A stupid question

[pakbabydoll]

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Whats the difference between M.D and D.O schools?
Why is it harder to get in to M.D school then DO schools?
Which one is more challenging and why?
Can you go in EM if you go to a DO school?

 

[Animus]

Are you looking for a ban? Or can you really not read the FAQ at the top of the page?

 

[TexasTriathlete]

1. At DO school, you learn about the healing powers of herbs and roots, combined with chanting and yoga.

2. It is harder to get into an MD school because God hates you.

3. DO school is harder because you are stoned all the time.

4. From DO school, you can take electricity and magnetism courses at any number of online programs.

 

[desijigga]

TexasTriathlete.... LOL

Number 3 had me laughing for 5 minutes..

 

[Powdermonkey]

1. At DO school, you learn about the healing powers of herbs and roots, combined with chanting and yoga.

2. It is harder to get into an MD school because God hates you.

3. DO school is harder because you are stoned all the time.

4. From DO school, you can take electricity and magnetism courses at any number of online programs.

pffffttt!!!!! I think juice just came out of my nose...

Whats the difference between M.D and D.O schools?
Why is it harder to get in to M.D school then DO schools?
Which one is more challenging and why?
Can you go in EM if you go to a DO school?

To save you some grief, this is a very controversial topic, that most people that are wanting to go to DO school have to fight tooth and nail with the pre-allo people with all the time. For some reason the preallo students think that the DO degree is more like a witch doctor mojo jojo degree than an MD degree. Its not. DO students actually take the exact same classes as an MD student, plus some extras in OMM which are osteopathic medical manipulation (right??).

So to answer the questions:

1. They are practically the same. Classes are the same. In DO school you are taught the principles of Andrew Taylor Still, the founder of osteopathic medicine. You can resort to some google-fu if you want any more info, or just visit AACOM the Association of American Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine website for more information.

2. Its just as hard to get into DO school as MD school. I think the average MCAT and GPA are a few tenths of a point lower for DO school because they don't weight these criteria as heavily as MD schools do. They look more at the person and their personality versus just book smarts, and are more forgiving of "issues" you might have had in undergraduate studies. But again, they are just as competitive to get into as MD schools.

3. More challenging... Im gonna say tie again. Med school is not easy. DO students can go and be residents in MD programs or DO specialty programs so I guess its as challenging as you make it. Just because you are an MD does not automatically make you a good physician. Just as being a DO does not automatically make you a quack Dr. Ask JPH, who posts on here, I'm sure he is full of opinions on whether or not DO school is challenging.

4. As I said above, DOs can apply to both MD and DO residencies, so they are not confined to family practice or working out in the boonies in an urgent care clinic. You will probably have a better chance of scoring the MD residencies as a DO by taking the USMLEs vs. the COMLEX exams for DO students simply because the COMLEX is relatively new (past 20-30 years I think...) so the MD residencies are still trying to convert scores between the two tests.

I think I answered your questions, and if you have more ask. Maybe put a disclaimer when you ask them that you are not trolling, because it has happened all too often, and its not a good outcome. Feel free to pm me if you do have any more questions, or just ask here, I or someone will help you out, I'm sure.



Those more in the know, please correct me if I am wrong, or if more is needed.

 

[Ilikescience]

1. At DO school, you learn about the healing powers of herbs and roots, combined with chanting and yoga.

2. It is harder to get into an MD school because God hates you.

3. DO school is harder because you are stoned all the time.

4. From DO school, you can take electricity and magnetism courses at any number of online programs.

If these things weren't true I would withdraw my application to DO schools all together!

 

[Jpc984]

I don't think it is the exact teachings of A.T. Still. It sort of changed to increase its scope of practice (a long time ago). A.T. was not a fan of pharmaceuticals. I do not think that is true about DOs today.

 

[Navy94]

pffffttt!!!!! I think juice just came out of my nose...


To save you some grief, this is a very controversial topic, that most people that are wanting to go to DO school have to fight tooth and nail with the pre-allo people with all the time. For some reason the preallo students think that the DO degree is more like a witch doctor mojo jojo degree than an MD degree. Its not. DO students actually take the exact same classes as an MD student, plus some extras in OMM which are osteopathic medical manipulation (right??).

