A Stressful Career?

[kitty613]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I know the veterinary field can be very stressful, and I'm wondering what you're thoughts on the issue are. So, here's my thoughts and musings..😛

Veterinarians: I've heard that veternarians don't spend as much time with animals as people think. There is lots of paperwork, phone calls, etc. By the time one appointment is over, the veterinarian is onto the next. Veternarians are mainly responsible for the health of their patients. And how does it feel when you failed a patient (or feel like you did?)Jeez. 😱I think the job of the veterinarian may be more emotionally draining. I don't know for sure though.

Vet Techs: From what I heard, vet techs do more hands on work (the grunt work) and deal more directly with the animals and owners. Vet techs have to deal with being told what to do(thier position of course, but sometimes vets take their anger out on them), or dealing with angry owners.😡 Maybe some vet techs are happy to be in their positions for what it is. I've always heard that it is a labor of love, because you certaintly don't get paid well for it!!

I guess some people are more well-suited for vet tech work, or being a veterinarian. I know I rambled a bit. What are your thoughts on the topic? Sorry to be such a Grim Reaper!!

 

[chickenlittle]

I think both positions can be stressful, but working as a veterinarian is definitely far more stressful than my pre-veterinary tech experience. I've been out of veterinary school for about five years, and still find myself wondering whether it's the right career for me! The stress definitelu gets to me at times.

On average, I get about 10-15 minutes to spend with each appointment... which is plenty of time for an adult dog needing vaccine boosters, but really not nearly enough time for new puppy visits or very sick patients. There's definitely a huge sense of time urgency... there are days, for example, that I don't even have time to use the restroom because I'm running from room to room so quickly. My lunch breaks vary from up to an hour on slow days to sometimes just scarfing down a sandwich while monitoring an anesthetized patient while a tech performs a dental cleaning. And, as you mentioned, there's a lot of stress that comes from the pressure we put on ourselves to handle difficult cases. I spend a lot of my time away from work researching tough cases, reviewing how I handled specific cases, beating myself up over perceived "failures," etc. (For example, although I only spend 40-50 hrs/wk at work, I spend at least 10-15 hrs/wk reading veterinary journals and researching cases from home.)

Yes, my techs do have to work... but they are there as my assistants, and I would not say that they work harder than I do. There may be times that they're drawing blood or trimming nails while I write up a record or research a case, but those are two different types of tasks - neither is really "easier." And, most of the time, I'm right in there helping with blood draws, catheter placement, etc as needed. I protect them from the difficult clients, make sure that they get a lunch break, etc. We all may work equally hard during work hours, but the ultimate responsibility for the patient is mine and therefore I'd say that my day as a vet is much more stressful than my days as a tech. Additionally, the techs don't have to do all of the outside work that I do as a veterinarian.

There are definite pluses to being a veterinarian - the occasional friendly (non-aggressive) patient, the occasional grateful client, and that one or two cases a week where you truly make a difference in a pet's life. For the most part, though, my days involve a lot of stress with very little reward - clients are constantly expecting you to work FASTER FASTER and provide them with the best level of service while spending as little as possible. When those clients get angry (like the lady yesterday whose dog has had skin problems for months but literally only had $60 to spend and couldn't see why I couldn't fix the problem for that amount), I have to step in and protect the mental health of my techs by dealing with the angry clients myself. I'm sure it's just our tendency to remember the bad experiences instead of the good experiences, but I definitely feel that while most of our clients are pretty unremarkable in terms of how they treat me and my staff, it is more common to see an exceptionally angry client than an exceptionally grateful client. It's hard to feel like you're pouring your life into a profession where your clients resent you instead of appreciating you.

So... yeah. Lots to think about... but if you're concerned about stress levels, neither vets nor vet techs have it easy!!

 

[kitty613]

I think both positions can be stressful, but working as a veterinarian is definitely far more stressful than my pre-veterinary tech experience. I've been out of veterinary school for about five years, and still find myself wondering whether it's the right career for me! The stress definitelu gets to me at times.

Wow. Thank you so much for your very informative response. 🙂
As a veterinarian, do you sometimes wish that you could have less responsilbility, like when you used to be a vet tech? I know it is very difficult to compare the two positions because they're like apples and oranges, but I'm just thinking strictly in terms of the responsibility (and accompanying stress) of the two positions.

 

[Pelagia]

For the most part, though, my days involve a lot of stress with very little reward - clients are constantly expecting you to work FASTER FASTER and provide them with the best level of service while spending as little as possible. When those clients get angry (like the lady yesterday whose dog has had skin problems for months but literally only had $60 to spend and couldn't see why I couldn't fix the problem for that amount), I have to step in and protect the mental health of my techs by dealing with the angry clients myself.

Wow, that is very generous of you! I'd say it's the opposite way at our clinic....the techs shield the doctors from the angry patients so the doctors can focus on the medicine more instead of all of the drama surrounding the case! Dealing with angry clients certainly makes my job stressful.

Oh, and the scarfing down the sandwich thing...funny you should mention that, because the vet and I were both doing that the other day as we prepared our patient for the dental cleaning. Lunch time is often short or non-existent for both the techs and the doctors. The team at my hospital works very closely, so I'd say that the vets and techs experience a lot of the same stressors, too.

 

[HelloNello]

.

 

[anjabryn]

Thanks for everyones input. Very interesting information.

