

However, I will give it the best shot I can. I want to move forward, and refuse to let these mistakes define me.

But I need some help. My main questions are:

1) I submitted the AMCAS, received secondaries, and didn't send them back. HUGE RED FLAG, I assume. I never followed up on the obvious rejections, in part due to fear, and because I just couldn't tell a decent version of the truth. Should I even re-apply to the same schools, or seek out entirely new ones? (When I asked my pre-med advisor, she said to just withdraw from the 2016 cycle and leave it alone, but there was no option to withdraw through AMCAS)

Even if this issue doesn't get the application tossed in the trash, I know I will be asked in interviews if I get that far. How do I answer? I also have a period of about a year and a half after graduation where I did absolutely nothing besides work part time (30 hours/week) in a medical office. How do I explain this? Where do I even start? I believe that medical admissions REALLY don't want to hear about depression, for obvious reasons.

2) Should I also apply for DO schools? My pre-med advisor doesn't think I should, as she believes that even as a re-applicant my stats are competitive enough to not have issues. However, I don't think she realizes the full details of my colossal screw up.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you so much for taking the time to read this. I appreciate any advice, or encouragement. In the end, we will all make it, but I hope I don't have to find another dream.





TL;DR
Sad lad OP graduated in 2014, then couldn't handle the transition to real life, and didn't know how to adult. This spiraled into failure and depression which worsened when back at home. OP applied late to 2016 AMCAS in a moment of extreme stupidity, but the pressure of applications + breakup exacerbated depression and led to meltdown and complete failure to submit secondaries within their deadlines. However, this also led OP to the realization that he needed help.

OP is now in a much better place, but is also in the awkward situation where all state schools are aware he turned in an AMCAS and then didn't turn in their respective secondaries. Even though OP has very competitive stats, ALL the red flags go up in ALL the admissions offices. Is OP screwed? And if not, what do to minimize the damage and not let an episode of depression end dreams?

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[DrMidlife]

Tough love, ignore if you're not up to it.

Your perspective on what happened to you is less mature than I would want to see if I'm reviewing your app. I would want you to have a more personal sense of responsibility to yourself in the prospect of taking on the crazy rigor of medical training, but I just see packaging and other people's takes on your situation. Calling your experience "stupidity" may feel like humility, which is what you're supposed to do, but it's shallow. It's insulting to the vast hordes of everyday people who suffer from depression and don't have parents and money. You could have strong insights and an emotional connection with homeless meth addicts from this experience, but you're apparently focused on GETTING INTO MED SCHOOL. I think you'd fall apart in med school, if you reapply any time soon. You should be primarily concerned with finding out how you hold up under constant ongoing bad external pressure before you take on a decade of training.

One way to go get maturity, while showing that you have a handle on the pressures of adulthood, while discovering your own limitations in light of what you've learned about yourself in the last couple years, is to go get a job and pay rent and live like an independent adult for a couple of years. Show me that, and I'll feel like you're on the other side of an episode that isn't at all uncommon in young people who have never done anything but go to school. Without that, I'll pick one of the other 10-25 apps from strong candidates that I'd have to reject in order to accept you.

In other words:
1. Go find some real responsibilities (like 99% of the world does)
2. Hold up under those responsibilities
3. Learn from those responsibilities
4. Change from those responsibilities
5. Adapt to your mental health circumstances and learn what you personally need to make it through the day consistently and reliably regardless of life circumstances
6. Be willing to consider other life plans than med school. Med school is an unimaginative parent-pleasing life path, if we're gonna be honest about it.
7. Maybe retake the MCAT to show you're still in the game academically, your score will "expire"
8. Reapply

Bottom line: be well.

Best of luck to you.

 

[GrapesofRath]

I'll start off by saying Im sorry to hear about this and your story isnt nearly as unique or damaging as you think it might be. It's not an issue of a "millenial generation" or a sign of "weakness" as Im sure youve heard or thought a million times. Sometimes in life, bad things just happen to pile up all at the same time in a way we cant predict/control and that is overwhelming for just about anybody and we can all respond in ways we never think we would to it. S*** happens, nobody is immune to it. Just ask the hoards of doctors who go through sequences alot more similar to what you had than you think every year. That this happened to you doesnt really say much at all about you personally.

Now having said all this, let's address the points most relevant to you

1) The fact you used the bolded "HUGE RED FLAG" line on "being a reapplicant" while there is everything else youve listed shows that you arent really focused on all the right things right now. The whole "reapplicant stigma" is the least of your worries really. Retaking an unexpired 521 isnt something that you should be thinking about either at this point. Neither is "Do I need DO schools?".