So to answer the questions:

1. They are practically the same. Classes are the same. In DO school you are taught the principles of Andrew Taylor Still, the founder of osteopathic medicine. You can resort to some google-fu if you want any more info, or just visit AACOM the Association of American Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine website for more information.

2. Its just as hard to get into DO school as MD school. I think the average MCAT and GPA are a few tenths of a point lower for DO school because they don't weight these criteria as heavily as MD schools do. They look more at the person and their personality versus just book smarts, and are more forgiving of "issues" you might have had in undergraduate studies. But again, they are just as competitive to get into as MD schools.

3. More challenging... Im gonna say tie again. Med school is not easy. DO students can go and be residents in MD programs or DO specialty programs so I guess its as challenging as you make it. Just because you are an MD does not automatically make you a good physician. Just as being a DO does not automatically make you a quack Dr. Ask JPH, who posts on here, I'm sure he is full of opinions on whether or not DO school is challenging.

4. As I said above, DOs can apply to both MD and DO residencies, so they are not confined to family practice or working out in the boonies in an urgent care clinic. You will probably have a better chance of scoring the MD residencies as a DO by taking the USMLEs vs. the COMLEX exams for DO students simply because the COMLEX is relatively new (past 20-30 years I think...) so the MD residencies are still trying to convert scores between the two tests.

I think I answered your questions, and if you have more ask. Maybe put a disclaimer when you ask them that you are not trolling, because it has happened all too often, and its not a good outcome. Feel free to pm me if you do have any more questions, or just ask here, I or someone will help you out, I'm sure.



Those more in the know, please correct me if I am wrong, or if more is needed.

This is one of the best responses to a post I have seen on this sight. Finally a mature, thought out response.

 

[Animus]

This is one of the best responses to a post I have seen on this sight. Finally a mature, thought out response.

Perhaps if you had been on this site for more than 10 posts you would understand why people like me answer the way we do to posts like this. There is no response needed, either the person is a troll or they should be doing their own research into this area if they want to apply to medical school. Most people that want to be doctors actually look into the profession they hope to be a part of...

On top of that you could find out the answers to these questions in five minutes or less if you really wanted to know.

 

[speeter]

There are no stupid questions...only stupid people.

 

[Navy94]

Perhaps if you had been on this site for more than 10 posts you would understand why people like me answer the way we do to posts like this. There is no response needed, either the person is a troll or they should be doing their own research into this area if they want to apply to medical school. Most people that want to be doctors actually look into the profession they hope to be a part of...

On top of that you could find out the answers to these questions in five minutes or less if you really wanted to know.

I have been on this site for about a year now and have read many, many bad post and have read just as many bad responses. I have only posted 10 times because most of the posts and responses are not worth my time. I do understand where you are coming from, but right or wrong some people are using this site for research.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Oh man this is a really good idea for a thread. Someone should sticky this and put it in some sort of FAQ or something ....

Differences:
DO Schools - Only 2 years, you aren't a realy doctor, you make 1/2 of any MD in the same area of medicine, it's super easy to get into, you will not be able to have any patients after graduation because people will see that you are a DO (not a real doctor) and go running for the hills...

 

[pakbabydoll]

There is no response needed, either the person is a troll or they should be doing their own research into this area if they want to apply to medical school.

I did do my research except the Princeton review said that there is no "REAL" difference between them, they are more alike then different. It also said that main difference is that DO schools spend a little more time on a persons whole health. I guess like D.O schools try to graduate well rounded physicians before going in to specialties rather then going in to a specialty from the beginning. Am I making any sense?

Sorry if I sounded rude when I asked this question but I wanted to know what students like you guys thought. Its my first year in college so I am not used to all this.

I think I answered your questions, and if you have more ask. Maybe put a disclaimer when you ask them that you are not trolling, because it has happened all too often, and its not a good outcome. Feel free to pm me if you do have any more questions, or just ask here, I or someone will help you out, I'm sure.

Thank you so much and yes you answered my questions very well.

