A shift from ACEP to AAEM

[kcm1984]

Exciting news. In light of ACEP selling out to CMGs (old news) and now appointing a non-board certified physician as its new president, our residency program is making some changes. Instead of sending our seniors to ACEP annual meeting, we will now be going to AAEM. I'm new in the field but I recognize the inherent problems with CMGs and their affiliation with ACEP. I was glad our program is acknowledging this and hope others will do the same.

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[TooMuchResearch]

Exciting news. In light of ACEP selling out to CMGs (old news) and now appointing a non-board certified physician as its new president, our residency program is making some changes. Instead of sending our seniors to ACEP annual meeting, we will now be going to AAEM. I'm new in the field but I recognize the inherent problems with CMGs and their affiliation with ACEP. I was glad our program is acknowledging this and hope others will do the same.

Wait, ACEP president isn't BC EM? What the fudge? Eh, I'm not a member anyway.

 

[theSmurfette]

Wait, ACEP president isn't BC EM? What the fudge? Eh, I'm not a member anyway.

According to this, he’s not board certified in anything. He’s a surgeon by training and did re-certify in surgery once but never did again because he wasn’t doing surgery anymore. He’s not grandfathered BC EM because he didn’t have the hours when that ended.

Meet ACEP President-Elect Dr. John Rogers - Page 3 of 6 - ACEP Now


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[emergentmd]

I am not an ACEP member and will never come back. What a farce.

 

[Money Moniker]

According to this, he’s not board certified in anything. He’s a surgeon by training and did re-certify in surgery once but never did again because he wasn’t doing surgery anymore. He’s not grandfathered BC EM because he didn’t have the hours when that ended.

Meet ACEP President-Elect Dr. John Rogers - Page 3 of 6 - ACEP Now

So...does he like have any amazing redeeming qualities that would explain why he was chosen to lead this organization? Is he a great chef or something, or did the CMGs just go "hey, let's find the least employable and most desperate guy out there and install him as our puppet?"

 

[Hercules]

Read the full article. There was a small subset of EM guys who were too old to have residency training as an option yet too young to have the practice track hours necessary to become boarded during that transition. I knew one of these guys where I trained. It was an unfortunate situation but had to be done so the specialty could move forward towards residency training being the only pass to board certification. Dr. Rogers is in that subset, so I wouldn’t necessarily hold that against him.


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[MechEDoc]

While I do not hold it against him, does it reflect well of a specialty that needs to demonstrate the value of it's certification on an ongoing basis? The margins of the field are perpetually being chipped away at by FM/IM (think smaller ERs) and the center by PAs/NPs. The midlevel group are frequently deployed as cheap doctor substitutes (e.g. patients are seen by mid-level and the charts are cosigned by physician that is never seen the patient nor meaningfully involved in the oversight of the mid-level) and not as assistants to a physician. This model of deploying multiple low-priced providers is being seen throughout emergency departments of all sizes. While this is bad for patients (misdiagnosis and over testing) it is wonderful for corporate medicine. Higher profits are realized, there is a small uptick in liability, but most of the real risk is transferred to the individual physicians who are forced by their terms of employment independent contracting to cosign the charts of unknown and frequently under trained mid-levels. Thanks ACEP for your wonderful defense of the profession!

Let's rename them American Corporate Emergency Providers... After the ACEP fluff piece written by senior CMG executive regarding Summa, I can not wait for they day they they merge General Motors style with Envision + USACS + TH + Vituity.

 

[GeneralVeers]

I have joined AAEM for the first time in about 5 years. #ACEPneveragain.

I will see you all in San Diego next week!

 

[Psai]

It's really amazing that you guys recognized that your specialty group no longer works for you and switched over to a new one in such a short time. I love seeing docs standing up to the corporatization of medicine, as inevitable as it may seem.

 

[GeneralVeers]

I will leave AAEM though as soon as I see "USACS is a Platinum supporter" anywhere on their material.

