A wolf in a sheepskin...MCAT and the power struggle

[ocwaveoc]

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MCAT is absolutely biased against racial minorities due to its heavy emphasis on verbal skills. In America, racial minorities' push for their agenda is done rather openly. The issues of affirmative action is a product of the racial minorities' interest. It is out in the open, discussed, refuted etc..... However, the agenda of the racial majority isn't something discussed openly or pushed forth openly. MCAT's heavy emphasis on verbal skills even in the science section is an example. Hiring practices of top executive positions in fortune 500 companies is another example which leaves behind qualified minority candidates in favor of a white candidate. Perhaps it's the "old boys club" mentality. But, such practices are very real, exists and affects even us, the premed students. Affirmative action is sort of a reverse discrimination against the racial majority. I wholeheartedly oppose it. I don't think racial minority with 0.2 lower in GPA and 5 points lower in MCAT score should get into a med school over a caucasian or Asian candidate with better numbers with other factors being similar such as EC, LOR etc..

How would you feel if you were applying to get into an engineering school in Germany after having lived in that country for say 10 years and they tested you on German VR, WS in German, Math and physical sciences which has as much to do with reading comprehension as understanding math and the physical sciences. Wouldn't you think "am I applying to become an engineer or a German linguistics teacher with minor in science?". It is absolutely essential to be fluent in the use of the English language in most professional jobs in the US. However, to design a test to mainly test for the skills in English rather than science concepts related to the profession is rather unfair to those whom English isn't their first language. A hidden agenda perhaps, the MCAT is to perpetuate the "old boys club" the best they can without making it so obvious.

So, as a powerless premed, I will have to play the game. I will work hard to do better in VR and deal with the purely English based types (rather than science concept based ) of questions in the science passages. I just have to work a little harder to get to achieve what I want to achieve. It seems most who'll criticize this post never stopped to think whether the MCAT really makes sense in the method they use to test the topics AND the heavy bias towards pure English skills rather than bias towards science concepts relevant to being a physician. Perhaps it's easier to not question the validity of the MCAT and label me as a complainer. Some call the MCAT a critical thinking test, I call it an English test with some science context .

 

[patrickd223]

I would expect it to be in german because it is germany... You gots a problem wit da MCAT fool?

 

[ocwaveoc]

I would expect it to be in german because it is germany... You gots a problem wit da MCAT fool?

You obviously have a reading comprehension problem to not understand my point in regards to the test in German.

 

[RoadRunner17]

What's the primary language that most doctors and patients interact by in this country? Even counting the southwestern population, it's English. Professionals trained here should know English. It sucks, because VR is annoying, but even native English speakers don't do well on this section.

In the end though, being a medical doctor entails a lot more than just being able to understand science-related texts. There's more to medicine than just being able to understand research papers, and any doctor should be able to easily handle it. That's my opinion anyway.. I wouldn't mind if they overhauled the VR section to what you're saying, but it'd be pretty lame to have yet another sciences-related section. I think the sciences sections do a good job of doing what you want the VR section to be doing.

 

[DrBowtie]

Well the MCAT isn't a straightforward science test. They are fairly explicit about it.

 

[scotties123]

u wrote too much so i stopped after the first paragraph. first of all, life isnt fair, get used to it. its ridiculous how many people get accepted into law school, pharm school, dental school, and yes, even med school because of parents' connections and flat out bribery. But guess what. THIS IS LIFE. Second of all, I am a racial minority and I do NOT feel disadvantaged at all. If you feel disadvantaged because of the verbal section and an inability to comprehend it, then guess what.....HOW DO U PLAN ON DOING IN MED SCHOOL? Also, you have to be able to speak to your patients and not rely solely on playing charades, so I suggest brushing up on english comprehension if that's a problem for u. And it's clear that you dont have a problem understanding english, based on your post, so why r u even complaining?
geez, im so sick of people complaining that life isnt fair. ur not going to be handed things in life, fight for what u want and get it.

 

[DrBowtie]

The Medical College Admission Test (MCAT) is a standardized, multiple-choice examination designed to assess the examinee's problem solving, critical thinking, writing skills, and knowledge of science concepts and principles prerequisite to the study of medicine.

I'm guessing you're opposed to this:
http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/research/comskillfaq.htm

What about interviews?

 

[J ROD]

I suggest for those with this kind of problem to get some cheese for that whine!!

