A SDN PS Database? Would you donate?

[Textuality]

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Trying to draft a Personal Statement can be daunting, especially if (like me) you barely have an idea of what should even go in one. I had a great premed advising office to give me a hand, but mostly, I had great upperclassmen friends who let me read theirs so that I could get a feel for things.

I thought it might be nice if SDN had a PS database of donated PS statements from successful applicants (you can even separate MD/DO/Md-PhD). You could donate yours anonymously to help out others 🙂 Maybe it could be done Digg style, and people could vote so that the ones they found most helpful stayed at the top? Or would that be mean?

Anyways, this is all speculation, haha. For all I know, nobody would want to donate their PS, in which case, this is just me being fanciful.

 

[rowerlauren]

I would be willing to include mine. I think that the personal statements shouldn't be put up until after your application year/AMCAS closes.

I really learned a lot about what to write and how to write mine from my friend's PS and helping others edit theirs so I definitely see the benefit to such a thing.

 

[rowerlauren]

I would be willing to include mine. I think that the personal statements shouldn't be put up until after your application year/AMCAS closes.

I really learned a lot about what to write and how to write mine from my friend's PS and helping others edit theirs so I definitely see the benefit to such a thing.

 

[Textuality]

I would be willing to include mine. I think that the personal statements shouldn't be put up until after your application year/AMCAS closes.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say with the "after you get accepted" part, heh.

Maybe this should just be a poll for people already done and could donate immediately? Or maybe I should have had 4 options for those would do it now, and those who would do it in the future?

 

[Textuality]

I would be willing to include mine. I think that the personal statements shouldn't be put up until after your application year/AMCAS closes.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say with the "after you get accepted" part, heh.

Maybe this should just be a poll for people already done and could donate immediately? Or maybe I should have had 4 options for those would do it now, and those who would do it in the future?

 

[LikeClockWork]

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say with the "after you get accepted" part, heh.

Maybe this should just be a poll for people already done and could donate immediately? Or maybe I should have had 4 options for those would do it now, and those who would do it in the future?

I think more options would be good. I'd probably be willing to donate, but not for a while yet.

 

[LikeClockWork]

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say with the "after you get accepted" part, heh.

Maybe this should just be a poll for people already done and could donate immediately? Or maybe I should have had 4 options for those would do it now, and those who would do it in the future?

I think more options would be good. I'd probably be willing to donate, but not for a while yet.

 

[Textuality]

I think more options would be good. I'd probably be willing to donate, but not for a while yet.

Heh...well, I guess I was just curious how feasible it'd be if someone wanted to make one right now (i.e. how many of us who are matriculating now/ current med students would be willing to donate). As opposed to 2 years down the road or something. Maybe I should have posted this the Med Student forum?

 

[Textuality]

I think more options would be good. I'd probably be willing to donate, but not for a while yet.

Heh...well, I guess I was just curious how feasible it'd be if someone wanted to make one right now (i.e. how many of us who are matriculating now/ current med students would be willing to donate). As opposed to 2 years down the road or something. Maybe I should have posted this the Med Student forum?

 

[PreMD86]

I'd donate my PS to it. How are you planning on protecting the content so that kid's don't just copy-paste our statements?

 

[Brodiewankenobi]

only if its anonymous

 

[Dienekes]

So let me get this straight....you want to make a database- free of charge- where people can find ideas to steal for their PS? Where someone who didn't want to write their own personal statement could simply come, find one that seems to fit them- for socioeconomic background, race, age, sex, sexual orientation, school, geographic location? Damn boy, that needs to be made searchable by those criteria (AND MORE!) and posted immediately!

 

[Textuality]

I'd donate my PS to it. How are you planning on protecting the content so that kid's don't just copy-paste our statements?

Well, there are books with other people's personal statements, and theoretically, they could just copy from there too. But I don't think it's a huge concern because a PS is pretty hard to "copy-paste" since it's so unique to each person's experiences. And who would want to run the risk of the adcom remembering that line from somewhere else and get caught for plagiarizing? Or risk the chance that other applicants applying in the same cycle copies the same lines, and it becomes even more obvious to the adcom that they copied it from somewhere?

People might be tempted to cheat, sure. But I'd like to think the majority of people wouldn't and that it'd be a helpful tool to most. But if the cynic's/realists win the poll, then it's really a non issue, haha.

