A thread for current MD/MBA applicants

[SanDiegoSOD]

There seems to be a few of us here who are applying for next years entering class and are also interested in the dual degree. Let's keep this thread open for strategizing, networking, and possibly griping througout the process. Feel free to post questions and update this thread with your progress. I'll start with a little about myself:
I'm a graduating senior, Political Science major and bio minor. I'm interested in the dual degree because my previous work starting a non-profit and my desire to be involved with such endeavors in the future. I believe that a detailed knowledge of finance and management will be helpful in such pursuits, as well as be useful in a hospital or personal practice setting. I'm applying to roughly 20 schools, all of which have MD/MBA programs (except for the backup schools), but I won't be marking myself as a dual degree candidate on AMCAS - I'm a bit worried about labeling myself in a setting that doesn't fully embrace the pursuit of the dual degree. I'm looking forward to the process! (kind of )

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[Shredder]

im a third year and am filling out the amcas right now, but i dont think im going to concern myself with the mba part until after i get into med school. you already took the gmat? thats the main thing for me, i will need some time to prepare and take it, and i dont see that happening in the next few months.

im interested in biotech, pharma, vc, consulting, or entrepreneurship. im not too into the idea of clinical medicine as a lifelong career but id like to exert my influence in the medical sphere, i prolly cant vocalize this to adcoms though. as for labeling as an md/mba applicant, on one hand there is the lack of embrace but on the other hand it may set you apart if you can convince them, but is it worth the risk.

 

[CanuckRazorback]

I've had mixed responses about the whole MBA thing. I was already in an MBA program when I applied. I had a lot of interviewers wonder why I decided to get an MBA before med school. As long as you have an intelligent and well-thought out answer to give them, I don't think it will negatively affect you. I don't know if I'd go as far as telling them that you're interested in VC/pharma/etc., but don't hide your interest in the MBA. I actually had one interviewer who almost hugged me because she was so happy I understood the administrative aspect of medicine and so thrilled that I decided to get an MBA. That wasn't everywhere though.

On top of your plan for utilizing your MBA, it never hurts to tell them that healthcare administration will be an option if later on in your career you get fed up with clinical medicine, or if something happens to you that prevents you from practicing medicine (accident, etc.) I told one of my itnerviewer that if in 35 years I am sick and tired of dealing with patients, I will have the option to go into administration. I told him that I'd much rather retire from clinical medicine than be the old fed up doctor who doesn't give a crap. Worked for me.

 

[Shredder]

lately im thinking more and more about toning down business interests a lot and following a fairly cookie cutter formula. it gets complicated when too much business comes into play. it would be hard to avoid it altogether with all of the biz classes on my transcript, but mentioning it a lot could doom you, just like a researcher premed talking too much about research. ill have to think of how to incorporate it--in truth im more intrigued by b school than med school, so its tricky.

i was thinking why dont they have some premed qualification test that if you do well on it, they wont ask too many questions. i realized that isnt that supposed to be the MCAT? i feel like they dont give it that much weight though, sigh.

 

[acidhouse303]

this might be a stupid question but can you just get your MBA after getting MD? When would you take GMATs and when do you do the applications? Would you be going straight into MBA after MD and skip residency all together? let me know thanks

 

[Shredder]

this might be a stupid question but can you just get your MBA after getting MD? When would you take GMATs and when do you do the applications? Would you be going straight into MBA after MD and skip residency all together? let me know thanks

yes i believe people do this. if you havent done a residency at the time of applying, it is said that you can count clinical rounds as work experience. but im sure thats not as strong as some managerial or entrepreneurial experience which would probably be ideal. theres only one GMAT...

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

this might be a stupid question but can you just get your MBA after getting MD? When would you take GMATs and when do you do the applications? Would you be going straight into MBA after MD and skip residency all together? let me know thanks

You should check out MD-MBA.org, it gives a good analysis of the difference between an MBA during or after medical school.

 

[ASDIC]

I got into the MD/MBA program at NJMS....I start my MBA this fall. If you have any questions, PM me.

 

[Shredder]

all of the schools im applying to state they have MD/MBA programs, but only some offer it as an option on the AMCAS. does it matter at all? how can i find out?

 

[ASDIC]

some schools dont list the MD/MBA option on the AMCAS, so you will need to email or write a letter to the Admissions Office expressing your interest in the program.