One more question though does going to a CC for first two years hurt your chances of getting in to a DO school?
I am going to take
Biology 1&2
Chem 1&2
Math till Calculus
English 1,2,& 3

and all of my general education requirements at a CC.
I am going to save
Physics
O-Chem
Biochemistry for a university .

I am planing on being a microbiology major with a minor in chemistry.

 

[medhacker]

I did do my research except the Princeton review said that there is no "REAL" difference between them, they are more alike then different. It also said that main difference is that DO schools spend a little more time on a persons whole health. I guess like D.O schools try to graduate well rounded physicians before going in to specialties rather then going in to a specialty from the beginning. Am I making any sense?

Sorry if I sounded rude when I asked this question but I wanted to know what students like you guys thought. Its my first year in college so I am not used to all this.



Thank you so much and yes you answered my questions very well.

One more question though does going to a CC for first two years hurt your chances of getting in to a DO school?
I am going to take
Biology 1&2
Chem 1&2
Math till Calculus
English 1,2,& 3

and all of my general education requirements at a CC.
I am going to save
Physics
O-Chem
Biochemistry for a university .

I am planing on being a microbiology major with a minor in chemistry.

At most places it won't. Better to call the indiv. schools an to get it straight from the ADCOMs. Best.

 

[Powdermonkey]

One more question though does going to a CC for first two years hurt your chances of getting in to a DO school?
I am going to take
Biology 1&2
Chem 1&2
Math till Calculus
English 1,2,& 3

and all of my general education requirements at a CC.
I am going to save
Physics
O-Chem
Biochemistry for a university .

I am planing on being a microbiology major with a minor in chemistry.

I would think that as long as you did well in these classes, and took some upper division classes in biology and chemistry (and did well in them also), that it would hurt you to do this. Because of financial reasons I am taking my last four prereq classes that were not in my engineering degree, bio 1-2 and organic 1-2, at the community college near my house versus the University of Tennessee. The classes at the CC were not only cheaper, but they fit much better with my work schedule so it was kind of a no brainer. I have done very well in all of the classes I have had so far, and honestly I dont know if the quality is any better or worse than a 'real' university, but all of the classes seem very well put together. I dont really know if this helps you any, but there you go.

Keep in mind that these are only my opinions, and I am no where near an ADCOM, I am merely applying this year so I have no better knowledge of the system than you. So take with a grain of salt, but well... you know. My $0.02.

-Ryan

 

[scpod]

..One more question though does going to a CC for first two years hurt your chances of getting in to a DO school? ...

No, not at all. I know lot's of people who have done that. Just do well in your classes. That's what counts most.

...I am planing on being a microbiology major with a minor in chemistry.

That might help you once you're in med school, but it could hurt you on the MCAT. Statistically speaking, Biology majors are the next-to-worst scorers on the MCAT. The only major worse than that is Health Sciences. IMO it's because Biology majors spend so much time memorizing pathways and stupid other things that they don't get too many opportunities to think about things. At least it was that way in my experience.

However, I really do believe that it helped me a lot in med school to be a Bio major (and chem minor) because I had a lot of exposure to the material already. Med school classes really aren't that tough, there's just a whole heck of a lot of material to learn at one time. Knowing some of the basic stuff ahead of time certainly made it easier.

 

[pakbabydoll]

That might help you once you're in med school, but it could hurt you on the MCAT. Statistically speaking, Biology majors are the next-to-worst scorers on the MCAT.

What do you suggest I do? I know a Kaplan tutor personally and he agreed to give me lessons at my house (for free 😉 ) ones I start studying for it.

 

[scpod]

What do you suggest I do? I know a Kaplan tutor personally and he agreed to give me lessons at my house (for free 😉 ) ones I start studying for it.

You can't beat free tutoring. Really, the best thing to do is to take things that interest you-- that you can get good grades in. Just make sure that you include the time to do all the "little" things that some people forget. Start now creating relationships with professors who will write LORs for you. Join some clubs and become an officer. Do some volunteer work. Get in some clinical experience. If you want to do some research put that on your schedule too. It's NOT too early to start thinking about that stuff. Every little thing you can add to your resume now makes your application just that much better when you apply in a few years. It will also help should you stumble somewhat and have a couple of bad grades or a less-than-desirable MCAT score. Becoming a physician is a really, really long process, so work on your timeline and make sure that you have all the bases covered.