ANd of course it'd be anonymous

 

[rowerlauren]

The thing is that if it is publicly accessible that means it's accessible to AdComs as well. So someone submitting a copied essay is liable to be found out fairly easily by knowing what site to search.

 

[Dienekes]

But I don't think it's a huge concern because a PS is pretty hard to "copy-paste" since it's so unique to each person's experiences.

And that precludes from people from simply claiming they did it too? I mean we have a high percentage of premeds have a serious lack of morals when it comes to things that will potentially help them get in. They are human after all and people as a general rule are underhanded in their deals when there are sufficient rewards at stake.

And who would want to run the risk of the adcom remembering that line from somewhere else and get caught for plagiarizing?

A lot of premeds are lazy and stupid.

Or risk the chance that other applicants applying in the same cycle copies the same lines, and it becomes even more obvious to the adcom that they copied it from somewhere?

See previous response.

 

[PreMD86]

That's the thing- It would have to be publicly available, not just to SDN members.

 

[Textuality]

And that precludes from people from simply claiming they did it too? I mean we have a high percentage of premeds have a serious lack of morals when it comes to things that will potentially help them get in. They are human after all and people as a general rule are underhanded in their deals when there are sufficient rewards at stake.

Well, that'd require them to make up that activity in their EC section of the AMCAS as well, and it'd be increasingly tricky to get away with it, especially since what's discussed in the PS often gets discussed more in depth at interviews. Those determined to be dumb and to cheat as much as they can, will probably do it anyways. I guess the prospect doesn't bother me that much since they're mostly just putting themselves at severe risk, and I still like think that the majority of applicants are not complete and lazy douches. Maybe I'm just being too hopeful.

Anyways, it's just a silly poll, hehe.

 

[Textuality]

That's the thing- It would have to be publicly available, not just to SDN members.

Sure, the interview database and mdapps are open to the public as well aren't they? And everyone can READ SDN forums, you just have to be a member to post.

 

[Dienekes]

Well, that'd require them to make up that activity in their EC section of the AMCAS as well, and it'd be increasingly tricky to get away with it, especially since what's discussed in the PS often gets discussed more in depth at interviews. Those determined to be dumb and to cheat as much as they can, will probably do it anyways. I guess the prospect doesn't bother me that much since they're mostly just putting themselves at severe risk, and I still like think that the majority of applicants are not complete and lazy douches. Maybe I'm just being too hopeful.

Anyways, it's just a silly poll, hehe.

Well, I understand the desire to help out your fellow premed, I just think it's better to let us all figure it out on our own so that we do not give the morally bankrupt amongst us an unfair advantage.

 

[chad5871]

I think it's a good idea and I'd be willing to donate once I get accepted. I also like the idea of ranking each PS, but I understand how this could turn out to be a bad idea. I don't think the plagiarizing would be an issue, since there are already websites and books publicly available that have plenty of sample personal statements.

 

[chad5871]

Well, I understand the desire to help out your fellow premed, I just think it's better to let us all figure it out on our own so that we do not give the morally bankrupt amongst us an unfair advantage.

I don't understand how this is any different from the dozens of medical school personal statement books and websites, many of which have a bunch of sample essays. I don't think it is immoral to look at a sample essay for some inspiration. If everyone who uses outside help with their PS is "morally bankrupt," I think 95% of us here would be in trouble.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I would absolutely donate mine.

 

[Textuality]

The other thing is, I think some of the best ones are the ones that are very personal, have a strong "voice" to them, and are very detailed and unique. I really don't think it'd be an easy thing to do to just copy something like that, you'd have to essentially pretend you've had all of this other person's experience. I don't know, I guess I'm trying to imagine someone submitting my essay as their own, and trying to talk about "their" work with the ICU and the studies they worked on, and "their" training in my sport with enough conviction and fluidity that they'd fool the interviewer.

 

[URHere]

I would be willing to donate my PS and my MD/PhD essays...assuming that some other MD/PhD students donate so my essays aren't the only ones...

 

[bawer234]

I'm willing to share it with certain people, but definitely not anonymous SDN pre-meds. I'm sure it would help out some people who truely want to use it for just an idea of how one should be written, but I see just as many kids out there using it because they are lazy and unoriginal and want to speed up their application process.