As a physician, you have to take in alot of data (comprehend) and apply it to patients with all sorts of individual circumstances. Memorizing a bunch of facts will be only slighlty beneficial.

Sound like the MCAT...

The passages are there to apply the knowledge to novel situations and the reading comprehension makes sure you can do.

As a physician, you are expected to be able to read, write, and communicate written and verbally well. So, for those with a problem, instead of speaking with slang and not caring about "proper" english. I suggest taking a English class or two. If you can not comprehend your own native language, then you do not deserve to be a physician. The MCAT verbal is tough, but I know I would like my doctor to be able to comprehend the subtle differences of the native language.

It is true that there needs to be more racial parity in regards to physicians matching the general population, but not at the expense of intelligently dumbing down the test.

Lastly, when I took my verbal classes in school, I did not take my classes separate from minorities. We took them together. I learned to comprehend well enough to get a 10+. Work hard and save the excuses!!!

 

[Schaden Freud]

Go sell crazy someplace else. We're all stocked up here.

MCAT is absolutely biased against racial minorities due to its heavy emphasis on verbal skills. In America, racial minorities' push for their agenda is done rather openly. The issues of affirmative action is a product of the racial minorities' interest. It is out in the open, discussed, refuted etc..... However, the agenda of the racial majority isn't something discussed openly or pushed forth openly. MCAT's heavy emphasis on verbal skills even in the science section is an example. Hiring practices of top executive positions in fortune 500 companies is another example which leaves behind qualified minority candidates in favor of a white candidate. Perhaps it's the "old boys club" mentality. But, such practices are very real, exists and affects even us, the premed students. Affirmative action is sort of a reverse discrimination against the racial majority. I wholeheartedly oppose it. I don't think racial minority with 0.2 lower in GPA and 5 points lower in MCAT score should get into a med school over a caucasian or Asian candidate with better numbers with other factors being similar such as EC, LOR etc..

How would you feel if you were applying to get into an engineering school in Germany after having lived in that country for say 10 years and they tested you on German VR, WS in German, Math and physical sciences which has as much to do with reading comprehension as understanding math and the physical sciences. Wouldn't you think "am I applying to become an engineer or a German linguistics teacher with minor in science?". It is absolutely essential to be fluent in the use of the English language in most professional jobs in the US. However, to design a test to mainly test for the skills in English rather than science concepts related to the profession is rather unfair to those whom English isn't their first language. A hidden agenda perhaps, the MCAT is to perpetuate the "old boys club" the best they can without making it so obvious.

So, as a powerless premed, I will have to play the game. I will work hard to do better in VR and deal with the purely English based types (rather than science concept based ) of questions in the science passages. I just have to work a little harder to get to achieve what I want to achieve. It seems most who'll criticize this post never stopped to think whether the MCAT really makes sense in the method they use to test the topics AND the heavy bias towards pure English skills rather than bias towards science concepts relevant to being a physician. Perhaps it's easier to not question the validity of the MCAT and label me as a complainer. Some call the MCAT a critical thinking test, I call it an English test with some science context .

 

[ocwaveoc]

u wrote too much so i stopped after the first paragraph. first of all, life isnt fair, get used to it. its ridiculous how many people get accepted into law school, pharm school, dental school, and yes, even med school because of parents' connections and flat out bribery. But guess what. THIS IS LIFE. Second of all, I am a racial minority and I do NOT feel disadvantaged at all. If you feel disadvantaged because of the verbal section and an inability to comprehend it, then guess what.....HOW DO U PLAN ON DOING IN MED SCHOOL? Also, you have to be able to speak to your patients and not rely solely on playing charades, so I suggest brushing up on english comprehension if that's a problem for u. And it's clear that you dont have a problem understanding english, based on your post, so why r u even complaining?
geez, im so sick of people complaining that life isnt fair. ur not going to be handed things in life, fight for what u want and get it.

By the way, I love that "I beat my meat" animation. Funny.
My science prereq grades are mostly A+'s and some A's. I have no problem with sciences. I just have an issue with MCAT's science sections which are simply VR disguised as science passages. Yes, communication in English is essential in being a physician (or any profession). But, to have a test which is mostly VR even in the science sections is a bit biased, in my opinion. I have no problem with communicating with patients. I have been working in the healthcare profession for the past 10+ years.