 

[chickenlittle]

As a veterinarian, do you sometimes wish that you could have less responsilbility, like when you used to be a vet tech? I know it is very difficult to compare the two positions because they're like apples and oranges, but I'm just thinking strictly in terms of the responsibility (and accompanying stress) of the two positions.

There are MANY days that I yearn for a job with less responsibility.... on a regular basis, I joke that I'd rather go back to working retail or some other mindless job!! I think I do enjoy being a vet overall and will probably stick with it, but I really wish I'd had a more realistic view of what the profession entailed before going into it. I'd worked in several different clinics before vet school, but they were all 1-2 doctor practices where I mainly worked with the owner... and the owners were all older men who were kind of 'coasting' until selling their already-paid-off practices. I wish I'd had more opportunities to work with associate vets and really pick their brains about work opportunities, work conditions, etc.... because I think I had some rather unrealistic expectations of what my professional life would be like.

When I met my husband, I was already a vet and he was considering applying to vet school. I talked him out of it 😳

 

[kitty613]

There are MANY days that I yearn for a job with less responsibility.... on a regular basis, I joke that I'd rather go back to working retail or some other mindless job!! I think I do enjoy being a vet overall and will probably stick with it, but I really wish I'd had a more realistic view of what the profession entailed before going into it. 😳

I've been wanting to pick a veterinarian's brain for awhile on this issue but I haven't had the chance to till now. Thank you for being so honest...it's very refreshing. 🙂The reality is that the veterinary field is stressful, no matter which position you're in, albeit an actual veterinarian or vet tech. To tell you the truth, I have been very wishy-washy about continuing on the path of pre-vet or going into a vet tech program. I worry about my emotional well being if I were a full-fledged vet. I am a very emotional person that overanalyzes everything and responsilbility does overwhelm me; not that being a vet tech is all fun and roses either.This is a second career for me. I used to be a teacher, but I was so burned out with that (stress being a huge factor) that I decided to switch careers and go into the veterinary field.

Decisions...decisions...🙁

 

[Packen]

This is a second career for me. I used to be a teacher, but I was so burned out with that (stress being a huge factor) that I decided to switch careers and go into the veterinary field.

Decisions...decisions...🙁

I had to laugh at that comment - my mom and mother in law are both teachers and they have horror stories about their "parents" - and then I tell them the horror stories about the "parents" we dealt with - they are no different. An angry mother of a human is just as stressing as the angry mother of a furry four-legger.

I have worked as an assistant (and non-licensed tech) for about 8-9 yrs. I have a pretty broad experience: small, mixed (rural area), equine teaching hospital, surgical referral practice, emergency. I think the level of stress of the job is directly correlated to how the practice is run. The management of a clinic plays a HUGE role in the type of worker that works there and how things are run. I worked for a vet who held his staff to very high standards and set up protocols so that things ran smoothly. It was great to work there because even on the most stressful days, you left feeling a sense of accomplishment. Ultimately what I am trying to say (not so well it seems) is that the environment of the hospital will greatly influence how stressed the job makes you.

Do you currently work at an animal hospital? That is probably the best way to find out where you want to go.

 

[Pelagia]

The reality is that the veterinary field is stressful, no matter which position you're in, albeit an actual veterinarian or vet tech. To tell you the truth, I have been very wishy-washy about continuing on the path of pre-vet or going into a vet tech program. I worry about my emotional well being if I were a full-fledged vet. I am a very emotional person that overanalyzes everything and responsilbility does overwhelm me; not that being a vet tech is all fun and roses either.This is a second career for me. I used to be a teacher, but I was so burned out with that (stress being a huge factor) that I decided to switch careers and go into the veterinary field.

I think it's great that you're thinking very carefully about your career. If you want to be a tech, but still wish to work with interesting medical cases, and get paid better, too, you could always specialize. Another plus of being a tech is that you're the one doing most of the hands-on work with the animals. It's one of my favorite parts of my job. Plus, if like you said, you get overwhelmed with responsibility, perhaps a tech position is best for you since you will have the veterinarian's supervision and guidance. You could always try being a tech for a year, and then at the end of that assess if being a tech is really right for you, or if you still want to be a doctor. If you find yourself feeling unchallenged or bored, craving more knowledge and responsibility, then perhaps vet school is right for you after all. Ask yourself: Do you want to know the details behind the disease process? Do you want to do surgeries? Do you want to make decisions about an animal's medical care? Are you willing to go to school for at least another 4 years, and take out loans? Are you still passionate about veterinary medicine after spending a year in field as a tech? If so, then go to vet school! 🙂

Good luck with whatever you choose. I hope you make a decision that you will be happy with. 🙂

 

[libster06]

I have said before on a few of the other posts very similar to this that seem to be flooding the board right now, that I really enjoyed being a tech, and that yes it's stressful but I find it very rewarding at the end of the day. However, I have to honestly say that ironically, its not the future job of a veterinarian OR the job of being a vet tech that has "burned me out"- it's VET SCHOOL. I can't tell you how much I have questioned my passion and want of this profession over the last 7 months. This has been the single MOST stressful period of my life, and 4 years (or really more like 2.5) of ongoing threat-level-midnight anxiety often doesn't seem sustainable. Its no question that I still want what I set out to do, and that is be a practicing veterinarian, but the road to get there is so much rockier than I ever imagined. For some people it's not so bad, but for me, it's almost discouraging to feel this way after I've worked so hard to get to a place I absolutely hate... and I absolutely hate vet school :/