 

[JaggerPlate]

No, not at all. I know lot's of people who have done that. Just do well in your classes. That's what counts most.



That might help you once you're in med school, but it could hurt you on the MCAT. Statistically speaking, Biology majors are the next-to-worst scorers on the MCAT. The only major worse than that is Health Sciences. IMO it's because Biology majors spend so much time memorizing pathways and stupid other things that they don't get too many opportunities to think about things. At least it was that way in my experience.

However, I really do believe that it helped me a lot in med school to be a Bio major (and chem minor) because I had a lot of exposure to the material already. Med school classes really aren't that tough, there's just a whole heck of a lot of material to learn at one time. Knowing some of the basic stuff ahead of time certainly made it easier.

That statement is a little off. It is correct, but the truth is that 70% of the people that take the MCAT are biology/biological science majors so they do hold the majority of the scores. The highest scores to go the engineers, but they make up a much smaller majority ... the rest (I assume) are spread randomly. So it kinda hard to call the majority 'the lower end' instead of considering it the norm, and others as extremes, or exceptions. Just my dos pesos.

 

[scpod]

That statement is a little off. It is correct, but the truth is that 70% of the people that take the MCAT are biology/biological science majors so they do hold the majority of the scores. The highest scores to go the engineers, but they make up a much smaller majority ... the rest (I assume) are spread randomly. So it kinda hard to call the majority 'the lower end' instead of considering it the norm, and others as extremes, or exceptions. Just my dos pesos.

Not quite. These are the facts for the 2006 MCAT:

55% of test takers (21,603 of 39,108) were Biology Majors, with an average MCAT of 27.2; Humanities= 28.7; Math & Stats= 28.6; Phys SCi= 29.2; Social Sci= 27.3; Health Sci= 24.7.

54% of matriculants (9439 of 17378) were Biology majors, with an average MCAT of 30.1; Humanities= 31.0; Math & Stats= 31.5; Phys SCi= 31.6; Social Sci= 30.2; Health Sci= 28.7.


43.7% of those Biology majors who took the MCAT (9439 of 21,603) matriculated into med school; Humanities= 53%; Math & Stats= 48%; Physical Sciences= 50%; Social Sciences= 45%; Health Sciences= 35%.

So... just over half of the MCAT takers were Biology majors. 43.7% of them matrticulated into med school (the 2nd lowest average of any major) and the matriculants averaged a 30.1 (also the 2nd lowest of any major). I might mention that average for ALL matriculants was a 30.4, so Biology majors fell below that as well.

I'm not trying to say anything other than the facts. I was a Biology major. I like Biology majors-- but maybe it's just not the best thing to major in anymore. That's all I'm saying.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/mcatgpabymaj1.htm

 

[JaggerPlate]

Not quite. These are the facts for the 2006 MCAT:

55% of test takers (21,603 of 39,108) were Biology Majors, with an average MCAT of 27.2; Humanities= 28.7; Math & Stats= 28.6; Phys SCi= 29.2; Social Sci= 27.3; Health Sci= 24.7.

54% of matriculants (9439 of 17378) were Biology majors, with an average MCAT of 30.1; Humanities= 31.0; Math & Stats= 31.5; Phys SCi= 31.6; Social Sci= 30.2; Health Sci= 28.7.


43.7% of those Biology majors who took the MCAT (9439 of 21,603) matriculated into med school; Humanities= 53%; Math & Stats= 48%; Physical Sciences= 50%; Social Sciences= 45%; Health Sciences= 35%.

So... just over half of the MCAT takers were Biology majors. 43.7% of them matrticulated into med school (the 2nd lowest average of any major) and the matriculants averaged a 30.1 (also the 2nd lowest of any major). I might mention that average for ALL matriculants was a 30.4, so Biology majors fell below that as well.