 

[scotties123]

By the way, I love that "I beat my meat" animation. Funny.
My science prereq grades are mostly A+'s and some A's. I have no problem with sciences. I just have an issue with MCAT's science sections which are simply VR disguised as science passages. Yes, communication in English is essential in being a physician (or any profession). But, to have a test which is mostly VR even in the science sections is a bit biased, in my opinion. I have no problem with communicating with patients. I have been working in the healthcare profession for the past 10+ years.

to say that the science sections are like VR is total exaggeration. U have to be able to take information from the passage and apply it using background knowledge to find the correct answer. Many times, the right answer can be found without the passage and just by eliminating obvious incorrect answers, such as extremes. about 75% of PS can be treated like discretes, so there's no room to complain on that. As for BS, review an old practice exam and ull see that u dont even have to comprehend the entire passage, u can literally search it for the correct answer. That's what I do and I score 11-14 on BS every time. Verbal DOES require overall comprehension of the passage, but if you can get through a dense book and understand what happened in it, then verbal shouldn't be a problem. PUT IN SOME WORK. GET IT DONE. its not meant to be easy otherwise everyone would be a doctor.

and thanks about sig. lol. i saw that smiley and i was like wtf? and just had to put that.

 

[vicinihil]

You obviously MISUNDERSTOOD the point of the test

MCAT is a thinking test. It tests how you think. If you can't think in English...leave...I'm a foreigner too and personally, VR sucks, but it's necessary. Are you going to read all your medical text, charts, and speak with patients in a different language? If so...you're not in the right country.

Get use to it, stop complaining...there are plenty of others who are willing to study their ass off and do well.

Next thing you know, we'll be hearing about the spector of the oppressed minorities taking the MCATs in a big long manifesto.

 

[DrBowtie]

By the way, I love that "I beat my meat" animation. Funny.
My science prereq grades are mostly A+'s and some A's. I have no problem with sciences. I just have an issue with MCAT's science sections which are simply VR disguised as science passages. Yes, communication in English is essential in being a physician (or any profession). But, to have a test which is mostly VR even in the science sections is a bit biased, in my opinion. I have no problem with communicating with patients. I have been working in the healthcare profession for the past 10+ years.

That's my point. You think the science sections test pure science. If you look above at the AAMC definition of the MCAT, you'll see knowledge of science concepts is last on the list of what it tests.

 

[corbis11]

I vaguely remember someone posting something very similar to this not too long ago....

 

[axp107]

From your post I'm assuming you're Asian.. probably not born in the U.S. If you are born here, your argument is completely baseless.

What you're saying makes absolutely no sense at all.

In fact, most Asians I know actually do better than whites in Verbal. Even ones that just moved here a couple of years ago. I know a Russian kid who moved here in 2000, and started learning English here. He got a 38 on his MCAT with a 12 in VR.

Lets say on average, French people (i'm making this up) do worse than white Americans... so what? There is proof that other races are doing just as well/if not even better than white Americans. So should they make the MCAT VR easier?

If I were in Germany and did worse than other kids, ofcourse I'd understand. I'm in Germany! I mean.. if you feel that the MCAT is so racially biased, why don't you apply to med school in your home country?

In some Asian countries, you've got ONE entrance exam that will determine whether you get into med school or not. 100,000 people take it. 100 people get in, in each state. It's all science.. ALL memorization and science. Hey, if you wanna try to get into med school there, by all means, go ahead. We have it a lot easier here in the U.S compared to other countries. 50% of applicants here get into med school. Thats A LOT! Making the MCAT totally science based would mean REALLY harsh curves.. in the end 50% of the people would still get in. Except, we'd have more people complaining that they missed getting into med school by one point b/c they hadn't memorized the chemical structure of every chemical in the digestive system.

 

[ocwaveoc]

You obviously MISUNDERSTOOD the point of the test

MCAT is a thinking test. It tests how you think. If you can't think in English...leave...I'm a foreigner too and personally, VR sucks, but it's necessary. Are you going to read all your medical text, charts, and speak with patients in a different language? If so...you're not in the right country.

Get use to it, stop complaining...there are plenty of others who are willing to study their ass off and do well.

Next thing you know, we'll be hearing about the spector of the oppressed minorities taking the MCATs in a big long manifesto.