Edit: I think SDN is a great tool, but somethings need to be done on your own. The PS is the one tool that should be written solely by the individual applicant. I just can't in good conscience hand over an essay that I put personal experiences into and that took weeks for me to write so that some kid can use it as a stepping stone. It just feels like I would be doing the work for them. I'm all for helping people out with proof reading and ideas, but pasting my PS on SDN where anyone can google it just feels a little violating.

 

[Textuality]

I would absolutely donate mine.

Aw, thanks for not making me feel like a starry-eyed idiot for thinking this would be a good idea😍
Haha, the smiley doesn't help my cause, I know.

 

[MacBook Pro]

Terrible idea!

 

[bawer234]

Aw, thanks for not making me feel like a starry-eyed idiot for thinking this would be a good idea😍
Haha, the smiley doesn't help my cause, I know.

I think its a good and well intentioned idea but don't you see the HUGE possibility for plagarism and the stealing of others' ideas and experiences?

It's like communism...its a good idea but it just doesn't work.

 

[Textuality]

I'm willing to share it with certain people, but definitely not anonymous SDN pre-meds. I'm sure it would help out some people who truely want to use it for just an idea of how one should be written, but I see just as many kids out there using it because they are lazy and unoriginal and want to speed up their application process.

Edit: I think SDN is a great tool, but somethings need to be done on your own. The PS is the one tool that should be written solely by the individual applicant. I just can't in good conscience hand over an essay that I put personal experiences into and that took weeks for me to write so that some kid can use it as a stepping stone. It just feels like I would be doing the work for them. I'm all for helping people out with proof reading and ideas, but pasting my PS on SDN where anyone can google it just feels a little violating.

Totally understand 🙂 Which is why only people comfortable with it would you know...actually donate, heh...

::Shrug:: I guess I just found it so helpful to read my older friends' statements, saved me from a lot of floundering, heh.

 

[Lacheln]

I'm torn on this one. First of all, I respect the idea behind it. We are all built on the people who've come before us - I've received a lot of help during this process from many places and people, including SDN. I ran my PS by one of the PS readers and she was wonderful (thanks fireflygirl!! you rock!! 😍), so giving something back in theory sounds great.

However, I wouldn't be able to donate mine since it is probably far more personal than most and would be too potentially identifiable. Even if that wasn't the case, however, I'd be concerned about donating it to an anonymous, freely-available pool. I would have no problem sharing it with individuals, and will be volunteering to help people with theirs next year, but the idea of having something I poured so much of myself into just floating around in space, unattributed, bothers me.

Like I said though, I'm torn, so if it gets off the ground kudos to those who support it.

 

[Textuality]

I think its a good and well intentioned idea but don't you see the HUGE possibility for plagarism and the stealing of others' ideas and experiences?

It's like communism...its a good idea but it just doesn't work.

I guess I really don't, heh. I mean, I couldn't possibly even try to plagiarize most of the great statements I've read, or pass it off as mine at an interview. I don't really know how I"d pretend to have those life experiences, but maybe I'm just a bad BS artist.

Oh well. If anyone wants to read mine (and try to pretend to be me for a cycle) you're welcome to, hehe. http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dd73b3pw_3ddr7
(I figure it's only fair of my to share since I seem to support it right? Haha. There wasn't a good way to do this anonymously...sorry)

 

[wedogogirl]

.

 

[Textuality]

Yeah, I actually expected most people to be against it/not want to be part of it. I was just curious. Heh.

 

[schismal]

If I get accepted, I'd donate mine. And an anonymous ranking system could be nice so long as people don't spam low scores just for the hell of it. I doubt I'll care what anyone thinks of my PS after I get into med school, and it won't be of further use to me.

Cheaters will always find a way to cheat. And some people are acting like this proposition would represent the only source of statements online, which is obviously false. Just make the database easily searchable, list the year of submission, and I think any similarly reasonable precautions will be fine. Maybe those people who hunch aggressively over their desks during exams so no one can see their answers might have an issue with this, but I don't consider myself so paranoid about the vices of others.

 

[flaahless]

I'll donate mine. It's really personal but I planned on writing a book about the same stuff anyways.