2) Rather, it's pretty clear it's been less than a year since youve had these issues manifest themselves in such a significant way. Youve taken the big first step in addressing them and now "feeling back to normal". But there are many steps in this process. Youve done this on your own terms. That is, youve accomplished this with your parents support, your own support structure, in your own house, with all the therapists you want etc. That isnt the type of environment that induced all this. To really say youve grown from all this the way that you want and need, you need to go back into the environment which triggered all this and where youll spend your adult life which is outside of your comfort zone.

3) So I think it would be a good idea to strongly consider moving out once again, getting away from this established support and comfort zone and trying to establish your own one in a new environment in real life settings. Get a job, do americorps, do research. Hell work as a bartender if you need to make ends met. Doesnt really matter. Just go back to the type of scenario that triggered all this and see if you are really over it and can respond the way you want to and will need to. To really address the issue here and show you are ready for a career in medicine or frankly a career in many othe fields, prove yourself in the environment that overwhelmed you previously.

4) I'll spare the "you should really re-consider medicine" "medicine is a parental pleasing choice" "medicine is a furnace" "depression is one of the leading factors for drop out and unsatistfaction in medicine" soap boxing because it's not really relevant here right now, Im not the person to be doing it and it's not necessary nor practical particularly at this point. But the key here continue to monitor your health, progression, stability on a week to week basis. Trying to rush through this is the worst thing you can do here. Your focus needs to be week to week, month to month etc. Not jumping into a decade long training and a 40 year process in medicine or some other field. When will be the time to take the plunge? Nobody can answer that. It might be next year. You might respond really well if you move out into the real world now. It might be 5. Or 10. Or, 5 years from now you might be checking in from Harvard Law school or Deloitte amongst a million other things. It's not really relevant right now.

5) What's relevant is the process, not skipping steps nor halfa***ing them. If you have to stay with your parents and your comfort zone for some more time before really being ready to move out, then that's the path to take. This isnt a race is the biggest point here as much as anything: there's a reason teh average MD matriculant MS1 age keeps rising not falling.

Good luck with it all, youd be surprised by how many incredibly successful people have gone through similar episodes like this in their life around your age. The key word though is "episode". You cant really call this an episode merely until you have gone through the process of getting past this and not skipping steps. To answer your question most directly in your post, being a reapp with stats this high isnt ideal. It's nothing that cant be overcome with a good strategy and perspective at all though. Hardly. Follow the steps of overcoming your problems, make it apparent in your application and the rest takes care if itself. That's all there is to it.

 

[mowmow721]

Tough love, ignore if you're not up to it.

Your perspective on what happened to you is less mature than I would want to see if I'm reviewing your app. I would want you to have a more personal sense of responsibility to yourself in the prospect of taking on the crazy rigor of medical training, but I just see packaging and other people's takes on your situation. Calling your experience "stupidity" may feel like humility, which is what you're supposed to do, but it's shallow. It's insulting to the vast hordes of everyday people who suffer from depression and don't have parents and money. You could have strong insights and an emotional connection with homeless meth addicts from this experience, but you're apparently focused on GETTING INTO MED SCHOOL. I think you'd fall apart in med school, if you reapply any time soon. You should be primarily concerned with finding out how you hold up under constant ongoing bad external pressure before you take on a decade of training.

One way to go get maturity, while showing that you have a handle on the pressures of adulthood, while discovering your own limitations in light of what you've learned about yourself in the last couple years, is to go get a job and pay rent and live like an independent adult for a couple of years. Show me that, and I'll feel like you're on the other side of an episode that isn't at all uncommon in young people who have never done anything but go to school. Without that, I'll pick one of the other 10-25 apps from strong candidates that I'd have to reject in order to accept you.

In other words:
1. Go find some real responsibilities (like 99% of the world does)
2. Hold up under those responsibilities
3. Learn from those responsibilities
4. Change from those responsibilities
5. Adapt to your mental health circumstances and learn what you personally need to make it through the day consistently and reliably regardless of life circumstances
6. Be willing to consider other life plans than med school. Med school is an unimaginative parent-pleasing life path, if we're gonna be honest about it.
7. Maybe retake the MCAT to show you're still in the game academically, your score will "expire"
8. Reapply

Bottom line: be well.

Best of luck to you.