Well, you obviously misunderstood the point of my post. Perhaps I didn't make it clear. I do understand the purpose of the test and what it attempts to test. My point is to question the validity of that reasoning for designing the test in the manner which it is in. We all accept what the MCAT tests, reading skills and critical thinking. But, the emphasis of that critical thinking lies more with VR type of skills rather than science type of critical thinking skills. THAT is my issue with MCAT. We all have to accept the way the MCAT is because we don't have a choice. But, if everyone simply accepted the way things are done in our society without questioning how things are done or the authority, how would changes ever be made? Again, I'm questioning and disapproving the reason why the test is VR heavy even in the science sections and not what AAMC says the MCAT tests.

 

[PseudomonasPAO1]

I'm going to leave the affirmative action argument for another day..With regards to the VR emphasis on the MCAT, I kind of agree. As someone who has excelled in the sciences, I too have a hard time with VR (and VR-like science passages). But we must accept that the MCAT is not testing for scientific ability. Just as we must accept that medical schools are not training/producing scientists (for the most part). They are two different breeds, with some overlap. Med schools even proclaim that "they will teach you all the science you need," thus why they have no bias towards non-science majors.

If you want a test that demonstrates raw scientific ability, perhaps a GRE subject test will suffice. Otherwise, you gotta bite the VR bullet. The good thing is you can get by with a 7/8 in VR if you're sciences are strong (11+).

Good luck!

 

[spicedmanna]

Well, you obviously misunderstood the point of my post. Perhaps I didn't make it clear. I do understand the purpose of the test and what it attempts to test. My point is to question the validity of that reasoning for designing the test in the manner which it is in. We all accept what the MCAT tests, reading skills and critical thinking. But, the emphasis of that critical thinking lies more with VR type of skills rather than science type of critical thinking skills. THAT is my issue with MCAT. We all have to accept the way the MCAT is because we don't have a choice. But, if everyone simply accepted the way things are done in our society without questioning how things are done or the authority, how would changes ever be made? Again, I'm questioning and disapproving the reason why the test is VR heavy even in the science sections and not what AAMC says the MCAT tests.

I challange your premise that the MCAT is somehow ethnically-biased due to it's supposed emphasis on verbal reasoning. I think the MCAT tests precisely what it says it tests for. Did you read what DrBowtie wrote?

I don't see the problem with testing verbal reasoning ability and skills; it so happens that this test is in English because it is designed for use in areas where English is the standard language. I think it is perfectly fair for the MCAT to test what it is testing, and I think it is testing a skill that is arguably important for sucess in medical schools and as a physician.

 

[sexyman]

Waaaaaa

 

[BrokenGlass]

MCAT is absolutely biased against racial minorities due to its heavy emphasis on verbal skills. In America, racial minorities' push for their agenda is done rather openly. The issues of affirmative action is a product of the racial minorities' interest. It is out in the open, discussed, refuted etc..... However, the agenda of the racial majority isn't something discussed openly or pushed forth openly. MCAT's heavy emphasis on verbal skills even in the science section is an example. Hiring practices of top executive positions in fortune 500 companies is another example which leaves behind qualified minority candidates in favor of a white candidate. Perhaps it's the "old boys club" mentality. But, such practices are very real, exists and affects even us, the premed students. Affirmative action is sort of a reverse discrimination against the racial majority. I wholeheartedly oppose it. I don't think racial minority with 0.2 lower in GPA and 5 points lower in MCAT score should get into a med school over a caucasian or Asian candidate with better numbers with other factors being similar such as EC, LOR etc..

How would you feel if you were applying to get into an engineering school in Germany after having lived in that country for say 10 years and they tested you on German VR, WS in German, Math and physical sciences which has as much to do with reading comprehension as understanding math and the physical sciences. Wouldn't you think "am I applying to become an engineer or a German linguistics teacher with minor in science?". It is absolutely essential to be fluent in the use of the English language in most professional jobs in the US. However, to design a test to mainly test for the skills in English rather than science concepts related to the profession is rather unfair to those whom English isn't their first language. A hidden agenda perhaps, the MCAT is to perpetuate the "old boys club" the best they can without making it so obvious.

So, as a powerless premed, I will have to play the game. I will work hard to do better in VR and deal with the purely English based types (rather than science concept based ) of questions in the science passages. I just have to work a little harder to get to achieve what I want to achieve. It seems most who'll criticize this post never stopped to think whether the MCAT really makes sense in the method they use to test the topics AND the heavy bias towards pure English skills rather than bias towards science concepts relevant to being a physician. Perhaps it's easier to not question the validity of the MCAT and label me as a complainer. Some call the MCAT a critical thinking test, I call it an English test with some science context .