 

[Money Moniker]

Read the full article. There was a small subset of EM guys who were too old to have residency training as an option yet too young to have the practice track hours necessary to become boarded during that transition. I knew one of these guys where I trained. It was an unfortunate situation but had to be done so the specialty could move forward towards residency training being the only pass to board certification. Dr. Rogers is in that subset, so I wouldn’t necessarily hold that against him.

I know that. The question remains: why pick a guy who's not a board certified EM doc to be president of ACEP when there are 35,000+ board certified physicians out there to potentially choose from? Obviously there must be something about this guy that led to him being selected despite the fact that his lack of board certification, personally blameless though he may be, must surely be viewed as a weakness in the context of his job as a "representative" of EM docs.

Is he a leading light in the field? Does he have members of Congress in his pocket? Is he a billionaire who promised to donate money on behalf of ACEP if selected? Did no one else want the job? Or did the CMGs just think he'd be good puppet for lack of better options by not being BC in anything?

 

[MechEDoc]

I know that. The question remains: why pick a guy who's not a board certified EM doc to be president of ACEP when there are 35,000+ board certified physicians out there to potentially choose from? Obviously there must be something about this guy that led to him being selected despite the fact that his lack of board certification, personally blameless though he may be, must surely be viewed as a weakness in the context of his job as a "representative" of EM docs.

Is he a leading light in the field? Does he have members of Congress in his pocket? Is he a billionaire who promised to donate money on behalf of ACEP if selected? Did no one else want the job? Or did the CMGs just think he'd be good puppet for lack of better options by not being BC in anything?

No idea why he was picked. As a disinterested, uninterested, and uninvolved member of ACEP, it beats me how he got elected. However it does look poor. I look forward to my membership expiring and switching to AAEM.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

I'm also donating whatever ACEP would have cost me to AAEM's PAC or whatever other box was on that renewal form. All from my CME pool, of course.

 

[arandazzo88]

Interesting. Curious to see what dynamic this will have.

 

[Old_Mil]

Wait, ACEP president isn't BC EM? What the fudge? Eh, I'm not a member anyway.

No, he's not. From the article by Andy Mayer, MD FAAEM, editor of Common Sense:

"What would you, as a board-certified emergency physician, think if you learned that ACEP has chosen a general surgeon as their president-elect? You might think that must be some sort of mistake or tasteless joke. What message does this send to tens of thousands of board certified emergency physicians? I guess this resurrects the question of just who is an emergency physician. Does any physician who works in an emergency department automatically become one? I know what I think about that, but decided to see what ACEP thinks. Their website provides the answer:

'Definition of an Emergency Physician
Reaffirmed April 2017
Originally approved June 2011

An emergency physician is defined as a physician who is certified (or eligible to be certified by the American Board of Emergency Medicine (ABEM) or the American Osteopathic Board of Emergency medicine (AOBEM) or an equivalent international certifying body recognized by ABEM or AOBEM in Emergency Medicine or Pediatric Emergency Medicine, or who is eligible for active membership in the American College of Emergency Physicians.'

Please read that definition carefully, with emphasis on the end of the sentence. A quick reading sounds good and makes you think, 'Well, okay.' However, it is the "...or who is eligible for active membership in the American College of Emergency Physicians' that is the important part to me. Again looking at ACEP's website, the criteria for membership include "...or eligible for active or international membership in the College at any time prior to the close of business December 31, 1999." Why was this last phrase added and who wrote it? I am not sure, but the candidate mateiral Dr. John Rogers submitted for the recent election might shed some light. In his list of accomplishment, number six is:

'Helped to write ACEP's current definition of an emergency physician.'

