A secondary asks me to explain grades below a B-. Should I really do that?

[mrh125]

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[AspiringERMD]

If it's a required prompt, then of course you have to address it. If possible, try to focus on what you learned/what you'd do better. Don't blame anyone else.

 

[Jepstein30]

Yes?

just don't post a stupid excuse (i.e. it was a hard class) and actually take onus for your mistake.

of course, if there were extenuating circumstances (think death in the family, severe sickness, etc.) then definitely explain that.. just don't post something like "my professor hated me" or "i was doing really well until the final which I did poorly on because I didn't get sleep the night before."

 

[mrh125]

Yes?

just don't post a stupid excuse (i.e. it was a hard class) and actually take onus for your mistake.

of course, if there were extenuating circumstances (think death in the family, severe sickness, etc.) then definitely explain that.. just don't post something like "my professor hated me" or "i was doing really well until the final which I did poorly on because I didn't get sleep the night before."

I was thinking of doing something generic like I didn't understand the material well at the tme and since then i've improved my study techniques for each of them and did better as noted by my mcat sci scores and the retake of the english course. Can I just say lump them all under one and say that?

 

[mehc012]

I hope I don't get this one...I've tried very hard to not make excuses, and some of my reasons just don't fit the tone of a professional app.

Is it acceptable to state that there were extenuating circumstances without elaborating as to what they were? I have some explanation as to how I have improved my time management so that even when the sh1t hits the fan in the future, I won't mess up, but it still feels odd to skirt that close and not discuss.

 

[Goro]

Seems self-explanatory to me. I think I'd skip this school.

The question is: Please provide details regarding academic difficulties, grades below "B minus", or course withdrawals.

 

[mrh125]

I hope I don't get this one...I've tried very hard to not make excuses, and some of my reasons just don't fit the tone of a professional app.

Is it acceptable to state that there were extenuating circumstances without elaborating as to what they were? I have some explanation as to how I have improved my time management so that even when the sh1t hits the fan in the future, I won't mess up, but it still feels odd to skirt that close and not discuss.

Yea, I agree with what you're saying. Also I just remembered the reason i got a c+ in stats was because I didn't complete the last page on the final because I didn't realize it was there until the last 5 minutes of the final. Could I put that in or just skip it and go with I didn't prepare myself well and since then I've developed better study techniques?

 

[zzxxzz]

Also I just remembered the reason i got a c+ in stats was because I didn't complete the last page on the final because I didn't realize it was there until the last 5 minutes of the final. Could I put that in or just skip it and go with I didn't prepare myself well and since then I've developed better study techniques?

That's an example of an excuse that makes you look worse, not better. It's a horrible excuse.

go with I didn't prepare myself well and since then I've developed better study techniques?

Did you get decent grades interspersed with bad grades? If so, that excuse isn't going to fly. You got a C in stats after getting an A in a harder math course? You can't blame that on poor study techniques.

I'm not sure what I'd say here. Many people get poor grades when they start, or several poor grades in one semester. Those can generally be excused. Getting bad grades randomly - or, worse, in your more difficult courses, like physics - doesn't look great.

 

[mehc012]

That's an example of an excuse that makes you look worse, not better. It's a horrible excuse.



Did you get decent grades interspersed with bad grades? If so, that excuse isn't going to fly. You got a C in stats after getting an A in a harder math course? You can't blame that on poor study techniques.

I'm not sure what I'd say here. Many people get poor grades when they start, or several poor grades in one semester. Those can generally be excused. Getting bad grades randomly - or, worse, in your more difficult courses, like physics - doesn't look great.

Which is exactly why I'm concerned...I have 2 bad semesters (multiple C+s) due to extenuating circumstances I'd rather not discuss...interspersed at random.

 

[mrh125]

That's an example of an excuse that makes you look worse, not better. It's a horrible excuse.



Did you get decent grades interspersed with bad grades? If so, that excuse isn't going to fly. You got a C in stats after getting an A in a harder math course? You can't blame that on poor study techniques.

I'm not sure what I'd say here. Many people get poor grades when they start, or several poor grades in one semester. Those can generally be excused. Getting bad grades randomly - or, worse, in your more difficult courses, like physics - doesn't look great.

No most of my grades are As. I've only had a few Bs as well.