While we are making farm animal references, I would like to point out that a lion is not so tough when attacked by a gang of eagles.

 

[RoadRunner17]

They should publish the original post as a passage on the next verbal reasoning section. That'd be a hoot. Imagine the questions they'd come up with for us to answer.

 

[scotties123]

They should publish the original post as a passage on the next verbal reasoning section. That'd be a hoot. Imagine the questions they'd come up with for us to answer.

Which of the following does not represent the Author's main point?
A) MCAT sucks
B) MCAT is unfair
C) MCAT should die and rot in hell because I have to know english for it
D) The MCAT reminds me of pretty flowers and bunnies on a warm summer day

 

[BrokenGlass]

Which of the following does not represent the Author's main point?
A) MCAT sucks
B) MCAT is unfair
C) MCAT should die and rot in hell because I have to know english for it
D) The MCAT reminds me of pretty flowers and bunnies on a warm summer day

MCAT sucks! That's not even debatable!

 

[scotties123]

MCAT sucks! That's not even debatable!

Aha! u fell for the mcat trap. It says does NOT represent the Author's main point. The obvious answer is that there is no answer. Its a trick question. and thats y u cannot beat the mcat. no answer is the correct answer.

 

[Nikki2002]

i only wish i could have gotten the same score in BS and PS as I did in verbal.

 

[meddoc1]

I agree with the original post in some ways.
1. It is disadvantage for the non native speakers
Ans: yes, but there is nothing you can do because that is the language they use in this country. As a non native speaker, you should have considered all this before even coming to this country. I am a non native speaker too. In my case, I have only been here for 3 and half years and I am struggling with all the other non native speakers too. If that’s what it takes to be a doctor, we will just have to suck it up. (A little bit of complaining is understandable, hahahaha)
2. In the Science sections, they test us on our VR skill too.
Ans: Yes they do, but in my opinion, they are not doing it on purpose. I have taken different version of the exams. Sometime it is more calculation intensive than reading and comprehension intensive. I think the MCAT writers are just trying to make things unpredictable for everyone. Not to purposefully screen out the non native speakers.

I think there are a lot of ways to complain about the MCAT if you wanted to. I once hear one of my gf complains that MCAT is discriminating against female student because there were more physics than chemistry in the physical section (because according to statistic, more males are physics or engineering major). My point is, there are million ways to complain about this exam and nobody (especially those who don't do well in it, including me) will ever say it is a fair exam. That is why the admission people will not only look at the MCAT score but the whole package. Including you being a non native speaker.
Anyway, I think your English is much better than a lot of non native speakers. For one thing, you can write better than me so don't feel bad. Hahaha.

 

[BrokenGlass]

I agree with the original post in some ways.
1. It is disadvantage for the non native speakers
Ans: yes, but there is nothing you can do because that is the language they use in this country. As a non native speaker, you should have considered all this before even coming to this country. I am a non native speaker too. In my case, I have only been here for 3 and half years and I am struggling with all the other non native speakers too. If that’s what it takes to be a doctor, we will just have to suck it up. (A little bit of complaining is understandable, hahahaha)
2. In the Science sections, they test us on our VR skill too.
Ans: Yes they do, but in my opinion, they are not doing it on purpose. I have taken different version of the exams. Sometime it is more calculation intensive than reading and comprehension intensive. I think the MCAT writers are just trying to make things unpredictable for everyone. Not to purposefully screen out the non native speakers.

I think there are a lot of ways to complain about the MCAT if you wanted to. I once hear one of my gf complains that MCAT is discriminating against female student because there were more physics than chemistry in the physical section (because according to statistic, more males are physics or engineering major). My point is, there are million ways to complain about this exam and nobody (especially those who don't do well in it, including me) will ever say it is a fair exam. That is why the admission people will not only look at the MCAT score but the whole package. Including you being a non native speaker.
Anyway, I think your English is much better than a lot of non native speakers. For one thing, you can write better than me so don't feel bad. Hahaha.

One of your gfs? Just how many girlfriends do you have?