 

[katryn]

I have said before on a few of the other posts very similar to this that seem to be flooding the board right now, that I really enjoyed being a tech, and that yes it's stressful but I find it very rewarding at the end of the day. However, I have to honestly say that ironically, its not the future job of a veterinarian OR the job of being a vet tech that has "burned me out"- it's VET SCHOOL. I can't tell you how much I have questioned my passion and want of this profession over the last 7 months. This has been the single MOST stressful period of my life, and 4 years (or really more like 2.5) of ongoing threat-level-midnight anxiety often doesn't seem sustainable. Its no question that I still want what I set out to do, and that is be a practicing veterinarian, but the road to get there is so much rockier than I ever imagined. For some people it's not so bad, but for me, it's almost discouraging to feel this way after I've worked so hard to get to a place I absolutely hate... and I absolutely hate vet school :/

*hugs* Does your school have an attached vet social worker? (the main office could probably tell you.) The gal at UT is totally awesome and wonderful about helping us with stress management and diffusing panic attacks.

 

[awaring1]

This thread makes me nervous... Especially since the ONLY people who have told me NOT to be a vet are vets themselves! Is there honestly no job satisfaction with veterinary medicine? I have done unpaid internships before with incredibly long/demanding hours but I still loved every minute of it because I loved what I was doing. I have a few questions for chickenlittle or current vet students...

-What do you think mainly killed your passion?
-If you could do it all over again, what would you do differently?
- Are there many vets left who truly love what they do?
- Did you come into the field expecting the long hours and low pay?
- What would you change about your profession given the chance?
-Is there a light at the end of the tunnel..? 🙁

 

[bee83]

To tell you the truth, I have been very wishy-washy about continuing on the path of pre-vet or going into a vet tech program.

You are not alone in this. I question myself every single day about whether or not I really and truly want to be a veterinarian. I like the idea of being a veterinarian, but I just can't seem to decide for sure if it is a good path for me to take. Right now it is my curiosity to see if I can get accepted that is motivating me to keep doing well in classes and volunteering and whatnot. But I still have a lot of thinking to do about it before I put any deposits down (if and when I get accepted anywhere).
Kitty613, would you go back to teaching if you decide against the vet field? Or is there some other field/job/career that you would really be interested in pursuing?

 

[awaring1]

Right now it is my curiosity to see if I can get accepted that is motivating me to keep doing well in classes and volunteering and whatnot.

This kind of makes me sad because if you do get accepted there was probably someone who 100% wanted to be a vet since they were five who could of had that spot. I don't mean at all to say that you don't deserve the spot but in a process so competitive it is kind of strange to see someone who is applying out of "curiosity." (I do not mean any of this in a mean or negative way)

 

[LetItSnow]

This kind of makes me sad because if you do get accepted there was probably someone who 100% wanted to be a vet since they were five who could of had that spot. I don't mean at all to say that you don't deserve the spot but in a process so competitive it is kind of strange to see someone who is applying out of "curiosity." (I do not mean any of this in a mean or negative way)

Don't let it get you down: The seat won't go empty either way. If she gets in and accepts, great! If she gets in and doesn't accept, they'll simply hand the seat to someone else who met the criteria but got wait-listed.

 

[bee83]

This kind of makes me sad because if you do get accepted there was probably someone who 100% wanted to be a vet since they were five who could of had that spot. I don't mean at all to say that you don't deserve the spot but in a process so competitive it is kind of strange to see someone who is applying out of "curiosity." (I do not mean any of this in a mean or negative way)

I totally understand, and that's why I've spent a lot of time musing over thoughts of "why me? why should I go to vet school and become a vet when I know there are thousands of others who would die to get to do so? What is it about me that makes me think that I should get to do this over anyone else?" I am curious to see if I can get into vet school, but there's more to it than that. It's a decision I'm taking very seriously.

 

[awaring1]

I totally understand, and that's why I've spent a lot of time musing over thoughts of "why me? why should I go to vet school and become a vet when I know there are thousands of others who would die to get to do so? What is it about me that makes me think that I should get to do this over anyone else?" I am curious to see if I can get into vet school, but there's more to it than that. It's a decision I'm taking very seriously.

I have no doubt that you are taking it seriously. The whole process is absolute insanity. I have never doubted myself so much, been so proud of myself or wanted to wanted to laugh and cry with a mental breakdown as I have these past few months. The only comfort to rejection letters is knowing that the person who took my place was just as passionate as I am and worked really hard themselves.

Is is possible that the stress is just bringing you down, or do you think it is the actual field? Whatever it is, I hope you figure out what makes you happy and you are able to do it.

 

[nuevaburra]

Well, I have no experience being either a vet or a vet tech, but I'm a non-trad and from my few years of experience in another career (academic research) and years of other jobs (factory work, retail, farm work, supermarket, etc.) I think that ALL jobs have their stresses. It depends on your personality which you will find rewarding enough to justify that.

For example, I really like being outside and working with my hands, so I liked factory work better than retail, and farm work better than factory work. My current job is very intellectually rewarding, but I am unhappy in part because I spend almost all day sitting in front of a computer. A job as either a vet tech or a veterinarian would both allow more time working with my hands, which I like. But I think the part of the vet job that I would like would be the responsibility and independence, whereas if I didn't like making the decisions and being in charge I would like being a tech more.