My english grade was in the first semester of college and I had a jarring transition (dropped out of high school, took a high school equivalency exam, went to CCs). my writing techniques weren't on par. Next semester I retook with a new prof, went to a prof's office hours daily, and made sure I developed and learned the techniques necessary to succeed.

physics - that excuse more or less fits what happened. I wasn't used to the learning style and the way material was presented. Since them I've improved my study techniques through a wider exposure of courses, understood, and scored well in physics on the mcat. Physics is the only premed course i didnt get straight As in (A+s in organic).

stats - I went in with a B and ended up not realizing the last page of a final was there until the last 5 minutes, so I ended up with a c+. Since then I made sure to check all the pages on tests right away. first/last time that issue happened. I got As in calc 1, calc 2, calc 3, differential equations, discrete math, and linear algebra. stats - nope. stats is a different kind of math though.

thoughts? idk how to look better with the stats because that's what happened.

 

[zzxxzz]

My english grade was in the first semester of college and I had a jarring transition (dropped out of high school, took a high school equivalency exam, went to CCs). my writing techniques weren't on par. Next semester I retook with a new prof, went to a prof's office hours daily, and made sure I developed and learned the techniques necessary to succeed.

I think that explanation is sufficient. Having retaken it within 1 semester helps.

physics - that excuse more or less fits what happened. I wasn't used to the learning style and the way material was presented. Since them I've improved my study techniques through a wider exposure of courses, understood, and scored well in physics on the mcat. Physics is the only premed course i didnt get straight As in (A+s in organic).

Not a great excuse, but you could probably cite your 10 in PS as some evidence of improvement. If you took some of the math courses you list below after physics, you could also cite them.

stats - I went in with a B and ended up not realizing the last page of a final was there until the last 5 minutes, so I ended up with a c+. Since then I made sure to check all the pages on tests right away. first/last time that issue happened. I got As in calc 1, calc 2, calc 3, differential equations, discrete math, and linear algebra. stats - nope. stats is a different kind of math though.

Stats is a different type of math, sure. But it's generally considered easier than calc - I know this as a former stats tutor. Absolutely do not say you forgot the last page until it was basically too late. This makes you look scatterbrained and forgetful at best. Yea, mistakes happen, especially in stressful situations. But you'll be under stressful situations in med school.


I got one B- after my first semester of freshman year, and if I were to answer this prompt honestly, I'd say the final wasn't representative of the material that I studied (practically everyone bombed the final, but I wouldn't say that). I think you might be able to say that as well.

The general theme I'd suggest is that this is all on you, even if in reality it wasn't. In life, nobody really wants to hear excuses. Everyone makes mistakes; few are willing to admit to them, and fewer still to drastically change themselves as a result. Focus on that.

 

[mrh125]

I think that explanation is sufficient. Having retaken it within 1 semester helps.



Not a great excuse, but you could probably cite your 10 in PS as some evidence of improvement. If you took some of the math courses you list below after physics, you could also cite them.



Stats is a different type of math, sure. But it's generally considered easier than calc - I know this as a former stats tutor. Absolutely do not say you forgot the last page until it was basically too late. This makes you look scatterbrained and forgetful at best. Yea, mistakes happen, especially in stressful situations. But you'll be under stressful situations in med school.


I got one B- after my first semester of freshman year, and if I were to answer this prompt honestly, I'd say the final wasn't representative of the material that I studied (practically everyone bombed the final, but I wouldn't say that). I think you might be able to say that as well.

The general theme I'd suggest is that this is all on you, even if in reality it wasn't. In life, nobody really wants to hear excuses. Everyone makes mistakes; few are willing to admit to them, and fewer still to drastically change themselves as a result. Focus on that.

thanks I'll work on inserting what you said. stats and physics were both after my other math courses though. My physics class was more qualitative and had a constructivist pedagogy/socratic method style. Physics just never clicked with me, what I said in the previous post is probably the best I can come up with. I understood it a lot better when I was studying for the mcat though.

 

[mrh125]

Seems self-explanatory to me. I think I'd skip this school.

The question is: Please provide details regarding academic difficulties, grades below "B minus", or course withdrawals.

What makes you say I should skip this school? Are they just mining for red flags and excuses with that question?

 

[Spinach Dip]

What school is this?

Remind me to not apply to them.

 

[Plecopotamus]

I have 2 Cs in physics, a c+ in statistics (after As from calc 1-differential equations), and a D in the first semester of English I ever took which I retook and got an A. Do I really have to explain this?
The question is: Please provide details regarding academic difficulties, grades below "B minus", or course withdrawals.

It's almost like they're looking for people to give excuses all I can say for any of these is that I had trouble understanding the course material and since then I improved my study techniques and got better grades.

This is the second time you've asked whether you could NOT answer the question asked by a school.

Think about that.