 

[barto123]

sure, no one is denying that the MCAT heavily tests verbal reasoning, but there is a good reason for it. The AAMC or the AMA or whoever makes these types of decisions in medicine do it because they want to give an advantage to AMERICANS. There are millions of smart people around the world. if the MCAT was not heavily based on english verbal reasoning all american medical schools would be filled with koreans and chinese, this is not to meant to be offensive, it's obvious, just look at the percentages of asians in top schools. Just like any other country, we support our own homegrown talent, kinda analogous to how state schools like to take in-state students.

that's also why there is all this support for getting young Americans interested in grad school/science research (anyone do a SURP/SURF program???). i was told that now, in science grad schools programs, the majority of the students are now foreigners, mainly chinese and indian. i'm just trying to explain how these things work, i harbor no angry/jealous sentiment towards asians or any other foreigners, my father happens to be from korea.

although it may put some american minorities/immigrants at a disadvantage if english is not their first language, like someone else mentioned, that's life. throughout the short history of this country, being an immigrant always had its challanges, today is no different. non-native english speakers are just gonna have to work extra hard, life's not always fair.

 

[BrokenGlass]

sure, no one is denying that the MCAT heavily tests verbal reasoning, but there is a good reason for it. The AAMC or the AMA or whoever makes these types of decisions in medicine do it because they want to give an advantage to AMERICANS. There are millions of smart people around the world. if the MCAT was not heavily based on english verbal reasoning all american medical schools would be filled with koreans and chinese, this is not to meant to be offensive, it's obvious, just look at the percentages of asians in top schools. Just like any other country, we support our own homegrown talent, kinda analogous to how state schools like to take in-state students.

that's also why there is all this support for getting young Americans interested in grad school/science research (anyone do a SURP/SURF program???). i was told that now, in science grad schools programs, the majority of the students are now foreigners, mainly chinese and indian. i'm just trying to explain how these things work, i harbor no angry/jealous sentiment towards asians or any other foreigners, my father happens to be from korea.

although it may put some american minorities/immigrants at a disadvantage if english is not their first language, like someone else mentioned, that's life. throughout the short history of this country, being an immigrant always had its challanges, today is no different. non-native english speakers are just gonna have to work extra hard, life's not always fair.

Excellent comments. Except I don't think talent is something that can be grown. It's not lettuce. You either have it or you don't.

 

[ocwaveoc]

Except I don't think talent is something that can be grown. It's not lettuce. You either have it or you don't.

Your comments are always kind of funny.
I would like to state a few things....
1) Yes, I do realize that life isn't fair. Hence, in the end I have to accept it just try to do my best on the MCAT.
2) Does that mean I think it's justifiable? No. If the MCAT was primarily science based, people would find justifiable reason why it is so the way many of you have defended the VR bias of the exam. If the MCAT had a portion which tested your interpersonal communication skills, many of you'd also find ways to defend it. No matter how the test is designed, we can always find angles to defend the rational behind such design. However, some rationals for certain design is likely more appropriate than others, and I'm sure most of you'd agree. I mean, if MCAT tested whether we can change a tire or not, I'm sure you'd think that's ludicrous. So, there is some sort of a continuum from inappropriate test design to more appropriate. In my opinion, the way the test is designed to test VR even in the science sections of the exam lies more towards the inappropriate part of the continuum. That's all.
3) I still do believe that it's very ethnically biased against racial minorities. YES there are minorities that have high VR scores. But, you have to admit that in general, racial minorities tend to have more first generation immigrants in their population. Therefore will have lower skills that are tested in VR type of passages.
4) It hasn't been that long since blacks and women were allowed to vote. Some of your grandparents were the very people who voted against blacks voting, against them riding in the same bus and put Japanese-Americans in camps during WWII. However, times are a bit different now. So, such action can't be taken as openly as they used to be. So, nowadays, I truly think racial prejudices are manifested in ways that more than meets the eye. In my opinion, MCAT may be one of them.

 

[artaxerxes]

The MCAT is biased against non-english speakers, yes
but America is biased against non-english speakers in general....

being a non-native speaker, I plan to stick it to the white man by doing better on the VR than he does, AZN PRIDE FOOOO!

 

[ocwaveoc]

The MCAT is biased against non-english speakers, yes
but America is biased against non-english speakers in general....

being a non-native speaker, I plan to stick it to the white man by doing better on the VR than he does, AZN PRIDE FOOOO!

Who ever said ANYTHING about a non english speaker? You must have a serious reading comprehension problem.