So, the stress will really depend whether your personality fits the job- do you like being the one in charge and making decisions? The one who has to figure out what is going on? Or do you like having a defined job and having someone else shoulder the burden of responsibility?

 

[sumstorm]

-What do you think mainly killed your passion?
-If you could do it all over again, what would you do differently?
- Are there many vets left who truly love what they do?
- Did you come into the field expecting the long hours and low pay?
- What would you change about your profession given the chance?
-Is there a light at the end of the tunnel..? 🙁

I'm not a vet, but I know quite a few...and one thing I can say is that there are individuals who are happy with their vet careers....some that are only out a few years, some who have a decade under their belts, and some are past retirement, but can't seem to stay away from the work they love.

I also know some folks that really do hate the profession. Some are bitterly retiring, some are burned out 7 years in, and some haven't liked it from their first year out.

In my experience some folks will hate any career, some aren't meant for this one, some gripe about the negatives but wouldn't imagine doing anything else, and some are very content in their profession, even when they are exhausted. However, this isn't a field that needs recruiters. It isn't like the military; very few vets are going to hide the challenges, and some of those challenges are the multiple hats folks have to wear. You could be the best vet (ie surgeon, urologist, behaviorist, radiologist, etc) there is and still struggle in this career path if you don't have the skills to deal with the business aspects, the management aspects, and the clients.

I have yet to work in a career that didn't require long hours...and for less or about the same as an associate vet. While our pay doesn't compare to human doctors, it isn't minimum wage either, and there are oppurtunities to increase our pay (authoring, participating in clinical studies, learning new skills, streamlining business, etc.)

I don't know if there is a light....but I hope so, because while I like working with clients, and running a business, and the great stuff I am learning, I hate vet school. A lot of students love it.

I also have a differnet perspective. I decided a decade ago that I wasn't willing to deal with all these issues you are thinking about. And I thought I could escape my childhood dreams. It just didn't work for me, I kept coming back. Sometimes it is easier to do what your passion is than to try to figure out a better or more logical option.

 

[chickenlittle]

I'll try to answer... but keep in mind that I'm just one person! Again, as I said, I'm about five years out of school. I'm currently on my 4th job, this one with a corporate veterinary practice... it's been harder for me because I'm geographically limited to a particular small-town area (due to my spouse, who I met after moving to this area for my first job) so I have fewer jobs to choose between than if I were single. The last three clinics I've worked at have all required me to do things I considered unethical or did not feel comfortable with - prescribing meds at owner request without appropriate diagnostics, convenience euthanasias, cosmetic surgeries like tail docking, performing surgery without pain medication, etc. The corporate practice I'm currently working in has its fair share of headaches, but at least I'm allowed to practice quality medicine.

Also, I asked my husband (whose mom was a HS English teacher) and he says that my job is WAAAAY more stressful than hers ever was. Granted, we're only two individiauls so take that for what it's worth!

- What do you think mainly killed your passion?
I think that I had intentions of being able to focus more on the medicine. I LOVED vet school, and honestly wasn't one of those people who found it all of that stressful. I also LOVE educating people, public speaking, etc. So, in a way, I had this vision of being able to use my medical knowledge to educate my clients and treat their pets. Unfortunately, the reality of the area I'm practicing in is that many clients don't want to spend money on their pets and resent me for recommending care. For example, yesterday I had two frustrating clients. Client #1 came in with EXACTLY sixty dollars - our office visit is $35, so that left me $25 to treat her dog. It turns out that her dog has had AWFUL skin problems for several months (honestly one of the worst skin cases I've ever seen) AND has never had any vaccines, heartworm prevention, or other preventive care. So I'm stuck trying to fix this dog for $25, which is completely impossible because I can't even run tests to figure out what I'm dealing with!! (For the record, I ended up dispensing some antihistamines and giving her a prescription for $4 antibiotics at Walmart... it won't fix the problem, which I'm worried could be mange, but at least it'll give the dog some relief.) Client #2 came in with a dog that has had skin allergies for YEARS... also expressed financial limitations, but didn't give a dollar limit. I did my exam, recommended about $90 worth of diagnostics (skin impressions to assess for bacterial/yeast infections, skin scrape to look for mange, and a ringworm culture). She told me she could only afford one test, so I opted for the skin scrape... but didn't find any mites. When I then told her that I could prescribe steroids and antibiotics now that we knew the dog was free of mites, she went off and said we were an awful money-grubbing place for charging $65 for the visit and and then wanting to charge additional money for the meds. Those are only two examples, and I DO have good clients as well as bad, but those visits really start to wear on you. I do a lot less educating/diagnosing and a lot more playing "let's make a deal" with clients. Hate it.


- If you could do it all over again, what would you do differently?
Really not sure. I think it may be different if I practiced in a more financially affluent area, while my husband thinks I need a different career entirely. Still trying to figure out what needs to change.

- Are there many vets left who truly love what they do?
I think there are some, but not as many as I expected. There's a veterinary online forum called VIN, and a lot of vets are members of it. Recent discussions on there have revealed a LOT of career dissatisfaction lately, I think largely due to the economic changes that make practice management a lot more stressful.