Discovering that a physician who is not and never has been eligible for the ABEM or AOBEM exams helped ACEP define emergency physician gives me pause. I do not discount the years of service which Dr. John Rogers provided to ACEP. He may even be the finest clinician in the world, but does that matter? The president-elect of ACEP, who is listed as a fellow (FACEP) and who will be to many the face of emergency medicine in 2019, is not a board-certified specialist in emergency medicine. In my opinion, he is not an emergency physician. He is a surgeon who has worked in emergency departments for a long time. I do not think a doctor who does something for a long time transforms into something he is not. [My aside, would the ACR ever elect one of us president just because we do a lot of ultrasounds and read a lot of xrays?] However, according to the ACEP definition of what an emergency physician is, Dr. John Rogers, FACEP is one. What do you think?

Does emergency medicine want to tell the house of medicine it is not a real specialty? Can just any surgeon or internist safely step into your shoes? The message ACEP sends to the emergency medicine community and medicine in general with this election is something I hope each and every one of you will carefully consider."

...I will go further. Resign your ACEP membership, join AAEM, and make a positive difference in your specialty.

 

[theSmurfette]

Just got this in my email. The non-BCEM ACEP President-elect resigned his position. He said that he caused divisiveness and that it would cause problems for the speciality.

Here’s the text of the email if you don’t get them anymore.

Late yesterday afternoon, just before the ACEP Board was to convene for their meeting, I received some startling news.

ACEP President-elect, John Rogers, MD, FACEP, resigned his position.

In his resignation, Dr. Rogers, who was elected to be ACEP's next President by the Council at its 2017 meeting, voiced his desire to unify the specialty. He said he didn't want his lack of emergency medicine board certification to be a distraction to the work of the College.

Dr. Rogers sent a heartfelt and personal note to the Board Wednesday morning -

"This is a time when the residents in the house of emergency medicine should be coming together, and respecting each other as allies in a common cause. Unfortunately, it appears I have become a focal point for divisiveness. Not by my words or actions, but by one indisputable fact that neither I nor anyone else can change.

"It became clear that this would not only be a continuous cloud over my term as President, a distraction to the Board and College, but a barrier to unity within our emergency medicine community. I know in my heart this is the right direction and decision."

Dr. Rogers, who has been practicing emergency medicine for over 30 years, brought a great deal of experience and knowledge, especially on rural emergency medicine issues to ACEP during his seven years as a member of the ACEP Board of Directors. Dr. Rogers also served the College as Secretary/Treasurer, Vice President, Chairman of the Board as well as Chair of EMF and president of the Georgia chapter.

While his leadership as President could have advanced the specialty a great deal, we respect his decision and are humbled that he selflessly chose emergency medicine over his personal role - a hallmark of the kind of leader that he is.

The board will be voting Thursday to choose an interim President-Elect in accordance with the College Bylaws. Then, the Council will need to ratify that decision or elect a new President at their meeting in October.

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[deleted859535]

Just got this in my email. The non-BCEM ACEP President-elect resigned his position. He said that he caused divisiveness and that it would cause problems for the speciality.

Here’s the text of the email if you don’t get them anymore.





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The usual ACEP criticism aside (especially from an SDG guy like me), he did the right thing. Wonder if he even wanted to continue to serve that role or if it was a convenient "out."

 

[DO3]

Just got this in my email. The non-BCEM ACEP President-elect resigned his position. He said that he caused divisiveness and that it would cause problems for the speciality.

Here’s the text of the email if you don’t get them anymore.





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#MEMGA “Make Emergency Medicine Great Again”

Time to take the specialty back from the CMGs and the EM establishment that elected a non-EM boarded physician to be the ACEP president in the first place.

 

[southerndoc]

Rogers is a great guy. Very active in the Georgia chapter. I have a lot of respect for him. ACEP definitely lost a great future President that would've served emergency physicians well.

 

[EsTxDr]

I'm still a member of ACEP as a leftover from residency, etc. I doubt I'll renew as they just seem to be moving further and further from representing me. I found the president caving to a vocal minority in the border issues as well as gun rights issues to be hasty and without thought for the entirety of the membership. I didn't have a problem with Rogers but think hes a class act and handled the situation well. Will be interesting to see who/how we replace him.