Hey, thanks for the advice. I didn't mean at all to trivialize the real and difficult fight with depression that others have, and I apologize if it presents itself that way. It was poor word choice, I just didn't want to make it clear I didn't want to externalize the blame for these mistakes to depression or other circumstance. I have a job and work 30-35 hours a week, and am responsible for all my expenses and food, however, I don't pay rent. I understand that comment, and will strongly consider trying to make a move out in the meantime, and I know that I will not be fully independent until I do. I also know that I am exceptionally lucky to have support mechanisms throughout this whole process, and that there is a real chance I would be homeless on the street right now if I did not have these.

And I understand your other comments, and agree with them on some level. However, I strongly believe that I want to move forward, and no, medical school is not a "parent-pleasing life path" for me if that was the assumption. My parents are supportive of all life paths, but they want to see me be successful, thriving, and achieving my full potential. The desire to be a doctor stems from numerous volunteer experiences, the individuals I befriended, the privilege of hearing their unique stories. I want to be someone that can provide the comfort of skilled medical care, whilst also taking a minute to listen and appreciate the humanity of those I serve. I strongly don't want to put my life on hold for another few years- I understand that I still have a lot of maturing to do on a personal level, but I don't want to be approaching 30 when I even start the path towards a career. That scares me, on some deep level, and I don't know if I can do that. I know that people wiser and older than me will tell me that life shouldn't be a rush to get somewhere, but the active process of pursuing something and having a defined goal I am striving for is a huge component of satisfaction and motivation for me. Also, I truly believe that I thrive in a academic environment. I know medical school is demanding, and a pressure cooker of stress, but there a lot of the same structures in place that allowed me to do so well in all aspects of life in undergraduate school. But I know even that will end, and I will have to face all the challenges of real life at some point sooner or later. I just don't know...

Thank you, however. I will think about what you said, even though it is a little discouraging. It is the truth.

 

[mowmow721]

I'll start off by saying Im sorry youve gone through all of this and this story isnt nearly as unique or damaging as you think it might be. It's not an issue of a "millenial generation" "Entitlement" or a sign of "weakness" as Im sure youve heard or thought a million times. Sometimes in life, bad things just happen to pile up all at the same time in a way we cant predict/control and that is overwhelming for just about anybody and we can all respond in ways we never think we would to it. S*** happens, nobody is immune to it. That this happened to you doesnt really say anywhere near as much about you might think.

Now having said all this, let's address the points most relevant to you

1) The fact you used the bolded "HUGE RED FLAG" line on "being a reapplicant" while there is everything else youve listed shows that you arent really focused on all the right things right now. Yes, being a reapplicant with stats this high isnt ideal, but it's the least of your worries really. To anwer your concern directly, have a good strategy on a reapp, show improvements, and with stats this high youll be fine. Retaking an unexpired 521 isnt something that you should be thinking about either at this point. Neither is "Do I need DO schools?".

2) Rather, it's pretty clear it's been less than a year since youve had these issues manifest themselves in such a significant way. Youve taken the big first step in addressing them and now "feeling back to normal". But there are many steps in this process. Youve done this on your own terms. That is, youve accomplished this with your parents support, your own support structure, in your own house, with all the therapists you want etc. That isnt the type of environment that induced all this. To really say youve grown from all this the way that you want and need, you need to go back into the environment which triggered all this and where youll spend your adult life which is outside of your comfort zone.

3) So I think it would be a good idea to strongly consider moving out once again, getting away from this established support and comfort zone and trying to establish your own one in a new environment in real life settings. Get a job, do americorps, do research, work anywhere etc whatever, it doesnt really matter at this current moment. Just go back to the type of scenario that triggered all this and see if you are really over it and can respond the way you want to and will need to. To really address the issue here and show you are ready for a career in medicine or frankly a career in many othe fields, prove yourself in the environment that overwhelmed you previously.

4) I'll save the "you should really re-consider medicine" "medicine is a parental pleasing choice" "medicine is a furnace" "depression is one of the leading factors for drop out and unsatistfaction in medicine" soap boxing because it's not really relevant, Im not the person to be doing it and it's not necessary nor practical particularly at this point. Rather, instead of making a big jump into a field like medicine at the time, continue to monitor your health, progression, stability on a week to week basis. Trying to rush through this is the worst thing you can do here. You say your parents are "on your side now", will they be if you tell them you arent applying this year despite your stats and that you are moving out? This is the first of many many things youll have to take on, confront, work and power through etc.