- Did you come into the field expecting the long hours and low pay?
Honestly, the pay is much better than I expected. My first job (five years ago) paid $45k, my second job included gradual raises to $100k within 3 years (these annual raises were tied to what I had produced in the previous year - we were a very busy hospital so my production was high), and my 3rd & 4th jobs have matched that salary. My actual in-hospital hours, not including time working from home have averaged about 34 hrs/wk in my first job, 40-45 hrs in the 2nd job, 45 in the 3rd, and 45-50 hrs/wk in my current job. My current job also includes management responsibilities, so that has caused an increase in time invested from home.... as I said, I probably spend about 15 hrs/wk on vet stuff from home. The pay isn't bad, I just can't decide if the stress is worth it. I'd gladly take a pay cut if the profession were less stressful!!

- What would you change about your profession given the chance?
Fewer vet school graduates, because there aren't enough jobs for us all. Owners who are willing to pursue better care... I understand why they can't always afford it, but I can always dream 🙂

-Is there a light at the end of the tunnel..?
Good question!!

I hate to sound all gloom and doom.... there are days that being a vet is really rewarding. For example, here's a great case from this last week: I struck up a conversation with someone about the care that their pet was getting from another vet. It turns out their vet suspected their dog had demodex (a type of mange), but was treating their dog with exactly the WRONG medication for it (steroids). Needless to say, the dog had been getting gradually worse for months. I convinced them to bring her in for a second opinion.... it turned out that she DID have demodex, but also had awful skin and ear infections on top of that. We did all of the necessary testing, sent her home on all of the necessary meds, and her owners were so grateful that we took the time to actually run tests and discuss treatment with her, instead of just throwing pills at her like the other vet did. Totally a feel-good case, because the owner was so grateful and SugarFifiFluffyFidolicious is now getting the care she needs. Hopefully she'll be looking a lot better when I see her back in 2.5 weeks for a recheck!!

 

[awaring1]

Thank you SO SO SO much for responding!
Is it weird that I feel like this is almost like asking a celebrity questions? I feel that true practicing vets rarely come to SDN and when they do it is a real treat. A huge THANK-YOU from all of us! 😀

I do a lot less educating/diagnosing and a lot more playing "let's make a deal" with clients. Hate it.

Would you say that this actually killed your passion, or just made you want to change location/field?

...my second job included gradual raises to $100k within 3 years (these annual raises were tied to what I had produced in the previous year - we were a very busy hospital so my production was high), and my 3rd & 4th jobs have matched that salary.

That's amazing! That seems pretty atypical from what I have seen. Am I wrong?

Fewer vet school graduates, because there aren't enough jobs for us all.

Really? 😱 I did a whole presentation a few years ago about how vet schools need to expand because there is an increasing demand and not enough graduates to fill it. This was heavily weighted on the large animal side of course. Is the SA field saturated?

 

[spicykimchi]

I don't know about right now because I haven't kept up since my horse died, but a couple years ago we didn't have ONE mobile equine vet in my area and this is a big area with lots of horses.

 

[chickenlittle]

Thank you SO SO SO much for responding!
Is it weird that I feel like this is almost like asking a celebrity questions? I feel that true practicing vets rarely come to SDN and when they do it is a real treat. A huge THANK-YOU from all of us!

No problem 🙂 As I said, there's a lot of things that I wish I had given more consideration to before coming a vet... would I have done anything differently? Maybe, maybe not. Still, I just wish I'd had the info. There are a lot of veterinarians on VIN who say that we need to be doing more to paint a realistic picture of veterinary school to all of the veterinary hopefuls out there... so I guess this is just my small contribution to that effort!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenlittle
I do a lot less educating/diagnosing and a lot more playing "let's make a deal" with clients. Hate it.

Would you say that this actually killed your passion, or just made you want to change location/field?

Honestly, I'm not sure... and that's a big part of my struggle right now. I definitely wouldn't want to specialize, because I enjoy the variety of small animal medicine. I'm not sure if a location change would "fix it" or not. The practices I've worked in have ranged from cheapo bottom-feeder clinics to high-dollar rich-folks clinics (all within a 45-minute radius, but there's some diversity in incomes around here) and I've found that even the wealthier clients still have the same reluctance to part with their money for veterinary care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenlittle
...my second job included gradual raises to $100k within 3 years (these annual raises were tied to what I had produced in the previous year - we were a very busy hospital so my production was high), and my 3rd & 4th jobs have matched that salary.

That's amazing! That seems pretty atypical from what I have seen. Am I wrong?

There is a big move towards veterinary clinics paying employees "on production." Basically, the concept is that associate veterinarians should be paid roughly 20-22% of the revenue they generate for the clinic. Because I worked my @$$ off at my second job (we saw a LOT of walk-ins and were often literally RUNNING from one exam room to the next), I was able to bring >$500k/yr into the clinic and therefore was able to negotiate my way up a $100k salary. My boss after that matched my salary because he was hoping I'd buy his practice... but then the economy started to fall apart and he cut my pay by about 30%. I started job hunting, and found myself at the corporate practice... where my salary will stay at $100k for a period of time, then will switch to getting paid a percentage of my production (which may mean a pay cut... we'll see). Anyway, I've basically been really lucky that the second job was so busy that it allowed me to work my way up into this pay range... but that's also where a lot of the stress comes in. If I had stayed at my first job (which I couldn't do because the owner was psycho, but that's a whole 'nother story!), I'd probably be making $60k and be much happier overall 🙂

Really? I did a whole presentation a few years ago about how vet schools need to expand because there is an increasing demand and not enough graduates to fill it. This was heavily weighted on the large animal side of course. Is the SA field saturated?