I'm not saying this to be mean, but to encourage you to reevaluate the way you're interacting with this process. If you think your response is too damning, Goro's advice is reasonable. It is UNreasonable, however, to expect that you're going to pick and choose which rules of the game you play by -- thousands of other applicants are playing by all of them. Do you really want to stand out as the person who can't follow requests, won't self reflect, or who thinks he's more special than his peers?

I can think of multiple ways in which this prompt could be used. I do not think honest answers are necessarily bad, even if they seem silly. If you missed a page of an exam, however, the lesson you learned isn't going to be better study habits--that's not truthful. I do not believe my Alma mater asks this question, but if they did, I suspect that in addition to picking up genuine understandable reasons for poor performance (illness, death, etc.), they would be looking for evidence of insight, capacity for self reflection and admission of errors, and interest in relevant self improvement . . . qualities more valuable in a physician than tip top mastery of every premed course.

If you decide to submit this secondary, I would strongly consider preemptively addresing why/how this will not be an issue when you encounter material in medical school that raises similar problems for you.

 

[Ismet]

I agree with Goro and Plecopotamus. If a secondary asks a question and it is not optional, you have to answer it. Not answering it or not answering the exact question asked shows that you lack the ability to follow directions or think you're too special to answer the question like everyone else. A good application can be brought down by failure to appropriately answer the secondary essay prompts given. So if you feel as though you cannot or don't want to give this essay your full effort, save your money and skip this secondary.

 

[ciestar]

Every time you post one of these I really start soul searching...but I guess that's the point of a secondary, to really dig deep within yourself as a person?

Thank god I have a good reason for my single C+. The harsh reality of a C got my butt back in gear.

But definitely don't make excuses for anything, that just makes you look wildly immature.

 

[Mad Jack]

If you just put your fingers in your ears and go "lalalalalalalala" the prompt won't just go away. Not filling it out will make them think you can't even do what you're asked in addition to getting C grades. Fill it out. Explain that you improved as a student and learned from the experience rather than making excuses. Show that your mistakes were an experience that helped you grow academically and as a person and you'll stand the best shot possible of getting in.

 

[mehc012]

I agree with Goro and Plecopotamus. If a secondary asks a question and it is not optional, you have to answer it. Not answering it or not answering the exact question asked shows that you lack the ability to follow directions or think you're too special to answer the question like everyone else. A good application can be brought down by failure to appropriately answer the secondary essay prompts given. So if you feel as though you cannot or don't want to give this essay your full effort, save your money and skip this secondary.

Right, but to avoid making excuses...is it acceptable to skirt around the specifics of the circumstances and focus more on how you have adjusted your habits so that extenuating circumstances will not derail you so easily in the future?
dftba

 

[Ismet]

Right, but to avoid making excuses...is it acceptable to skirt around the specifics of the circumstances and focus more on how you have adjusted your habits so that extenuating circumstances will not derail you so easily in the future?
dftba

Yes. You want to address the problems, but I'd say it's more pertinent to address how you overcame and adjusted whatever you had to change in order to prevent it from happening again.

And dftba

 

[mehc012]

Yes. You want to address the problems, but I'd say it's more pertinent to address how you overcame and adjusted whatever you had to change in order to prevent it from happening again.

And dftba

Haha, I'm HOPING it doesn't come up again...but somehow "I've fixed my time management issues so that if something comes up, I am still able to finish my work" seems more professional than "I don't plan on being attacked or threatened by any of my current or future acquaintances", because yeah, no one does, but it HAPPENS (and family members get ill, you get ill, injuries occur, etc...life happens.) However, I'm not basing my schedule on "if nothing goes wrong I can get everything done" anymore, and it has made a world of difference.

 

[amvet70]

The question is: Please provide details regarding academic difficulties, grades below "B minus", or course withdrawals.

The general theme I'd suggest is that this is all on you, even if in reality it wasn't. In life, nobody really wants to hear excuses. Everyone makes mistakes; few are willing to admit to them, and fewer still to drastically change themselves as a result. Focus on that.

“thanks I'll work on inserting what you said.”

The answer to the secondary question is unique to you. Don’t plagiarize others.

 

[Ismet]

Haha, I'm HOPING it doesn't come up again...but somehow "I've fixed my time management issues so that if something comes up, I am still able to finish my work" seems more professional than "I don't plan on being attacked or threatened by any of my current or future acquaintances", because yeah, no one does, but it HAPPENS (and family members get ill, you get ill, injuries occur, etc...life happens.) However, I'm not basing my schedule on "if nothing goes wrong I can get everything done" anymore, and it has made a world of difference.