 

[Shredder]

some schools dont list the MD/MBA option on the AMCAS, so you will need to email or write a letter to the Admissions Office expressing your interest in the program.

im not going to be applying for the joint md/mba until after i get admitted to the med schools, so it makes me wonder if i should indicate mba at all on my amcas. does checking the mba mean anything official, or is it just an unofficial indication of interest for adcoms to perhaps consider? there are a few other options to check as well like mph etc.

 

[DrBowtie]

I was wondering the same thing shredder.

 

[ASDIC]

I would suggest that you put it on there....because this will inform the med schools that ur interested in the MBA, and maybe this could boost ur chances of getting in.

Med schools always desire applicants who want to do dual degrees, provided you have good credentials.

 

[Shredder]

I would suggest that you put it on there....because this will inform the med schools that ur interested in the MBA, and maybe this could boost ur chances of getting in.

Med schools always desire applicants who want to do dual degrees, provided you have good credentials.

sounds good, pretty encouraging, i hope it holds true. i might as well indicate it and if anything goes awry ill truthfully say i didnt know any better. i just wish all of the schools had the check boxes, thats what doesnt make a lot of sense to me.

 

[thehopeful]

hey

do you guys know which ones are 4-year long. i went to md-mba.org (thank you for that, i didn't know it existed), but there was no easy way to tell which ones are 4-year. I'm usre most are 5years long, but i'm interested in the one's that can be done in 4. I understand this means taking classes the summer before med school starts and the summer after first year, but I'm serioudly interested and i'm hoping you guys can help.

Thank You

 

[Shredder]

hey

do you guys know which ones are 4-year long. i went to md-mba.org (thank you for that, i didn't know it existed), but there was no easy way to tell which ones are 4-year. I'm usre most are 5years long, but i'm interested in the one's that can be done in 4. I understand this means taking classes the summer before med school starts and the summer after first year, but I'm serioudly interested and i'm hoping you guys can help.

Thank You

texas tech has one

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

I know that I'm not indicating MD/MBA on my AMCAS. I'm just too worried that some doc will interview me, see that I'm an MD/MBA applicant and a white frat boy, and label me as some uncaring money *****. I know that's a bit extreme, but I could see that happening and I just won't take the chance. However, at interviews, I will be expressing a vague interest in dual degree programs.

 

[ASDIC]

well many MD/MBA applicants believe that they are going to be treated as tho they are after money. but if you give valid reasons and be strong in your committment to healthcare management, you will impress the ADCOM.

Being vague will only hurt you.

 

[Shredder]

apparently NYU doesn't have an MD/MBA combined program. thats too bad, since their med school ranking is low but b school is fairly high. any suggestions on schools with low med rankings and high b rankings? im looking for schools to get into based on gpa and mcat essentially. northwestern chicago and dartmouth are tops on my list by these criteria. b school ranking matters for success whereas med school ranking hardly does.

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

apparently NYU doesn't have an MD/MBA combined program. thats too bad, since their med school ranking is low but b school is fairly high.

I've never heard anyone describe being 32 on the US News list as "low".

 

[cleansocks]

Tufts md/mba is four years. I'm in that now.



I would recommend not admitting you want to be an MBA student as well, especially in the case of getting into med school first then applying to business school later. I asked UCLA, where I interviewed, what the weakest part of my app was. They said that that they like to see a committment to being a physician first, and felt that since I showed a passion for business, it seemed like I should just get an MBA. Other interests seem to distract medical schools from the fact that you want to be a doctor. This is not good. It can nullify good clinical experience and an evident passion for medicine. Tell them you want to help people and save the world, then go for the business degree, vc, consulting, investment banking, and all that fun stuff.

Just to show you what expressing interest in both medicine and business in personal statement / interview can do to an applicant, I will provide my mdapp profile.

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?myid=03322

Tufts is the only school to which I applied that offers an md/mba program up front without requiring GMAT. For this reason, the passion for both med and business helped and I was accepted.

 

[Shredder]

Tufts md/mba is four years. I'm in that now.

I would recommend not admitting you want to be an MBA student as well, especially in the case of getting into med school first then applying to business school later. I asked UCLA, where I interviewed, what the weakest part of my app was. They said that that they like to see a committment to being a physician first, and felt that since I showed a passion for business, it seemed like I should just get an MBA. Other interests seem to distract medical schools from the fact that you want to be a doctor. This is not good. It can nullify good clinical experience and an evident passion for medicine. Tell them you want to help people and save the world, then go for the business degree, vc, consulting, investment banking, and all that fun stuff.