I'm cool on the ranking system though. That seems like some neurotic premed stuff. And if someone decides to cheat with my ps, well, they will have a LOT of explainging to do come interview time.

 

[kavorca]

I don't think it's too much to ask to write a PS without a database. I think a couple of samples is enough of a guide. It would be too easy to cherrypick lines and ideas from a database of thousands of PS.

 

[bawer234]

If I get accepted, I'd donate mine. And an anonymous ranking system could be nice so long as people don't spam low scores just for the hell of it. I doubt I'll care what anyone thinks of my PS after I get into med school, and it won't be of further use to me.

Cheaters will always find a way to cheat. And some people are acting like this proposition would represent the only source of statements online, which is obviously false.

Hardly. There's a big difference between getting your car broken into and stolen and leaving the doors open with key in the ignition and the engine running.

Just make the database easily searchable, list the year of submission, and I think any similarly reasonable precautions will be fine. Maybe those people who hunch aggressively over their desks during exams so no one can see their answers might have an issue with this, but I don't consider myself so paranoid about the vices of others.

Its easy to take our comments that way but a lot of people don't want to hand their hard work over to slackers and cheaters, not just the ultra-paranoid premeds. I'm 100% fine with you sharing your information with anyone, its just not for me and a lot of other people on this forum. I just don't want to give out any free rides to people who I don't know, will never know, and who could possibly use it to cheat for their benefit.

 

[bawer234]

I don't think it's too much to ask to write a PS without a database. I think a couple of samples is enough of a guide. It would be too easy to cherrypick lines and ideas from a database of thousands of PS.

Which is EXACTLY what will happen. Maybe not the specific experiences and examples that are in the PS's but definitely the take home messages. I am basing this off of a "slippery slope" theory, but human nature is enough evidence for me to find this extremely plausible.

 

[ninjapenguin]

The problem lies in plagiarism. What happens if two people on opposite sides of the country decide to copy the same posted personal statement and apply to the same school? I just don't think the idea of a database is a good idea in general; at least not one so readily available on the internet.

I have no problems passing my personal statement along, since I am done with the application cycle, but only to those who's intentions I know are sincere.

 

[schismal]

Hardly. There's a big difference between getting your car broken into and stolen and leaving the doors open with key in the ignition and the engine running.

How would this be any different than buying a book and cherrypicking lines from those essays? I guess this has the benefit of being convenient and free, but any gunner who would go to those lengths would surely spend an afternoon plagiarizing the books in Barnes & Noble...

Its easy to take our comments that way but a lot of people don't want to hand their hard work over to slackers and cheaters, not just the ultra-paranoid premeds. I'm 100% fine with you sharing your information with anyone, its just not for me and a lot of other people on this forum. I just don't want to give out any free rides to people who I don't know, will never know, and who could possibly use it to cheat for their benefit.

Well, I wasn't actually referring to your lack of desire to participate. Plenty of people wouldn't feel comfortable letting others read their PS, and I respect that. I was speaking more toward the fear of cheaters gaining the upper hand.

 

[flaahless]

I don't think it's too much to ask to write a PS without a database. I think a couple of samples is enough of a guide. It would be too easy to cherrypick lines and ideas from a database of thousands of PS.

Word, I like that idea.

 

[FenixTx]

f

 

[Abilene85]

I think there are plenty of resources out there that provide example personal statements and do a good job of giving you ideas for things to include. I felt a little lost at first, but after a quick internet search and actually getting started (which was the hardest part for me), things fell into place. I think I had a fairly standard PS, but it was sincere, and here I am in medical school - my point being that you don't need a witty or tear-jerking masterpiece to be accepted.

My worry about a PS database is that some pre-meds might go through and copy ideas that sound good or come from successful applicants, even if they're not doing word-for-word plagiarism. Writing the PS really makes you think about your motivation for a career in medicine. Why MD and not PhD or PA? The point is to do some soul-searching to find the answer, not to search for other people's ideas and use them. Again, I'm not saying all people would copy ideas, but some people who don't have a good reason for going into medicine (and who maybe shouldn't continue down that path yet if they haven't given it serious thought) might find something that sounds good and then just rewrite it.

 

[Raryn]

I would be happy to donate mine. Hell, if theres another pre-med with who Russian immigrant physician parents and the *exact* same experiences as me (not bloody likely!), they can feel free to use it.