Supposedly, the AVMA still feels that there's a demand for more vets because they're making efforts to accredit foreign schools and increase the number of US vets. In my state though, for example, there are only about 10 advertised job openings in the entire state and we'll have a whole new crop of graduates from our state's vet school in a few months. I know several vets who are unemployed and/or underemployed right now (only working PT).... not just in my area, but across the country. The jobs are still there if you're willing to relocate, but there aren't many. I'm not sure how different it is for LA medicine, but I recently read this sobering article - http://www.salon.com/life/pinched/2011/01/24/closing_down_vet_clinic/index.html

 

[cowgirla]

Totally a feel-good case, because the owner was so grateful and XXXXX is now getting the care she needs. Hopefully she'll be looking a lot better when I see her back in 2.5 weeks for a recheck!!

Granted, I'm only a vet student, but shouldn't you be concerned about posting identifying information about clients on a public message board? Not just the pets name, but symptoms/diagnoses/medications/financials?

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I do think the SA market is saturated, to be completely honest.

However, equine and food animal are struggling. The problem is so complex I could write pages about it but basically (at least with food animal, where the majority of my knowledge lies) 1) too much debt and too little pay, 2) old-timers are VERY reluctant to take on new grads as associates - so you're basically stuck in the scary position of making your own practice right out of school, 3) the low number of people interested, and 4) more producers have been doing their own veterinary work for years due to the low number of food animal vets, which makes new grads feel even more worthless.

It's a sad state of affairs to be sure in terms of FA med. I'll be totally honest, I was SO close to becoming a beef and dairy ambulatory vet, but decided on pathology for all of the above reasons

I don't know what the solution is. Debt forgiveness for working in FA med is one step in the right direction. And somehow, the older FA vets must be convinced that taking and mentoring new grads is advantageous. Either that, or young FA grads must be better schooled in the mechanics of opening a practice from absolute scratch.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Granted, I'm only a vet student, but shouldn't you be concerned about posting identifying information about clients on a public message board? Not just the pets name, but symptoms/diagnoses/medications/financials?

Yes. Um, whoa dude. You need to remove that.

 

[chickenlittle]

Have no fear, folks - names & details have been changed to protect the innocent. Just trying to convey a sense of the emotions and the actual goings-on.... because I DO think of that dog by name, and I DID get actual dollar limit amounts from other clients. I think it's a lot easier to understand the situation reading a detailed (if somewhat fictionalized) account than just hearing "a pet came in and the owners couldn't afford the tests it needed."

 

[awaring1]

Have no fear, folks - names & details have been changed to protect the innocent. Just trying to convey a sense of the emotions and the actual goings-on.... because I DO think of that dog by name, and I DID get actual dollar limit amounts from other clients. I think it's a lot easier to understand the situation reading a detailed (if somewhat fictionalized) account than just hearing "a pet came in and the owners couldn't afford the tests it needed."

I had a feeling you would not have been that silly. 🙂

 

[kitty613]

Granted, I'm only a vet student, but shouldn't you be concerned about posting identifying information about clients on a public message board? Not just the pets name, but symptoms/diagnoses/medications/financials?

I think Chickenlittle's posts have been so honest and refreshing and I am so grateful for her wealth of information that she's shared with us. I mean,from what it sounds like she is a very busy woman and to take the time out to share her concerns about the profession is very much needed. I don't think she is overstepping any boundaries in talking about clients, symptoms, diagnoses, medications, financials, etc. I think it is pretty confidential and nothing to worry about. This is what vet/pre-vet students need to hear about before entering the profession.

Too many people go into professions(myself included) with rose colored glasses because they don't want to hear about the cons of the profession because they're afraid it will deter them from their ultimate goal. (that and invested time and money are huge considerations as well). I was in that boat and now I'm unemployed and I am in the midst of switching careers at 32 years old.

By the way, this post is by no means directed towards you...I am merely sharing my personal story.

I think this thread is so insightful. Keep the posts coming!

 

[kitty613]

Thank you SO SO SO much for responding!
Is it weird that I feel like this is almost like asking a celebrity questions? I feel that true practicing vets rarely come to SDN and when they do it is a real treat. A huge THANK-YOU from all of us! 😀

I feel the same way! This never happens! What a cool doc...to share her personal story with us mere mortals...🙂

 

[lailanni]

Chickenlittle - did you end up with lots of loans from vet school? How has re-payment been going? I've heard from some recent grads who are having a tough time with that.

I think a LOT of pre-vets don't understand the potentially overwhelming debt vet school can bring.... (What's the average now, somewhere around 120k?)

Edit: http://news.vin.com/VINNews.aspx?articleId=17347 says it's around 133k.

 

[cowgirla]

I think Chickenlittle's posts have been so honest and refreshing and I am so grateful for her wealth of information that she's shared with us. I mean,from what it sounds like she is a very busy woman and to take the time out to share her concerns about the profession is very much needed. I don't think she is overstepping any boundaries in talking about clients, symptoms, diagnoses, medications, financials, etc. I think it is pretty confidential and nothing to worry about. This is what vet/pre-vet students need to hear about before entering the profession.