Just to show you what expressing interest in both medicine and business in personal statement / interview can do to an applicant, I will provide my mdapp profile.

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?myid=03322

Tufts is the only school to which I applied that offers an md/mba program up front without requiring GMAT. For this reason, the passion for both med and business helped and I was accepted.

looks like a rough journey, your mcat was a little low but the other credentials looked good. i mentioned md/mba in a paragraph in my PS, as i have a conspicuous absence of volunteering and several business classes that would be unexplained otherwise. im really trying to incorporate the helping people and caring and all while using business to "advance patient care".

economics thesis, sweet, like the prisoners dilemma.

I've never heard anyone describe being 32 on the US News list as "low".

i meant relatively compared to top 10-20

 

[cleansocks]

looks like a rough journey, your mcat was a little low but the other credentials looked good. i mentioned md/mba in a paragraph in my PS, as i have a conspicuous absence of volunteering and several business classes that would be unexplained otherwise. im really trying to incorporate the helping people and caring and all while using business to "advance patient care".

I hope it works for you; I know you desire the top programs. Yah, the 11 ave was a little low for schools that love numbers (washu, cornell, etc) but for most of the schools i applied to it was right around the average, and several other achievements (magna, highest distinction, honors degree, best thesis award, etc) probably make up for that. If I were to do it again I'd place a lot more focus on all my clinical/volunteering experiences. Even if you have only a few, make them seem very meaningful and highlight them in your app + at interviews.

economics thesis, sweet, like the prisoners dilemma.

Heh it was actually international finance, on why domestic investors around the world hold almost exclusively domestic securities.

 

[Shredder]

I hope it works for you; I know you desire the top programs. Yah, the 11 ave was a little low for schools that love numbers (washu, cornell, etc) but for most of the schools i applied to it was right around the average, and several other achievements (magna, highest distinction, honors degree, best thesis award, etc) probably make up for that. If I were to do it again I'd place a lot more focus on all my clinical/volunteering experiences. Even if you have only a few, make them seem very meaningful and highlight them in your app + at interviews.

top schools cite 33 or 34 as the average, but urms do lower this, so mcat and gpa stats cant be trusted entirely. yeah...adcoms arent really looking for diversity as far as interests go, cookie cutter is the safe bet. honestly top programs only for business, these days i dont even know why im pursuing medicine at all, its ridiculous that they would frown on an aspiring md/mba and it reflects on how silly they are.

Heh it was actually international finance, on why domestic investors around the world hold almost exclusively domestic securities.

patriotism? familiarity? im interested in international business and capitalizing on burgeoning indian markets. global economy.

 

[cleansocks]

top schools cite 33 or 34 as the average, but urms do lower this, so mcat and gpa stats cant be trusted entirely. yeah...adcoms arent really looking for diversity as far as interests go, cookie cutter is the safe bet. honestly top programs only for business, these days i dont even know why im pursuing medicine at all, its ridiculous that they would frown on an aspiring md/mba and it reflects on how silly they are.

have to agree with you there, on both the MCAT thing and the ridiculous narrow-mindedness of adcoms. =)

patriotism? familiarity? im interested in international business and capitalizing on burgeoning indian markets. global economy.

Heh... well that requires somewhat of a detailed response.

People have conjectured a large number of possibilities. I first determined the major advantage to a country level diversified portfolio would be systematic (market level) risk reduction and not returns through imperfect market correlation. This was actually quite an effort in itself. None of the arguments people have come up with are very convincing, and so I devised my own to explain not only its existence but its persistence over at least the past 30 years as well. It's fairly lengthy, relying on supply/demand pricing analysis, analogizing the IPO markets, and utilizing a recently developed theory of the current account, but the gist of the argument is that insurmountable information barriers exist for foreign investors: language at the primary level, and market experience at the secondary level. I give quite a few examples why a foreign language or lack of market experience would be very detrimental for foreign investors, including the more complicated economics I mention above, and why even modern technology could not easily overcome such barriers.