I'm not trying to say anything other than the facts. I was a Biology major. I like Biology majors-- but maybe it's just not the best thing to major in anymore. That's all I'm saying.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/mcatgpabymaj1.htm

45% vs 43.7% vs 35% .... sounds like more of a break down on a personal level opposed to how your major preps you for the mcat/how it determines if you will matrticulate. I still think it should also be taken into consideration that Biology majors make up 55% (sorry for my inaccurate estimate before) of the test takers ... and less that half of the remaining test takers were broken down into five different areas of study. I am not trying to argue ... it's just that stats can be misleading, and I truly believe it's about how you prepare yourself for the mcat. I mean, look at differences in scores between people who take review classes and those who don't. Are you going to try to say that a Biology major who took a Kaplan review course will score lower than a Phys Sci major who did not? Of course not. One prepared themself, one did not. It's not going to be a break down by major, and the only reason it seems that way is because 55% of people who take the test major in Biology.

 

[Archer]

From the statistics it looks like my major in English was a good thing!

 

[JaggerPlate]

From the statistics it looks like my major in English was a good thing!

It makes you stand out ... which is always a plus. I orignally wanted to major in Econ, but pre med + econ = going over on units/taking 5 years to graduate (if I could have figured out how to do it without breaking my unit cap). In the end I stuck with Biology ... it gives me the best chance to bring up my science gpa and in the end; it is what interests me the most. Major in what you like ... as long as you complete 'pre med,' it's not going to change your MCAT score.

 

[scpod]

45% vs 43.7% vs 35% .... sounds like more of a break down on a personal level opposed to how your major preps you for the mcat/how it determines if you will matrticulate.... One prepared themself, one did not. It's not going to be a break down by major, and the only reason it seems that way is because 55% of people who take the test major in Biology.

IF,and only if, it broke down that way in only one year then your argument might hold water. BUT... I've run the numbers for quite a few years now and it is the same EVERY year. This is not just because some people study and prepare differently. The same majors fair the same way EVERY year. If you want me to do the math and come up with a correlation, I will-- but you'll have to wait until after my PBL test on Friday 😀.

 

[Nasem]

2. Its just as hard to get into DO school as MD school. I think the average MCAT and GPA are a few tenths of a point lower for DO school because they don't weight these criteria as heavily as MD schools do. They look more at the person and their personality versus just book smarts, and are more forgiving of "issues" you might have had in undergraduate studies. But again, they are just as competitive to get into as MD schools.

I would respectfully disagree with this statement.
Its true that DO schools are FAR more forgiving than MD schools ESSPECIALLY when it comes to classes that are re-taken.... therefor, the average GPA of a DO applicant will only reflect courses that were obtained with the highest mark (regardless if it was taken a first time or 2nd time)
VS. the poor MD applicant, if he retakes a courses, its a death sentence because not only do they NOT remove the old grade, but they average the 2 together (you a 60% first time, 100% 2nd time, your average is 80%)

However, I do agree with how DO schools look upon the whole person rather than just a few numbers, and its certainly helpful for someone like myself, I defenetly see myself being more competitive for DO schools than I do for any MD school.

 

[Natatiap]

I dont want to sound rude but honestly a good source of information comes from FAQ at the top of the threads page, www.aacom.org and just a regular google search.

 

[pakbabydoll]

I dont want to sound rude but honestly a good source of information comes from FAQ at the top of the threads page, www.aacom.org and just a regular google search.

yes but its more fun to compare opinions. Thats what this forum is for.

 

[JaggerPlate]

IF,and only if, it broke down that way in only one year then your argument might hold water. BUT... I've run the numbers for quite a few years now and it is the same EVERY year. This is not just because some people study and prepare differently. The same majors fair the same way EVERY year. If you want me to do the math and come up with a correlation, I will-- but you'll have to wait until after my PBL test on Friday 😀.

Hahaha no ... study for your test, I'm sure you are right. I'm just saying I wouldn't switch my bio major to like phys sci in an attempt to 'potentially' be in a different bracketish type thing when it came to MCAT scores. They say to major in what interests you ... and that is what I'm doing. All I'm saying (I guess) is that I personally believe that personal prep will beat out a major choice anyday. Your facts are right now ... and I'm not going to argue that 👍