Right, just be sure to show more than tell. Don't just say you've fixed your time management issues. Describe what you did and how it has worked for you, and how those new time management skills will help you tackle medical school.

 

[mehc012]

Right, just be sure to show more than tell. Don't just say you've fixed your time management issues. Describe what you did and how it has worked for you, and how those new time management skills will help you tackle medical school.

Thanks, appreciate your help!

 

[DK2014]

What school is this? Oregon?

 

[zzxxzz]

Why do you think it's bad? It's accepting responsibility -- the OP learned how to address the situation and fixed it.

There are two types of mistakes. There are mistakes people make due to inexperience, naivete, an error in foresight, etc. These are mistakes you would expect an average person to make once or twice in his/her life. Then there are mistakes due to carelessness, stupidity, etc. These are mistakes you would not expect an average person - let alone a future physician - to make.

"I got a C+ because I forgot to do the last page of the exam" can be interpreted as "I got a C+ because I was careless, didn't follow instructions, and approached a major trial in my academic career (a final exam) with a cavalier attitude."

Think of it this way. Lots of people get speeding tickets, because of unposted changes in the limit, because they were keeping up with traffic, because of speed cameras that haven't been calibrated in 3 years, or because they were driving safely and going 3 mph over but ran into a cop having a bad day. Not many people get tickets because they parked in a marked handicap parking spot. I wouldn't question the overall judgement of someone who got a speeding ticket, but parking in a handicap spot? See what I mean?

Not checking the last page of a test suggests pervasive carelessness and immaturity. This isn't a true learning experience, because this is something a college student should have known for years. You don't say "I learned not to park in a spot that clearly says 'no parking' and have grown from that experience."

I'm not trying to insult the OP or saying he actually is careless or immature, but this is a medical school application, and to a MD admission committee looking at secondaries for a reason not to eliminate someone with a 27 on the MCAT...well...

 

[Spinach Dip]

What school is this? Oregon?

Its not OHSU.

Unless they've changed their secondary since last year.

 

[kmp0410]

I had this prompt on multiple secondaries last year. Don't remember specifically, but atleast a few state schools in FL have this. Kind of awkward. Do I explain every one? Or do I just kind of generally say, "My study habits weren't the best, I didn't comprehend the material fully, I improved upon this by..."

 

[darklabel]

What school is this?

Remind me to not apply to them.

What school is this? Oregon?

I had this prompt on multiple secondaries last year. Don't remember specifically, but atleast a few state schools in FL have this. Kind of awkward. Do I explain every one? Or do I just kind of generally say, "My study habits weren't the best, I didn't comprehend the material fully, I improved upon this by..."

USF, I don't think any of the other secondaries in FL had this question.

 

[mrh125]

USF, I don't think any of the other secondaries in FL had this question.

correct it's USF

This is the second time you've asked whether you could NOT answer the question asked by a school.

Think about that.

I'm not saying this to be mean, but to encourage you to reevaluate the way you're interacting with this process. If you think your response is too damning, Goro's advice is reasonable. It is UNreasonable, however, to expect that you're going to pick and choose which rules of the game you play by -- thousands of other applicants are playing by all of them. Do you really want to stand out as the person who can't follow requests, won't self reflect, or who thinks he's more special than his peers?

I can think of multiple ways in which this prompt could be used. I do not think honest answers are necessarily bad, even if they seem silly. If you missed a page of an exam, however, the lesson you learned isn't going to be better study habits--that's not truthful. I do not believe my Alma mater asks this question, but if they did, I suspect that in addition to picking up genuine understandable reasons for poor performance (illness, death, etc.), they would be looking for evidence of insight, capacity for self reflection and admission of errors, and interest in relevant self improvement . . . qualities more valuable in a physician than tip top mastery of every premed course.

If you decide to submit this secondary, I would strongly consider preemptively addresing why/how this will not be an issue when you encounter material in medical school that raises similar problems for you.

I appreciate your sentiments and thanks for the feedback. It's not that I'm trying to play loose and fast with the rules. Just realize, there is a lot in my application I have to be extremely meta-cognizant about to avoid divulging very risky including about my mental health and other issues that would not be interpreted well. That's what's behind me trying to avoid answering questions such as this. I want to minimize the risks to myself and avoid contradicting what I'm trying to convey on the application. I'm trying to make them honest and reflective, but there's a lot of stuff I have to leave out. Please don't interpret as entitlement and bull**** excuses, although I do have a bit of frustration about this process which may come across. I'm going to keep working to try and explain these better and repost my responses. I would really appreciate all the feedback again.