In case technology can be proven to overcome such barriers (doubtful), it would become increasingly easy for people to invest in foreign markets, and hence the percent of a market owned by foreigners should increase. However, this should also result in an increase of domestic and foreign market correlation, thus removing the initial systematic risk-reduction advantage. Basically the easier something is to accomplish (ie acquiring information for foreign market investment), the less the payoff (since market correlation increases). So as people notice the benefit to investing internationally is decreasing, they remove themselves from those markets, even if it's easier to invest in them now. This explains persistence of portfolio home bias even if information barriers decrease through technological progress (which i still think is not likely). I think one needs to immerse themselves in both the foreign culture and the foreign market for a while to build connections, be able to acquire the best information, and to gain experience with the idiosynchracies associated with that particular market.

sorry for the complex answer =) I didn't really know how to categorize that response simply. I don't know much about India either, so can't comment there ^^.

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

patriotism? familiarity? im interested in international business and capitalizing on burgeoning indian markets. global economy.

I really think you should forget about medicine and go straight into business, based on your posts. Medicine seems like an interest to you, but business seems like your love. You can graduate with your engineering degree, work a year or two in business, get an MBA, maybe a couple more years of experience, and then move right into entreprenuership. Of course you wouldnt have to take that route, but if it's international finance your interested in, you're going to need some experience. Don't waste your time and money on four years of medical school if you have no desire to practice clinical medicine; there are plenty of high paid hospital administrators and HMO managers that have no clinical backgroud.
But, of course, take this advice with a grain of salt, as I only know you based on your posts.

 

[Shredder]

I really think you should forget about medicine and go straight into business, based on your posts. Medicine seems like an interest to you, but business seems like your love. You can graduate with your engineering degree, work a year or two in business, get an MBA, maybe a couple more years of experience, and then move right into entreprenuership. Of course you wouldnt have to take that route, but if it's international finance your interested in, you're going to need some experience. Don't waste your time and money on four years of medical school if you have no desire to practice clinical medicine; there are plenty of high paid hospital administrators and HMO managers that have no clinical backgroud.
But, of course, take this advice with a grain of salt, as I only know you based on your posts.

yeah ive thought about it, but its pretty late for me now. i already took the mcat and filled out amcas, and spent all of college working toward med. i took up biz interests only within the last year or six months; its actually bc i feel with biz you really can "change the world" whereas with treating patients individually you just cant. i excel in med related classes anyway. if push comes to shove then i can quit med after i get into b school, but its better to make that decision later rather than prematurely which can lead to regrets. debt isnt an issue, its easily paid off. whether one goes to med school or not, it will still take about 5 years after graduation from college to get an mba, and 4 yrs to get an md is more valuable than a few years working at some entry level position.

one can be interested in many things, but in the end you still need a job to pay bills and buy food. one perk of med is that it provides good capital with which to launch other ventures without groveling to others for financing. there are a few docs on the forbes wealth lists, my heros.

 

[Law2Doc]

its actually bc i feel with biz you really can "change the world" whereas with treating patients individually you just cant.

While lofty goals are great, I fear you are destined to have a frustrating professional life. It's great to have college idealism, but at some point you are going to have to trade it in for some sense of real life perspective. Those of us leaving business-oriented careers for medicine will tell you that most people in that sector feel that they are certainly not changing the world in any appreciable way, and that they (career changers) hope they can add more value, and have a more intellectually stimulating and satisfying career in medicine. And at least in medicine you can conceivably make a positive impact one person at a time. Only a minute percentage of those who go into business-oriented fields see an opportunity to accomplish something great that will change the world, and they usually do it riding on the backs of someone else with a world changing invention/innovation (from whom they steal the credit -- eg. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, & so on).
Go into business only if you feel you will enjoy the particular job function, or if you enjoy the earning power, the fast pace, the lifestyle, or some other perq of the job -- people who go into it with those sensibilities tend to enjoy themselves more. But to go into it with an expectation to "change the world" is probably setting yourself up for depression and failure.

 

[cleansocks]

do you know any other school that offers md/mba in 4 years.

do you "check" md/mba part on tufts amcas application.

so how do they fit the mba part into the md. do you go the summer before school starts and the summer after first year.

what did you write on your app about mba and did you write anything in the secondary. did you mention anything on the amcas essay. i haven't taken any real business classes but i'm interested in it.

thanks, i'll ask more later.

I'm not sure about other ones. I actually thought this was the only one when I applied but they mentioned that since its inception tufts has helped form programs similar to its own in other locations. Tufts is probably the most renown of these 4 year ones, though.