 

[southerndoc]

I'm still a member of ACEP as a leftover from residency, etc. I doubt I'll renew as they just seem to be moving further and further from representing me. I found the president caving to a vocal minority in the border issues as well as gun rights issues to be hasty and without thought for the entirety of the membership. I didn't have a problem with Rogers but think hes a class act and handled the situation well. Will be interesting to see who/how we replace him.

Because Rogers cares more for emergency medicine than for himself. Seriously, he's one of the reasons Georgia has tort reform.

 

[Hamhock]

"but by one indisputable fact that neither I nor anyone else can change."

I do not know Dr. Rogers and I gave up on ACEP a long time ago.

I am quite impressed that he resigned, ironically showing somehow, that he places EM above personal ambition and has at least one quality that would make his a great ACEP president.

That said, the clause quoted from his email above shows a continued confusion regarding the importance of BC in EM and for our "professional organizations".

For -- although it may be difficult and not fit in well with his life or career at this time -- there is indeed a way to change that "indisputable fact" he mentions. He could complete an EM residency and become board certified.

I, of course, understand why he is not becoming board-certified and not going to back to do a residency (who, in his position and right mind, would?). But that does not change the now fundamental (to EM) fact that there is a way for Dr. Rodgers, NP Gerry (insert alphabet soup here), family-medicine-physician Jane (looking for a backdoor into EM), and all the rest to become EM doctors. EM residency is available to all appropriately trained practioners who qualify.

It is difficult. It is not for everyone. It often requires more sacrifice for some candidates than others (in this case a tremendous sacrifice for Dr. Rogers)...but that is part of what gives BCEM such power. It is of tremendous importance to EM and must be a requirement to lead ACEP or AAEM. The clause I quoted above shows Dr. Rogers is not fully on-board with this fundamental aspect of modern EM. This confusion, in addition to his lack of BCEM status, should have disqualified him, in my opinion, as a president of ACEP a priori.

HH

 

[alpinism]

Agree with the above.

Also if you read his profile in ACEP Now he graduated from med school in 1978 when there were already over a dozen EM residencies.

Its not like he didn't have an opportunity to match into an EM residency he just chose general surgery instead.

 

[alphaholic06]

QTF

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[deleted109597]

Agree with the above.

Also if you read his profile in ACEP Now he graduated from med school in 1978 when there were already over a dozen EM residencies.

Its not like he didn't have an opportunity to match into an EM residency he just chose general surgery instead.

It was a different landscape then, but he had the opportunity, yes. However, he also could have done the practice tract as well, as it wasn't removed until later either.

The board unanimously asked him not to resign. He did because he's worried about the optics some of you are talking about. It's not as if he came out of the blue and became president, he's been doing this for over 30 years. I'm sure he's heartbroken, but he's been getting attacked from all sides and is doing to promote the need for ABEM certified EPs.

 

[EctopicFetus]

It was a different landscape then, but he had the opportunity, yes. However, he also could have done the practice tract as well, as it wasn't removed until later either.

The board unanimously asked him not to resign. He did because he's worried about the optics some of you are talking about. It's not as if he came out of the blue and became president, he's been doing this for over 30 years. I'm sure he's heartbroken, but he's been getting attacked from all sides and is doing to promote the need for ABEM certified EPs.

What’s crazy is that he makes no mention of what changed. The AAEM article was published in January? Seems very odd to me.

The question isnt his qualifications or what kind of guy he is. Instead it is does he meet the minimum qualifications and is this someone who is a role model. Unlike athletes presidents of these organizations should be that.

Sadly for him IMO and others he isnt qualified being non BCEM. Sure the ACEP guidelines make no mention of this. The organization is confused. Thats the reality.

On a serious note can anyone explain to me what new “heat” was out there for him to resign?