 

[Narmerguy]

I think this is a lot different than those sample books. For one, those same books stay in circulation for several years so their sample essays will be visible to multiple waves of applicants. This increases the likelihood that another student/adcom will have seen that essay before. Also, books are copyrighted. This stuff isn't. The fear of the punishment that would result is much less for information from an anonymous forum. Hell for all anyone knows they could rightfully claim they wrote the entry a long time ago and that it was copied from them. It's anonymous how is anyone going to prove it unless you can find the school where the original was submitted and get them to step in which requires tedious coordination most schools probably aren't interested in managing.

Really the only thing holding a person back from stealing sections from some anonymous database (besides normal plagiarism rules) is morals and we know how well that runs with some premeds.

And honestly, it's a PS. Just take a look at a few to get an idea of what you're aiming at and then apply your own personal style and life history to it. I think a massive database is unnecessary for what you're trying to do. It is a novel idea though, kudos for that.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I'm really surprised how many people are opposed to this idea. I thought there'd be a little dissent but a generally positive response.

Also, books are copyrighted. This stuff isn't. The fear of the punishment that would result is much less for information from an anonymous forum.

I seriously doubt that someone with the brass (and lack of brains) to plagiarize a personal statement would even momentarily worry about a copyright violation.

Really the only thing holding a person back from stealing sections from some anonymous database (besides normal plagiarism rules) is morals

How about wasting an absurd amount of time and money and forever tanking your chances at achieving your dream? Those would be significantly stronger deterrents than my conscience.

 

[kavorca]

I don't see the purpose of having thousands of PS to access. What benefit will it have that is not achieved by a sample size of 5?

 

[fireflygirl]

I would donate mine too. I think if something were to exist, it would have to exist anonymously just to make others more comfortable.

I think it's a good idea since I have read many personal statements during which I advised the writers to start over and would offer my PS in addition to a lengthy explanation of what I think makes up a good PS. I saw PSs tremendously approve once people who had no concept of what a PS looked like read something on what should go in it and see an example using the tips I suggested. I really think this could benefit future pre-meds.

 

[Law2Doc]

I think there are plenty of resources out there that provide example personal statements and do a good job of giving you ideas for things to include. I felt a little lost at first, but after a quick internet search and actually getting started (which was the hardest part for me), things fell into place. I think I had a fairly standard PS, but it was sincere, and here I am in medical school - my point being that you don't need a witty or tear-jerking masterpiece to be accepted.

My worry about a PS database is that some pre-meds might go through and copy ideas that sound good or come from successful applicants, even if they're not doing word-for-word plagiarism. Writing the PS really makes you think about your motivation for a career in medicine. Why MD and not PhD or PA? The point is to do some soul-searching to find the answer, not to search for other people's ideas and use them. Again, I'm not saying all people would copy ideas, but some people who don't have a good reason for going into medicine (and who maybe shouldn't continue down that path yet if they haven't given it serious thought) might find something that sounds good and then just rewrite it.

Agree. In a couple of minutes of google searching, I find five or six such statements. That should be plenty as examples. You shouldn't be looking for more because those give you enough of the general format, and the meat of the statement needs to be "personal". Plus, I agree, as more and more statements are circulated, it's likely folks will see one that is close to their own experiences and goals and modify it to fit. It will be different enough that it wouldn't be plagiarism per se, but close enough that residency directors would recognize the tone and concepts, and probably start throwing out good essays with bad because they were so unoriginal. So best to get an idea of form from the handful you can find on the web and then have appropriate people read and edit a statement written from your own head and life.

 

[Narmerguy]

I seriously doubt that someone with the brass (and lack of brains) to plagiarize a personal statement would even momentarily worry about a copyright violation.

Actually, I'm sure they would. It's a matter of how much you can be held accountable for your actions. You get caught copying some kid on the internet, who cares? You get caught copying a book that's been published...yeah.

How about wasting an absurd amount of time and money and forever tanking your chances at achieving your dream? Those would be significantly stronger deterrents than my conscience.

You're joking right? No one does any of these things with the expectation of getting caught so this is completely irrelevant.

I'm really surprised how many people are opposed to this idea. I thought there'd be a little dissent but a generally positive response.

Really? I'm surprised that this would surprise you.