Yah, check the MD/MBA part of your app. A word of caution though. If you check the md/mba, and are accepted into the md/mba, you are accepted to the md/mba program only. It's weird that way actually. They advertise that first the MD program accepts you, and then the committee on md/mba admissions decides whether or not you should be an md/mba student, but they don't warn you that if you're accepted by that committee you don't have a choice between md vs md/mba. If you want to drop md/mba subsequently for md, you are placed on the waitlist for md's.

yah u start the summer b4 1st semester and continue the next summer. All but a few classes are taken during these first two summers. I've found it to be extremely well integrated thus far.

You have to write an additional couple essays for your secondary if you decide to apply md/mba. I'd recommend not writing anything mba related in your personal statement. You're applying to other places too who will frown upon that. I'm sure you saw what that did to me in my mdapplicants thing.

 

[Shredder]

While lofty goals are great, I fear you are destined to have a frustrating professional life. It's great to have college idealism, but at some point you are going to have to trade it in for some sense of real life perspective. Those of us leaving business-oriented careers for medicine will tell you that most people in that sector feel that they are certainly not changing the world in any appreciable way, and that they (career changers) hope they can add more value, and have a more intellectually stimulating and satisfying career in medicine. And at least in medicine you can conceivably make a positive impact one person at a time. Only a minute percentage of those who go into business-oriented fields see an opportunity to accomplish something great that will change the world, and they usually do it riding on the backs of someone else with a world changing invention/innovation (from whom they steal the credit -- eg. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, & so on).
Go into business only if you feel you will enjoy the particular job function, or if you enjoy the earning power, the fast pace, the lifestyle, or some other perq of the job -- people who go into it with those sensibilities tend to enjoy themselves more. But to go into it with an expectation to "change the world" is probably setting yourself up for depression and failure.

well, the key is that with biz you have that potential to really hit it big, even after many failures. with medical practice you are guaranteed to make some difference and pull in a nice income, but there is a ceiling on what you can do. thats why i like the idea of md/mba combination, it seems like the best of both worlds. some guarantee, some risk. at least i can have some assurance with the combo that ill never fall flat on my face and be a total burnout. med law--hmm i guess theres always the option of doing A Few Good Docs

 

[Law2Doc]

well, the key is that with biz you have that potential to really hit it big, even after many failures. with medical practice you are guaranteed to make some difference and pull in a nice income, but there is a ceiling on what you can do. thats why i like the idea of md/mba combination, it seems like the best of both worlds. some guarantee, some risk. at least i can have some assurance with the combo that ill never fall flat on my face and be a total burnout. med law--hmm i guess theres always the option of doing A Few Good Docs

Not sure if you were taking a dig at my various and multiple credentials... but as a career changer I can assure you it involved a different analysis (and significantly more risk) than those of you who plan to get combined degrees. It's good to keep a lot of doors open, but if you define failure as anything short of "changing the world" (as you have suggested in a prior post), I think the odds are that you are going to be frustrated.

 

[Shredder]

Not sure if you were taking a dig at my various and multiple credentials... but as a career changer I can assure you it involved a different analysis (and significantly more risk) than those of you who plan to get combined degrees. It's good to keep a lot of doors open, but if you define failure as anything short of "changing the world" (as you have suggested in a prior post), I think the odds are that you are going to be frustrated.

hey law2doc, drat i was afraid you might take my remark that way, sorry. definitely not my intention--i have a lot of respect for your posts and opinions and i take them all into account. i just liked the idea of A Few Good Docs movie, could be intriguing, no? maybe a documentary on malpractice reform?

im young, i have a lot to learn, and ive learned much over college. im sure it will continue in the years to come. i think its good to keep that changing the world fire within oneself though, to always have that motivation and drive to stay hungry and striving. frustration? maybe. but if the alternative is my worst enemy complacency, ill take the former. as for odds, on first glance they are daunting, but the salient point is that its not a random distribution.

 

[DrBowtie]

Anyone worried about having half of their 4th year electives taken up by business internships? Especially for people who need the electives to do aways or for specialties not covered in third year.

Also, what was the consensus on checking MD/MBA on the AMCAS. I would like to be considered MD only also at some schools too.

 

[Shredder]

Anyone worried about having half of their 4th year electives taken up by business internships? Especially for people who need the electives to do aways or for specialties not covered in third year.

Also, what was the consensus on checking MD/MBA on the AMCAS. I would like to be considered MD only also at some schools too.

worried about internships, no way im looking forward to that more than anything. pfizer, johnson&johnson here i come. yeah i still dont know about that md mba...im planning on checking it but i hope they dont expect a gmat score.