 

[marctam86]

i dont like threads with big paragraphs in them. 👎

 

[budhak0n]

u wrote too much so i stopped after the first paragraph. first of all, life isnt fair, get used to it. its ridiculous how many people get accepted into law school, pharm school, dental school, and yes, even med school because of parents' connections and flat out bribery. But guess what. THIS IS LIFE. Second of all, I am a racial minority and I do NOT feel disadvantaged at all. If you feel disadvantaged because of the verbal section and an inability to comprehend it, then guess what.....HOW DO U PLAN ON DOING IN MED SCHOOL? Also, you have to be able to speak to your patients and not rely solely on playing charades, so I suggest brushing up on english comprehension if that's a problem for u. And it's clear that you dont have a problem understanding english, based on your post, so why r u even complaining?
geez, im so sick of people complaining that life isnt fair. ur not going to be handed things in life, fight for what u want and get it.

First off .. Great attitude and one that will take you far. Secondly, it's time that "racial" minorities learn to laugh at themselves just as much as any Mobster or Irish Whiskey tank or Polish inventor....

Third, and MOST IMPORTANT, admittance to a "school" is just that... nothing else... If you're pissed because you can't get into a specific school and you think that somebody else did on the basis of their race or the size of their ears... well then that problem is soley on you my friend.

It's what these "applicants" will do not IN THE SCHOOL but when they get out of school that will make all the difference. Somebody getting in because their dad made a donation won't help them reconstruct an ACL, or diagnose an arrythmia in an 8 year old who was brought in because he or she has a chest cough and cold.

So let's just not worry so much about stuff that in the grand scheme of things means very little. Also remember that a M.D. or a D.O. on your wall is no guarantee of any type of "status, or financial success". People who are going into this thinking it's a ticket to the high life might just be unpleasantly surprised. It's not what it's about <g>

 

[RoadRunner17]

Your comments are always kind of funny.
I would like to state a few things....
1) Yes, I do realize that life isn't fair. Hence, in the end I have to accept it just try to do my best on the MCAT.
2) Does that mean I think it's justifiable? No. If the MCAT was primarily science based, people would find justifiable reason why it is so the way many of you have defended the VR bias of the exam. If the MCAT had a portion which tested your interpersonal communication skills, many of you'd also find ways to defend it. No matter how the test is designed, we can always find angles to defend the rational behind such design. However, some rationals for certain design is likely more appropriate than others, and I'm sure most of you'd agree. I mean, if MCAT tested whether we can change a tire or not, I'm sure you'd think that's ludicrous. So, there is some sort of a continuum from inappropriate test design to more appropriate. In my opinion, the way the test is designed to test VR even in the science sections of the exam lies more towards the inappropriate part of the continuum. That's all.
3) I still do believe that it's very ethnically biased against racial minorities. YES there are minorities that have high VR scores. But, you have to admit that in general, racial minorities tend to have more first generation immigrants in their population. Therefore will have lower skills that are tested in VR type of passages.
4) It hasn't been that long since blacks and women were allowed to vote. Some of your grandparents were the very people who voted against blacks voting, against them riding in the same bus and put Japanese-Americans in camps during WWII. However, times are a bit different now. So, such action can't be taken as openly as they used to be. So, nowadays, I truly think racial prejudices are manifested in ways that more than meets the eye. In my opinion, MCAT may be one of them.

I'm really trying to see the point in your posts in this thread. Is there one? So far, what I see from a quick review of your posts are:

1) "MCAT isn't fair, but life isn't fair so I'll do my best to deal with it"
2) "But the MCAT still isn't fair, and is written in a way that discriminates against some portion of the population, today it's the ethnic minorities"
3) "Racism is alive and well, it's just not obvious" (Note: I agree with this part though, but not because of your well-thought out reasoning)
4) "What I think is reasonable for the MCAT is the only reasonable viewpoint, you guys would find a way to defend it the way it is now and would do the same if the MCAT was written differently"
5) "If you don't understand my convoluted viewpoint or try to refute whatever it is that you think I'm trying to say, I accuse you of poor reading comprehension or of defending the status quo. I choose to ignore/belittle your opinion using anecdotal 'evidence' pertaining to the Civil Rights Movement and generalizations of first-generation immigrants (which are right and wrong but can't be used to support your argument)"
6) "In the end, I have no idea what the MCAT is supposed to test, but it tests the wrong stuff in my opinion so it's unfair. But I'll deal with it."

So... what's your point really? Why are you wasting our time? Maybe you have some sort of semi-valid point, which I see as being about what the MCAT SHOULD be, but you're doing a pretty rough job of getting it across in a concise manner.