Legal boundaries, maybe not. But if it had been real information, it definitely would have been pushing some ethical boundaries. There's such a thing as doctor-client confidentiality, and it's just as binding in the veterinary world as it is in the human medical world. I'm not saying it's not good information that many people need to hear, but seeing a patient's name there had me quite worried, more so than the vague stories about financial concerns (that every vet sees every day). We all think this board is completely anonymous, but its amazing how easily some people can be identified, especially when given as much as information as posters here tend to provide (inadvertantly?) about themselves.

 

[kitty613]

Legal boundaries, maybe not. But if it had been real information, it definitely would have been pushing some ethical boundaries. There's such a thing as doctor-client confidentiality, and it's just as binding in the veterinary world as it is in the human medical world. I'm not saying it's not good information that many people need to hear, but seeing a patient's name there had me quite worried, more so than the vague stories about financial concerns (that every vet sees every day). We all think this board is completely anonymous, but its amazing how easily some people can be identified, especially when given as much as information as posters here tend to provide (inadvertantly?) about themselves.

No offense, but if you've read chickenlittle's last post, she already addressed this issue.

 

[cwazy cat lady]

I just wanted to say that I appreciate chickenlittle's contribution. It's rare to get such a good perspective into the profession, especially from a relatively recent grad.

 

[cowgirla]

No offense, if you've read the most recent posts, chickenlittle has already addressed this issue.

That's why I said "If it had been real information"

 

[kitty613]

That's why I said "If it had been real information"

Oh Jeez. I guess you can say that about any of the posts on this forum. Who knows who is telling the truth about anything? We come here in the hopes that sincere people will offer us advice and take our concerns seriously.

 

[chickenlittle]

To decrease everyone's concern, I changed the name in the original post to the more-obviously-invented SugarFifiFluffyFidolicious. Hopefully that will alleviate any confusion 🙂

I was lucky in that I had a LOT of help from family in paying for my school. Between family financial support, a part-time job, and some other sources of income, I was able to avoid taking out nearly as many loans as I would have otherwise had to. Honestly, I can't imagine having to make the student loan payments that most new grad vets are making nowadays. If not for the financial support that I received from my family, I probably would have chosen another profession (ie. a PhD program, where at least I would have received a grad stipend).

 

[kitty613]

To decrease everyone's concern, I changed the name in the original post to the more-obviously-invented SugarFifiFluffyFidolicious. Hopefully that will alleviate any confusion 🙂

I wasn't doubting anything you said. I thought immeditately that Sugar was an alias. I mean, Sugar??? It just struck me as kind of funny...don't know why. 😛

 

[awaring1]

SugarFifiFluffyFidolicious.

Amazing. 😀

 

[cowgirla]

I wasn't doubting anything you said. I thought immeditately that Sugar was an alias. I mean, Sugar??? It just struck me as kind of funny...don't know why. 😛

I know 3 dogs named Sugar, and I had a litte pony named Sugar. So maybe that's why I DIDN'T assume it was an alias 🙂

 

[Pelagia]

I'm going to bump this thread just to say THANK YOU to chickenlittle. You seriously rock. I'm sure I'm speaking for all of us here when I say that your responses are very informative and much appreciated!

It's very helpful to hear about the nitty gritty ugly side of vet med. It is disheartening to hear some of the things (especially about job saturation and the low number of jobs, period....that makes me really, really nervous), but knowledge is always better than delusion.

 

[awaring1]

I know 3 dogs named Sugar, and I had a litte pony named Sugar. So maybe that's why I DIDN'T assume it was an alias 🙂

I rode a Thoroughbred this summer named sugar. She was awesome.
And I also know many dogs named sugar, hence why I did not immediately call shenanigans. It is a very basic name that would be hard to pinpoint.

 

[lailanni]

To decrease everyone's concern, I changed the name in the original post to the more-obviously-invented SugarFifiFluffyFidolicious. Hopefully that will alleviate any confusion 🙂

I was lucky in that I had a LOT of help from family in paying for my school. Between family financial support, a part-time job, and some other sources of income, I was able to avoid taking out nearly as many loans as I would have otherwise had to. Honestly, I can't imagine having to make the student loan payments that most new grad vets are making nowadays. If not for the financial support that I received from my family, I probably would have chosen another profession (ie. a PhD program, where at least I would have received a grad stipend).

I have some help and a job too which makes things a little better. But I've seen some people seriously financially struggle out of vet school. Especially if you're single and don't have a second income to help cushion things a bit.

A lot of the feedback I get from recent grads is that they're still living like a student, the hours are long, the pay isn't good when loans are taken into account (most numbers I've heard are around 60k/year), and the new stress of angry clients and constantly trying to read up = less job satisfaction than they anticipated.

Some of them seem pleased. Of the ones I've talked to, more of them seem stressed. A few have had a heck of a time actually finding a job (SA med).

 

[kitty613]

Chickenlittle. You've gave us so much information already, but I was curious about a couple other things.

1. Do you get to spend a lot of time with animals as a veterinarian?
2. Do you deal mainly with the angry clients in terms of money issues?
3. Are you constantly faced with ethical concerns? Convinence euthansia, etc.
4. Do you constantly second guess your decisions? I'm thinking it is hard to not take your work home with you, whether real paperwork or racing thoughts.
5. What do you do to RELAX!!!!???

It's really no big deal if you would rather not answer these questions. You've contributed enough already!! I'm just still deciding between vet tech and vet.Coming from a teaching career,a vet tech would be a huge pay cut, but I don't know if I would be happy as a veterinarian. I really need to make up my mind soon. As I mentioned before, I'm 32 in the midst of a career change.