5) Focus on your progress, your development, your goals on a week to week basis, not trying to jump into a 40 career year path like medicine right now. When will be the time to jump into medicine? Nobody can answer that or if that's what you should do. It might be next year. You might really find if you move out you are really over your issues and in a happy place. Or it might be 5 years from now. OR 10. Or 5 years from now you might find yourself better suited for dental school, for Wall street, for Harvard law school etc. We dont know and really it doesnt matter at the time. There's a reason the average MD matriculant MS1 age keeps rising, not falling. You are the perfect type of person who should consider that and how little of a "race" this is to get into med school and get done as soon as possible and be someone your parents can now more easily "brag" about, especially when youve done as well as you have in the past. Heck, there is no rush to move out of your support system yet, if you still need another few months or even a year in it and feel like it is helping you develop/grow, that's not an issue either. You cant skip steps in the process here or halfa** them.

Good luck with it all, like I said at the beginning this isnt as unique as you think. Youd be surprised by how many incredibly successful people have gone through similar episodes like this in their life around your age. The key word though is "episode". You cant really call this an episode merely until you have gone through the process of getting past this and not skipping steps. How you respond and change from something like this is what defines and decides life trajectories not that this occured.

First of all, I appreciate the response a lot, and can't thank you enough.

1) When I said HUGE RED FLAG, I didn't mean just because of the re-applicant tag, but rather because I'm sure medical schools can see that I turned in a primary AMCAS application to them, while not turning in secondaries. I'm sure any reasonable admissions officer would see that there is something suspicious about that situation, and might take the safe route of tossing the next application in the trash. Even if I get in an interview situation, I would have to explain it, and for the reasons you listed in point 4, depression is frowned upon. I don't want to be unethical, and make up some nonexistent life crisis, but I don't know how I can be 100% honest either without sinking myself.

2) and 3) I fully agree, like the poster above you also commented on. Thank you guys for the insight, and I will think about it a lot. While I want to believe I am functional and thriving now, I also understand I haven't disconnected myself from the support structure of my family. I will assess my savings and financial situation, and attempt to move out as soon as possible. I work at a medical office ~35 hours a week, but I have filled the rest of my time with volunteer commitments that I love, and don't want to give up. But perhaps if I can't make do on part time work, then I need to understand sacrifices have to be made, or perhaps I can find work through weekends...

4) and 5) See the second part of my response to the previous poster, it should answer the personal motivation I have for medicine, and the reason I feel very uncomfortable about accepting that now is now the time to move forward.

 

[Goro]

Agree 1000% with my young colleague.

Also, OP, keep in mind that med school is a meatgrinder, and I've seen it break even healthy students. So go into this eyes wide open.

Tough love, ignore if you're not up to it.

Your perspective on what happened to you is less mature than I would want to see if I'm reviewing your app. I would want you to have a more personal sense of responsibility to yourself in the prospect of taking on the crazy rigor of medical training, but I just see packaging and other people's takes on your situation. Calling your experience "stupidity" may feel like humility, which is what you're supposed to do, but it's shallow. It's insulting to the vast hordes of everyday people who suffer from depression and don't have parents and money. You could have strong insights and an emotional connection with homeless meth addicts from this experience, but you're apparently focused on GETTING INTO MED SCHOOL. I think you'd fall apart in med school, if you reapply any time soon. You should be primarily concerned with finding out how you hold up under constant ongoing bad external pressure before you take on a decade of training.

One way to go get maturity, while showing that you have a handle on the pressures of adulthood, while discovering your own limitations in light of what you've learned about yourself in the last couple years, is to go get a job and pay rent and live like an independent adult for a couple of years. Show me that, and I'll feel like you're on the other side of an episode that isn't at all uncommon in young people who have never done anything but go to school. Without that, I'll pick one of the other 10-25 apps from strong candidates that I'd have to reject in order to accept you.

In other words:
1. Go find some real responsibilities (like 99% of the world does)
2. Hold up under those responsibilities
3. Learn from those responsibilities
4. Change from those responsibilities
5. Adapt to your mental health circumstances and learn what you personally need to make it through the day consistently and reliably regardless of life circumstances
6. Be willing to consider other life plans than med school. Med school is an unimaginative parent-pleasing life path, if we're gonna be honest about it.
7. Maybe retake the MCAT to show you're still in the game academically, your score will "expire"
8. Reapply

Bottom line: be well.

Best of luck to you.

 

[italiancowgirl]

I can't say enough how critical it is to take time when life throws obstacles in your way. You will not know the depth that this has changed you until you have had to fully process and move forward. The fact that waiting scares you is exactly why you should take a deep breath and go slow. You can't go into medicine to relieve pressures (internal or external!). Sounds like you need to spend more time getting to knowyou before you can learn what you need to to truly help others. You will certainly be able to get there, nothing you wrote is that big of a red flag, but take time because you sound like a time bomb! GL