 

[kitty613]

I know 3 dogs named Sugar, and I had a litte pony named Sugar. So maybe that's why I DIDN'T assume it was an alias 🙂

Okay, this issue is going around in circles. Let's just leave it at that. (this particular issue, not the thread). Keep the posts coming!🙂

 

[bee83]

I'm just throwing this out there, but perhaps those of us who do worry and stress over our potential futures as veterinarians are less prone to actually being stressed as veterinarians, because we don't see it as this happy, ideal profession. I'd like to think that my perpetual second-guessing and nail-biting is going to be useful to me in some way in the long run.

 

[awaring1]

Okay, this issue is going around in circles. Let's just leave it at that. (this particular issue, not the thread). Keep the posts coming!🙂

SUGAR SUGAR SUGAR AHHHH! RABBLERABBLERABBLE!!

But yes, I would love to hear an answer about how often time is spent with a vet's own animals outside a clinic. I was told this summer by a wife of an equine vet to "never become an equine vet because you would never see your own horses again."

 

[chickenlittle]

Okay, one more reply before bed.... mainly because, as I said, I like educating people and don't feel like I get to do it much these days. Glad to hear that some of you are finding my ramblings helpful 🙂

1.Do you get to spend a lot of time with animals as a veterinarian?
Depends on what you mean by "spend a lot of time with animals." Obviously, I'm around animals all day.... but as far as actually having the time to pet a dog or snuggle with a purring kitten? Not often. My current job expects for me to be in and out of an exam room within 5-7 minutes, which means that I'm doing my exam on the pet WHILE I'm talking to the owner and getting a history. There's really not much time to actually interact with the animals, which (again) is something that surprised me. My jobs prior to vet school had always afforded me at least occasional puppy-cuddling time, but now my techs do that while I'm on to the next exam room.

2.Do you deal mainly with the angry clients in terms of money issues?
At my current job, yes. I've had jobs previously where there was an office manager to handle those things, but right now they are my responsibility.

3.Are you constantly faced with ethical concerns? Convinence euthansia, etc.
Yes and no. I don't really know that I'd call them "ethical concerns" because the decisions aren't mine to make - they're made by my employer. Have I had to do things that I was opposed to? Absolutely. For example, every clinic that I worked in prior to my current one had a policy that we would provide euthanasia for any client willing to pay for it. When I questioned these policies, I was given the impression that I could be fired for refusal and therefore I never pushed it... so, I'm embarassed to admit that I definitely did some euthanasias that others would likely consider "convenience euthanasias." (That's kind of a tough definition, though - for example, if an owner refuses to treat a cat with diabetes, is it better to euthanize or let it suffer without treatment? Some would consider that a "convenience euthanasia" while others may not.) Additionally, my last job required that I perform surgeries without appropriate intra-operative or post-operative pain medications... I hated it, and I felt really awful about it on a regular basis, but I had to get over it because I'm the sole breadwinner in our house. I've had clients that I wanted to report to animal control for blatant neglect/cruelty and employers who told me that I'm not permitted to do so. I've had to dock tails and remove dewclaws. All of those things seemed like such a huge deal in vet school, but then you get out in the real world and have to pay your bills... so you look for the job that requires the fewest ethical violations but honestly I think you always have to be willing to compromise.

4.Do you constantly second guess your decisions? I'm thinking it is hard to not take your work home with you, whether real paperwork or racing thoughts.
ABSOLUTELY. My husband would be the first to tell you that I think about work 24/7. When we sit down to dinner, I tell him about difficult cases that I had that day, wonder if I made the right treatment decisions, spend all night wondering "I wonder how SugarFifiFluffyFidolicious is responding to the meds I sent home?," wake up in the middle of the night thinking of diseases/medications that I want to read up on, etc. I dream about work almost every single night.... The other night, my husband got up from bed to get a drink and I (apparently) sat straight up in bed and told him to "go get the dentals." This isn't healthy and I'm considering seeking professional help with it, but I definitely think about work 24/7 and it seems that many of my fellow vets are the same way. I find it hard to turn it off for more than a few minutes at a time... if it's not the patients and the medical decisions, it's management-related decisions. It's constant.

5.What do you do to RELAX!!!!???
Unfortunately, not much right now!! I like spending time outdoors - running, hiking, etc - but the weather where I am is not very conducive to that right now! Decompressing is easier for me in the summer!

I'm so glad I can help! Your questions are awesome, so I'll gladly try to answer as many as I can. Like I said, though, keep in mind that I'm only one individual and others may have different experiences. Your mileage may vary 🙂

And, unfortunately, I'm definitely become a less-involved pet mommy since becoming a vet. When I come home, I'm often so exhausted that my own dogs only get the bare minimum in terms of attention... it's totally not fair to them. At least my husband is home a lot and spends a good bit of time with them.

 

[spicykimchi]

I feel for you, I really do. At least you're not alone. We're here! 🙂 And at least you get to come here and talk to us. 🙂 If I were you, it would help me talk off some steam/stress. I love comming home after a stressful day, get on a good forum and just talk up a storm. I love it when people want to teach me something and I spend a lot of time writing responses for them! Teaching rocks! Good luck to you and I'm sending good thoughts your way because I want your life to get better. You're a vet--my definition of cool--and very deserving in my mind!